SinancoTheBest Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Probably a suggestion that'll anger some but a change/bugfix that would go along with the recent changes like switching shards not preventing a hound/worm attack. As the title says, void should be a void, something that uses the ocean's mechanics of falling into if you somehow end up walking onto it like say, being pushed by closing a gate at the edge of the map. Anyplayers that fall this way could drop all (or some) of their items the edge that borders the void. While this may seem like a bug fix just to annoy those that use the void walking glitch for convenience, I think it'd be a beneficial QoL change for following reasons: > Void could be used as an easy trash can to throw items into and have them destroyed. If a key item is thrown, it'd spawn on the opposite side of the void. > Flying and floating entities would have the advantage of traveling over the void. As such, ghost characters would be able to travel across maze-like corridors of the caves easily and lightbugs would be more viable as they wouldn't get stuck in corners all the time. Even bee mine would benefit with bees able to fly over the void. Bats would act more freely. I surmise that players that fall into the void would die and become spooky ghosts instantly without leaving a skeleton but if klei wants to be merciful they can make players "wash ashore with lowered max hp" just like the ocean. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPizzaMan Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 26 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said: Probably a suggestion that'll anger some but a change/bugfix that would go along with the recent changes like switching shards not preventing a hound/worm attack. As the title says, void should be a void, something that uses the ocean's mechanics of falling into if you somehow end up walking onto it like say, being pushed by closing a gate at the edge of the map. Anyplayers that fall this way could drop all (or some) of their items the edge that borders the void. While this may seem like a bug fix just to annoy those that use the void walking glitch for convenience, I think it'd be a beneficial QoL change for following reasons: > Void could be used as an easy trash can to throw items into and have them destroyed. If a key item is thrown, it'd spawn on the opposite side of the void. > Flying and floating entities would have the advantage of traveling over the void. As such, ghost characters would be able to travel across maze-like corridors of the caves easily and lightbugs would be more viable as they wouldn't get stuck in corners all the time. Even bee mine would benefit with bees able to fly over the void. Bats would act more freely. I surmise that players that fall into the void would die and become spooky ghosts instantly without leaving a skeleton but if klei wants to be merciful they can make players "wash ashore with lowered max hp" just like the ocean. I like most of these suggestions. Except the light bugs, I don't want random light bugs hovering off into the void never to be seen again. However allowing ghosts to be able to move freely would be awesome. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, SinancoTheBest said: > Void could be used as an easy trash can to throw items into and have them destroyed. If a key item is thrown, it'd spawn on the opposite side of the void. this is already a thing that people do in endless servers all the time with a couple gates, but making items fall on their own if they happen to land too close sounds annoying as hell and anti qol in every way now I wouldn't mind ghosts being able to fly over the void since that's really annoying, but fixing void walking really benefits nobody and if they ever do it should only be after a rework to big tentacles/atrium imo Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPizzaMan Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Guille6785 said: this is already a thing that people do in endless servers all the time with a couple gates, but making items fall on their own if they happen to land too close sounds annoying as hell and anti qol in every way Imagine killing fuelweaver and because God forbid you were 2cm too close to the void the bone armour will have to be sent to the Shadow realm. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Princess Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Guille6785 said: but making items fall on their own if they happen to land too close sounds annoying as hell But this is already a thing, examples: Item/backpack that is pushed to the void when obelisk raises due to sanity change (for example, when you use nightmare amulet to lower obelisks, but have to drop backpack because of that); Splumonkey's loot that drops to the void if you kill it near the edge of landmass (with all stolen loot btw); Any action of dropping item from your inventory when item doesn't land directly under your feet, like dropping with full inventory or changing beefalo saddles (it can land to the void; I lost glossammer saddle the other day this way). That being said, I would prefer items bounce from the edge unless they are put directly with cursor into the void. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinancoTheBest Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 39 minutes ago, Guille6785 said: this is already a thing that people do in endless servers all the time with a couple gates, but making items fall on their own if they happen to land too close sounds annoying as hell and anti qol in every way They wouldn't fall on their own as a result of a slight breeze same as the ocean, you can't simply push an object on the ground to sea or walk onto it by accident, there are invisible railings at play. The only thing to make an item voluntarily fall down would be to hover it over the void and follow through with the drop command. Items that appear too close to void already fall into the void like splumonkey loot or even ancient guardian horn, and that does deserve a fix like newly appearing items bouncing back from the invisible railing. I don't think this change would make items more likely to fall, it just alters the interaction of flying mobs and characters glitching into the void to bypass sections of the caves. I find the current arrangement much more problematic as dying in the atrium means your ghost is trapped inside and you are dependant on someone else coming to atrium to your rescue unless you have a meat effigy in the caves Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I want the "void" to act like walls. It's supposed to be walls but the graphics are omit since people didn't like how it looked with walls. Don't think players should be able to climb around inside them, or attack over them, or be attacked over them, or do anything that would act as if it's not a wall. I'm indifferent on whether or not you should be able to teleport through them. The precedent is set that you can teleport through objects (e.g. statues, craftables walls) but also that you can't teleport where you can't see (if I remember right darkness stops it but I don't teleport a lot so I could be misremembering). Could go either way. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodyRandom Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Cheggf said: I want the "void" to act like walls. It's supposed to be walls but the graphics are omit since people didn't like how it looked with walls. Don't think players should be able to climb around inside them, or attack over them, or be attacked over them, or do anything that would act as if it's not a wall. I agree with this. Ranged creatures should be impended from attacking over the void, items dropped from mobs should not fall into the void, and because Ghosts can float through anything they should be able to float through the void. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dish-order man Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 In my opinion, cave, should be a hollow space formed by the erosion of wind or water year by year. In DST, it is very likely that these spaces were gradually eroded by water and excavated by the Ancient. Therefore, there should be no voids at all when you are walking in a cave. As far as I know, the boundary of cave's early design is wall. I think we can compromise with aesthetics, because this could make players feel less oppressed (due to small space) and makes the game widgets more acceptable. Changing the wall to void doesn't actually contribute much to the gameplay neither, causing glowworms stuck in corners, rooks dashing into the void, hatches and bats that can't get through the corner anyway. But anyway, you can't "walk" inside a rock (unless you're a mole). This is an unsolved DST problem for a long time, and I very much wish it wasn't "working as intended", but for now, it does. For me it's not that much of a priority to fix, I think klei should have their own plan, maybe we can see it fixed with the cave ecology adjusted, just like that due to the arrival of the Hamlet street lights , we got a fix for the ever-bright lantern. Klei sometimes handed some long-standing bug-like perks back to fans of these gameplays in a more reasonable way, which I believe they can do in the future. (By the way, I'm very much looking forward to the cave river, which is very likely the maker of the cave space By by the way, the AG in the beta is very likely to rush into the void if the players attack him from the void, seems that his weight is set too light. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakhnish Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 8 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said: I surmise that players that fall into the void would die and become spooky ghosts instantly without leaving a skeleton but if klei wants to be merciful they can make players "wash ashore with lowered max hp" just like the ocean. I'm all for void walking to be a thing of the past, but definitely not in the way you are suggesting it since accidental void walks do occur. Strictly Unprofessional had a mod in the past that's prevented void walking as part of their server policy. All it did was auto-warp the player to the closest land tile if they were in the void (ie back to where you were). I could see Klei doing that if they wanted to patch it, but I don't think they do. I am for items not falling into the void though. It does get annoying losing nightmare fuel to a drowning void because the nightmare decided to die on the edge of the tile. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guille6785 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Pig Princess said: But this is already a thing obviously killing mobs at the edge can make you lose the drops, the OP just made it sound like any items dropped near the void should stop bouncing back or something which was kind of unclear Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
. . . Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 It would NEED to be toggleable in worldgen, I don't want the several mods I use all the time that utilize the void to do very cool stuff to be permanently broken! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I’ve wanted them to redesign this into lava pits for a long long time.. muwhahaha Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinancoTheBest Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said: lava pits 10 hours ago, Cheggf said: I want the "void" to act like walls. It's supposed to be walls but the graphics are omit since people didn't like how it looked with walls. Lava pits, toxic sulphur pits, damp underground water pits, bottomless spike pits... whatever, I just can't accept the excuse that they are supposed to be walls but made to look like pits when they clearly are pits. It shouldn't matter if pits were picked over cave walls because walls were found too claustrophobic. The design choice was made and pits should act like pits where flying entities can float over and players can't just walk over. I believe it's due time caves get their own Turn of Tides sort of update that changes the entire way these placeholder invisible walls are interacted with, it'd be a good idea for either one of the Setting the Stage Content Updates or the upcoming QoLs. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheggf Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said: Lava pits, toxic sulphur pits, damp underground water pits, bottomless spike pits... whatever, I just can't accept the excuse that they are supposed to be walls but made to look like pits when they clearly are pits. It shouldn't matter if pits were picked over cave walls because walls were found too claustrophobic. The design choice was made and pits should act like pits where flying entities can float over and players can't just walk over. I believe it's due time caves get their own Turn of Tides sort of update that changes the entire way these placeholder invisible walls are interacted with, it'd be a good idea for either one of the Setting the Stage Content Updates or the upcoming QoLs. Wanda was made unable to attack over them and nothing can fly over them giving credence to them being walls. I do agree that they don't look at all like walls, though, and I bet the vast majority of players don't even know they're supposed to be walls since you'd either have had to play about 10 billion years ago when they were or be interested in the history of the game. Honestly while I'm playing since they look like pits instead of walls that's how I usually see them, too... Would be cool to have a cave update to make them act like walls and change the graphics to look like a wall that's being cut off to let you see better instead of clearly a hole in the ground that you use a history lesson to fill in the blanks. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 9 hours ago, lakhnish said: All it did was auto-warp the player to the closest land tile if they were in the void (ie back to where you were). ...actually, that's a pretty darn elegant way of handling it. Use the preexisting detector for 'drowning' prefabs on the ocean/void, swap the drown action with a free variant of the Rescue command...done. In effect, moving prefabs like items, players and mobs just get nudged back if they somehow clip through the terrain. And it shouldn't break anything if nothing is changed but the triggered action... That could actually be a great solution. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 eh i don't see much reason to fix void walking but a trash can of the void could be nice if implemented correctly Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinancoTheBest Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Dextops said: eh i don't see much reason to fix void walking One can argue that the mere knowledge that any part of the cave navigation can be skipped with such an easy method ruins the experience, the intended game design of traversing the biomes and instills the sense that they are a fool for not using it to players that refuse to cheat are reasons enough to fix void walking. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 i wish they add a creepy underground sea/lake maybe with the water leaking from the moon collision seen in the grotto cinematic Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 hours ago, SinancoTheBest said: One can argue that the mere knowledge that any part of the cave navigation can be skipped with such an easy method ruins the experience, the intended game design of traversing the biomes and instills the sense that they are a fool for not using it to players that refuse to cheat are reasons enough to fix void walking. I disagree. The reason for skipping void walking is lack of fast travel points because giant tentacles are annoying to kill and the caves is a monotonous boring place except for like 3 biomes. If you are going to fix a cheaty solution to a problem you should at least fix the problem of why people are choosing to void walk anyway Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1547889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonz Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Underground ocean update maybe Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1548466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetulantPansy Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 On 3/13/2022 at 10:16 AM, Dextops said: I disagree. The reason for skipping void walking is lack of fast travel points because giant tentacles are annoying to kill and the caves is a monotonous boring place except for like 3 biomes. If you are going to fix a cheaty solution to a problem you should at least fix the problem of why people are choosing to void walk anyway Well... the afw quest line isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. It's not just the boss fight that's hard. Everything leading up to it (including walking through the mini labyrinth) is difficult too. Worst experience of mine with the void is when I died close to the void (in labyrinth) and wanted to find a life amulet I had on me. When i haunted other items in an attempt to find the amulet, some of those items went into the void and just disappeared. Very bad! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1548529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 6 hours ago, PetulantPansy said: Well... the afw quest line isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. It's not just the boss fight that's hard. Everything leading up to it (including walking through the mini labyrinth) is difficult too. Worst experience of mine with the void is when I died close to the void (in labyrinth) and wanted to find a life amulet I had on me. When i haunted other items in an attempt to find the amulet, some of those items went into the void and just disappeared. Very bad! that is not what i meant in the slightest. It is not because it is hard it is because caves themselves are boring and monotonous and tentipillars are a pain in the ass to kill Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1548698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetulantPansy Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Dextops said: that is not what i meant in the slightest. It is not because it is hard it is because caves themselves are boring and monotonous and tentipillars are a pain in the ass to kill People void walk because: 1. it's safer 2. it's faster. Making the biomes in between more "interesting" won't change either of those things (ie. they're still going to void walk because it's safer and/or faster). Tentapillars aren't bad at all. If we make all small mobs in the game killable in 5 hits with minimal resistance, then how is the game even challenging anymore? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1548771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextops Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Just now, PetulantPansy said: People void walk because: 1. it's safer 2. it's faster. Making the biomes in between more "interesting" won't change either of those things (ie. they're still going to void walk because it's safer and/or faster). Tentapillars aren't bad at all. If we make all small mobs in the game killable in 5 hits with minimal resistance, then how is the game even challenging anymore? tentapillars are annoying because of the amount of tentacle spam that happens needing more gear than just a simple wormhole. Making your limited fast travel points a pain in the ass isn't challenging it is annoying. And of course people who want to play efficiently will do the more efficient option if you don't want to do that it is your choice there isn't much point in limiting something for everyone you can limit yourself. For the safer part, what is there to be afraid of? caves are empty anyway so no person does it for being safe Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/138190-in-the-caves-the-void-should-be-like-the-ocean-where-players-can-fall-and-throw-objects-into/#findComment-1548776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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