Wolfgang's society and it's future

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

-

I used to kite and kill BQ solo as Willow cause of the sewing kits and all that. Sometimes I brought it to ruins to deal with monkeys or other clockworks. He's a reliable punching bag.

Soooo... uhhh, anyway. Wolfgang is still the main core subject in this thread. We should keep on track.

[Mysterious box]

Ac

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I love the Willow with multiple Bernie’s gameplay, it’s almost Wendy levels OP.. because Bernie has lots and lots of health and a single use of Repair kit restores him to 100% Thats 5 uses in one kit!

People who ban Willow out there servers need to burn in a flaming pit of fire!

(Seriously people now literally spawn into the game WITH Enough resources in their inventory to craft TWO torches with.. as any character in the game AS SOON AS THEY SPAWN-… so for the love of god stop kicking Willow just because she has a lighter!)

True fear was her prerelease state when you could have limitess BERNIE!

 

Keeping in theme with the actual topic I feel I should add something Wolfgang related so....

What I think I'd like to see with Wolfgang would be a damage penalty tied to his current sanity level it would bring his fear of monsters downside into the limelight tho maybe make it start from 40% sanity and lower. 

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Wolfgang is still the main core subject in this thread. We should keep on track.

Okay okay fine I don’t want another warning for taking threads too far off-topic so, I want to suggest something a little crazy for Wolfgang when he gets reworked- I would like a Character Model update for him.

Because THIS: 

Simply just Does NOT look close to This:

This…

Or even THIS!!

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

---

not like consistency was ever a thing kek

but on the serious note Wolfgang never shown to have much besides just being a hunky strongman that just loves potatoes. Most we'll likely get is new fighting moves and something with phobias and defense instead of consistently needing to stuff face with food. 

[QuQuasar]

I stand by what I said in the other thread: tie the mighty and wimpy forms to sanity instead of hunger. Then, give him an ability or item that trades hunger for sanity, allowing him to restore his mighty form on demand. The obvious choice here would be the barbell seen in his character portrait: an item you could right click to play a quick 'lifting' animation that costs hunger and restores sanity.

This maintains the hunger -> mighty gameplay while adding viable alternatives such as chugging sanity restoring foods and adding a new dimension to boss fights that other characters don't have to worry about sanity with.

It also just makes sense to me that the cowardly strongman character should not to be able to fight at full capacity whilst bedwettingly terrified. 

[Mike23Ua]

23 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

cowardly strongman character should not to be able to fight at full capacity whilst bedwettingly terrified. 

Oh you mean like in This image from a previous Hallowed Nights art from Klei?

While Webber and Wolfgang look like they’re about to pee themselves in fear, Wendy is sitting there Mildly Unamused & a Bored expression on her face.

[DrMcGillacactus]

8 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

making him carry statues faster is such a niche thing that no one will notice at all

I strongly disagree
That is all

[Erineyes7]

I have no Problem with Wolfgang's upsides, none at all, but his downside is so boring it's astounding. I wouldn't be surprised if most people didn't even notice the sanity drain was increased, It's that small.

Personally I think giving him crowd control is a bad idea. He already one-shots spiders and other small mobs, so making it significantly easier just doesn't work. He excels in single target, and it should stay that way. 

Spoiler

51 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh you mean like in This image from a previous Hallowed Nights art from Klei?

While Webber and Wolfgang look like they’re about to pee themselves in fear, Wendy is sitting there Mildly Unamused & a Bored expression on her face.

 

Most of the cast has the problem, ESPECIALLY MAXWELL.

[QuQuasar]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

While Webber and Wolfgang look like they’re about to pee themselves in fear, Wendy is sitting there Mildly Unamused & a Bored expression on her face.

Maxwell is her uncle, she's probably heard this one before.

[Toros]

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject, so I’m going to share a few that haven’t been mentioned.

1) Remove the stun on transforming.  It’s not a fun mechanic to play around for experienced players and it’s frequently annoying for less experienced players

 

2) I don’t like Wolfgang’s speed bonus.  While it makes sense physiologically (speed is achieved by strength, and a lot of linebackers are extremely fast and very strong) it’s a powerful and unnecessary part of his kit.  The constantly scaling speed bonus is especially annoying for fights like dfly where the timing is tighter and the number of hits per dodge is dependent on your hunger meter.

 

3) Flavor perks are fine when they make sense.  I’d like to see Wolfgang move heavy objects and row better than other characters, and you don’t need to nerf him for those.

 

4) Wolfgang’s health could easily be nerfed to 200 max.  That gives Wigfrid the “tanky” niche and Wolf retains his damage advantage.

 

5) Wolfgang could absolutely have craftable items that fit with his character’s theme.  An extra large backpack/chest that slows down everyone who isn’t wolfgang?  An oversized sledge hammer with the forge aoe attack?  A lifting belt that lets Wolfgang throw statues, boulders and players?

 

6) Wolfgang should be more vulnerable at low sanity.  In a mod I made, he gets 30% more sanity loss and when he’s at low sanity he gets the purple amulet effect so more shadows spawn around him.  This is more dangerous because 5 terrorbeaks at once is a lot tougher than 2, and could also be exploited on a team for nightmare fuel farming.

 

There’s a lot of room for creativity, especially if you nerf Wolfgang’s max health and speed down and buff him in more interesting ways

 

[Sir Noel]

11 minutes ago, Toros said:

6) Wolfgang should be more vulnerable at low sanity.  In a mod I made, he gets 30% more sanity loss and when he’s at low sanity he gets the purple amulet effect so more shadows spawn around him.  This is more dangerous because 5 terrorbeaks at once is a lot tougher than 2, and could also be exploited on a team for nightmare fuel farming.

I really like this. His sanity downside has never made sense considering he's one of the hardest hitting characters in the game and can easily kill a terrorbeak in potentially 4 hits with a simple dark sword, and his speed bonus makes killing them that much quicker. It becomes more of a chore if you don't need any nightmare fuel and go insane a bit faster than other characters, and a blessing if you need more.

Having to really keep an eye on things that can affect your sanity would make the player much more aware of their surroundings and what can drain it (and you'd want to avoid darkness as much as possible). Sanity suddenly becomes a lot more important during fights like Deerclops, but even normal fights could potentially get dicey if you aren't prepared. This is balanced out by the fact that you would still be killing things very quickly anyway, but not being in mighty form during fights could be trouble for an inexperienced player. Realistically for an experienced player this still wouldn't be too hard, but it's something you would need to keep note of regardless.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendy is sitting there Mildly Unamused & a Bored expression on her face

that describes her gameplay xD

 

about wolf. If klei add or refresh the sanity downside it should be in a fun way not just annoying and flat things. Also his stomach perk should stay but with extra perks for his mighty state to be worth in a multiplayer environment

[Horsheen]

16 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

People who ban Willow out there servers need to burn in a flaming pit of fire!

People are too obsessed with the past to realise that the real griefers were the Webbers we met along the way 

[Toros]

13 hours ago, Walk the Plank said:

I really like this. His sanity downside has never made sense considering he's one of the hardest hitting characters in the game and can easily kill a terrorbeak in potentially 4 hits with a simple dark sword, and his speed bonus makes killing them that much quicker. It becomes more of a chore if you don't need any nightmare fuel and go insane a bit faster than other characters, and a blessing if you need more.

Having to really keep an eye on things that can affect your sanity would make the player much more aware of their surroundings and what can drain it (and you'd want to avoid darkness as much as possible). Sanity suddenly becomes a lot more important during fights like Deerclops, but even normal fights could potentially get dicey if you aren't prepared. This is balanced out by the fact that you would still be killing things very quickly anyway, but not being in mighty form during fights could be trouble for an inexperienced player. Realistically for an experienced player this still wouldn't be too hard, but it's something you would need to keep note of regardless.

10% was always so trivial you’d barely notice, and with Wolf ending fights faster he usually lost less sanity than Wilson from it.  30% is enough you feel the impact but nighttime sanity loss is negated by a tam (not slowly restoring, like other characters) and if you try to fight Clops in normal form you can get into trouble quickly.

[Seero]

21 hours ago, Toros said:

2) I don’t like Wolfgang’s speed bonus.  While it makes sense physiologically (speed is achieved by strength, and a lot of linebackers are extremely fast and very strong) it’s a powerful and unnecessary part of his kit.  The constantly scaling speed bonus is especially annoying for fights like dfly where the timing is tighter and the number of hits per dodge is dependent on your hunger meter.

 

you can make the speed fixed at 260 hunger+ so when you're above that, you have walking cane speed bonus and you won't have the constant scaling, but in practice it's very easy to avoid with a lot of food or an ice staff, and the only boss that makes this into a slightly big deal is dragonfly, the only boss that moves while hitting afaik

[Ardcrumb]

Wait, is the title of this thread a reference to the unabomber manifesto

[Seero]

Btw, if Wolfgang is nerfed by damage and speed by any significant amount, Wendy will become better than Wolfgang in terms of combat 

even if you nerf him to 1.75 dmg, Wendy can do up to 1.5x dmg with Abigail, not to mention Abigail attacks in AOE so she can take on a ton of mobs at once, with the right potion she can even take down shadow spluemonkies, so Wendy does not have raw damage but she has all these other points about her and Wolfgang will fall behind if he loses his speed and damage in some significant capacity.

and a little girl having more combat ability then someone who is meant to be strong is kind of silly, I don't think In need to explain why

if klei can keep his speed and damage where it is, this will not only be good in keeping his preferred playstyle by players, they will be completely content with it, and the rework will be good and not super controversial

and personally i will be completely fine, I don't really care what happens to Wolfgang just keep his speed and damage

On 9/26/2021 at 7:21 PM, Erineyes7 said:

I have no Problem with Wolfgang's upsides, none at all, but his downside is so boring it's astounding. I wouldn't be surprised if most people didn't even notice the sanity drain was increased, It's that small.

 

I noticed it, its not huge but it's definitely noticeable for me

On 9/27/2021 at 9:24 PM, Ardcrumb said:

Wait, is the title of this thread a reference to the unabomber manifesto

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Seero said:

Btw, if Wolfgang is nerfed by damage and speed by any significant amount, Wendy will become better than Wolfgang in terms of combat 

she kinda already is. Is the character with the higher potential damage (abi damage*number of enemies= tons of dps in total) and is cheaper since wendy is free (you might need elixirs if fighting bosses) meanwhile wolfg needs to waste time farming food to keep his mighty form

[Seero]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

she kinda already is. Is the character with the higher potential damage (abi damage*number of enemies= tons of dps in total) and is cheaper since wendy is free (you might need elixirs if fighting bosses) meanwhile wolfg needs to waste time farming food to keep his mighty form

so buff wolfgang? 

Never seen anyone use "farming food takes time" as an argument, usually I hear "wolfgang op because food is abundant in the game called DONT STARVE!!!"
 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Seero said:

so buff wolfgang? 

Never seen anyone use "farming food takes time" as an argument, usually I hear "wolfgang op because food is abundant in the game called DONT STARVE!!!"
 

isnt a hard downside, and less taking in count all the upsides,  but still. You need time to cook or farm more food. It doest magically appears

4 minutes ago, Seero said:

so buff wolfgang? 

ofc but only with team oriented perks

[Seero]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

ofc but only with team oriented perks

these terms are acceptable

[ALCRD]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

It doest magically appears

Or does it? :>

*cranks up every edible plant related worldgen option to max*

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, ALCRD said:

Or does it!? :>

*cranks up every edible plant related worldgen option to max*

that is an interesting point. A lot of people complains about how easy is getting food even in early days but that people dont take in count that the default map is made for hosting more than 2 players so, solo players, in case they dont want that "too much food" experience might edit their world settings like reducing the spawn of carrots and their respawn time or ignore easy food sources like berry bushes (since they are not renewable, changing their setting to spawn a world with less berry bushes is a crime against humanity) or what ever

[Masked Koopa]

On 9/27/2021 at 5:26 AM, Walk the Plank said:

Maybe they could change the "monster" mechanic in the future so that it could be a more interesting downside (and this would apply to all monsters like Wurt and Wortox as well.)

Wurt isn't a monster. She's only hated by (and hates) pigs. Catcoons and Bunnymen are not aggressive to her, and neither would any new "good" mobs like ballphins. 

[Mario384]

I think the way to rework Wolfgang is to introduce some new pointless side perks which will coincide with deep hidden Wolfgang lore put very obviously into the trailer.  They won't serve to make Wolfgang more interesting, interact with his current kit in any way or help fix what makes Wolfgang bland (sanity isn't an issue especially with high damage and additional food is not hard to procure for an experienced player) but they'll be quirky and funny enough that people will defend the changes and the update as a whole anyway.