[Poll] On Progression/Difficulty Scaling

[GetNerfedOn]

With the recent addition of Varglets to mix up hound waves in the latest, Klei has shown attention to players' concerns regarding difficulty and world progression.

In light of this, would you support changes to difficulty scaling in future updates?

As always answer freely and do vote in the comments!

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

I would love to have more challenge and whatnot thrown at me as the world progresses. Right now I don't really see a point in staying in a world very far past year 1 or 2, as it becomes significantly easier to survive the exact same challenges as before.

[roversfanss]

Yes, but only if these changes will be optional. I dont want to feel like im on day 1 when im on day 1000 

[Cheggf]

28 minutes ago, GetNerfedOn said:

With the recent addition of Varglets to mix up hound waves in the latest, Klei has shown attention to players' concerns regarding difficulty and world progression.

In that they don't like it because they heavily nerfed the only thing that scales up over time to the point that you no longer even need to build hound traps since the hound waves are so weak and infrequent.

Adding or changing things over time just causes confusion and is an unnecessary barrier to access the content. If it really is a good idea to be added why gate it behind 10+ hours of nothing?

[goblinball]

I’d really enjoy more late-game threats, as long as they don’t try to destroy my precious megabase. I’d much prefer if we got more challenging foes that the player had to seek out (stuff like moose/goose and mac tusk) than enemies/events which will be seeking us (wildfires, hounds, frog rain).

I’d also prefer more late-game biomes. Exploring the ruins in a world for the first time is very fun, however exploration doesn’t really get much more challenging after that. I’d enjoy if we got wacky, far-away lands which are balanced around the player having late-game loot, however I understand this might not be possible since the surface is pretty full and the caves already have the ruins, atrium, and archive.

[Left 4 Sharkb8]

Also another thing I want to add is the "More hunt creatures" thing. I've wanted additional hunt mobs for AAAAAAGES, and it would be a nice way to spice up the game later on in the context of how I play.

[reallychina]

Of all things, bosses should scale on each respawn.

 

1. not with more health but with more damage. MASSIVE DAMAGE.  this way they would actually put a strain on resources and force you to play better. and be more rewarding when defeated. they need to reward better play (fuelweaver heals more etc).

2. every new iteration should add a chance for extra loot - second Celestial Champion adds a chance for an extra crown shard, next adds 1 shards plus chance for second etc.

3. every new boss iteration should drop a statue blueprint that is bigger, giving you extra motivation to get a massive statue. this way the bigger the statues the more difficult boss you managed to defeat. this would not be hard to implement, just scale the statue size by 10% each time. They are too small anyway. Statues would now mean something.

[moneymonday]

13 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Adding or changing things over time just causes confusion and is an unnecessary barrier to access the content.

 

the added "content" could just make use of items already in the game (stuff like the rain measuring device) so it isnt reeeallyy any more confusing than it already is 

 

15 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

If it really is a good idea to be added why gate it behind 10+ hours of nothing?

so that it doesn't overwhelm new players while creating new challenges for more experienced players to overcome

 

tbh i do sorta agree and i would def be careful adding difficulty scaling like this but if its done right it could work 

3 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Of all things, bosses should scale on each respawn.

a lot of bosses are already 1 time kill bosses and i dont think this helps

this could be a cool gimmick for a boss that gets stronger every time u kill it and only drops its loot at its final form though

[Cannoli]

23 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

In that they don't like it because they heavily nerfed the only thing that scales up over time to the point that you no longer even need to build hound traps since the hound waves are so weak and infrequent.

Adding or changing things over time just causes confusion and is an unnecessary barrier to access the content. If it really is a good idea to be added why gate it behind 10+ hours of nothing?

Hound Trap = Noob Trap.

A big waste of time and resources.

[Capybara007]

Ive seen people dislike EoT for being a late game content update and that you have to do a long quest to access it.

I dont understand how now people are excited for something they have to wait the good old 70 ingame days to see (which will most likely not be hard since they are already experienced players)

6 minutes ago, prezera said:

so that it doesn't overwhelm new players while creating new challenges for more experienced players to overcome

i guess the challenge of the "experienced" player is to wait for those 70 days of nothing

[chincer]

If bosses would scale base on the amount of people in the server it would make it so three people have an easier time but a group of 12 really have to do it together instead of sending a hunt party for them

[Cheggf]

57 minutes ago, prezera said:

the added "content" could just make use of items already in the game (stuff like the rain measuring device) so it isnt reeeallyy any more confusing than it already is 

What? 

57 minutes ago, prezera said:

so that it doesn't overwhelm new players while creating new challenges for more experienced players to overcome

If it's so oppressive that it overwhelms new players it's not a good addition to the game. It will just be obnoxious to deal with.

[Owlrust]

2 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

would you support changes to difficulty scaling in future updates?

In general DST would benefit from more interactions with the environment not necessarily in the form of fighting, if this were implemented for late-game worlds I could see a progression of difficulty-increase that is naturally occurring.

Btw, I love that idea you put in for "Changes to hunt encounters to add more variety" to make some hunts lead to a single pig, that's an awesome idea.

[CaptainChaotica]

Interesting poll, but can we have a "Maybe" or "It depends on what the changes are" or "Maybe, if it's toggleable in the world options?" in the first question?  I'd like to vote, but I don't wanna say a flat-out, unconditional "Yes"...but I also don't wanna sound like I'm trying to cut off ALL possibilities _completely_ with a "No"...

Spoiler

 

It depends.  Like others have already said, this would make a MUCH, much, _much_ bigger difference to those who single-play DST--like myself. There's no way in eff I could handle even ONE Ewecus; that's a mob pretty much _made_ for multiplayer (one player can free the other one when they get stuck...otherwise, the stuck character just dies as the Ewecus hits them over and over while they're helpless).  So a herd of them would preeeeettttyyy much make me stop even _considering_ hunting ever again.

Same for bosses getting tougher:  Many of them are already meant for multiple players as they are.  Now, some of them i can just not go to where they are and leave them alone, but if the seasonal bosses such as Deerclops and Bearger get more single-minded about following you, or start hitting harder...

Environmental changes _maybe_, but bear in mind some seasons are already really scarce as it is.  In my current main world it's summer most of the time (I randomised the seasons and that's what I got--lucky me!) so I'm very often running out of grass and/or twigs--and I live in a freaking giant savannah.  

Maybe new seasonal weather effects, like storms or wind, as in Shipwrecked?  If the Rain-o-meter could warn you when one was coming (new "Inspect" quotes would have to be added).  Nothing like the Sandstorm slowing you down EVERYWHERE in the world, however...because then all it'd take is _one_ regular, vanilla, pre-Varglet style hound wave and it's over.  I would know; I DID get caught by a hound wave in the sandstorm once

...and learned NEVER to go into the sandstorm pre goggles-having until right _after_ a hound wave, ever again.  (In this picture it's a sinkhole that finished me off, as they used to be slightly _faster_ than regular running speed.  But it was hounds that did most of the work beforehand.)

Last but not least, I know those who propose upping the difficulty of the game are sick and tired of hearing this counter argument, but WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN NEW ARRIVALS?  You shouldn't join really old servers in general, every experienced player knows, but the problem is _ONLY experienced players already know that_.  And what about friends being _asked_ to join a friend's long-running server, as a guest? I greet them at the portal or make a "Helpful Sign" area:

 

(they're much more likely to arrive in summer, here.)

The newish automatic seasonal items thing would help some...but not against being slowed down by wind while a mob of spiders led by a Spider Queen attacks every four days, and the resources are _extra_ picked over by the older players because they're struggling too. Even an experienced veteran would have some problems there.  You don't want Day 1000 to feel like Day 1...but conversely, you don't want a REALLY Day 1000 to _be_ someone's actual Day 1, either.

You can warn, in the server description, ("Note:  Difficulty Scaling Over Time is ENABLED on this server.") but pff, nobody reads those, right?  It's like EULAs.

 

TL;DR:  Only if we can choose in what manner, by how much, WHAT, exactly, scales up, and when it starts happening.  Otherwise no; we'd never be able to play singleplayer or invite friends into a long-running world to show them around, ever again.

...Notorious

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, CaptainChaotica said:

There's no way in eff I could handle even ONE Ewecus; that's a mob pretty much _made_ for multiplayer (one player can free the other one when they get stuck...otherwise, the stuck character just dies as the Ewecus hits them over and over while they're helpless)

hired pigs help you removing the mucus

[CaptainChaotica]

Oh yeah, I always forget about doing that.  Also my pigs tend to die fighting spiders, clockworks or frogs along the way, so I'm not sure if they'd MAKE it to the end of the hunt... : P

(I guess what we'd need is a bit of code to make them less distractible/auto aggressive, like what was done to Abigail to stop her getting stuck on every single last random tentacle whenever you cross a swamp?  That could work.)

...Notorious

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, CaptainChaotica said:

Oh yeah, I always forget about doing that.  Also my pigs tend to die fighting spiders, clockworks or frogs along the way, so I'm not sure if they'd MAKE it to the end of the hunt... : P

(I guess what we'd need is a way to make them less distractible/auto aggressive, like what was done to Abigail to stop her getting stuck on every single last random tentacle whenever you cross a swamp?  That could work.)

...Notorious

you can hire them AFTER you find the ewecus

[CaptainChaotica]

...not if it snots me beforehand, or, the hunt ends _nowhere NEAR pigs_.

I'm not saying pigs should be _totally_ docile once they're hired by you, however--if they're HIT, of _course_ they're gonna aggro on that creature.  Just, perhaps, a little less "SPIDER EXIST IN VICINITY!  I KILL!"  But _only while hired_.  You can't control where a hunt is going to end, after all, so depending on where exactly the trail leads you through, all KINDS of things might distract them and waste all their HP as meat shields helpful comrades, away.

Mind you, here we are arguing about one little point, when the original proposal was:  MULTIPLE Ewecuses maybe showing up at the end of a hunt in later days on a server.  That + singleplayer is...no.

I know Don't Starve TOGETHER is meant to be played, well, together, but I don't think we should _completely_ cut off even the possibility of single players either, which is why I just want there to be a "maybe if it's toggleable" option in the poll.  And "Just play regular Don't Starve" doesn't work anymore, there's been SO FREAKING MANY CHANGES and new content all over the place.

...Notorious

[JustExo]

The issue with a lot of things that might be implemented to make the game harder as time goes on is, a lot of the time people who know what they're doing and have plans for most every eventuality will come to see certain challenges as nothing but annoyances. if you take hound waves as they currently are (not in the beta) a lot of people see them as just annoyances that they have to deal with, or things that they'd rather avoid entirely which is why so many people were upset about not being able to dodge them by re-logging, and why (I think) klei made the changes to them that they did (making them spawn less frequently)
I think challenge is something that should be sought after more often than not, and the reward for seeking out the challenge should also be enough to make players want to go deal with it. 
Finding a balance between tedium, and challenge is something that would take a lot of trial and error

[HumanBean150]

3 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Ive seen people dislike EoT for being a late game content update and that you have to do a long quest to access it.

What do you mean by EoT? Just a typo?

[goblinball]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If it really is a good idea to be added why gate it behind 10+ hours of nothing?

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by “10+ hours of nothing”? If you’re referring to all the stuff the average player does in their first in-game year, idk about you but that doesn’t seem like 10 hours of “nothing”.

[minespatch]

I think Klei should add a Oxygen not included "Sweat or no sweat" button decision for those who want a base build or survival experience.

 

I've seen the buttons before but it should be asked before the world is made and not when you first open the game.

[Cannoli]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by “10+ hours of nothing”? If you’re referring to all the stuff the average player does in their first in-game year, idk about you but that doesn’t seem like 10 hours of “nothing”.

Maybe his friends play the game while he eats the food and do "nothing".

[Mike23Ua]

I’m not going to vote on the poll but I will just state that I really dislike the idea of a world that gets progressively harder to survive in the higher it climbs in days- these types of games usually have a “Death Date”

In other words: You reach a point where it’s too difficult for You or for friends you want to play with you to still be able to enjoy the game.

Then what? Do you do like players do on State of Decay 2 and abandon the hopelessly overrun town full of infected & out of resources to a less infected town that hasn’t been looted out yet?

Do you restart a new world at Day 1 to play with your friend who can’t survive Day 3001 shenanigans?

I think this best solution to this problem is world Gen settings and world Gen toggles.

Currently if I want to play the game with my friend but my world is in Summer/Winter & my friend isn’t able to understand how to live in summer/winter- then if I exit the game, turn OFF every season but Autumn and reload the world- my less skilled friends can still play in the same session with me regardless of if I’m on day 1 or day 3001

sure I may need to turn off things like hound waves, weather, etc… but 

We aren’t Skill gap locked from playing with each other and that’s what’s most important.

A world that gets harder and harder as days go by would essentially be an Hour Glass, imagine that you are this little human glued to the bottom of an hour glass there’s only so long you or your friend will be able to handle that sand filling up on your head until you need to flip the glass back over to avoid suffocating in sand.

The only way to prevent this would be to be able to alter things on/off/more/less 

Same as I do NOW when my casual friend wants to play by disabling every season but autumn and setting hound waves to less/none.

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, HumanBean150 said:

What do you mean by EoT? Just a typo?

i meant eye of the storm, me dumb