Small psa for players with over 500 hours

[Copyafriend]

The game will never be difficult for you again, a boss might be hard rushing ruins might not be your specialty, you may tank dragonfly and klaus, but the game will never be the same difficult game again.

and thats okay. Even if they added a terraria esq hardmode after you killed fuelweaver and everything got way stronger and tougher, you know the fundamentals too well, it would be a literal speedbump to get over. Though it could be fun if they added lots of new items. If they randomized where everything is and made a drunk world where nothing spawns in its correct place etc etc etc, it still wouldn’t be hard. To be frank most of you could survive in a world with no berry bushes, no pig houses, and no carrots, by rushing ruins just to eat lichen. It wouldnt be that hard either, just annoying. 
there is almost no reason to add a significant bump in challenge. If added super early on itd just harass new players, if it was super late in, you’re already functionally immortal with 10 life giving amulets strewn about to compliment your meat effigy. Any deaths are a delay not a real threat. The game is based on knowledge and preparation is power, if you’ve played this long then more or less anything added or that will be added is already completely beatable, its just a matter of how long will it take to prep for said fight, and how many tries will it take. If they added a random enemy that spawns with 1000 health anytime you break a boulder, it will suprise old players probably twice at best, unless it happens so infrequently that they forget it happens. After that they’ll just expect rock monsters. If the rock monsters give something nice then it’s probably a net positive for the game, but if its just more food and the rocks i was gonna get anyway? Then in annoyed that my time is wasted, and this new challenge has done nothing but make me like the game that little bit less.

It’s important to keep that kind of stuff in mind: is it really good content? Does this addition make the game as a whole better? will people enjoy it? And the answer to a difficulty bump is probably no on most fronts. I like hard games a lot, but ive played dont starve across three platforms, im not going to freeze to death panicking about why my screen is icing over ever again. The game wont be hard again, and that’s unavoidable. 

[Mike23Ua]

I bought three dlc packs that effectively made me forget how to play the game- So I don’t understand the logic behind this post.

I knew how to block every attempted enemy punch, solve every riddle, and take out a room full of armed thugs without ever being noticed in the Arkham Franchise: Doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t warmly welcome a new entry into that franchise since the last one was in 2015..

DST has the chance to be like Minecraft, Fortnite, GTA Online- Games that don’t really need Sequels.. because they just keep updating it with new content that keeps the game exciting & fresh.

& If that’s the direction Klei wanted to take with DST I for one would be thankful (I’ve bought this game for like half my Xbox friends list by now… I wouldn’t want to buy a new version for the people I play with..)

Also: Apparently just changing consoles from PC to Xbox to PlayStation and coming sometime later this year: Nintendo switch as well doesn’t even carry over your skins and unlocked character progression.

Klei would have to be complete fools to abandon DST for a DST 2.. especially after how well received Wanda has been as many forummites say quote “the best dlc character ever” 

Imagine a DST 2 where your precious Wanda becomes like Walani, Wilbur, Woodlegs, Wilba, Wheeler and Wagstaff

(Aka not playable)

I highly doubt many people will want to “Backtreck” on that  

Yes pun fully intended.. but anyway my point is: I’ve bought three dlcs that go against your post OP, but I don’t think I’m ready to move on from DST to a DST 2 yet..

[Owlrust]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

The game will never be difficult for you again

I'm a Warly main. Try me.

[Auth]

I don't think anyone's really advocating for random """difficulty""" mechanics to be thrown in. Taking existing mechanics and just bumping up the numbers is famously lazy and terrible design. What I, and I think at least 2 other people want is for more mechanics, with their own depth to them, so there's more to prepare for, there's more to think about, a world that grows stronger not with existing things getting beefier, but with entirely new things that are manageable in their own ways getting added. Entirely new ideas and mechanics that the game had never seen before that point, but with patience in their development, and content that doesn't just directly feed back into itself with no overall benefit (see ocean content prior to waterlogged)

And I want this stuff to be spaced out. And manageable. I don't want it to be thrown on top of a pile of problems just to appear more difficult, like adding vargs to hound waves or something like that. I want something with real purpose, something you can reasonably expect and prepare for, with an overall benefit or an introduction to even more content later down the path if you continue (Imagine if killing something like the celestial champion or assembling a hard structure didn't just give you an item, but instead unlocked entire new regions of the world or progression!)

Yes, it would eventually get to a point where players know what to expect and can deal with it. But... isn't that the exact point already?

idk, im tired. I'll probably re-write this later

[BezKa]

Don't remind me. I'd love to get my brain wiped to have the learning experience all over again. 

[mr. brj]

Because of the title, I feel obliged to answer:D I do agree that it is unnecessary to add a significant bump to the challenge. Others have discussed this too, and in the end, additional minor challenges in the early game will only result in minor inconveniences that would annoy the hell out of everyone regardless of their skill level. The game is already getting new content every 3 months or so, which also bring new challenges without making it harder for newer players. That being said, there are certain areas in the game that feel unfinished, such as the ocean and the majority of the caves. I don't see how it would harm the experience for the newer players if the game added new challenges to those areas, such as updated biomes or additional content.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

fw, ruins, iron hulk, hamlets humid season, CC are good examples of why op is wrong

isnt the same to get used to something simple and easy like is surviving winter and other is learning about something complex and difficult, even if you learn how to easily overcome it you will still need to be focus and you will feel more rewarded

[autumnsbeast]

I have over 2000 hours, but I haven't done a Ruin Rush or half of the Late Game stuff 

[Majestix]

I have over 900h in DS (with all DLCs) and over 2000h in DST, and I still die occasionally when playing as Wanda; I still find early ruins rushing with Warly challenging; and the CC quest line more than satisfies my desire for late game content -- it's a crazy long quest line.

I am actually a bit sceptical of most peoples' claims that the game is too easy for them. I suspect that only a tiny fraction of the player base can reliably explore all the game content with some of the more challenging characters without dying. The one thing that has made this game much easier compared to the single player version is the rework of life giving amulets. If you want an unforgiving survival experience, pick one of the more challenging characters and set yourself the rule that as soon as you die, you lose the world. I know that some people can do that, but I suspect it's very few.

[HowlVoid]

You're forgetting that incentive plays a very crucial part when it comes to balancing difficulty.

Even once difficult content no longer is, the player will still want to interact with it if the rewards are worth it. You can't just lock meaningful rewards behind nothing or it will break the balance of the game. 

You can't just spawn random powerful enemies if the player isn't going to be justly rewarded for it. When difficulty is properly balanced around a reward that is meaningful than it can be justified. 

Take the ruins for example, even once you've conquered the difficulty of the ruins does that mean the ruins are just an annoyance? Hell no. The incentive of the ruins is so strong you can be compelled to rush it sooner and sooner. The difficulty increases along with the reward where you can rush it scienceless and have an amazing start. 

So is there a reason to have a bump in difficulty? Yeah, if there is going to be meaningful interactions. 

Crab King is a good example of difficulty for difficulties sake, that is not what most people want. Killing Crab King more than once is a waste of time.

[Copyafriend]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I bought three dlc packs that effectively made me forget how to play the game- So I don’t understand the logic behind this post.

& If that’s the direction Klei wanted to take with DST I for one would be thankful (I’ve bought this game for like half my Xbox friends list by now… I wouldn’t want to buy a new version for the people I play with..)

Klei would have to be complete fools to abandon DST for a DST 2.. especially after how well received Wanda has been as many forummites say quote “the best dlc character ever” 

Imagine a DST 2 where your precious Wanda

 

Yes pun fully intended.. but anyway my point is: I’ve bought three dlcs that go against your post OP, but I don’t think I’m ready to move on from DST to a DST 2 yet..

As have i, all three dlcs are amazing and i love them. Klei cant do the same thing for dont starve together though, those dlcs are different from the ground up, in rog there were giants and new seasons, it was basically dont starve plus. 
but in shipwrecked, something fundamental was taken, crumpled up, and thrown into a pit of lava: movement. Suddenly instead of walkint everywhere, you NEED boats, and you need to maintain and upgrade your boats, and on the water boats health WAS your health. And the seasons were widly different, flooding season actively removes your ability to prototype new things and cook and use your on land base instead of just raining. The windy season made exploration challenging and the dry season said “im not happy, enjoynfireballs” its a wildly different game from the very beginning to the very end and i love it dearly, but you cant apply that to dont starve without ripping out the floorboard and changing it at a very basic level. Like they could make the entire experience of together wildly different by requiring boats for exploration. Give the ocean a bunch of effects for each season and force the player to cross it semi regularly. But it would be a major shift in the core gameplay loop. They cant do that without ruining a bunch of peoples experience. You cant make dst into shipwrecked or hamlet. Honestly if you introduced a hamlet village somewhere in the sea, in sure plenty of people would use it… in year three when they actually start making boats and exploring the ocean. 
my over all point is, the dlcs can change the game from the ground up because each dlc is effectively a different dont starve game. They’re just in dlc format instead of being a scam.

 

also i never once mentioned dont starve two, nor did i say they should do something like that. Personally i think they are just planning on developing the one thing for awhile. 

 

(also i dont even play wanda tf)

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

You're forgetting that incentive plays a very crucial part when it comes to balancing difficulty.

No i am not, i do want the actual parts of the game that are hard to be hard to be hard. If they add things that is supposed to be hard content, i expect it to be challenging. I was saying there was no point in trying to make the entire game from start to finish hard again. Because it wouldn’t work for more experienced players. I specified that certain areas may be difficult, but my point was that the game as a whole, wont be difficult to veterans because they know what to expect, and you cant make changes major enough to throw veteran players without changing the base experience of the game. 

[JeezSorry]

this is when the * drumroll * addition of modification comes in!

 

Mods can make everything harder if you really wanted, but not all players play that way. And that's okay. 

[Mike23Ua]

26 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

As have i, all three dlcs are amazing and i love them. Klei cant do the same thing for dont starve together though, those dlcs are different from the ground up, in rog there were giants and new seasons, it was basically dont starve plus. 
but in shipwrecked, something fundamental was taken, crumpled up, and thrown into a pit of lava: movement. Suddenly instead of walkint everywhere, you NEED boats, and you need to maintain and upgrade your boats, and on the water boats health WAS your health. And the seasons were widly different, flooding season actively removes your ability to prototype new things and cook and use your on land base instead of just raining. The windy season made exploration challenging and the dry season said “im not happy, enjoynfireballs” its a wildly different game from the very beginning to the very end and i love it dearly, but you cant apply that to dont starve without ripping out the floorboard and changing it at a very basic level. Like they could make the entire experience of together wildly different by requiring boats for exploration. Give the ocean a bunch of effects for each season and force the player to cross it semi regularly. But it would be a major shift in the core gameplay loop. They cant do that without ruining a bunch of peoples experience. You cant make dst into shipwrecked or hamlet. Honestly if you introduced a hamlet village somewhere in the sea, in sure plenty of people would use it… in year three when they actually start making boats and exploring the ocean. 
my over all point is, the dlcs can change the game from the ground up because each dlc is effectively a different dont starve game. They’re just in dlc format instead of being a scam.

 

also i never once mentioned dont starve two, nor did i say they should do something like that. Personally i think they are just planning on developing the one thing for awhile. 

 

(also i dont even play wanda tf)

No i am not, i do want the actual parts of the game that n the d to be hard to be hard. If they add things that is supposed to be hard content, i expect it to be challenging. I was saying there was no point in trying to make the entire game from start to finish hard again. Because it wouldn’t work for more experienced players. I specified that certain areas may be difficult, but my point was that the game as a whole, wont be difficult to veterans because they know what to expect, and you cant make changes major enough to throw veteran players without changing the base experience of the game. 

Actually they can (and likely will) change the base game from the ground up, RWYS gardens is a good example: They removed the simple gardens of yester-year & replaced them with something more in-depth & rewarding for putting in effort.

Fortnite changes all the time, it’s not just a game a bunch of kids play.. Fortnite’s map gets massive changes, certain weapons get removed in favor of something else: 

looking back at the history of DS updates (the entire history dating all the way back to early DS Beta not just DST..) Klei fundamentally changes the gameplay ALOT over the years: Adding new content, modifying old content, breaking up gameplay loops: This isn’t new territory for “Klei Entertainment” it may be new Territory for some of the NEW COMERS to the franchise: But anyone who has been around to truly see how Klei operates and updates their games/content- knows that they like to often go back & “Reinvent the wheel”

While yes.. I can agree that this can be “over-whelming” to newer players: It also gives the game more content, more variety & overall more to see & do.

I mean have you watched the official Developer Update videos on their YouTube Channel?? 

Each of those videos showcases New Content/Changes to existing content that did NOT exist before that update.

Case in point: DS the single player game which has existed since like 2013 just has recently gotten a Free QoL update that allows you to tame Beefalo (they were never tameable in solo DS) 

Thats just an example of how much Klei likes to “Re-invent the Wheel” if people who are new to Klei Entertainments process of development are unfamiliar with that- then that’s probably only the costumers fault for not looking at previous games/updates Klei has churned out with their products..

But to say that Klei can’t massively alter DST is False.. they can, and HAVE been doing it not just with DST but all their games: and for many many years- here let’s all take a trip down Memory Lane  

https://m.youtube.com/c/kleient/videos
 

Scroll all the way to the first video from 9 years ago and watch all the way up to the most recent: Each of these videos shows off content that wasn’t added until these videos.. 

I absolutely LOVE watching these as a reminder to myself of just how much changes over the years.

[abrocator]

I technically fit in this category.  I’ve recently started a new solo world where I want to experience everything (basically beat every boss).  At the pace I’m going it will take at least 1000+ days since I play so “defensively” in order to avoid permanently dying.

[HowlVoid]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

No i am not, i do want the actual parts of the game that are hard to be hard to be hard. If they add things that is supposed to be hard content, i expect it to be challenging. I was saying there was no point in trying to make the entire game from start to finish hard again.

That doesn't seem to be what your post is about throughout the first half.

The first half of your post seems to be "We shouldn't add difficulty because at some point it won't matter anymore or currently doesn't matter". Then the other half of your post is about how newer players would be at a disadvantage if there was added difficulty in the early game. 

You made several point where you emphasized a "speed bump" being obsolete and it seems you hold this opinion for all points of the game. You clearly point out that this the case if it was added both early and late game, because late game "you can't die". 

Unless you have brain damage you're going to get better at something, that's a given, but that doesn't make difficulty obsolete. The devs shouldn't be scared of adding more challenging content because it impossible to challenge us, that's just nonsense. I also don't think you have a clear distinction on what artificial and none artificial difficulty is because all of your examples were bad (I don't mean that as an insult to you, they were just bad). 

Quote

Because it wouldn’t work for more experienced players. I specified that certain areas may be difficult, but my point was that the game as a whole, wont be difficult to veterans because they know what to expect, and you cant make changes major enough to throw veteran players without changing the base experience of the game. 

You can be more prepared for difficult content but that doesn't mean it isn't welcomed. Again, seems to me you're mostly stating the obvious; if you keep practicing something you will get better at it. That's just how things are but it's not a deterrent to adding more difficult content, at least it shouldn't be. 

I really don't think you're considering the incentives of a harder difficulty otherwise you wouldn't have stated the following:

14 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

t’s important to keep that kind of stuff in mind: is it really good content? Does this addition make the game as a whole better? will people enjoy it? And the answer to a difficulty bump is probably no on most fronts. I like hard games a lot, but ive played dont starve across three platforms, im not going to freeze to death panicking about why my screen is icing over ever again. The game wont be hard again, and that’s unavoidable. 

On all accounts if the reward is worth it, then yes a harder difficulty is justified. 

Also, due to the sandbox nature of the game you can make the beginning difficult without hurting new players. The ruins do just that if you decide to interact with them early on. 

I also don't know what kind of super saying 3 veteran player you know, but I have thousands of hours in the game and still die. There plenty of ways to die due to simple human error so the "veteran players" who are immune to difficulty are a much lower percent of the fan base than you think or don't exist. 

Klei can absolutely add harder justifiable content that enriches the experience. In fact it already exists in the game such as rushing the ruins, low resources for a boss fight, scienceless rushes, etc. Sounds to me you just haven't been challenging yourself enough or haven't come to realize the skill ceiling for this game can be higher than you think. 

[Well-met]

admirable post yet that doesn't mean the game need to get easier and easier with updates either.

 

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Well-met said:

admirable post yet that doesn't mean the game need to get easier and easier with updates either.

 

This is also equally debatable:

Did you find Webbers Rework having Nurse Spiders Spawn from Spider Queens as being “Fun” and Easier when you played as any other character not named Webber?

What About Wendy’s Rework? Do you find a Pipspook wandering into your Base as Reworked Wolfgang to be “Fun” after he has Been Reworked so his Sanity flatlines without getting high tier sanity restoring items and a few “Followers”? And there you have this almost Wendy exclusive Mob intruding into your Base to tank your Sanity when you get near it..

What about having 15 Water Spiders swarm the deck of your tiny little wooden boat platform you have no room to move around on as anyone other than Webber, did you find that “easier” too?

Theres also the Eye of Terror & Twins of Terror that now play spin the bottle to decide what random player they want to take out on a romantic date for the night- was that “easier” too?

Your lying to yourself & being delusional to say that DST just gets easier & easier with each update.

When in Reality: it’s a pendulum swinging back and forth some things actually DO Get Easier… whilst others actually DO become harder.

[Leonidas IV]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Case in point: DS the single player game which has existed since like 2013 just has recently gotten a Free QoL update that allows you to tame Beefalo (they were never tameable in solo DS)

Disregarding that on consoles they are walking bugs 

[Well-met]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is also equally debatable:

Did you find Webbers Rework having Nurse Spiders Spawn from Spider Queens as being “Fun” and Easier when you played as any other character not named Webber?

What About Wendy’s Rework? Do you find a Pipspook wandering into your Base as Reworked Wolfgang to be “Fun” after he has Been Reworked so his Sanity flatlines without getting high tier sanity restoring items and a few “Followers”? And there you have this almost Wendy exclusive Mob intruding into your Base to tank your Sanity when you get near it..

What about having 15 Water Spiders swarm the deck of your tiny little wooden boat platform you have no room to move around on as anyone other than Webber, did you find that “easier” too?

Theres also the Eye of Terror & Twins of Terror that now play spin the bottle to decide what random player they want to take out on a romantic date for the night- was that “easier” too?

Your lying to yourself & being delusional to say that DST just gets easier & easier with each update.

When in Reality: it’s a pendulum swinging back and forth some things actually DO Get Easier… whilst others actually DO become harder.

nurse spider is the only correct counter point you have provided

and still it is offset by all the refreshes.

[. . .]

i want the game to be harder again

[Ardcrumb]

Honestly, I've been playing this game since 2013 and I've still never killed dragonfly, ancient guardian, fuelweaver, malbratross, crab King or cc, I'm bad bad at this game, can't do most things without settings turned up, but I still get a sense of discovery and just complete wonder and a sense of "how in the **** am i going to do this" whenever I see something new, but I've been having trouble trying to get that feeling because I always spoil myself, but what the game needs isn't new content, new bosses, new biomes; it needs polish.

the main focus of klei shouldn't be the players with the most playtime, it should be the players who have spent little time playing.

  

We as a forum are composed of 99% veteran players and klei needs to focus on improving that early game, which is a confusing mess at best, players have no idea that boats exist, that the lunar island exists, that fuel weaver exists, and how the hell are you supposed tk get the opal normally, considering it breaks the no gem return. 

If you introduce someone to dst right now, they're missing out, major polish is needed and has been needed for years. 

Tl:dr

I'm a coward who wants new players to have direction

[Spino43]

9 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Crab King is a good example of difficulty for difficulties sake, that is not what most people want. Killing Crab King more than once is a waste of time.

But I need his ornaments for Winter's Feast tree...

[HowlVoid]

48 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

But I need his ornaments for Winter's Feast tree...

I mean... Wasting time is all you can do in the end game. I also got a tree full of crab king ornaments and a pearled Crab king at the very top. I also cheesed him though because he doesn't deserve a fair fight.

[PurpNGold74]

1 hour ago, Ardcrumb said:

Honestly, I've been playing this game since 2013 and I've still never killed dragonfly, ancient guardian, fuelweaver, malbratross, crab King or cc, I'm bad bad at this game, can't do most things without settings turned up, but I still get a sense of discovery and just complete wonder and a sense of "how in the **** am i going to do this" whenever I see something new, but I've been having trouble trying to get that feeling because I always spoil myself, but what the game needs isn't new content, new bosses, new biomes; it needs polish.

 

This post GETS ME! Ive been playing since 2016? I found DST through Shipwrecked on iOS… it stole my heart from the beginning despite me NEVER finding a way to fix poison. Or survive past my final ill placed sandbag flooded base
 

eventually I migrated to ps4, then to the 5… Find myself like @Mike23Ua (… ikr) but im a consoler thru and thru. Dont know the joys of mods nor 8 player pubs… (sorry argument for a different thread) BUT I also try not to spoil myself. Ive never WATCHED a FW or CC fight, let alone tried them. Never found the ruins (usually dont hunt them). 5 years of DS/DST hundreds, if not thousands, of hours. and STILL a Wigfrid main because I dont mind tanking and need to kill everything in The Constant because… why not?… Recently Ive been spamming Warly worlds to practice farm rushing and help my 2 total friends I play this game with (spoiler, they after 3-4 years still suck.. one plays only Autumn, the other only with one of us)

 

Now my point… 

 

DST doesnt need more late game content, doesnt need more early game content.

 

1 hour ago, Ardcrumb said:

it needs polish

Back to Ard… the refreshes are awesome. The skins usually awesome. Cawnival was overhyped. Winter’s Feast is a parade of skins we already have. And most “late game” content comfortably outside my reach.

Sidenote: This forum taught me about lag comp, which led to ACTUALLY being able to kite. Thanks! Maybe the boring dst is closer then I thought lol.

 

Back on Topic…

Fill the ocean with more foolishness to kill me and my 2 (debately) stupid enough friends to follow me on a boating adventure that dooms us all! More Semi (I guess nonraid… Deerclops, Beargar, MooseGoose, Spider Queen etc etc…) Bosses to panically need to rollback for because ‘X’ didnt remember to bring healing foods or forgot to equip armor. Add more variety to seasons (Blizzards/HeatWaves/Poison Dart Frogs XD). 
 

In other words? Klei we need more insane, unknown ways to die! Everyone remembers finding the glorious Thermal Stone… or not eating the Deer’s Eye and actually surviving their first Spring. Random SET variables can only create so many options (which I STILL THOROUGHLY ENJOY). New Biomes, Biome Tweaks, New Mobs, Mob Tweaks, I dont really care. The track record is proven. Just keep dropping content and Ill shut up and keep buying skins. 

[Ardcrumb]

All the console players look up to Mike, guys a ******* chad