Wolfgang's society and it's future

[Seero]

Wolfgang while he could be improved upon has his spot in the game as a killing machine. I believe we should keep his killing machine aspect to satisfy certain kinds of players (these people still exist). 

Speedrunners/Boss rushers They are slightly different because boss rushers function under time limits, while speedrunners have to complete their goal as fast as possible 

People who just play him in general, he is very simple but that is very fun, killing spiders in 1 hit is pretty satisfying, it becomes easy enough where you can increase the difficulty by fighting more mobs

people who switch to him to kill bosses, lets face it boss fights are pretty long. I switch to Wolfgang either to speed up a fight or make it less painful (bee queen) you can probably make a case for keeping his niche just by using bee queen.  (theses reasons are solo, but they can be applied to multiplayer easily)

By keeping his spot as a killing machine, I mean keeping his 2x dmg and 1.25 speed (lets be fair here though, it's not constantly 2x and 1.25, it decreases proportionally to hunger), I believe if Klei keeps that, anything else that happens to Wolfgang will be beneficial and make him more fun.

some ideas:

decrease max sanity to 150, while keeping current sanity drain rate

decrease health by a little

move faster with statues, maybe he could have a bard effect like wigfrid but increases everyones damage by a little bit

Have armor bleed into his health when it  breaks (if a terrorbeak hits you with a 1% football helm, if you do not have any other football helm on you, you will only have half of the football helms protection) - it doesn't need to be at 1% and half protection, just as long as who ever you are getting hit by breaks your helm, you can have more damage done to you, I believe this is a good punisher to carelessness.

that's all the thoughts I have

PS: wanda is a glass cannon, not a killing machine

maxwell is not a glass cannon, he is basically a glass wilson

[Capybara007]

Any nerf to wolfgang wouldnt make sense at all, since its his rework, making him carry statues faster is such a niche thing that no one will notice at all, and buffing teammates is wigfrid's job, it would leave her in a horrible spot.

Overall i dont see what can make wolfgang fun at all, what craftables could you even give to wolfgang, weights? Sounds very weird for DST.

[Sir Noel]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

Overall i dont see what can make wolfgang fun at all, what craftables could you even give to wolfgang, weights? Sounds very weird for DST.

I don't think this is true, obviously there can be a way to make him more fun, but some ideas being thrown around like craftables and such don't seem like the way to go about it.

The suggestions I liked the most were ones that focus on what his core character traits are; getting mighty and having a fear of monsters. 

Wolfgang as of now is... fine. The way you can get to his mighty form is simple to understand and works for what it is. But compared to other characters, it's just a bit... easy. Anyone who has a general understanding of how to get food in this game can easily be in tip top hunger at pretty much all times, and you'll barely ever be going into his wimpy form that the downsides of this "risky" mechanic are negligible. First and foremost, this needs to be reworked; nothing too drastic that makes it way too annoying to go mighty, but something like how Wanda's age works; it should be somewhat difficult to maintain the form that gives you such high amounts of damage, but if you can pull it off and consistently stay in that form, you will get results. Now, I don't think it should be as difficult as Wanda, because compared to Wanda he is a bit safer if you aren't experienced with her or are just newer to the game, plus his form already provides more benefits like his speed boost, but it really shouldn't be as easy as just eating some food.

The fear of monsters bit, I really don't know honestly. It could maybe tie into the new mighty mechanic, or just be its own separate thing. Just something that isn't completely forgotten about the character like it is now.

[Mysterious box]

53 minutes ago, Walk the Plank said:

I don't think this is true, obviously there can be a way to make him more fun, but some ideas being thrown around like craftables and such don't seem like the way to go about it.

The suggestions I liked the most were ones that focus on what his core character traits are; getting mighty and having a fear of monsters. 

Wolfgang as of now is... fine. The way you can get to his mighty form is simple to understand and works for what it is. But compared to other characters, it's just a bit... easy. Anyone who has a general understanding of how to get food in this game can easily be in tip top hunger at pretty much all times, and you'll barely ever be going into his wimpy form that the downsides of this "risky" mechanic are negligible. First and foremost, this needs to be reworked; nothing too drastic that makes it way too annoying to go mighty, but something like how Wanda's age works; it should be somewhat difficult to maintain the form that gives you such high amounts of damage, but if you can pull it off and consistently stay in that form, you will get results. Now, I don't think it should be as difficult as Wanda, because compared to Wanda he is a bit safer if you aren't experienced with her or are just newer to the game, plus his form already provides more benefits like his speed boost, but it really shouldn't be as easy as just eating some food.

The fear of monsters bit, I really don't know honestly. It could maybe tie into the new mighty mechanic, or just be a separate thing like it is now. Just something that isn't completely forgotten about the character like it is now.

While I don't disagree with him getting a better downside I kinda feel this applies to Webber as well. His downside is that afew mobs are hostile to him but considering his horde mechanic and various buffs from his refresh he walks around with more damage and hp on average than Wolfgang with a ton of side benefits with the only downside being those specific mobs hating him who usually just become free food as his horde devours them.

[Sir Noel]

On 9/26/2021 at 12:07 PM, Mysterious box said:

While I don't disagree with him getting a better downside I kinda feel this applies to Webber as well. His downside is that afew mobs are hostile to him but considering his horde mechanic and various buffs from his refresh he walks around with more damage and hp on average than Wolfgang with a ton of side benefits with the only downside being those specific mobs hating him who usually just become free food as his horde devours them.

I've recently been playing Webber and... yeah, the "monster" downside is basically nothing. At the very least getting a certain amount of spiders, mainly nurse, are a bit on the expensive side, but the spider items are so readily available that this becomes a non-issue as you get by. At least having an army of spiders by your side is extremely fun!

At this point I think characters like Webber, aka no major downside(s) with plenty of good upsides, are going to stay the way they are for the foreseeable future. Really, as long as no character completely breaks the game, then I think they are fine. Maybe they could change the "monster" mechanic in the future so that it could be a more interesting downside (and this would apply to all monsters like Wortox as well.)

Going back to Wolfgang, I think suggesting interesting/balanced downsides now is important so we don't get just get another Webber situation. Wanda is fun because she requires the player to always be aware of her age while not being annoying to deal with either. I think Wolfgang should follow this logic, he is really similar to Wanda if you think about it. He already has the mighty mechanic, they just need to tweak it so it's more interesting to handle. As of now, if you go wimpy, you can just eat a meatball and you're back to normal. Like I said before, maybe it could tie into the fear of monsters or something, I'm not sure. 

[Seero]

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Any nerf to wolfgang wouldnt make sense at all, since its his rework, making him carry statues faster is such a niche thing that no one will notice at all, and buffing teammates is wigfrid's job, it would leave her in a horrible spot.

 

how about no statue penalty at all? (but he is locked at wilson movement speed even when mighty)

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Overall i dont see what can make wolfgang fun at all, what craftables could you even give to wolfgang, weights? Sounds very weird for DST.

I believe every rework so far has given survivors their own craftables including wes

so maybe we could expect weights from wolfgang, like that's actually a really high possibility

maybe he'll get a strength meter? sounds odd, and it sounds way too time consuming so maybe not weights but crafting something

 

[Mike23Ua]

I’ve thrown around a lot of ideas for what I would LIKE to see out of Wolfgang..

The TL:DR version of that: More fun interesting things to do while “Mighty” and some kind of actual real downside that isn’t Harsh and crippling, but plays heavily into his quote “Myraid of phobias & fear of monsters & Darkness”

The long Version in spoiler:

Spoiler

In addition to the 2x damage boost All of the Following while in “Mighty” Mode: 
 

Ability to go into a “throwing pose” which lets him pick a spot to throw teammates (a visual cue will be shown where there being thrown similar to Wortox’s soul hop circle on Xbox) once Wolfgang locks a position: Other players can walk up to and accept to be thrown (think Tom Clancy Splinter Cell games where one character kneels to boost the other up high walls)

as someone else had suggested a Donkey Kong style “Thunder Clap” which would deal AoE damage similar to Bearger ground pounds.

Ability to “Merm-Punch” Trees and Boulders to mine them without needing any tools.

Ability to walk at normal speeds while carrying large objects like Marble statues, crafted sculptures, Giant crops, or Antlion sinkhole boulders, AND be able to throw these to “splat” small mobs like Spider Nests.

to make up for all this: He looses the movement speed buff. (It never made any sense anyway)

Mighty Mode can be obtained while not needing to be at a full hunger, but now requires the lifting of his own signature Dumbell (similar to Wanda using Ageless clock or Wendy whispering commands into Abigails Flower)

Fear of Monsters- Wolfgang will not directly just go Fist punch a horde of spiders without some sort of penalty, AoE attacks and ranged Boulder throwing counter this downside.. but it gives the guy a LEGIT downside, even if it’s only while fighting Hordes of Spiders.

Thats all I can think of.. 

Unless you want to give him a craftable weapon he can give other players to boost their damage in melee.

 

 

[Gi-Go]

Glass canon? With a thulicite crown? Don't think so. 

[Pruinae]

2 hours ago, Seero said:

how about no statue penalty at all? (but he is locked at wilson movement speed even when mighty)

I don't think people would make that trade considering there's already a lot of alternative ways to carry statues (Beefalo, Boat, Walter, Wanda). Carrying heavy objects applies to: Crops (not that big of a deal), Statues (helpful to decorate/cheese), Altar Pieces, Statue Heads, Ocean Debris/Treasure, and I think that's all? It's such a small portion of the gameplay (provided you don't just carry everything with a character that has the full penalty), that ends up not being that big of a deal. I like the idea of having no penalty carrying stuff, but it doesn't make sense to me to trade something for it.

Another silly upside I think Wolfgang could have is being able to tackle and then carry mobs that can't be placed into the inventory, such as Volt Goats and Grass Geckos.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I can imagine him being proficient in the terms of what sort of food he eats, while the more you eat of that food the better you're at that task. Kinda like Warly gimmick but to self.

Perhaps depending on the weapon you use he'd have new combat perks coming up from the Forge into the game or some sort of a thing with him, with that maybe they're reworking overall weapons for all characters to feel more suited to use them more proficiently depending if they need it? We seen the thing going on with Wanda and her affinity with shadow magic being increased, can only imagine it could affect both Wolfgang and other players as well since the whole [Forge timer] mechanic was reinstalled.

While I'm thinking on what could be the possibilities I really don't think that he deserves any kinds of nerfs in terms of being that one powerhouse that's likely to kill any bosses. The thought is to make him more fun to feel powerful as than rather make him way less powerful and more complicated cause that'd be not Wolfgang at all.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Glass canon? With a thulicite crown? Don't think so. 

To be fair i refuse to believe in the term glass cannon as long as dark armor exists it's too easy to stockpile lol 

[Frosty_Mentos]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

To be fair i refuse to believe in the term glass cannon as long as dark armor exists it's too easy to stockpile lol 

Have you played Wanda yet? I been practicing her and I definitely see her being within those terms even with armor while trying to be consistent on being old all the time to max out her damage.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Have you played Wanda yet? I been practicing her and I definitely see her being within those terms even with armor while trying to be consistent on being old all the time to max out her damage.

I have extensively and never felt in danger with dark armor you can take 5-6 hits in old age and still be ok and so long as your not tanking that's more than enough tho if your taking more than that per 2 mins you should probaly stick to middle age instead.

edit:btw the 5-6 hits is assuming your fighting bosses she can take alot more from normal mobs in old age.

 

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

-

Usually depends on what you're fighting and the situation, she's still not really fit for fighting on hordes. Usually it's simple mistakes of being forgetful or being cocky and unprotected that would get ya. But well each player experiences things usually differently on how they play and what they do.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Usually depends on what you're fighting and the situation, she's still not really fit for fighting on hordes. Usually it's simple mistakes of being forgetful or being cocky and unprotected that would get ya. But well each player experiences things usually differently on how they play and what they do.

hordes in general will end you if you make mistakes but her whip gives her a edge when deal with hordes vs most characters

[Frosty_Mentos]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

hordes in general will end you if you make mistakes but her whip gives her a edge when deal with hordes vs most characters

Depending on your current state of game and how many Ageless watches you got she's fairly difficult without any good armor. Ofc you can get several extras of them but they do still go on cooldown and is your only healing ability, unlike most characters including Wolfgang who can just eat and heal immediately with little care, sometimes even going around tanking without any armor while having tons of blue caps.

Wanda relies on her clocks and can't do that, depending if you're dealing with a boss or clockwork mobs she's practically more difficult. Sorta like Wormwood, but he still can eat jelly beans, heal with salves or his poop heals. Similarly to Wanda but she only got a cooldown based source of health.

You know she'll die if she won't have good armor yet still can either run out of time by getting hit several times by accident or just not having enough time from her watches. Unlike Wormwood she's a high risk high reward character.

[StretchVanb]

Wolfgang becomes an ecoterrorist

Making Wolfgang stronger with blunt force weapons/giving him Forge-style special moves is GENIUS. I would love to see him able to do ground pound attacks and hit groups of enemies. Literally the only role we DON’T have a character in right now is crowd control, and I feel like the Strongman would be perfect for it. 
 

Just… make sure it doesn’t hit players on non-pvp servers and doesn’t destroy structures.

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, StretchVanb said:

Literally the only role we DON’T have a character in right now is crowd control

wendy?

[StretchVanb]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

wendy?

I forgot Abigail had AOE to be honest. But Wolfgang would probably be more of a generalist, somewhere between what we have now and a horde buster. (Hopefully with a bigger downside too)

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Depending on your current state of game and how many Ageless watches you got she's fairly difficult without any good armor. Ofc you can get several extras of them but they do still go on cooldown and is your only healing ability, unlike most characters including Wolfgang who can just eat and heal immediately with little care, sometimes even going around tanking without any armor while having tons of blue caps.

Wanda relies on her clocks and can't do that, depending if you're dealing with a boss or clockwork mobs she's practically more difficult. Sorta like Wormwood, but he still can eat jelly beans, heal with salves or his poop heals. Similarly to Wanda but she only got a cooldown based source of health.

You know she'll die if she won't have good armor yet still can either run out of time by getting hit several times by accident or just not having enough time from her watches. Unlike Wormwood she's a high risk high reward character.

on the flipside of that she always has healing and most threats can't catch a player who flees so if your careful your less likely to die than on the average character who needs to go out the way to find healing. Add to that once she gets access to magic night armor makes her alot more tanky than the average character and further that with the fact the whip in old age can kill most threats including clockworks with a more generous kiting window in 4 hits or less and she ends up being alot easier than your average character. keep in mind a mob like pigman deals 0.5 years of damage to her in dark armor or around 2 years in a football helm also before you have access to magic or good armor there's no good reason to stay old age meaning you'll be hovering around the age of 20 which translates to 150 hp. The fact she doesn't require stockpiling healing item actually ends up making her a good choice for casual players as well yes she can't heal on demand but so long as your not tanking the 2 min cooldowns on healing are fairly generous. She ends up feeling like a much more safe choice in dangerous areas like the ruins due to her healing watches as well as realistically she has infinite healing so long as you have time to spare or just don't get hit a huge amount as she doesn't really take a huge amount of damage in combat so you have to get hit a fair amount to need alot of watches we're just more conscious of it due to her design I find myself never needing more than 2-3 watches in combat.

[Frosty_Mentos]

21 minutes ago, Dextops said:

wendy?

Willow too with multiple Bernies and low sanity.

[Mysterious box]

27 minutes ago, StretchVanb said:

Literally the only role we DON’T have a character in right now is crowd control

*Angry moose noises sound in the distance.*

[StretchVanb]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

*Angry moose noises sound in the distance.*

Woodie is a god and his prowess is presumed enough that he is barely worth mentioning in balancing discussions.

[Frosty_Mentos]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

-

I give up to your mathematically calculated knowledge.

[Mike23Ua]

16 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Willow too with multiple Bernies and low sanity.

I love the Willow with multiple Bernie’s gameplay, it’s almost Wendy levels OP.. because Bernie has lots and lots of health and a single use of Repair kit restores him to 100% Thats 5 uses in one kit!

People who ban Willow out there servers need to burn in a flaming pit of fire!

(Seriously people now literally spawn into the game WITH Enough resources in their inventory to craft TWO torches with.. as any character in the game AS SOON AS THEY SPAWN-… so for the love of god stop kicking Willow just because she has a lighter!)