Nurses are too OP

[Blue Moth]

I really hate to be the one to say it, but am i the only one who thinks Nurses are a tad broken? They allow players to tank through almost any boss fight with ease. It's great that they heal the spiders and all, but I think that the fact that they can heal the player is WAY too strong. It makes Webber easily the best character for combat and he can easily tank most if not all bosses with them.

A few suggestions to balance things out:

1. Make it so Nurses can't heal Webber.
   this is the most obvious solution, so i don't really have much to add.
2. Remove the Nurse Switcherdoodle & remove the ability to summon spider queens from haunting dens.
   This makes nurses much more of a rarity, so players can't as easily mass-produce them so they can have tons of nurses to heal them anytime they want.

This post will probably be quite controversial, I am prepared for the war dumpster fire down below.

[HowlVoid]

Would be hard to balance this (I think).

Biggest thing separating Webber from his "before-refresh" are nurse spiders. Making them harder to obtain would just be annoying for a lot of people. 

[SkyistheGround]

i mean day 1 of webber rework already showed what it was like for nurse spiders being unable to heal webber. lackluster in my opinion

i personally like how they can heal webber, not only for the combat scenarios, but lore reasons as well

webber's biology makes him part spider-- he eats monster meat with no problems, he makes silk, he's part of the spiders
so naturally, the nurse spiders' medicine (or whatever it is, i dont know) should be able to heal one of their bretheren, even if he's a little taller

[CyberSkink]

I think the point of the nurses is to give Webber the ability to take on bosses, since willow can take on shadows and Wendy can take on hordes, it only makes sense for the nurse spider to allow Webber to take on bosses, besides, you need to have a bunch of them in order to take down a boss, and if you don’t die during the waiting for the spider queen, you will need to wait until day 20 at least. This gives Webber a slight disadvantage during the earlier stages of the game. I don’t think that the nurse itself should be changed. But if KLEI were to decide to change it, I would personally lower its spawn rate from the queen so you have to farm for it. But I would still keep the switcherdoodle.

[Guille6785]

tbh kiting should be nerfed, it literally allows you to completely avoid all damage

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Is strong but requires time and patience. Instead of cooking healing foods you befriend and mutate spiders so i think is fair 

[BoysenSyrup]

They're... fine I think? You have to get a lot of them to get healed a decent amount. Giving characters more strategies to mess around with is always a nice thing. Wolfgang (and probably Wigfrid) is still ultimately a better combat character just because of how *fast* he gets stuff done, even without constantly being healed, Webber just has his spiders.

Webber can have a little fun, as a treat.

[Mysterious box]

19 minutes ago, TitanicTigrex said:

I think the point of the nurses is to give Webber the ability to take on bosses, since willow can take on shadows and Wendy can take on hordes, it only makes sense for the nurse spider to allow Webber to take on bosses, besides, you need to have a bunch of them in order to take down a boss, and if you don’t die during the waiting for the spider queen, you will need to wait until day 20 at least. This gives Webber a slight disadvantage during the earlier stages of the game. I don’t think that the nurse itself should be changed. But if KLEI were to decide to change it, I would personally lower its spawn rate from the queen so you have to farm for it. But I would still keep the switcherdoodle.

 

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Is strong but requires time and patience. Instead of cooking healing foods you befriend and mutate spiders so i think is fair 

The thing is tho all it takes is 5 nurses to tank most anything in the game if you ignore a horde and that's only 10 silk, 10 honey, and 10 monster meat

3 minutes ago, BoySyrup said:

They're... fine I think? You have to get a lot of them to get healed a decent amount. Giving characters more strategies to mess around with is always a nice thing. Wolfgang (and debatably Wigfrid) is still ultimately a better combat character just because of how *fast* he gets stuff done, even without constantly being healed, Webber just has his spiders.

Webber can have a little fun, as a treat.

This is underselling it unlike wolfgang webber has added horde dps while also not needing to kite or heal

Edit: not saying they should nerf since there's not really a good way aside from removing the healing but it's still very unbalanced.

[SuperMeatGoy]

Bro Klei threw balance out the window a long time ago youre like a year or two late on these suggestions

[xDarkSoul18x]

Please no. Nobody is forcing Webber’s to arise an army of nurse spiders. I’m avoiding the nurse cheese on my Webber playthrough but it’s one of those things that’s there if you want to use it.

[BoysenSyrup]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This is underselling it unlike Wolfgang Webber has added horde DPS while also not needing to kite or heal

Spiders have low damage and attack slower, you can *reach* Wolfgang DPS but it requires a very significant amount of spiders to come close to it. Webber might not have to kite or heal but he also doesn't have the additional damage Wolfgang has, and it takes so many spiders to make up for that.

Basically, Wolfgang is better for most situations, but if you have several garbage truck loads of spiders, they can almost match him in DPS. Damage per second, not damage based on damage numbers alone. Six normal spiders seem like they nearly match Wolfgang's damage with a dark sword, but they attack significantly slower then Wolfgang, even if Wolfgang needs to heal/kite. This ideal damage can only be reached if all your spiders can even reach the front lines to use their attacks in the first place, which Nurses with lower damage will also be taking up.

Nurses rule, but Wolfgang is still better in pretty much every situation... for combat.

[Pig Princess]

I guess it's time to Wendy players to greet Webber ones in the club of being "OP", which means constantly being annoyed by suggestions of nerf in the most unintersting and uninspired way - remove tools rework gave or make them not worth the effort.

Edit: so Webber now too. Along with Wendy, Wolfgang, Wortox, Wickerbottom, WX, Woodie, bearger and football helmet. At this point it's even funny.

[Mysterious box]

16 minutes ago, BoySyrup said:

Spiders have low damage and attack slower, you can *reach* Wolfgang DPS but it requires a very significant amount of spiders to come close to it. Webber might not have to kite or heal but he also doesn't have the additional damage Wolfgang has, and it takes so many spiders to make up for that.

Basically, Wolfgang is better for most situations, but if you have several garbage truck loads of spiders, they can almost match him in DPS. Damage per second, not damage based on damage numbers alone. Six normal spiders seem like they nearly match Wolfgang's damage with a dark sword, but they attack significantly slower then Wolfgang, even if Wolfgang needs to heal/kite. This ideal damage can only be reached if all your spiders can even reach the front lines to use their attacks in the first place, which Nurses with lower damage will also be taking up.

Nurses rule, but Wolfgang is still better in pretty much every situation... for combat.

The fact he doesn't have to kite or heal along with say 20 spiders doing 20 damage which isn't a unreasonable number will easily surpass wolfgang's 2x damage so webber will outclass wolfgang in damage in every situation aside from end game bosses like fuel weaver(haven't tested)

Also spiders don't have to reach the frontlines to attack as they have ranged attackers.

Edit also consider Wolfgang has 2x damage but from him dogding webber will get 1-3 extra hits on a boss while he's doing that wolfgang's 2x damage is only 2 hits worth

[sudoku]

23 minutes ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

Bro Klei threw balance out the window a long time ago youre like a year or two late on these suggestions

Remember when people would defend how strong the Woodie and Wendy reworks were with the idea that RoT was gonna have some super hard content and characters needed to be stronger. 

I think its clear Klei uses very broad strokes in terms of balancing desicions but largely has no clue what theyre doing anymore.

[Guille6785]

21 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I guess it's time to Wendy players to greet Webber ones in the club of being "OP", which means constantly being annoyed by suggestions of nerf in the most unintersting and uninspired way - remove tools rework gave or make them not worth the effort.

Edit: so Webber now too. Along with Wendy, Wolfgang, Wortox, Wickerbottom, WX, Woodie, bearger and football helmet. At this point it's even funny.

I love how the most op characters according to the forums are the ones that excel at an optional and meaningless part of the game that you only do for the challenge anyway

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I love how the most op characters according to the forums are the ones that excel at an optional and meaningless part of the game that you only do for the challenge anyway

Honestly this is why I consider Wendy and Webber to be the most unbalanced of the characters not that I'm asking for nerfs are anything.

[Terra B Welch]

Fun fact, nurse spiders aren't immune to being stunlocked.

40 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I guess it's time to Wendy players to greet Webber ones in the club of being "OP", which means constantly being annoyed by suggestions of nerf in the most unintersting and uninspired way - remove tools rework gave or make them not worth the effort.

Edit: so Webber now too. Along with Wendy, Wolfgang, Wortox, Wickerbottom, WX, Woodie, bearger and football helmet. At this point it's even funny.

I find it funny that all but the football helmet are living beings in that list.

[Pig Princess]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

tbh kiting should be nerfed, it literally allows you to completely avoid all damage

Also crock pot is too strong, remove it from the game!

[Terra B Welch]

2 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Also crock pot is too strong, remove it from the game!

b-but how can I be the budding chef without muh crockpot? ;.;

[Pig Princess]

1 minute ago, Terra B Welch said:

b-but how can I be the budding chef without muh crockpot? ;.;

"Just like the chefs of the stone age!" - Warly about drying rack.

[SkyistheGround]

1 minute ago, Terra B Welch said:

b-but how can I be the budding chef without muh crockpot? ;.;

roast everything over the campfire. crockpot is too cheesy

[Guille6785]

18 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly this is why I consider Wendy and Webber to be the most unbalanced of the characters not that I'm asking for nerfs are anything.

are you saying they're unbalanced because they excel at an optional and meaningless part of the game that you only do for the challenge anyway

[goblinball]

i dont think nurse spiders being able to heal webber is that big of a deal considering everyone else can spam stuff like healing food. at least you can take jellybeans between caves/surface and relog with them.

[Mysterious box]

30 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

are you saying they're unbalanced because they excel at an optional and meaningless part of the game that you only do for the challenge anyway

no because they also excel at the non optional areas without having to interact most of the time.

[ShadowDuelist]

If it wasn’t for nurse spiders healing Webber, his rework would be really bad… And even with that it’s a “meh” rework so far. Not bad, but also not great.
Like many people mentioned yet, for what he was he’s a lot better, for sure. But honestly the more I keep playing him the more I feel it’s nothing to write home about. Getting a lot of healing during boss fights is pretty cool, but not gamechanging (Perogies were always a thing. And Webber could always spam healing salves anyway)

Definitely keep the nurse spiders as they are, and I hope they handle all the bugs(like the F key hitting spiders always or Abigail killing all your spiders) and make the QOL changes most of the community agrees upon:

- Allow Webber to pick up friendly spiders regardless if they are asleep or not

- Increase the time it takes for spiders to eat off the ground

- make the cookie crafting give 3 per craft.

- Remove the sanity drain of befriended spiders

And call it a day IMHO.