Optional tutorial to aid new players

[JeezSorry]

2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Players also enjoy getting blasted by something they didnt knew it existed, like hound waves

I can agree with that, quotes being like "doggies coming!" they would be like "what?????" and I like that, surprises can teach.

11 hours ago, HumanBean150 said:

I think that important craftables such as the spear, especially armor, the crock pot, the fridge, and firepit should be extra highlighted even without the proper ingredients. 

but when it comes to simple things, like said here, it would be nice to teach them such things, or at least how to obtain in a sense.

 

I wonder what a tutorial island would look like

[Cheggf]

13 minutes ago, JeezSorry said:

Maybe, can depend on the person though, but is your bias because you had to learn that way?

Maybe so, I wouldn't know

But a nice simple tutorial would be nice, it isn't like you would need to do it

It could ease more players into the game

How many players do you think might have stopped playing after not knowing anything? Hell if I would know

just my thoughts

Some people might prefer a game that holds their hand, but those people probably wouldn't want to play this game. Those people who left because they didn't know what they were doing would still leave whether or not there's a tutorial. If anything they'd be more likely to leave because they'd be even more lost now that the guidance they relied on is gone.

[Filip_G]

I vote NO, there should not be any tutorial (that´s what is making the game awesome and challenging). Also, absolute newbies should not be allowed to join others until they solo survive a certain number of days (whole year with all seasons would be a proper time to test them).

[JeezSorry]

3 minutes ago, Filip_G said:

absolute newbies should not be allowed to join others until they solo survive a certain number of days

what the hell? NO, the whole point is to play with friends, not spend 9 hours alone and die and die, its not "testing" its just torture and no fun. That's how you get people to leave the game.

I bet your a wolfgang main, trollface

[Filip_G]

I did not say that newbies cannot play together, I said they should not be allowed to join game of the skilled players. There should be 2 levels of players - the newbies and skilled ones (and the 1 game year will be the threshold) Thats the difference. Didn´t think it will butthurt somebody so quickly  

Oh or even better, finish the Adventure mode of DS and only after you can download the DST. Perfect solution 

[MondayNight]

45 minutes ago, Filip_G said:

I did not say that newbies cannot play together, I said they should not be allowed to join game of the skilled players. There should be 2 levels of players - the newbies and skilled ones (and the 1 game year will be the threshold) Thats the difference. Didn´t think it will butthurt somebody so quickly  

Oh or even better, finish the Adventure mode of DS and only after you can download the DST. Perfect solution 

That's quite an elitist ("1337ftw") approach and pretty far from DST's core I reckon.

As someone with over 10k DST h and a nomad adventurer I like having newbies in server, I fancy pubs a lot. Their simple take-ons and shenanigans are refreshing and make me remember with nostalgia my beginnings in DS/T - as subjective as it sounds. Plus, if you don't like newbies/noobs/casuals, you can just.. ignore them? Even in pubs, you can mute the chat and do your own thing. As for your base, make it in a very secluded place, like Atrium, Archives, Cave Swamp, a safe Military Ruins chamber to not be bothered by newbie f-ups. Simple. No need to segregate players via tier systems.

[Capybara007]

35 minutes ago, Filip_G said:

I did not say that newbies cannot play together, I said they should not be allowed to join game of the skilled players. There should be 2 levels of players - the newbies and skilled ones (and the 1 game year will be the threshold) Thats the difference. Didn´t think it will butthurt somebody so quickly  

Oh or even better, finish the Adventure mode of DS and only after you can download the DST. Perfect solution 

Klei should add a trophy system like my favourite game clash royale so if you have enough trophies you become swag and you can play online

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Filip_G said:

and the 1 game year will be the threshold

if you wanna be elitist try harder.

2/10

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Filip_G said:

I vote NO, there should not be any tutorial (that´s what is making the game awesome and challenging). Also, absolute newbies should not be allowed to join others until they solo survive a certain number of days (whole year with all seasons would be a proper time to test them).

No… otherwise I would never be able to play the game with my friends.

But forcing them to pass a short tutorial that tells them absolutely NOTHING that gives No on screen information, no bold text, no flashing neon signs saying “hey do this!, dummy” building an Area that presents itself in the same way that people who played Solo DS learned how to play the game by spawning beside nearby structures or pre-crafted items & then having to figure out FOR THEMSELVES what they are, how to use them and later- how to make them on their own.

The way such a “No Hands Held” tutorial would work would spawn the player onto a tiny and I mean TINY Island where they can’t move around or do too much except what the Tutorial is trying to teach them without flashing on screen arrows.

Once the player bypasses one test of figuring out what to do- A wormhole opens up allowing them to jump into a new area with a new “thing they need to figure out for themselves”

This is exactly how people learned in Solo DS- you find a mysterious doorway, you enter it, you spawn with Maxwell taunting you and useful items you’ll need to survive.

So: let’s say the first noob island has a low percentage torch laying/ pre-built campfire laying around somewhere for the player to find or DIE in total darkness.

the second noob island (after they jump through the One Way only wormhole that opens up near them) teaches them a Different thing.. like leaving a spear laying around when a nest of spiders spawns 3 spider on the little tiny island they will DIE to these spiders on if they don’t pick up that spear and smack them dead.

AGAIN This is EXACTLY how players learned in DS Solo without having blinking on screen indicators telling them exactly what to craft or do.

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, Filip_G said:

I vote NO, there should not be any tutorial (that´s what is making the game awesome and challenging). Also, absolute newbies should not be allowed to join others until they solo survive a certain number of days (whole year with all seasons would be a proper time to test them).

If you have trouble surviving when you're on a server with "absolute newbies" don't join public servers. 

[Cookie95]

This thread was a mistake.

[lakhnish]

21 minutes ago, Geo95 said:

This thread was a mistake.

Welcome to the forums.

[goblinball]

If I hadn’t had a friend to guide me around the basics of dst or the wiki, I probably would have lost interest very fast. Wandering around confused and unaware of what you are supposed to be doing isn’t very fun, neither is browsing the wiki or watching guides. I think a tutorial teaching the bare necessities would be nice. The reason why early DS’s tutorial failed is because it was just bad at its job, not because it was a tutorial.

[lakhnish]

4 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The reason why early DS’s tutorial failed is because it was just bad at its job, not because it was a tutorial.

I don't think it would be bad if the game added Steam Achievements. They're kind of like a tutorial but not really. They do at least give the players a sense that there is a lot more to the game, but I also understand that Klei made their initial no tutorial stance cause they wanted people to be more engaged with the game via self discovery rather than being told what to do.

I know when the did the Forge and the Gorge, I got all my achievement and then immediately stopped playing, so there is that to consider happening to people who would play DST.

[Mike23Ua]

Again, when you play Solo DS you wander up upon items and resources that indirectly guide you into discovering what to do with them.

finding the location of “Wooden Potato Thing” let’s you wander up upon a Garden for the first time ever and be like “you mean I could’ve built a garden and grew food all the times I was starving?! Oh come on..”

This same set piece also teaches the player they move faster on cobblestone roads.

Some of these set pieces are now OUTDATED by today’s standards with what all Klei has done with the game, but the point still stands…

You find a half complete Garden with a Garden Diggamajig and Bam, you learn how to make a basic garden.

Dying or almost dying in “Maxwells Toothtrap Biome” helps you learn that: “Ouch Hey!! Those things hurt if I walk into them I wonder if I can craft..”

(I feel like many veteran players have forgotten this experience)

You do not need a step by step tutorial- and in fact if it HAD One, it would open the flood gates for the wrong type of players who were never going to learn the game without hand holding to begin with.

[maradyne]

Literal tutorial that tells you how to do every aspect of the game, no.
...steadily adding more ways to actually guide the player to what they need to know? Yes.

 

Cookbook is a brilliant example. It gives you the option to play the game in-game, rather than pushing the player to look at the wiki for obscure knowledge that they'll ultimately discard because...meatballs and pierogis are good enough. That's where we've been for the longest time.
It may not be in perfect form, but the concept is there; you can see that there are more recipes to unlock, so as a player, you're free to experiment with them until you get them right, and you're rewarded with a simple in-game reference, based on the work and trial and error that you put in.

With darkness, it's visibly held back by light.
With weapons and armor...it's obvious what they do.
With boats, the ocean is all around, begging to be explored; whether you want to or not comes down to other factors.
Farming is very similar to the Cookbook approach, but even moreso; the item names of seed actually change as you fully learn about the plants, for convenience. Lovely touch.
Exploration...if you're trying to progress, you're encouraged to find new resources to make your challenges easier, and in turn, you learn to deal with the threats.
In the midst of it all, the crafting menu and blueprints do a decent job of telling you your options...most of the time.

...the main thing that comes to mind is Fuelweaver.
With the Shadow Atrium, as a new player, there's actually no in-game indication that you should build a skeleton next to the mysterious gateway in that one mazey area of the caves with the weird murals and stick the black heart thing into it. There's an indication that you need to put the key in the lock...but not really what to do afterward.
That part relies entirely on the fact that the Skeleton forms and Gateway stuff were added to the game in clear relation around the same time, so we were able to put 2 and 2 together.
If there was just some indication that the Shadow Atrium goes to the skeleton, that would be a good start. Then maybe an in-game indication that the biome with the gateway is called the Atrium. Or...something along the lines of the Atrium calling you to the gate, ala the Divining Rod.

...or, put it on the ground in the caves and it reaches out a little shadow hand that steadily claws itself toward the Atrium Tentapillar? Just a thought.

 

I'm actually fine with little side-stuff being obscure, like Misery Toadstool, or the ability for players to build Ruins Furniture; they're neat finds for digging deeper. But...most things, especially major progression, should be doable through gameplay, not require an external tutorial or a veteran of the game doing things for you.

The player should be able to learn what they need to know by playing.

[LEX-7O2]

Klei said it best themselves

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, LEX-7O2 said:

Klei said it best themselves

and people tent to forget that the science part also means "experimentation"

[HowlVoid]

Anyone that can't beat dragonfly day 1 as Wes should have their computer/console bricked by Klei, tbh.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Anyone that can't beat dragonfly day 1 as Wes should have their computer/console bricked by Klei, tbh.

Wes would probably be the best choice to FIND Dragonfly on Day 1 because he spawns with a speed movement buff now, but I think a tutorial is a bad idea.. like an actual tutorial- No my answer is no & always will be No.

But: Making the players play through a short prologue type thing that tells them nothing but allows them to learn through pre-built set piece they have to progress through before playing online: that would be beneficial I think.

[LinknAllie]

For the 10000000000000000000th time.  The game is meant to be learnt through trial and error.  The game is supposed to be difficult.

[goblinball]

23 hours ago, LinknAllie said:

The game is supposed to be difficult.

You do realize hard games have tutorials too, right?

[BezKa]

5 minutes ago, goblinball said:

You do realize hard games have tutorials too, right?

Depends on the game

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, goblinball said:

You do realize hard games have tutorials too, right?

It depends on what the games tutorial teaches/tells you- if Klei released a step by step tutorial that teaches players right up the point WINTER STARTS then those players are only going to play to the point Winter comes and Deerclops show up to destroy everything they’ve built to that point.

Ironically- this is where most players drop off the game anyway.

So what option is left? Teach them how to survive every weather season, craft & use every Craftable item? Teach them how to create & bait traps for food & safety?

What would be the point in playing at all if you didn’t die trying to figure things out for yourself?

I recently learned how to deal with “Flu Season” in the still relatively newly released to consoles Hamlet DLC from a Quote Walani has until this point- I sneezed my inventory out my hands and often times off the map.

Spoiler

My point: the things the characters say when inspecting things, their abilities.. and the game itself will teach you without needing to resort to online guides, you just have to be willing to learn & pay attention.

Cause I assure you Klei didn’t put all those inspection quotes into the game for no reason at all… that is a TON of development time where they could’ve just kept the characters as Silent as WES if they didn’t want you learning things in that way.

Ive learned how to spawn Bee Queen not from an Online guide- but because I happened to be playing as Willow when I inspect Bee Queen and I took her up on that dare.

I learned that FLOWERS are Renewable from a Quote Maxwell makes about “Flying Flowers”

The game teaches you… you just have to be willing to LEARN.

And a tutorial- would strip that learning process away, or leave the players hanging at the same point most players drop the game anyway.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, goblinball said:

You do realize hard games have tutorials too, right?

do you realize that the difficulty in this game is not knowing stuff? DST isnt a hard game in terms of skill but knowledge, if you tell people how to make things part of that first impression and difficulty is gone

also, a lot of difficult games doesnt have any kind of tutorial, as much the game might tell you the basic controls and others just let you check the settings to know what keys are used and for what