Do you believe rollback is cheating?

[kittem]

i think if you get mad about rollbacks you have no life. who cares. its a video game, and its an intended feature in a video game. if it makes you so mad just dont do it
edit i only play alone. have never had to rollback on a public or multiplayer server for a bad reason, its always been because of greifing or everything being set on fire. if someone is misusing them, thats their fault and not the features fault.

[Cannoli]

I don't "believe" anything.

Rollback IS cheating.

[GetNerfedOn]

In my opinion its a mechanic that the devs put in the game and we're free to use it regardless of whether we perceive it runs counter to the game design or not. 

I'm influenced by PokémonChallenges' outlook on Nuzlockes in this regard: in the end, who gives a [expletive]? Play your games how you want them to be played. Whether you consider rollbacks anathema because you want to be faithful to the game's original design or if you want to challenge yourself or if you use them to save yourself all the time, it all boils down to whether you're having fun. 

I do self impose permadeath in my worlds and while I have enjoyed the challenge provided, in more casual runs i make liberal use of rollbacks to ensure i don't feel like i'm beating myself against a wall in a difficult boss fight for instance. 

[Dextops]

1 hour ago, GetNerfedOn said:

In my opinion its a mechanic that the devs put in the game and we're free to use it regardless of whether we perceive it runs counter to the game design or not. 

i disagree with this sentiment because console commands are objectively cheating yet are something in the game. Fine line with wording 

[HowlVoid]

I will now impart some wise words from Mr. Resetti.

However, in recent year Mr. Resetti has gone on record to say that maybe resetting isn't so bad and that perhaps he was too harsh. As a society, have we grown soft?

The real question is, can you live with the guilt of it?

To know that you were unable to live with your mistakes , so where did that lead you?  To the rollbacks.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. 

Spoiler

Nah, I don't do it, but I don't care who does.

 

[Dextops]

11 hours ago, Shosuko said:

Edit - Contrary to what other ppl have said, I would encourage new players to use rollbacks a lot.  Deerclops just spawned on you and you weren't able to fend it off?  Roll back and try again.  Keep trying.  Feel free to mess up, get experimental, and even if you *succeed* at the task roll back again and try another go.  Practice.  This game requires a lot of knowledge and understanding that you won't develop if you just take the L from something like a boss or a late game hound wave every time.  Just make sure your focus is on learning and improving, and recognize that learning and improving on recovering from death is also important (so note what things could help you recover next time - like pre-crafting a fire and indo pit, opening up more cave entrances to duck into, get used to torching trees, OH YEAH - and actually crafting res items lol)

i disagree

if i was a noob and found out that rollbacks were a thing i would've stopped playing the game way faster thinking i'd had mastered everything when i didn't. While i had around 100 hours in the game i did exactly that and stopped playing for a little bit thinking i had mastered the game. Then i tried no rolling back and i realized the hard truth. "man i suck". So there is my sad anime backstory on why i don't rollback

also i think a lot of people are misinterpreting what he is saying. first off he is saying in the context of you died or did a mistake so you decide to rollback. Also it isn't about if you do it or not you can still do it and consider it cheating or not do it and consider it not cheating
 

Spoiler

had to revise this because it's been stuck in moderation limbo for a couple hours because it had a no no word in it

 

[planetearth]

Yeah it's cheating.

But it's also a game, if that makes it more fun, that's what you should do. It's a little more complicated when playing with others,  that's something to discuss at the beginning.

The game is hard. If you want to play it the hard way, no rollbacks from the beginning. This is you learning how to avoid setting your base on fire by having to make a new one, this is you learning to have several resurrection methods available when you die for good. Rollbacks are not a good way to learn how to play the hard way, you're just going to play the easy way.

[xDarkSoul18x]

It's there to use like cheats in an old GTA game, if you like. I can say though from experience it is really annoying playing with people that rollback after they die or make any mistake. For me, it kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

[YottaCat]

I might as well put my experiences here. Normally I was strongly against rollbacking, only doing so if there was a glitch or a griefer. I pretty much thought it ruined the point of the game.
Most of that was because I didn't care about efficiency. If I failed a boss, that sucks, I can always try again. If my base burnt down, that sucks, better rebuild it.

Nowadays, I care a lot more than I probably should about making a small mistake that costs some time. I have plenty of revive tools at my disposal so when I die it's not fear about losing my world, it's just the loss of time and progress I can't bother to get back because I don't feel like I'm doing things efficiently.
I don't usually tend to do things as optimal or great as possible. But I still get a bad feeling when I just don't feel like I'm doing things fast or good, and I get very demotivated in the world.
I also usually feel a bit of guilt when I rollback, I feel like I'm exploiting a game mechanic just cause of my own mistake. Just because I didn't do things "good" the first time. But if I live with not doing "good" the first time I get incredibly demotivated in the world.

I usually rollback pretty frequently now with a bit less guilt than before. Yes I do believe it's a bit cheat-y to abuse rollback but I don't really care if you do it or not, I do it a lot myself.
 

[Seero]

3 hours ago, kittem said:

i think if you get mad about rollbacks you have no life. who cares. its a video game, and its an intended feature in a video game. if it makes you so mad just dont do it
edit i only play alone. have never had to rollback on a public or multiplayer server for a bad reason, its always been because of greifing or everything being set on fire. if someone is misusing them, thats their fault and not the features fault.

That's a bit rude, let people get mad if they want. Everyone has their reasoning and pet peeves.

 

I'd rollback to guarantee specific boss drops and I don't think it is cheating, I could've gotten the drops anyways out of luck so what happens if I force it? 

(specifically Krampus sack from Klaus and LE from AG)

[Dextops]

3 hours ago, kittem said:

i think if you get mad about rollbacks you have no life. who cares. its a video game, and its an intended feature in a video game. if it makes you so mad just dont do it
edit i only play alone. have never had to rollback on a public or multiplayer server for a bad reason, its always been because of greifing or everything being set on fire. if someone is misusing them, thats their fault and not the features fault.

damn who hurt you. same thing could be used for the counter point

"if you roll back you have no life. You are ruining the point of the game, and it isn't intended to be used like this, if you use it quit the game"

[Primalflower]

i think using rollbacks are fine and its a bit of a gamer cope to put various arbitrary circumstances required for them to be called for. If you don't have fun dying and losing 10+ days of progress, then you shouldn't subject yourself to that. Its bad of any of you whom stigmatize trying to have more fun with your video game over arbitrarily setting yourself back.

[reallychina]

2 hours ago, Dextops said:

i disagree

if i was a noob and found out that rollbacks were a thing i would've stopped playing the game way faster thinking i'd had mastered everything when i didn't. While i had around 100 hours in the game i did exactly that and stopped playing for a little bit thinking i had mastered the game. Then i tried no rolling back and i realized the hard truth. "man i suck". So there is my sad anime backstory on why i don't rollback

also i think a lot of people are misinterpreting what he is saying. first off he is saying in the context of you died or did a mistake so you decide to rollback. Also it isn't about if you do it or not you can still do it and consider it cheating or not do it and consider it not cheating
 

  Reveal hidden contents

had to revise this because it's been stuck in moderation limbo for a couple hours because it had a no no word in it

 

If you die while learning to do deerclops, there is no reason to play 30 days over and over again until you learn the fight.  So rolling back specifically to learn it is fine and reasonable.

 

Once you learned to fight it and are comfortable with it, if you died because you got greedy or made a mistake, you should not roll back.

 

This resoning becomes clearer when learning fuelweaver. Not rolling back would be either wasting 60+ days or expensive weapons and armors that take a while to get.

 

Ideally you should use console on a new world and practice the fights over and over instead of rolling back, but still, rollback is an easy option for those not used with console

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, reallychina said:

If you die while learning to do deerclops, there is no reason to play 30 days over and over again until you learn the fight.  So rolling back specifically to learn it is fine and reasonable.

 

Once you learned to fight it and are comfortable with it, if you died because you got greedy or made a mistake, you should not roll back.

 

This resoning becomes clearer when learning fuelweaver. Not rolling back would be either wasting 60+ days or expensive weapons and armors that take a while to get.

 

Ideally you should use console on a new world and practice the fights over and over instead of rolling back, but still, rollback is an easy option for those not used with console

yeah i can agree with some of that but that is situational. I'd also rather get punished for my lack of skill instead of a pat on the head but different things for different people

[reallychina]

5 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yeah i can agree with some of that but that is situational. I'd also rather get punished for my lack of skill instead of a pat on the head but different things for different people

There are plenty of occasions to get punished once you learn the game and stop rolling back. And plenty of 100+ days worlds to lose. I was 15 seconds away from losing a 2k days world.

 

Not rolling back for something extremely difficult you had no way of knowing means not valuing your own time.

[YottaCat]

21 minutes ago, reallychina said:

If you die while learning to do deerclops, there is no reason to play 30 days over and over again until you learn the fight.  So rolling back specifically to learn it is fine and reasonable.

 

Once you learned to fight it and are comfortable with it, if you died because you got greedy or made a mistake, you should not roll back.

 

This resoning becomes clearer wgen learning fuelweaver. Not rolling back would be either wasting 60+ days or expensive weapons and armors that take a while to get.

 

Ideally you should just use cobsole on a new world and practice the fight over and over instead of rolling back, but still, rollback is an easy option for those not used with console

That's what I did back then and that's what I do today, practice fights first with too many items plus, make sure I got the fight down, then go into the fight legitimately.

Might aswell state the fact that I first originally played DS, there wasn't any rollback and I didn't alt+f4 to cheat death. I died and progressed through the challenges don't starve had to offer completely legitimately. When I died, I tried again from the very start. And I survived years eventually in every DLC.

When I moved to DST, I heavily avoided rollbacking. If there was no way to revive when I died, the world gets restarted. One time I didn't realize meat effigies worked in the caves when the meat effigy was on the surface, guess what? I restarted all my 100 days of progress.

Although for bugs that affected me negatively, that wasn't MY fault, that wasn't caused by MY lack of knowledge. Rather the game. So I believe when that happened that was fine for me to rollback.
When I was wortox and was on a boat and decided to soul hop to land, I instead drowned in the water. That wasn't a mistake that could've been avoided with knowledge, rather a bug. So I felt like it was an appropriate time to rollback.

I eventually got to kill fuelweaver without a single rollback on a different world, it took me until day 300+ but I still have done it without a rollback.

At this point I feel like I've experienced the challenges the game had to offer without any rollbacks, I feel like I'm fine to rollback for mistakes I make. I don't care about playing the intended way, I just want to have fun.

One thing I regretted was back at that time was telling other people off for rollbacking to cheat death/other features, they were playing the game their way and were having fun.
They were playing the game how they wanted, and it didn't affect me physically. So I had no reason to be a **** about it.

[Cactus_kid78]

I'm a new player. I make mistakes constantly. I don't know how to kite, survive koalaphant, get ice box before first winter, etc. So I might rollback, because I didn't know that specific thing was gonna happen. Same thing with griefers. In multiplayer, I agree, let everyone take a vote, don't just rollback because you died as wortox and accidentally went towards a pig village.

[ALCRD]

21 minutes ago, Cactus_kid78 said:

I'm a new player. I make mistakes constantly. I don't know how to kite

I'm not a new player and still make mistakes often and can't kite for s**t xD

[Keller Max]

Mmmm!!! Random lightning hit your beautiful reed trap while you were passing by. Oops! Totally my mistake for having such vulnerable non renewable items in my world...

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Mmmm!!! Random lightning hit your beautiful reed trap while you were passing by. Oops! Totally my mistake for not having a lightning rod near such vulnerable non renewable items in my world...

:3

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Mmmm!!! Random lightning hit your beautiful reed trap while you were passing by. Oops! Totally my mistake for having such vulnerable non renewable items in my world...

k but isn't it?

[Keller Max]

14 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

:3

Small annoying shiet happens and you can't deny it. You can't control Klaus spawn for example. And if his sack spawned near your base and then he spawns from your base, he can smash through your ideal row of chests, etc... I've had this encounter in one of my last worlds. Rollback and now he spawned from the opposite side.

Childish of you to assume that random crap can't happen in your games 

[kittem]

6 hours ago, Dextops said:

damn who hurt you. same thing could be used for the counter point

"if you roll back you have no life. You are ruining the point of the game, and it isn't intended to be used like this, if you use it quit the game"

no one hurt me
however yeah the wording is a bit mean. so i apologize for that. the forum annoys me with elitism a lot so i was like 'whatever ill shoot back.'
but also your counterargument of reversing mine wouldnt work, because it is intended to be used like this. if rollback wasnt intended to be used, it wouldnt exist in the game. if it hypothetically was not, then i would see why this argument would exist no matter how i disagree (if this was debating a rollback mod or whatever), but this is the real game and a real feature

i still think people genuinely mad over other people using rollbacks or whatever are um, silly gooses

[YottaCat]

1 hour ago, Keller Max said:

Small annoying shiet happens and you can't deny it. You can't control Klaus spawn for example. And if his sack spawned near your base and then he spawns from your base, he can smash through your ideal row of chests, etc... I've had this encounter in one of my last worlds. Rollback and now he spawned from the opposite side.

Childish of you to assume that random crap can't happen in your games 

Yes, DST is unfair, but that's just due to the nature of the game.

Don't Starve seasons are designed to destroy your base and even your run which the game doesn't tell you about. There's a literal boss designed to destroy your base which the game doesn't tell you about.
The intention of the game was to be uncompromising, to be unfair to the player.
The game was originally forced to be permadeath aswell with the occasional touch stone.

But I believe rollbacking to avoid those unfair circumstances is completely fine if that's how you enjoy the game. My point is is that stuff like that is what the game intends.

[Dextops]

20 minutes ago, kittem said:

but also your counterargument of reversing mine wouldnt work, because it is intended to be used like this.

not for cheating death and undoing every mistake. It goes against every design philosophy they had up until this point. The only time i would care is if someone who rolls back on situations like these is also someone who cries "dst is too easy/i want dst to be harder" as my previous quote went "my brother in Christ look in a mirror"