Cheggf Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said: I'm really not a fan of a solution being "don't be around it" when it comes to world hazards. It just makes it way too obvious that we as the player are loading in the area around us, and it's not even consistent between mechanics. Meteors will break things even when offscreen, but earthquakes apparently only drop things specifically on you. Technically it's consistent because global events always only happen on the player. Meteors aren't global so they play by their own rules. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nick- Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Popian said: Going by this the original rift boulders were okay. Original rift boulders were NOT okay. 1. Happens way too frequently 2. Gives zero reaction time for the player 3. Leaves rubble and trash to clean up, effecting builds Yes lightning can be similiar, but the difference is the requency and the way it is delt with. Lightning rods cover a huge radius and are fairly cheap. They dont effect the builds asthetic negatively, they can even improve it with how many skins we have for it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nick- Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 This is why i love the pillar idea so much. Buildable pillars that prevented boulders from callapsing in a radius. There could even be different versions of pillars + skins to make decorating with them lots of fun. When im thinking of pillars, im not thinking of the massive huge ones found in the caves, im thinking of smaller skinnier ones made by the player. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
00petar00 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I will go out on a limb here and say that base destruction isn't fun or interesting to anyone. The players that don't mind or even support it really don't care that much for their base or it is small enough to be repairable easily. Chores aren't something I enjoy doing just to avoid threats to base or survival, hounds and worm attacks just don't let me go afk often and serve no other purpose as they are easily taken care of. There's Antlion and Deerclops that I kill every year and lastly, lightning rods. I don't know what to say about wildfires, they are completely avoided (caves,oasis) by most of the playerbase or turned off. The more chores we have in the game, the less enjoyable it will be and it will feel like a second job and if it ever reaches that point which I don't think it will, I will quit playing. Uncompromising survival is something 99.9% of the players don't want, not being able to eat healing food after your hunger bar is full won't bring anything interesting to the game, it will just annoy players. There is a thread currently active about how many hours you have played DST and that should show you that most of the people on the forums are very experienced, so no matter how many of them want uncompromising survival, for the game to thrive there needs to be a focus on new players and this game is really difficult to them but still a lot of the players on the forums don't even want that. I would never even cross 200 hours playtime if DST had taken the route of content updates like rifts and we had more content like that when I started, deadly brightshades are even worse than hounds because of how many spawn. The world I have with lunar rifts on, there is so many of them on the surface that I don't even bother killing them as it isn't worth it. This is a vocal minority that wants the game to have more chores while most of them will not play beyond killing bosses and won't attempt to megabase, you won't see these uncompromising survival players on day 2000+ worlds. So while I am not saying that anyone needs to play on a world for that long, why do players that want to do that need to be discouraged with base destruction mechanics? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 7 hours ago, 00petar00 said: I will go out on a limb here and say that base destruction isn't fun or interesting to anyone. The players that don't mind or even support it really don't care that much for their base or it is small enough to be repairable easily. This is just plain personal bias I get it you play more for the base building experience but that doesn't give anyone the right to dismiss people who play for the survival aspect nor does it somehow mean they don't care about their base. Part of survival is your ability is your ability to protect your base and making it so everywhere we build is magically immune to the world means that survival is illusionary because it means survival stops when we start building. 7 hours ago, 00petar00 said: There is a thread currently active about how many hours you have played DST and that should show you that most of the people on the forums are very experienced, so no matter how many of them want uncompromising survival, for the game to thrive there needs to be a focus on new players and this game is really difficult to them but still a lot of the players on the forums don't even want that. This is subjective survival doesn't need to be uncompromising but plenty of new players get bored of doing things specifically because the game doesn't engage them much after you get your initial setup often asking "well what do we do now?" That doesn't mean the game needs to hammer them over the head with difficulty but these "chores" as you call them are what games tend to use to get them to engage with the world. 8 hours ago, 00petar00 said: not being able to eat healing food after your hunger bar is full won't bring anything interesting to the game, it will just annoy players. I agree here nothing meaningful in this. 8 hours ago, 00petar00 said: Uncompromising survival is something 99.9% of the players don't want, While I don't agree that survival challenges = blistering diffculty you have to realize how false this statement is... 8 hours ago, 00petar00 said: The more chores we have in the game, the less enjoyable it will be and it will feel like a second job and if it ever reaches that point which I don't think it will, I will quit playing. I know this is a taboo topic to bring up but since your not interested in the prospect of new survival content why not just turn it off? I mean assuming kiel is planning to make good on the promise of end game survival content at some point endgame content is going to add a new necessary maintenance to survival. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 hours ago, 00petar00 said: Uncompromising survival is something 99.9% of the players don't want, As a person really interested in the stats on these sorts of things, I'm really curious about how you're able to not only contact the ~50,000 normal players and get a response, let alone an honest one! The crossing of so many barriers to communication in itself is astounding; people would pay a lot of money for whatever arcane technology you're using to accomplish this feat! Game developers would only be the first of a torrent of corporate demand! Also, uh, no. We've been down this road before. Thanks. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_zwb Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 46 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: why not just turn it off? "This truly is the You Can Turn It Off arc" -- a forums user(I can't remember who) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
00petar00 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: This is subjective survival doesn't need to be uncompromising but plenty of new players get bored of doing things specifically because the game doesn't engage them much after you get your initial setup often asking "well what do we do now?" That doesn't mean the game needs to hammer them over the head with difficulty but these "chores" as you call them are what games tend to use to get them to engage with the world. I should've been more specific, most of the players that are for these changes are often on the extreme side and want your base to be unprotected or as you suggested more chores as I remember you specifically said that if pillar or some structure is added to the game to protect from earthquakes, you wanted for there to be maintenance. I don't want to run around repairing a lot of pillars or fueling countless flingomatics that also impact the aesthetic of the base, these are chores and something most players don't enjoy because these are completely mindless tasks that waste your time. 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: While I don't agree that survival challenges = blistering diffculty you have to realize how false this statement is... There is only so many survival mechanics like acid rain that you can put on players that impact them at the same time without overwhelming or wasting their time because of the preparation needed and limited inventory slots. 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: I know this is a taboo topic to bring up but since your not interested in the prospect of new survival content why not just turn it off? I mean assuming kiel is planning to make good on the promise of end game survival content at some point endgame content is going to add a new necessary maintenance to survival. In that case, I'd be completely limited to my own servers. While I can discuss with players I meet or community servers on changes they can apply to their servers, everyone has different thresholds on what they find acceptable, that's why default settings exist. 1 hour ago, maradyne said: As a person really interested in the stats on these sorts of things, I'm really curious about how you're able to not only contact the ~50,000 normal players and get a response, let alone an honest one! The crossing of so many barriers to communication in itself is astounding; people would pay a lot of money for whatever arcane technology you're using to accomplish this feat! Game developers would only be the first of a torrent of corporate demand! Obviously I don't have the exact number but you don't have to be a genius to look at the server list in game and see how so many servers are completely empty as soon as winter starts. Some things are just obvious enough that you can reasonably come to a conclusion because of other statistics, like the fact that the majority of gamers only have one hour and a few minutes of game time a day and that most players can't kill a raid boss alone. Do you think these players want more survival mechanics or any type of increase in difficulty? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I want things “FAIR” things that are going to challenge my survival skills. Can we all just forget about the damn Uncompromising Mode Mod?? Like seriously, How many people do you know of that ACTUALLY play games on the hardest most punishing difficulty imaginable? … my point exactly. That said: DST is a Survival Game, or at least it used to be.. that’s what I fell in love with the Franchise for- When Wendy would send Abigail out to attack a narrowly choked off bridge patrolled by Pig Guards, only for Abby to die dead center of that Cluster of Pigs & for me to have to then retreat, build some armor and find a way to get into that heavily guarded area to retrieve Abigail’s flower or else play the game without one until I can craft another THAT = Challenge. That forced me to think up some clever strategy to recover my characters Ability perk- and that’s something the franchise lost when they reworked Wendy in DST, now Abby is just an infinite summon. I mean I understand that the change may have been necessary so other players didn’t just Hi-Jack Wendys one and only perk out from under her in Multiplayer, but still it brings up an excellent unavoidable point. ”Survival” based Challenges in DST are being slowly but surely, phased out- Where once we had narrow Chokepoints full of mobs we had to fight off, now we can just build a grass raft or dock and build a bridge across land ignoring any “chokepoint” Where overheating & Wildfires were once a thing: Water Logged made them a ignorable Non-Threat. And NOW we have game content that is INTENTIONALLY ignoring your base structures. Here Klei.. this Forum Emote sums up my feelings- Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nick- Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: Can we all just forget about the damn Uncompromising Mode Mod?? We are not talking about that mod though. We are talking about what the game is advertised as and designed around. It says it right on the menu screen when you boot up the game. Uncompromising Mode Mod is for those who would like a bigger challenge. For who want a more difficult game that isnt just switching around world settings. It's a hardcore difficulty mod. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhackE Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 9 hours ago, 00petar00 said: Uncompromising survival is something 99.9% of the players don't want I think Don't starve isn't for you then, maybe try Minecraft, I think that's a little more up your alley Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, 00petar00 said: Obviously I don't have the exact number but you don't have to be a genius to look at the server list in game and see how so many servers are completely empty as soon as winter starts. Some things are just obvious enough that you can reasonably come to a conclusion because of other statistics, like the fact that the majority of gamers only have one hour and a few minutes of game time a day and that most players can't kill a raid boss alone. Do you think these players want more survival mechanics or any type of increase in difficulty? That's a large leap in logic however even more so when you consider a large amount of people on those public servers get bored because there isn't anything to do and you can say well that's because they don't know they can seek out content but even that highlights a big flaw why aren't we as players encouraged to seek out new content and challenges. And this isn't a slight against megabases but the original purpose of bases is to assist in survival if the game makes the average player feel like survival is done then it's failing at being engaging going out to fight a boss on the other side of the world isn't actually survival it's just a challenge. I don't personally think that the current mechanics we had introduced were 100% needed but I do feel we need new survival mechanics. Just as too many forced mechanics can overwhelm the player too many optional ones can lower the player's sense of engagement and that's what I feel like those servers represent by winter a player usually finishes up there base and after that it's just optional challenges. 17 minutes ago, 00petar00 said: I should've been more specific, most of the players that are for these changes are often on the extreme side and want your base to be unprotected or as you suggested more chores as I remember you specifically said that if pillar or some structure is added to the game to protect from earthquakes, you wanted for there to be maintenance. I don't want to run around repairing a lot of pillars or fueling countless flingomatics that also impact the aesthetic of the base, these are chores and something most players don't enjoy because these are completely mindless tasks that waste your time. And as I stated it doesn't have to require a high level of maintenance but it should require maintenance because it improves engagement with the mechanic also the arguement it's a mindless task can be applied to the entire game. For example collecting wood, rocks, food, and various other materials are mindless tasks but if you remove all those processes what your left with is a boring creative mode where you have everything you need there's a reason people don't play long term in god mode with free crafting working to survive is a large part of the game's fun and something most players enjoy to a extent we just don't think about it. 24 minutes ago, 00petar00 said: In that case, I'd be completely limited to my own servers. While I can discuss with players I meet or community servers on changes they can apply to their servers, everyone has different thresholds on what they find acceptable, that's why default settings exist. And I fully understand that but the problem is we as a community can't really meet a middle ground without one side losing out so not doing becomes equivalent to the game is not allowed to be x or y. In this case it's not allowed to evolve as a survival game that engages survival players. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, WhackE said: I think Don't starve isn't for you then, maybe try Minecraft, I think that's a little more up your alley Bit rude eh? One of the big selling points of DST over other survival sandbox games is that it has a great balance between the survival and sandbox areas. Preferring either playstyle doesn't disqualify you from playing DST. The game is for everyone. I think sometimes people read into the "uncompromising" tag line a bit too deep. Uncompromising doesn't mean difficult, it just means it doesn't change for you. This is pretty ironic considering we have the levers to change the world however we want lol but truly I feel it never meant "uber hard and difficult game that punishes you every chance it gets" but more like "this is a world that exists, and you need to find your own way. It will not hold your hand or highlight answers to every problem all the time." Spoiler un·com·pro·mis·ing adjective showing an unwillingness to make concessions to others, especially by changing one's ways or opinions. tbh I really hate the hand holding and forced tutorials that some games give. I recently started MH:World and it felt horrible how it drove you to hunt specific monsters and use specific things as you fought them, it felt so UNlike every other MH game that just let you run out and hunt monsters. These things irritate me, and its such a relief that in DST I can just join and play, even from day 1 when I knew nothing I could just play and enjoy. I actually survived my first winter before I even knew there was a weapons or armor crafting lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Shosuko said: Bit rude eh? One of the big selling points of DST over other survival sandbox games is that it has a great balance between the survival and sandbox areas. Preferring either playstyle doesn't disqualify you from playing DST. The game is for everyone. I think sometimes people read into the "uncompromising" tag line a bit too deep. Uncompromising doesn't mean difficult, it just means it doesn't change for you. This is pretty ironic considering we have the levers to change the world however we want lol but truly I feel it never meant "uber hard and difficult game that punishes you every chance it gets" but more like "this is a world that exists, and you need to find your own way. It will not hold your hand or highlight answers to every problem all the time." Reveal hidden contents un·com·pro·mis·ing adjective showing an unwillingness to make concessions to others, especially by changing one's ways or opinions. tbh I really hate the hand holding and forced tutorials that some games give. I recently started MH:World and it felt horrible how it drove you to hunt specific monsters and use specific things as you fought them, it felt so UNlike every other MH game that just let you run out and hunt monsters. These things irritate me, and its such a relief that in DST I can just join and play, even from day 1 when I knew nothing I could just play and enjoy. I actually survived my first winter before I even knew there was a weapons or armor crafting lol I mean to be fair- If DST is sold on Xbox Live under game category of Survival Rogue-Like, then by all means it should strive to be atleast HALF the category it’s thrown into, right? Minecraft is a bit of a misleading choice to choose to tell someone to go play though, because believe it or not there are actually settings in Minecraft where not eating leads to starvation, running drains hunger, and Dying means all loot you dropped gets erased from the world. Its a really really bad choice to tell someone to go play TBH, Minecraft isn’t the best selling game in the entire world for no reason… it’s BECAUSE of that flexibility that it’s the best selling game of all time. Something that DST could actually do a Million times better IF KLEI would put in the actual Extra Effort to get the game to that point.. With Minecraft when they add a new Biome or Mob to the game it’s just.. there and your stuck with it, you either learn to like it or you stop playing Minecraft (or play creative mode) But with DS/DST we have a gloriously wonderful screen full of toggles to turn certain parts of the game on/off/more/less. I am not ashamed at all to admit I tune SeaStacks to Near Non-Existent, but that’s just an example of something you CAN do in DST but Can’t Do in Minecraft. I was reading a thread earlier where someone complained about the Ink Blights being able to damage their base structures and this person actually wanted them to NOT damage structures, despite the fact ANYONE can spawn a Phase 2 set of Twins of Terror Randomly into your base which will most defiantly destroy your base in quick fashion with its dashes. That right there is a PRIME example of why Klei needs to take a deep dive into world Gen settings/presets so players can alter how the game, its mobs, and certain mechanics will behave- Example: Ink Blights are Destructive? Yes/No/Random. Klei just made everyone on the entire forums happy with just a little bit of extra love and care. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, Shosuko said: tbh I really hate the hand holding and forced tutorials that some games give. I recently started MH:World and it felt horrible how it drove you to hunt specific monsters and use specific things as you fought them, it felt so UNlike every other MH game that just let you run out and hunt monsters. These things irritate me, and its such a relief that in DST I can just join and play, even from day 1 when I knew nothing I could just play and enjoy. I actually survived my first winter before I even knew there was a weapons or armor crafting lol Not asking for the game to hand hold but it often feels like survival is a after thought in dst with most things beyond the intial content being disconected. Find your own fun sounds fun in concept but when everything is optional it can sometimes feel hard to feel motivated to do things beyond what's important or profitable. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1641999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Not asking for the game to hand hold but it often feels like survival is a after thought in dst with most things beyond the intial content being disconected. Find your own fun sounds fun in concept but when everything is optional it can sometimes feel hard to feel motivated to do things beyond what's important or profitable. A lot of things were always optional though. Even in original DS you could cultivate a pretty peaceful survival, the only big thing to worry about was hound attacks. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Shosuko said: A lot of things were always optional though. Even in original DS you could cultivate a pretty peaceful survival, the only big thing to worry about was hound attacks. Yes but then many non optional things were added that arguably improved the game and increased player engagement like seasons and seasonal bossses. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Yes but then many non optional things were added that arguably improved the game and increased player engagement like seasons and seasonal bossses. Weren't seasonal bosses always optional though? You just lure them away and ditch them lol Plus we had OP things like the old bell, 1 shot almost any boss. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BezKa Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 11 hours ago, 00petar00 said: for the game to thrive there needs to be a focus on new players I'm sorry but why? Is this some sort of endless growth thing? There's only so many people with computers and money. They're already getting money from skins, and most people don't buy skins for the game they don't play. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, Shosuko said: Weren't seasonal bosses always optional though? You just lure them away and ditch them lol Plus we had OP things like the old bell, 1 shot almost any boss. Luring them away is a legitmate survival tactic it's a option not optional you don't prevent it from happening your actively avoiding them. Also I don't think old bell was a good mechanic. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, BezKa said: I'm sorry but why? Is this some sort of endless growth thing? There's only so many people with computers and money. They're already getting money from skins, and most people don't buy skins for the game they don't play. DST isn’t just a computer game, in fact it recently just released on Nintendo Switch. Its not greatly optimized for consoles, and many functions that work well on PC may not even work at all on console.. but for the most part the game is being introduced to a brand new audience of players. Hence: Why we now have NEW things like the Compendium to give new players all the LORE they haven’t been keeping up with, the Cookbook to help them learn food ingredients, The Loading Screen Tips that are Direct handholding 101, the Plant Registry to learn corps/fertilizers, the Training Dummy structures to preview how much damage hitting it with something will do (without needing to look it up on Wikipedia) And we also now have the Scrapbook which details how much health mobs have, how much damage they deal, and what resources they drop. You are being completely blind if you don’t think all this wasn’t added to help ease new players into the game. And that’s not even touching on other things like the addition of free starting seasonal resources when joining worlds already 10 days into a season, or the “Relaxed Mode” toggles that let you disable the ability to starve to death, die of freeze/overheat/darkness. For better or for worse like it or not DS/DST is changing to ease in New Players & has been doing this for awhile now. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Luring them away is a legitmate survival tactic it's a option not optional you don't prevent it from happening your actively avoiding them. Also I don't think old bell was a good mechanic. Yeah but walking away from them still makes them optional. You never had to fight anything in DS from the very beginning really. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theukon-dos Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said: DST isn’t just a computer game, in fact it recently just released on Nintendo Switch. Its not greatly optimized for consoles, and many functions that work well on PC may not even work at all on console.. but for the most part the game is being introduced to a brand new audience of players. Hence: Why we now have NEW things like the Compendium to give new players all the LORE they haven’t been keeping up with, the Cookbook to help them learn food ingredients, The Loading Screen Tips that are Direct handholding 101, the Plant Registry to learn corps/fertilizers, the Training Dummy structures to preview how much damage hitting it with something will do (without needing to look it up on Wikipedia) And we also now have the Scrapbook which details how much health mobs have, how much damage they deal, and what resources they drop. You are being completely blind if you don’t think all this wasn’t added to help ease new players into the game. And that’s not even touching on other things like the addition of free starting seasonal resources when joining worlds already 10 days into a season, or the “Relaxed Mode” toggles that let you disable the ability to starve to death, die of freeze/overheat/darkness. For better or for worse like it or not DS/DST is changing to ease in New Players & has been doing this for awhile now. Here's a question, what about being "uncompromising" would make onboarding new players hard to begin with? There are tons of games that get an audience by advertising themselves as hard. Dark Souls has been doing it for a decade for peat's sake. People do, in fact, like hard games. Hell, that's the entire reason I got into DS/T myself. I wanted to burn, I wanted to slam my head against that wall for hundreds of hours, waiting for it to slowly chip away. And quite frankly I'm 101% on board with the idea of making the game easier to onboard. But on the condition of doing so to make room for new challenges. And not just optional, self-contained whathasyous like the rifts and acid rain. I mean real blood and thunder changes on-par with RoG. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked Koopa Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 5 hours ago, BezKa said: I'm sorry but why? Is this some sort of endless growth thing? There's only so many people with computers and money. They're already getting money from skins, and most people don't buy skins for the game they don't play. I don't think DST has really met it's mark with a lot of players, even ones who would likely enjoy it, because a lot of the game is a little front-heavy in terms of learning, with not much positive feedback for doing well. Infinite growth isn't possible, but I also don't think DST has really hit its full potential, so I don't think a desire to cater to new players is misplaced, and id argue the addition of relaxed mode implies Klei shares that sentiment somewhat. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
00petar00 Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 16 hours ago, Mysterious box said: And I fully understand that but the problem is we as a community can't really meet a middle ground without one side losing out so not doing becomes equivalent to the game is not allowed to be x or y. In this case it's not allowed to evolve as a survival game that engages survival players. The issue is that a lot of survival players think that it needs to be the main focus and every other playstyle should suffer because of it. 15 hours ago, BezKa said: I'm sorry but why? Is this some sort of endless growth thing? There's only so many people with computers and money. They're already getting money from skins, and most people don't buy skins for the game they don't play. I don't have statistics for DST but for most games if you can't hook players in the first 2 hours, a large portion of them quit. You need to grow the playerbase to get money, they can't keep all of the current players and why should they be complacent? There are a lot of gamers and DST is not mainstream popular, do you really think that this is the peak of DST when it comes to active players? The more people try out DST and stay after first few hours and over time some of them will become long term players and they will buy skins. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/148438-my-proposition-of-making-the-game-more-difficult-all-the-while-eliminating-most-forms-of-undertelegraphed-world-griefing-comment-on-thread-for-how-you-would-raise-game-difficulty-without-base-destruction/page/2/#findComment-1642113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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