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Why cannon is so useless?


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they would be great with a better aiming system imo but they overthough it instead of doing something like the new cawnival minigame (actually though about they were experimenting to add canons to dst when i played the minigame...)

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The canons are the most useless thing in this beta sadly... I hope it gets buffed by a LOT. It's always sad when we get new cool items that no one uses after 2 days because the are completely useless. 

I think we need prober aiming and also the ability to load multiple canon balls into it. Right now we need to load a canon 10 times, after each loading put the canon balls back into our inventory, fire the canon and hit every shot (which is impossible for moving objects) so we can kill one rockjaw :grin:

There are darts, weather pains, trident and other stuff that is all much stronger. 

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The cannon honestly just seems like a far worse catapult. Where catapult can turn on its own, has no blind spot, fires infinite shots for as long as one nitre will last in the battery, and has high dps since it throws rocks so often, the cannon's only real benefit is its more space efficient than catapults.

I think for the cannon to stand out amongst the competition it needs MUCH higher damage, space for more than one cannonball, and more cannonballs crafted per gunpowder.

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2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

they would be great with a better aiming system imo but they overthough it instead of doing something like the new cawnival minigame (actually though about they were experimenting to add canons to dst when i played the minigame...)

*Ranged combat rework boss music plays in the backround somewhere*

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definitly needs a better aiming

at the moment it can only be used on boats with the spin thing

and even then it sucks

the dmg is fine imo cuz you craft like 4 or 5 cannonball per gunpowder and thus meaning 400/500 dmg vs AoE 200

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The characters should be able to control the cannon when they use it (direction and distance in a certain range depending on how it is placed, indicated by a target circle similar to the special attacks in The Forge). Cannonballs should be loaded automatically from the inventory of the characters as long as they use the cannon (with a small loading animation).

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I think they should swivel to aim and use the rudder to steer.

I deff need some indicator that shows where it's going to hit. And a small aoe would be great, you have to be so precise that it's impossible to hit a moving target.

Should be able to adjust distance??

Can it hold like 5 at a time but load 1 by 1??? (For balance)

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Several pitches:

I think the cannon needs to have an inventory of some kind to load multiple cannonballs at once. (balancing tbd for what that limit is) this feels non negotiable. And, although to a late game experience one might have tons of gunpowder resources lying around, it feels like a ton of waiting before being able to produce cannonballs en masse and therefore making the cannon viable for attacking (which is maybe your intention, but then at that point idk why you wouldn't use any other more useful weapon that does far greater dmg?).

The base dmg feels like it needs to be raised, why expend so many resources on a useless item that can only do 60dmg per clumsy cannonball shot that doesn't even guarantee you hit your target when you could just as easily slap your target with a hambat? Alterantively, doing AOE dmg might make it more interesting to clear an area of mobs/ structures and give it a unique purpose. Or keep it as just a weapon and increase the dmg to something insanely high.

To fix the aim issues, it might want to be something that, once interacted with, could be manipulated  and aimed with  a simple mouse-click. Or Auto targeting similar to a slingshot, or maybe include some sort of aiming mechanic tied to strength? Maybe it's buffed by wearing a pirate hat? In this instance maybe there'd be displayed an arrow swaying back and forth similar to the Cawnival game and you'd have to hit stop when directed at your target. If no new aiming mechanic is implemented, I think the very least thing that needs to be done is show some sort of ghost line to indicate where the cannonball will land (similar to the dashed ring line that appears when placing an ice-flingo to see where you're covered)

Or what if it did linear AOE dmg? one of the surprising things i found when i used the cannon was that it didn't obliterate the rock form directly in its path because where the ball itself had "landed" was technically further forward. I thought that was a little silly, not only because it seemed like the aiming had to be so precise for a still target with such an imprecise (and EXPENSIVE) devise, but also because, visually, the ball had passed right through the rock formation. If a ray of AOE is not the intention of the cannon ( which i think could also be a viable fix) then i think visually the cannonball needs to be fired similarly to shipwrecked and have it "pop fly" in the air. 

Something interesting to consider is creating a mechanic, similar to deepsea fishing, of loading it up with additional gunpowder which could increase range or dmg or maybe other items to create different buffs/effects

ALL of these suggestions are just possibilities and are in no way meant to all exist together. I'm curious what sounds most appealing to other players. And also what balancing fixes may be.

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I love the concept of the cannon, but I'd love to see better aiming with a clear target indicator like others have suggested. 

 Using the rudder is good when you need to completely turn to the other side of the boat, but using the rudder to aim is a frustrating process of running back and forth just to get the right angle while you play a miniature game of Wheel of Fortune with the automatic turning.

As for the rudder, I feel like turning with it would be easier if you could use Q and E to manually move it in whichever direction you want instead of making it move in one direction constantly while also requiring you to click on the (now moving) character.

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2 hours ago, Chesterxito said:

the dmg is fine imo cuz you craft like 4 or 5 cannonball per gunpowder and thus meaning 400/500 dmg vs AoE 200

4 cannonballs, 60 dmg each. And it's not gaurantied that you won't miss any shot with them

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16 minutes ago, YoJniy said:

4 cannonballs, 60 dmg each. And it's not gaurantied that you won't miss any shot with them

wait what

I tested them on a target dummy and it dealt 100 dmg, before the latest patch

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3 hours ago, Queron81 said:

The characters should be able to control the cannon when they use it (direction and distance in a certain range depending on how it is placed, indicated by a target circle similar to the special attacks in The Forge). Cannonballs should be loaded automatically from the inventory of the characters as long as they use the cannon (with a small loading animation).

Yeah, to add to this, I was hoping that the cannonballs would do more damage. I really hope that they end having a function where they can be mounted (Think machine gun placements from First Person Shooters during scripted events). Don't give the cannons 360 degrees of turning, but make it so that it shoots within a 90 degree range, so that way the Rudder can be used to assist players who are aiming the cannons and help them turn to make shots.

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What I'd look forward :

  • A slight homing effect if there is an obvious target ahead, with a moderately generous angle but you will still need to rotate boat if the target isn't in your direction,
  • Better damages, at least 200 dmg (so double current) per cannon ball, given how precise this kind of shoot is (but we have no real control over so that's why we need some assist) and frequent it would be to miss because target moves or boat isn't stopped, it should be at least a little more rewarding than normal gunpowder being so simple to use by itself, plus dammit it's a cannon ball you're not supposed to survive these,
  • A reticule to shows where the cannon aims and shoot initially, either while hovering the cannon or only during placement, but this should be definitively helpful to help people figure out how they work

So with just that I'm fairly convinced they would get much better, dynamic (cause I don't like too static fights) and fun to use while keeping the slight strategic aspect they need.

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The projectile pierces and does 100 damage, the explosion does 60 in an AoE. They can both hit the same target for a total of 160 damage.

20220617212605_1.thumb.jpg.a13a926689324208ba3ade689c7204f6.jpg

That said the thing still feels super awkward to use and not very good. Having some kind of aiming, even if it's in a limited arc, would go a long way, and being able to aim up and down to adjust the range would also be pretty neat.

You can't fire it while holding something in your hand, so you typically need to constantly move the mouse back and forth from your inventory to fire it which feels super unpleasant

the best solution I found to rapidfire it was to drop a bunch of cannonballs one by one on the ground next to it, then fill up your inventory so they go straight into your hand, and alternate between pressing the action button and clicking the cannon. it's better but I still don't like it or want this to be how you're "supposed" to use it.

ideally it'd be useful on land, not just at sea, but it'll need some work to get there.
It should also do actual damage to boats, rather than just putting a hole in wooden ones and doing nothing to grass.

Still, it could be worse, reminder that these things exist.
20220617214827_1.thumb.jpg.55a258a4f914b8b4ebd0856e32b15be9.jpg

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4 minutes ago, ADM said:

A slight homing effect if there is an obvious target ahead, with a moderately generous angle but you will still need to rotate boat if the target isn't in your direction,

this is something i definitely expect. I think this would pretty quickly turn the cannon into an interesting niche tool.

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28 minutes ago, ADM said:
  • A slight homing effect if there is an obvious target ahead, with a moderately generous angle but you will still need to rotate boat if the target isn't in your direction,

Yeah I think this would be really nice!! I played through Kirby and the Forgotten Land recently and that's how they made aiming shots feel good in 3D. If your projectile is at an angle where it'll just sliiightly miss your target, it'll do a subtle homing effect to make sure it still hits.

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I love the cannons for the rare times that a group of us on a server all role play as pirates and participate in boat pvp.

But other than that, most other things i can think of for using cannons is attacking stationary targets like a farm on land or crab king

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I think canons will get their use in upcoming future content updates.. But for now frankly it's too inefficient to use. Moving canon's direction feels like shaking one's head and neck to brush thier teeth, i stead of moving their arm.

Cannot ignore the feeling that the canon is existng just for praising the superior genius of Winona's catapult.

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On 6/17/2022 at 10:21 PM, TheKingDedede said:

Yeah, to add to this, I was hoping that the cannonballs would do more damage. I really hope that they end having a function where they can be mounted (Think machine gun placements from First Person Shooters during scripted events). Don't give the cannons 360 degrees of turning, but make it so that it shoots within a 90 degree range, so that way the Rudder can be used to assist players who are aiming the cannons and help them turn to make shots.

Simply this.

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Range of the cannon is 2.5 pitchfork tiles, range of the explosion is probably 2.5 walls?
it'll destroy stuff in front of it so making walls or something behind which to fire it is not an option
since it damages players its not like you can safely have one player kiting a boss exactly in front of where it is aiming while the other provides artillery support

The cost for the ammunition is eh, it's reasonable. Or rather, if the cannon could easily and reliably deal 160 damage each time to a target it'd be reasonable, not cheap but reasonable. Well, the cannon can't easily or reliably do that, so if the ammunition were cheaper, that might still provide some incentive to try and use the thing. As it is right now it's not easy to use, reliable, nor an especially cheap or powerful means of dealing damage so it's really struggling for a niche.

Best use I found for the thing was killing tentapillars, it can easily and safely take one down in 5 shots but the positioning is pretty precise. As for other dangerous targets that cannot move and need to be fought with some regularity, I am out of ideas.

 

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with the implementation of the cannons, a bullet made of ewecus  mucus could be added, to paralyze the pirates, giving more use to the cannons and a utility to the mucus

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