The new werepig boss feels unnecessary and awkward.

[-Nick-]

Klei needs to add more stuff in caves. The ruins itself and archives are fine, just the rest of the caves need content. Its just the same 4-5 biomes repeated with hard to navigate layouts. It doesnt help there is no unique landmarks or structures in the biomes. At the surface, each biome has at least one important resource to further your progress. 

 

The caves don't have that except the ruins/archives. Meaning you can skip everything else and ignore it.

 

 

(There's toadstool i guess but.. not important at all.)

Honestly, i wouldn't mind a whole caves rework, change how the progress in caves works. Make it an interesting experience.

[Vinja]

19 minutes ago, -Nick- said:

Klei needs to add more stuff in caves. The ruins itself and archives are fine, just the rest of the caves need content. Its just the same 4-5 biomes repeated with hard to navigate layouts. It doesnt help there is no unique landmarks or structures in the biomes. At the surface, each biome has at least one important resource to further your progress. 

 

The caves don't have that except the ruins/archives. Meaning you can skip everything else and ignore it.

 

 

(There's toadstool i guess but.. not important at all.)

Honestly, i wouldn't mind a whole caves rework, change how the progress in caves works. Make it an interesting experience.

Yep; aside from archives and ruins the caves are all mush trees and rocks until you get to muddy turf, then it’s all lightbulbs and rocks. not really fun to explore. Need to address this first and foremost. 

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, Hornete said:

That's not possible. It will not spawn near structures.

How 'near' exactly?

Cuz as far as I know the same applies to Klaus' Sack and yet I remember in one of my old worlds where I based in mosaic, the sack spawned close enough for Klaus' off-screen spawn to ruin my chest area

[Hornete]

2 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

How 'near' exactly?

Cuz as far as I know the same applies to Klaus' Sack and yet I remember in one of my old worlds where I based in mosaic, the sack spawned close enough for Klaus' off-screen spawn to ruin my chest area

It first prefers a spawn point with enough tiles(and no players in range, there's no actual spawn animation for the thing) and no structure-tagged entities within 6 units(unit length = wall length).

If that fails(which is hard because there's like 60+ spawn points for the thing in a world, but not impossible) it just tries to find a point with the least structures near it.

[goblinball]

I don’t see what moving the daywalker to caves would accomplish. We already have toadstool, we don’t need another caves boss that is a pain to fight because you need to search the entire caves to find it first.

i agree I think it’d be nice for the caves to get more content, but this is just not the way to do it.

And besides, there aren’t any pigs underground iirc. Why would the pig boss spawn in the one part of the world that doesn’t have any pigs?

[Primalflower]

54 minutes ago, Hornete said:

It first prefers a spawn point with enough tiles(and no players in range, there's no actual spawn animation for the thing) and no structure-tagged entities within 6 units(unit length = wall length).

If that fails(which is hard because there's like 60+ spawn points for the thing in a world, but not impossible) it just tries to find a point with the least structures near it.

instantaneous silly question: do mini signs count as structures for this purpose? They're small enough to maybe not be too distracting from x or y build...

[Capybara007]

thematically the boss doesnt fit in the caves not only because werepigs dont exist there but because i doubt they are changing the prefab of literally "daywalker"

just wait until they add some dumb goofy lore on how charlie created it or whatever

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

its 5% not 0.05% and there is a big difference between 90% and 95% resistance especially for Wanda but even other characters will take much less damage. 

There is a lot of green gems that you can gather by clearing/resetting ruins, killing dragonfly on respawn and now with Wilson refresh you can just make a Varg farm and get as many green gems as you want.

The body armor has 1240? durabiltiy or somewhere around that number, night armor is 525 and marble armor slows you down.

Nightmare fuel is annoying to gather and I usually just use the shadow pieces boat cheese or shadow splumonkey farm and use the bananas to trade with Monkey Queen so that I can use the blueprints on cartographer's desk to turn them into papyrus. So there's not much difference between gathering nightmare fuel or using some green gems unless you are going to duplicate decorations for big base.

Just one dreadstone armor equals to around 2.6 night armor.

if you have green gems you can dupe thulecite suits for NF instead

sure, for wanda is good but that is so damn niche and unneccesary

and is an opportunity to create an unique armor instead of night armor v2 made of nightmere fuel v2, this isnt a game with poor, flat, lineal, bland balance like valheim & co

edit:

pd. i was thinking about the calc. Thulecite absortion = damage*0.9 while the dreadstone armor is damage*0.95

so yeah, is 5% more -.-! 

5 hours ago, Vinja said:

Yeah unless you specifically want the armor for it’s increased durability and resistance but in my opinion that alone doesn’t make it worth the headache. 
 

I mean it is in beta so it could change but as it is it’s not worth it.

i mean... thulecite suit has the same durability ._.

[HawtDawg]

Honestly it is a bit weird to put it in the caves as werepigs can't really exist there BUT if they don't add it to the caves they should decide to change how it spawns. I believe if they keep it on the surface it should only spawn in a specific biome / maybe giving it one location like how Dragonfly has so that you know where to expect it and it can't really get in the way of buildings. 

I do think that the little nightmare type creatures that spawn after freeing them though can work for the caves as it works well with nightmare phases, maybe they can make a special set piece for it in the caves so that it makes sense lore wise? 

Im just spouting random nonsense but I really do like the boss fight, I just think the execution of where it's located/how it spawns is a bit bad

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i dont think it fits in one single place since he flees and is recaptured by charlie in another place

10 minutes ago, HawtDawg said:

Honestly it is a bit weird to put it in the caves as werepigs can't really exist there

they dont naturally spawn there but they can exists if you make them exists. Same could be done by others or maybe the pig was to curious about caves 

[gamehun20]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

charlie in another place

I do not think it's Charlie it doesn't have the iconic rose covering on it for it to be her

[HawtDawg]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they dont naturally spawn there but they can exists if you make them exists. Same could be done by others or maybe the pig was to curious about caves 

That is true, I'm sure Klei could explain why they'd be down there 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

I do not think it's Charlie it doesn't have the iconic rose covering on it for it to be her

well, the pillars have marble and greek aesthetic which is another charlie's signature

[gamehun20]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

well, the pillars have marble and greek aesthetic which is another charlie's signature

yeah but everything else that Charlie has done is covered by tons of roses

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, gamehun20 said:

yeah but everything else that Charlie has done is covered by tons of roses

well, not the chess pieces but is true that would be cool to have vines and, why not, some roses arround the boss so the set piece doesnt feel that empty

if ends up being charlie which isn't confirmed

[Vinja]

43 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i mean... thulecite suit has the same durability ._.

With less resistance. Not saying that makes the body armor worth going for, just pointing out that if you’re looking at it from pure stat perspective the new suit is better and I could see why if someone has tons of green gems they would dupe them instead of thulecite suits but for the majority of players it’s just not really worth the hassle, thulecite is much more accessible and 5% more resistance isn’t worth what you have to do to get the new suit lol.

New armor definitely needs some kind of perk.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Vinja said:

With less resistance. Not saying that makes the body armor worth going for, just pointing out that if you’re looking at it from pure stat perspective the new suit is better and I could see why if someone has tons of green gems they would dupe them instead of thulecite suits but for the majority of players it’s just not really worth the hassle, thulecite is much more accessible and 5% more resistance isn’t worth what you have to do to get the new suit lol.

New armor definitely needs some kind of perk.

but, again, if you have tons of green gems means that you have too much thulecite that you end up crafting suits for the sake of wasting it so going to fight a boss just so you can  tank 1 damage instead of 2 makes little sense

 lets not be conformist, the armor can have cool perks rather than "+5% armor!!1!1!1!!1"

[maciu67]

1.This boss definitely should be in caves (but not in ruins). We have big doomed guy mutated by dark magic and bunnies hop around him.

2. There are missing something like one super attack in third form but he is still a nice boss.

3. I think "The Daywalker" is much better name than "Nightmare Werepig"

4. I am interested how important he will be for lore (isn't Klei more and more cruel to bosses?).

[Vinja]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but, again, if you have tons of green gems means that you have too much thulecite that you end up crafting suits for the sake of wasting it so going to fight a boss just so you can  tank 1 damage instead of 2 makes little sense

 lets not be conformist, the armor can have cool perks rather than "+5% armor!!1!1!1!!1"

I mean yeah like I said the armor could use a perk so I definitely agree there

and idk the math but 5% extra resistance could definitely make a difference for Wanda especially if you’re trying to fight as old Wanda. Again, I’m not disagreeing with you. I was pointing out that there was a niche scenario in which the new armor could be worth using, which is objectively true.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Vinja said:

I mean yeah like I said the armor could use a perk so I definitely agree there

and idk the math but 5% extra resistance could definitely make a difference for Wanda especially if you’re trying to fight as old Wanda. Again, I’m not disagreeing with you. I was pointing out that there was a niche scenario in which the new armor could be worth using, which is objectively true.

ye, for wanda, maxwell and wes isnt bad

that 5% means double protection than thulecite suit

if you get hit by 100 damage hit you lose 10hp with thulecite gear but 5hp with dreadstone and nightmere armor 

[Thalkas]

Kinda thinking about Ancient Archives. Why we didn't get new boss there? In trailer Charlie was in Archives few times.

I mean I don't have problem to have new boss at surface but Archives are so dead and you are going to explore them just once?

[Cheggf]

11 hours ago, Vinja said:

Not really an argument, just pointing out a fact. The thing is people will go to the caves and engage with the content only if it’s worth it. This is why people really only go to the ruins and sometimes the lunar grotto/archives

You can put a new boss in the caves but with its current loot nobody would ever fight it or search for it. The loot has to be worth it. The loot as it is definitely makes it a surface worthy boss I think.

Tbh if they want caves to be more utilized they need a massive overhaul I think. The caves are huge, but they’re full of practically nothing. Yeah mushrooms, and yeah some rocks if you need it but seriously the caves struggle from a huge diversity problem imo. Not to mention the boss loot being so bad relative to the challenge, time, and resources required to kill them for the average player. That’s my opinion 

This is an argument against the boss existing in general, not against it going to the caves. If people are loot motivated and the boss has "meh loot" why would they fight it just because it's on the surface?

[X-lem]

The fight looks fun and I’m all for more of these. I agree though he doesn’t fit on the surface. Should spawn in some part of the caves. 

[maxwell_winters]

This boss in the cave won't have the same effect. It's implied that whatever inflicted him is so strong that he's still cursed even in broad daylight. Hence, the name Daywalker. So far, magic mostly influenced the surface world at night (summoning Shadow Pieces, full moon effects). The caves are already influenced by nightmare fuel seeping into it, so seeing something like that in it wouldn't be as surprising. Besides, I absolutely hate exploring the caves just for the sake of finding Toadstool spawners and Atrium. Another thing to the list won't make them any more desirable to explore. 

[Vinja]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

This is an argument against the boss existing in general, not against it going to the caves. If people are loot motivated and the boss has "meh loot" why would they fight it just because it's on the surface?

Because people actually do it all the time. Part of the challenge is giving the boss good enough loot to be worth fighting, the other part is the convenience of fighting the boss. It’s a kind of balancing act. Most players aren’t simply loot oriented, but anything to do with the caves instantly isn’t convenient unless it happens to be connected to the ruins since that’s usually the only spot in the caves people are motivated to go to.
 

If the boss has meh loot and is inconvenient people generally will never fight it beyond maybe once or so if they decide they wanna do it just to be able to say they’ve done it. These are your malbatross’ of the world lol. 

The weird thing is though, sometimes even if the boss has good loot people will never fight it if they think it’s too inconvenient. These are your fuelweavers. Bone armor, bone helm, ruins reset for more ruin gear, thurble, I mean this dudes drops are no joke. But if you wanna kill him you gotta kill shadow pieces which are a whole thing on their own, AG, and actually find the atrium which is in the mostly empty and boring yet dangerous caves. This results in many people never fighting him even though he’s arguably the best boss in the game to kill.

If the boss has good loot and is convenient then hell yeah, bring ‘em on. You better believe I’m waiting on deerclops on day 30 every single server just so I can turn him into a designer umbrella. 
 

But the last category, meh loot but convenient to fight. Let’s say this, I play a lot of public servers and majority of them don’t make it past winter, at least not on console. Hell, by the time winter rolls around  I’m usually out of time to play, so I definitely get it. The thing is, I and many players, knowing full well that we have to leave in 20 or 30 minutes and will never get to use any of this loot will still hunt down every boss we can in the short amount of time we have, which is usually only the most convenient to fight or spawn. I’m killing dfly, eye of terror or twins, bee queen, AG while I’m looting ruins, basically just going on a spree of any boss I can conveniently fight. I don’t really give a crap about the loot, I’m gonna be gone soon and the server is gonna be gone soon. If the new boss is in the caves, I’m not gonna waste time hunting him down, and neither will most people. But if he’s on the surface though… I’m already gonna loot the ruins, not much hassle to bring a pick/axe back up with me, (not saying I like that he requires a pick/axe) and I can add this badass looking beast to the list of bosses I rush before the server dies. Some people don’t enjoy the fight but I personally think it’s pretty interesting and fun.