Wolfgang Support Fund

[Yuuko]

Alright here's the deal - there has been a LOT of chatter about Wolfgang since his refresh was first announced.  While there have been some great ideas put forth, there has also been a lot of back and forth on the forums, off hand jokes, trolls, etc that have probably polluted the good feedback Klei can use.  I didn't think this mattered much since Klei had been silent the whole time, and when they did respond they said they were moving on.  But then we got this:

Specifically

Quote

We've had a few meetings and have decided that we're definitely going to address some of your concerns. How we're going to address them and when is still being discussed. But - I wanted let you all know. 

So here is what I'd like to do to rectify all of the spam and refocus on what we might be able to do for Wolfgang.

In this thread we post once, and we post our best cohesive idea for what we think about the refresh and what would put Wolfgang where he should be in our eyes.  Don't reply or chatter.  If you want to change what you posted then please edit it rather than posting again.  If you want to respond to someone's idea use the reaction feedback, don't take the bait and get into any back and forth here.  Basically this can serve as an index of player suggestions and feedback (and counter attempts to troll.)  Try to keep 2 primary things in mind; 1) speed boost is likely gone.  If your suggestion / feedback is to return his speed boost do your best to justify it.  2) Assets were added for gyms and weights.  Lets try not to waste their investment by ditching these.  If your suggestion is to do away with these completely, or drastically change how they work, do your best to justify it.

Why post this in beta branch forum?  Wolfgang was released to beta branch before live so much of the feedback already lives here, but also this way it won't scroll away quickly so it can maintain visibility without needing to bump it.

That said here is my Wolfgang feedback and suggestions to start it off:

Spoiler

Wolfgang now has a lot of perks outside of combat, but they are currently all locked away in mighty.  This means the game play loop is probably intended to stay mighty all the time, yet there is nothing in his kit that supports you staying mighty all the time.  In fact, its never more efficient to stay in mighty than to gain from 0.  I believe this is counter to a good Strongman mentality of constant efforts to maximize strength.

What I think should change is Wolfgang should be more momentum focused.  You use weights to gain mighty, and lose mighty over time as we do now BUT active play negates the mighty drain.  Basically every time you perform a task that uses mighty, your meter is put on pause for a time.  In this way it can be more efficient to stay mighty provided you are playing active - also rewarding an active play style which would naturally be beneficial to the team chopping logs, mining stone, etc rather than old Wolfgang which could stay at the fridge eating everything without giving anything back.

This also answers any issues I've had with working out being a tax on time.  Standing still to work out when I've been playing less actively and am getting ready to go into a fight or work a lot makes sense.  Having my fight or harvest interrupted by needing to work out does not...  Its a bad feeling to have to stop doing something good, losing valuable time just to watch an animation loop.  It also makes you question efficiency of time - did you actually save time when you count the time pumping weights against the actual swings of a tool / weapon you saved?  Questionable...  With this system its pretty much guaranteed.

I believe this change will let players feel better while playing Wolfgang as they'll be able to be the mighty strongman they want to play for more time without breaking the enjoyment with idle time.  It will also allow player skill to shine through as maintaining mighty would now be a question of what you do over time, rather than time alone.

The rest of his refresh I think is working well as is - except as an off note - rowing speed.  He gains a higher momentum boost from rowing BUT has the same top speed as everyone else.  I think it would mean a lot if he got a higher top speed when rowing.  In fact, for all of the boating I've been doing recently, this change alone would make a HUGE difference.

So, what's your best Wolfgang touch up?

[Dextops]

i really want a general reason to stay as wolfgang outside of boss fights his other side perks are easily outclassed and boss fights aren't constantly happening and with you mostly wanting to remain wimpy for a lot of the time to ignore the meter you will usually have to run away from small skirmishes to get mighty and then actually kill them which can end up being solo and i'd like for him to have an actually good downside and more to his combat because as of now he is just a regular character when it comes to combat

[Cheggf]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:18 PM, Cheggf said:

I love the Klei friendly version of that you've got.

Spitball idea: Wolfgang can walk with his dumbbells, maybe move each of the dumbbells up a tier so gold is tied with thulecite and stone doesn't suck, give thulecite a new ability where walking while pumping gives walking cane speed. Wouldn't make him "faster" than anyone else, would give the thulecite dumbbell a neat little shadow magic perk, would let him lift on the go without slowing down compared to a cane but at a greater cost, and while it would be a far far weaker form of speed than his old speed and many sacrifices would be made compared to it it would still allow an experienced player capable of rushing magic to get a bit of speed since he can get something like a cane early.

The speed wouldn't help in combat and after day 20 wouldn't make him any faster than anyone else and would just be for lifting on the go, I think it's a nice compromise. Keep in mind all the time lost from rushing magic and gathering the materials to make it, too. And how Wormwood gets a permanent speed bonus for free that actually stacks.

It also doesn't go against the sacred texts of "if anything he should be slower when mighty" since it's shadow magic instead of might that boosts him.

I also think everything before the 1% chance to instagib in this joke comment is a good idea. A single one wouldn't help too much but picking several would. Adding all of them would be a bit overkill.

On 2/3/2022 at 3:25 PM, Cheggf said:

I think mightiness should drain slower. And heavy things like marble armor and piggybacks make it drain slower. And using your arms (fight, chop, mine, smash) restore might. And he gets a 20% speed boost when mighty. And he gains mightiness from dumbbells faster. And he can move while lifting dumbbells. And throwing dumbbells takes less durability off. And his boats can actually go faster. And his 1% chance to instantly finish a task also applies to the FIGHT action. And he has a larger inventory. And he has a damage resistance. And his attacks cleave. And he has dibs on mid lane (or else he will feed). And he has 3.2% more hp scaling. And minions count as allies for his sanity perk. And he does bonus damage against towers.

Then I'll play him again.

And the planted gym minigame is too boring with how easy it is. Would be better if it moved faster and had a very small super score in the center that's always better than whatever the score area it's overlapping is.

It's also weird how he's still so linked to food but in strange and unintuitive ways.

Edit: If I remember right he goes up and down at the same thresholds, too, whereas before there was leeway. It's even more important for leeway now that you lift weights to go up instead of just eat food. Making him derank at 70 and 20 would be nice.

[Toroic]

I’ve basically already said my piece in a thread, but I’ll restate briefly:

1) Make mighty wolf have a faster rowing top speed

2) Improve golden dumbell to half gembell mightiness gain qwhile mighty, double toss damage for all dumbells, and reduce toss durability loss to the same as pumping so throwing is not massively inefficient like it is now.

3) Reduce mightiness loss when over 75% hunger so mighty form can last 8 minutes.

Wolfgang got some fun abilities and I like the consistent double damage, but he’s way too dependent on gembell because the other dumbells aren’t worth making or using which makes him feel chained to his base or have to build gyms all over.

Wolf went from a “win more/lose more” character who had a distinct and powerful advantage state and a distinct and weak disadvantage state, to mighty being powerful but tedious and wimpy becoming weak but convenient.

Given what Warly, Wendy, Wanda can do in terms of damage output Wolf’s damage is no longer unique and his utility does not outweigh the tedium.

Exploring as Wolf without gembell is super annoying unless you just commit to being wimpy the whole time, and unless you have a gym nearby getting mighty before a hound wave can be a challenge.

The problem with this is you’re punished for not being mighty because *all* Wolf’s perks are locked behind mighty, and also punished for being mighty because the only good options for maintaining it are either a static structure or an item that requires a steady supply of purple gems.

Golden dumbbell has no mechanical purpose, and no one ever crafts stone dumbells either.

Wolf’s not weak in the sense that he can’t accomplish mechanically things easier, but he’s so awkward with so many interruptions to the gameplay loop you wonder if it’s worth the effort.

[SecretPizzaMan]

Remember no toxicity or anything and no pointless arguing, let people say their piece and let that be the end of it.

I'd like to start out and say that current Wolfgang is salvageable, just a few number changes like increased durability of all dumbbells when used for attacking, throwing or increased effectiveness of gold dumbbells in gaining mightyness in the mighty form. Maybe the potato sack could be better utilized? Maybe a food storage compartment that only Wolfgang can use? And only stores vegetables and fruits. Also the problem with being able to carry stuff like piggyback and marble suit with no penalty is that it only applies in mighty, maybe make it they reduce mighty drain but increase hunger consumption?

[Owlrust]

A few ideas I'd like to throw out there:

• Let Wolfgang restore a little bit of might every hit in battle. Nothing big, just enough to maintain and increase his might gradually. Wigfrid gains health and sanity per hit, so this isn't too foreign of a concept.
• Increase the threshold of the might meter that Wolfgang stays mighty. Right now mighty only lasts for 25 of the meter, whereas wimpy and normal last for 25 and 50 respectively. Technically there's no reason the meter NEEDS to max out at 100, so an increase of 10 or 25 to mighty form could be possible.
• Addressing the "changing forms" aspect while fighting, so you don't take every hit imaginable because you went back down to normal Wolfgang, or up to mighty Wolfgang.
• Let normal Wolfgang deal 50% increased damage by default (he is supposed to be stronger than the average survivor by default, no?), as well as allow the benefits of no speed reduction on wearing marble suits and piggybacks for normal Wolfgang as well.

[Cloakingsumo198]

The ability to use dumbbells on top of beefalos.

The ability to move while using dumbbells.

Tweaked numbers to dumbbell gains, durability.

Tweaked tossing speed on dumbbells and durability loss from tossing.

A speed increase to carrying heavy items or a change to him carrying it in his hands.

An increase to max top speed while rowing in mighty form

More dumbbells that involve the other materials. Marble, moon glass, thul, etc whichever.

Perhaps a change to the max mighty cap like Owlrus suggested but at like 200 or switching at what points wolf changes form.

Other ways to interact with Wolfgang's mighty meter aside from working out.

More ways to workout, maybe using the marble heads but maybe that's it

Reasons to be in different forms and then ways to power down if added.

A unique sanity mechanic or maybe something akin to Walter's downside.

I just kinda spit balled these ideas. My brain is fried from even trying to remember what I said before.

Not all of them together should be added but I wanted to say what could have been and to just add ideas.

[Mike23Ua]

Basically that along with a few other things people had been suggesting like being able to move while pumping dumbbells I don’t feel like he needs a complete Re-Rework just a few tweaks.. and more to do while Average/Mighty then just hit stuff harder.

Average Wolfgang is still stronger then all the other survivors.. so let’s make it useful (again outside of just fighting)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i think wolfgang should get changes to make it more fun, i will be disappointed if they just give another buff that wont change what people is hating about the rework. He doesnt need more power but fun mechanics (the thing people asked before the refresh, just fun stuff)

my poor ideas based on my experience playing the refreshed version for over 400days. Not gamechaning ideas but i think that would help a little to make it funnier

- Make the gym minigame funnier, right now the speed is for babies. Im not suggesting to make it so hard but atleast something that make you pay attention

- Throwing dumbells dont consume that high ammount of durability. This perk isnt that good anyways but right now is completely useless. Is literally changing a number in a code line. Also allow us to use them as a melee weapon with F (or equivalend in console) and throwing it with right click (maybe for console lock and atack?), this last one doesnt matter but would help those people who don't like to pump in the middle fight (i like it but i get that some people might not enjoy it)

- make rock and gold dumbbells useful. People are saying that they hate stand still and these just make it worst plus only affect noobs and servees filled with players. There isnt s good reason to make them this way because an experience player with a regular ammount of resources avaraible will ignore them and rush magic tier 1+gem bell

- Maybe being able to walk with them raising your mightiness so you can gather resources while taking care of the meter instead of afk extreme gameplay

- Heavy equipment should stop or reduce the mighty drain, it will incentive using marble armor, piggyback or icecube

- about the speed of the boat... it would be cool to make it actually faster. Maybe this wasnt done because of how aerodynamic work irl when there is a limit of the speed based on the resistance of the boat against the water but idk if being realistic should be more important than being effective

- wimpy form should have less hp for having his mechanic of "healing more when wimpy" and less hunger drain, maybe <x1 hunger drain (wimpy = no muscles eating calories) so we can have a reason to be in wimpy outside of "i dont wanna work out"

- more dumbells with different effects would be cool and add deepness to his gameplay. Not a priority but is bland to only use gembells and the gym

- maybe adding the same minigame from the gym to dumbells? irl you need to focus on performing each movement in a correct way to improve the training so it would make sense plus it wont be an afk mechanic

[Hornete]

6 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

More dumbbells that involve the other materials. Marble, moon glass, thul, etc whichever

Marble and Moonrock... please... Its THE super dense and heavy material in DS/T lore and they didnt make a dumbbell for it...

Spoiler

Thematically despise the Gembell when it doesnt even do anything magical(Klei has a weird obsession with putting purple gems in everything, and I get it, they're the most farmable gem, but damn moonrock is sitting right there : ()

 

[mr. brj]

I agree with Wolfgang getting changes that make him fun before anything else, and the biggest obstacle that stands in the way is the maintenance of the mighty meter. Here is how I would fix that:

 

1) Slightly tweak the duration of Wolfgang's forms, such that the Mighty form lasts a little bit over a day (10 minutes maybe?) if Wolfgang manages to stay above 185 hunger.

2) Let Wolfgang use his dumbbells as a melee weapon with the same attack speed as other weapons in order to gain mightiness (I know this would require extra animation, but a horizontal swing animation instead of the punching/vertical swing animation would be soooo fitting to this), OR let Wolfgang gain mightiness from attacking.

3) Give some utility to the wimpy and/or regular form, like wimpy Wolfgang benifitting more from healing restoration, or regular form having a damage bonus (even a linear damage bonus in regular form tied to the mighty meter would be a nice touch, something like 10% to 50%).

4) Let Wolfgang carrry piggybacks (and maybe other heavy objects?) in regular form the same way he does in mighty form.

 

There are also some stuff I want to point out. I would appreciate it a lot if the developers at least considered the following ideas. Hiding mainly because they are extra suggestions that I think is worth mentioning, especially the suggestion 8):

Spoiler

5) Instead of a larger collision box, mighty Wolfgang apparently has a negative speed debuff to neutralize the extra walking speed that comes from scaling, so disregard the arguments for my original suggestion (still accessible in the spoiler below). Many thanks to Hornete for providing me with the exact details, and I guess I should practice my hound wave kiting a bit more frequently:D

Spoiler

 

The last time I played Wolfgang, his collision box in mighty form was larger than the other characters. I don't know if this was fixed, but this resulted in Wolfgang being slightly harder to kite with, (EDIT:) barely noticable in 1v1 or 1v2 situations, but more noticable when kiting large hound waves and splumonkey trains. There even was a bug report with a video, where a mighty Wolfgang couldn't jump to a boat from a certain distance, but could when he went back to the regular form, most probably because of the larger hitbox. (:EDIT)

Now I know that the speed boost is not coming back and the easy fix to the problem would be to reduce his hitbox. Still, I wanted to ask the team to at least consider a minimal amount of boost in speed, enough to compensate for the kiting but not enough to land an extra hit for mobs that allow you to land between 2 to 6 hits (Ancient Guardian and Dragonfly being the primary examples here). I don't know how much Wolfgang increases in size when in mighty form, so I can't provide you with the math right now, but if someone sends me the exact details on the scaling (privately of course, no need to make off-topic posts here), I will gladly edit my calculations in.

 

 

6) The maximum rowing speed, as many have already stated, is the same for Wolfgang as it is for other characters. It would feel like an actual perk if Wolfgang could actually travel faster with boats. This could also potentially enable kiting pearlless Crab King geysers some very unique gameplay if Wolfgang got the right amount of rowing efficiency.

7) The durability of the gembell feels off compared to the price of its recipe. Although a viable solution, I don't think being able to refuel the gembell is thematically fitting. But if the gembell required 2 thulecite fragments instead of 2 cutstones, and had something like an additional 50% durability, I believe it would be less of a resource sink and would feel more like "expensive but worth it" compared to "expensive but what else can I do". Adding a tier 4 dumbell made of moonrock/thulecite/nightmare fuel could also balance out the current recipe of the gembell.

8) This is the musicologist me speaking. Wolfgang's voice feels muffled when he is changing forms, especially when going mighty. The jingle while changing the forms is already rich in timbre and higher-pitched, and especially if you are playing without headphones, the lower-pitched, already muffled Wolfgang voice will reach the player much less efficiently compared to the jingle, mainly because computer speakers suck. On the other hand, making Wolfgang's voice a little bit louder than the jingle will not muffle the jingle at all even when wearing headphones, and the player will hear both sounds equally well. Plus I'm sure Wolfgang is shouting louder when he says "I AM MIGHTY!" compared to "No! Wolfgang must get stronger!", so I believe it is more fitting if the player primarily hears Wolfgang's voice in that case.

9) Please let Wolfgang self-click while equipping a dumbbell to be able to practice.

Edit: The OP specifically asked for no replies and chatters. Feel free to PM me if you want to point out stuff that you find to be incorrect/irrelevant, I am honest enough to edit them out if you prove me wrong, and will have no hard feelings against anyone for doing that:)

[Hornete]

8 minutes ago, mr. brj said:

5) The last time I played Wolfgang, his collision box in mighty form was larger than the other characters. I don't know if this was fixed, but this resulted in Wolfgang being slightly harder to kite with.

I think you've got a case of placebo, because this isnt a thing, nor wasnt ever a thing in past patches.

[sudoku]

Perks help shape things up and make you think and make gameplay decisions you might not have made if you were playing other characters. Wolf on the other hand simply centers around you gaining a stat increase, and furthermore the way you get the stat increase leaves alot to be desired in the gameplay department. This is why Wolf is boring, his main perk isnt very dynamic and then additionally the way you obtain it is also very artificial gameplay-wise.

Since they have already decided not to flesh out his boring 2x damage modifier, they need to at least flesh out the working out mechanic to involve more gameplay mechanics so that he has a rewarding gameplay loop.

[Atkvin]

Mightiness, working out, Gyms:

Mightiness should be gained passively when dumbbells are held in the inventory - at the cost of inventory slots and in the case of Gembells, a movement speed penalty when carried by wimpy Wolfgang and halved for regular Wolfgang. (This maintains mightiness as a stat that players still need to take time to 'power up', but can now do so while moving about to reduce time taken standing still to workout, which remains the faster alternative. Gembells slowing Wolfgang's weaker forms down makes it a less clear cut choice for just passively carrying around with this new passive gain)

Mightiness decrease will be paused while fighting, woodcutting, mining, or rowing, and when wearing Piggyback or Marble Armor (speed penalty is now halved in normal form), encouraging active contribution and making that perk less exclusive to mighty form - however, whenever Wolfgang is in darkness, attacked by Charlie or shadow creatures, his mightiness will now be quickly and directly drained.

Gyms should be integrated into bases and made into more functionally (*cough* and aesthetically hopefully) desirable structures in a base through a variety of upgrades in Wolf's crafting tab, granting new little benefits like producing heat and light or refueling flingomatics and Winona's generators in a wide radius while the Gym is used by Wolfgang. Perhaps lategame a Wolfgang shadow minion could even be used to run Gyms and power their upgrades more consistently.

Making forms more interesting:

Hunger loss decreases as Wolf becomes less mighty and needs less food to maintain his bulk, slowing down to half the normal rate of a survivor when Wimpy. This makes Wolf's lesser forms naturally more food-efficient and favorable at rest without encouraging endless binging.

Wolfgang's MAX sanity now reduces by half when he becomes mighty - as an unnaturally strong state that is granted by the constant or in lore, Maxwell's shadow magic, it makes sense that it has an effect on the strongman's psyche. Max sanity returns to normal upon Wolf reverting to normal form, but he will not be refunded any lost sanity. Alongside shadow creature damage decreasing his mightiness now, draining and limiting half of Wolf's sanity whenever be becomes mighty will hopefully make insanity a slightly more precarious downside to Wolfgang while he is mighty.

(Wimpy and regular forms feel little more than boring / punishment forms vestigial to Wolfgang after his rework. Taking a page from Wanda's design, by giving these other forms a desirable perk to have at rest outside of combat, and a more prominent drawback to the greatness of mighty form that will be more consistently harassed and drained by shadows while working, players feel less pressured to maintain and access mightiness at all times, having a time and place for the other forms while they work and gain mightiness gradually and passively)

Throwing Dumbbells:

Each of Wolf's dumbbells now have different effects when thrown, and require Wolfgang to be stronger to throw it the heavier the dumbbell is:

• Stone dumbbells can be thrown by wimpy Wolf to draw out moles and rabbits from their burrows, and is light enough to dislodge resources like grass, twigs and berries from their plants in the aoe range of a thrown dumbbell without uprooting them.
• Gold dumbbells can be thrown by normal Wolf to distract/lure most non-shadow creatures to it, and with its weight resets any toothtraps in the aoe range when thrown!
• Purple dumbbells can only be thrown by mighty Wolf to summon a Wolfgang shadow minion that will hunt any creatures the aoe hits (only one at a time) or go after insane players if nothing is hit. Purple dumbbells may also cause earthquakes if thrown underground, allowing players to farm rocks and its basic component gems more reliably

Spoiler

unremovable spoiler on mobile grrr

that's all punks

[PetulantPansy]

1. Maybe dial back the sanity penalty a little. His sanity penalty makes it harder for newer players to get a hang of him

2. I get that you burn more calories when working out but the excess hunger drain while working out is a bit annoying

3. Others have already said it but increase the durability of some of the dumbbells

4. Reduce durability loss when using dumbbell as a weapon. It's a cool concept but currently it's quite expensive. I guess it at least discourages people from throwing it at other ppl lol. 

 

I'll also toss in a wild card. Instead of making wimpy form all punishment, can we give him some kind of a perk or 2 when he's wimpy? That would make his game play more dynamic. 

[Pe Dabliu]

I just want to see a walking cane+dumbbell hybrid that keeps your current mightyness level, and only gives the full speed if you're mighty. Or at least to let wofk gain/maintain mightyness by just waking while holding the dumbbells

[De_Gatherer]

Going forward it seems that the dumbbell throwing mechanic is staying, that being said I’ve yet to fully utilize this feature in game as I have found it to be quite useless. The percentage taken to durability is too much and the damage dealt with it is too little. On top of this you still have to go and pick up the thing making this feature impractical. I play on console so the throwing range is limited, making this mechanic far worse than it needs to be. I’d like to see this tossing quirk improved on.

Having played the reworked Wolfgang on console for some time now I find myself agreeing with a lot of the suggestions being thrown out in here. A few more changes that I’d like to put forward here would be to give Wimpy Wolfgang some more utility. During gameplay I find myself actively avoiding wimpy form as there are no incentives to be in it. Perhaps a small increase to his speed or an increase to healing would incentivize me otherwise. Wimpy Wolfgang deserves a bit of love.

One of my biggest gripes about this update is that when a dumbbell is equipped I have to scroll over to the hand slot and press on the d-pad to begin the lifting animation. This is most likely an issue for those of us who play using a controller and not keyboard and mouse. I believe lifting should be automatic. As soon a dumbbell is equipped in the hand slot the animation should begin and we shouldn’t have to scroll at all. I feel This small change would make the lifting mechanic feel more fluid for those who play with a controller.

[Astraia]

I just want Wolfgang's speed back; I know they said they're never going to add his speed back so it's sad 

Also maybe adjust Wolfgang's sanity loss at nighttime, I find it draining drastically and it bugs me to bits

[Notecja]

At this point I think I rather upvote, than add anything new. Simply because not every experience is equal, and mine is mostly as having Wolfgang in team... and waiting for him to be mighty before fight.
+ Less losing mightiness in fight or keeping/gaining it, as some bosses are not giving a break to just stand and pump dumbbells.
+ Keeping mightiness when chopping, mining...
+ More effective golden dumbbell.
+ I just read and like an idea to give normal Wolfgang a little more strenght too - he is a strongman anyway and he could be at least strong as Wigfrid.
+ More dumbbells that involve the other materials

[LiamAshvinn001]

Maybe being at Wimpy form boosts speed and decrease hunger drain?

[SecretPizzaMan]

3 hours ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

Maybe being at Wimpy form boosts speed and decrease hunger drain?

The problem with that is that the way Wolfgang is designed right now makes wimpy the default state and therefore means there is no upkeep in order to keep the speed, it would also allow you to move faster then default when wearing a marble suit or piggyback.

[Lurdiak]

I'm quite new to both Don't Starve and Don't Starve together, so keep in mind all my comments here are from the point of view of a newer player, not some experienced one who has rushed the ruins many times... or at all. When I started playing DST, the Wolfgang refresh had already gone through, but I did get to play 'classic' Wolfgang in Don't Starve, before I decided the game would be loads more fun with multiplayer.

I personally think that for the most part, the rework is great. I absolutely love that Wolfgang now no longer suffers speed penalties from Marble armor, this makes him the most effective boss killer in the game. Being able to lug huge things around with ease (and having that pause mightiness drain!) is a great utility feature as well. And making his might give him benefits when resource gathering and resisting temperature is also a swell touch, as is stabilizing his stat changes between forms so that the bonuses aren't constantly dwindling. I also think having to pump iron to gain the mightiness is a great mechanic. I can totally understand why expert players who are used to zipping around the map with a speed-boosted Wolfgang find it utterly frustrating that he now not only moves slower but has to periodically stop and stand still for a bit to keep his muscle mass, but I view it from the point of view of choices.

Classic Wolfgang offered very few choices. There was almost never a good reason not to keep him mighty, unless you were low on food, which is quite unlikely for a seasoned player playing such a powerful character. For exploration, resource gathering, combat, Mighty Wolfgang was preferred at all times, with only an increased hunger drain as a penalty. And if you happened to run out of food, well, that wasn't really a choice you were making, was it? Certainly, there were times where not bothering to max out your might was worth it to conserve food longer, but that's a decision that didn't come up very often.

Now it's different. Depending on your plan for each day, you have to weigh the cost/benefit of taking the time (and/or paying the hunger tax if using the gym) of pumping up to get the benefits of might. If you're just going to be exploring, it's almost certainly not worth it. If you're resource gathering, it might be, or it might not be, depending on how far it is and how much of it you/'re doing (maybe recruiting pigs to chop trees would be a better use of those meats you were planning to feed Wolfgang after his workout?). And if you're going to be fighting, it's definitely worth it, but if you don't have good battle gear it might be worth kiting the mobs instead of tanking them, which lessens the need for might still. And since might is still tied to hunger in some ways, how much food you have on hand still affects how you answer the "might or no might" question.

I do have some concerns though. The stated intent of the refresh was to improve on the strongman fantasy. In many ways, I think it does. Carrying huge things, wearing heavy items without penalty, being a great tank, gathering resources in one hit (sometimes), these are all things that make me think "Yes! Only Mighty Wolfgang can do this! I'm glad I spent the time pumping him up!", But as great as those are, there might be too few of them for more experienced players' liking, considering that wolfgang's hunger and sanity drains in regular gameplay cycles are quite high and that his need to stop and pump up is time consuming even at its most optimized. People might get frustrated with how much of their game time is spent "managing" Wolfgang instead of just doing what they want to be doing. I think, rather than just overall buffing him like some people want, giving him more small situational bonuses would create for more emergent gameplay moments where people have that "Yes! This is Wolfgang!" feeling that I get at times.

One suggestion I've seen many times is to allow him to chuck heavy objects he carries. I think if this were made possible, and it did considerable damage based on weight (but was balanced by having a very slow animation with considerable recovery time), you could get very funny moments where Wolfgang, who was busy carrying a stone statue across the map, kills off a Deerclops his friends were fighting by landing a final crushing blow with a tossed statue. It wouldn't be a viable way to fight the deerclops straight on, but a very situational way to land one great blow against him. This mighty toss could also be used to destroy structures a bit faster than a hammer could, if one was moving base.

Maybe mighty Wolfgang could also (slowly, with a long animation) uproot bushes without the use of a shovel by tearing them out of the ground. Or even do it to trees, if such a thing weren't too game breaking. Just the kind of thing where other characters would need to go to a science machine and craft a tool to do it, but Wolfgang could do it "the old fashioned way" in a pinch. Again, not optimal, but emergent, and something that could make a difference in a team scenario. I'm sure there are even more unique, only situationally useful strongman things you could think of that would make Mighty Wolfgang more memorable and more of a team player.

While I absolutely love the utility of the dumbbell toss for killing rabbits and birds (love you, free morsels), I do agree with some others that it could maybe be made more effective. If nothing else, it should damage the dumbbell a bit less and count as a few pumps to either toss it or smack someone with it. And I think making the gem dumbbells hit a bit harder wouldn't be out of line either.

Lastly, while I absolutely love that having people around lowers the sanity drain penalty Wolfgang gets from night time and monsters (the game is called Don't Starve TOGETHER after all), I saw a feature in a recent Wolfgang mod that could be very fun to implement: Namely, having Wolfgang regain sanity if other players are near when he works out. Since he's a showman by nature and loves having an audience for his feats of strength, it only makes sense that he'd slowly recover some sanity the more people are in the "audience" while he pumps iron. This has the added bonus of making working out feel less like a waste of time forced by the mightiness meter. Now you're working on your sanity, too!

 

These are my suggestions, from the perspective of a newer player who mostly loves this rework, which I feel made the character more interesting and easy to understand for new players. Of the other suggestions listed here, I have to say I mostly favor the ones who suggest more situations where Mightiness drain is either slowed or stopped (having it drain slower in combat in particular seems only natural). I also think maybe giving Wimpy Wolfgang less hunger drain would be something interesting to consider, as right now Wolf is very food inefficient and there's little one can do to mitigate it other than never using the gym. I also agree that adding more ways to improve or expand the workout options would make that mechanic more engaging. As it stands, as soon as you've carved your first boss statues, you're set, with the gem dumbbell being a backup only if you're low on food. Having more ways to improve the gym and dumbbells would give Wolfgang more to do in the long term. Maybe Thulecite dumbbells? Or some kind of Moon-based weights he can load the gym with?

E: Maybe an improved gym could let you raise mightiness past the default limit, even.

 

E2: One last thing... I definitely don't think pumping iron should give you a speed boost if it becomes possible to do while walking, as some have suggested. Indeed I think if it ever becomes possible to use dumbbells on the go, it should give a speed penalty, if anything. Probably one that correlates with which form you're in, to reflect the difficulty Wolfgang has lifting the dumbbell, the mightier you are, the less it slows you. Wimpy Wolfgang would move almost as slow as someone carrying marble heads, regular Wolfgang would move at a noticeably breezier clip, and Mighty would only have a 5% speed penalty, or less. This would still give Wolfgang a bit more mobility while working out, since he wouldn't be standing completely still unless using the gym, meaning less wasted time (which is the big issue people have with Wolfgang's rework).

[reallychina]

So after klei ignored thousands of wolfgang rework feeback comments, you're still wasting time doing this? Really?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, reallychina said:

So after klei ignored thousands of wolfgang rework feeback comments, you're still wasting time doing this? Really?

[reallychina]

13 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Keep at it. Maybe start begging klei, that might work