POLL on Wicker, WX, Wolf “power trio”

[Gourmand]

27 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

I thought that too, then one gentlemen reminded me about telelocator stuff. You can charge yourself by teleporting any creature.

And that only lasts for a little bit after the nerf, plus it's even more costly than End Is Nigh. Their only other perk is stale food... but that isn't much a gameplay changer or a feature any player should consider when picking a character. Spoiling food isn't even an issue anymore with the introduction of salt boxes and the mass amounts of food you can get from farming now. He's an automaton but the only thing automatic about them is how I automatically kick the gear-vacuums that are WX-78's when they join my world. Lots of potential for a robotic character and all he does is tolerate moldy Pierogis.

[Yuuko]

You! boy in the street! What year is it?  2016? lol

WX hasn't been OP in a LONG time.  What is great about WX is that you get into, and clear the ruins easy.  And with a decent supply of gears you have enough stats that its hard to fail at any task.  You can go for several days without eating, tank through several pieces of armor without healing, and if you're in a pinch eat a gear and its k.  Overchage is pretty fun, and with a teleport staff you get decent access to it, but its not game breaking or anything.  You can't get lightning in caves either /sadface

Wicker is OP in a way that is VERY benign, in a way that everyone benefits but mostly in a "now you don't need to harvest grass for a year" kinda way.  She used to be great at making food, but foods never been that hard to get, and she can't do that anymore.  I'd say Woodie is just as OP as it relates to logs, a very useful and friendly OP that just lets people avoid wasting time on menial tasks.  Any character can be OP this way and I'm 100% fine with it.  Some might say "but now they're pick and switch," and I'm okay with that.

Wolfgang is definitely OP, but that's kinda his character arc at this point.  Klei will eventually rework him, and based on their track record I'm probably going to love their rework even though I never play him.  Right now they could take nothing away, but give him a slightly more meaningful downside - and even add in a few new perks, and it would be alright.  Before the other reworks and I wouldn't have agreed.

Wendy is the new OP, I'm surprised she's not on your list.  With the new changes she is so much better, and is basically the most newbie friendly, win the game for you character.  Abi can't help with every boss, and a rook can take her out pretty quick, but you'll be drowning in frog legs, honey, spider loots, hounds teeth ect.  The only thing Abi can't do is put out fires lol

[Cheggf]

I don't know why there's this weird myth about those three characters being so good. After character reworks Wolfgang is basically a discount Wendy and WX has always been pretty weak in DST due to all the differences it has from DSA (Much harder to overcharge, no poison, no armor stacking, etc) but especially now that Wormwood's rework gives him a speed boost basically for free instead of dozens of purple gems per year, taking the one thing WX has.

Of the three, only Wickerbottom is particularly powerful, but the people who say that these characters are overpowered don't know why she's powerful and don't properly utilize her advantages. Also for some reason they started saying she sucks now because one of her books was made a little more expensive, but if you're at the point where you need to use that book you probably already have a bunch of living logs.

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Mighty Wolfgang with Chili-spiced Volt Goat Chaud-Froid for example, that am sure will be addressed with a specific nerf when Wolf rework will come due

I also don't know why people have a problem with this. You're putting in so much effort to get a funny epic <6x damage modifier. If you put in that effort elsewhere you can make a bajillion catapults, or a bajillion bunnymen, or a contraption to stunlock the boss to death, or some other thing that makes killing the boss easier than having 5 or 6 times the damage would.

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

After character reworks Wolfgang is basically a discount Wendy

HA that's a laugh.  Abi is great, but she's not ko'ing bosses nearly as well as Wolfgang.  He's still the king of boss destruction.  You can paper craft damage multipliers all you want, but Abi is not a 1 stop boss destroying machine.

[Gourmand]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

HA that's a laugh.  Aby is great, but she's not ko'ing bosses nearly as well as Wolfgang.  He's still the king of boss destruction.

Agreed. She's Wes with AOE (a very strong AOE that is). Abigail is 90% of why she's so good, Wolfgang still excels in fights though

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Agreed. She's Wes with AOE (a very strong AOE that is). Abigail is 90% of why she's so good, Wolfgang still excels in fights though

She got a rework, you know.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

how about we don't touch wolfgang's base stats at all because his kit has been a staple of solo dst play for like half a decade

the truth is that wolfgang didnt have any sense in single player DS, he fits more dst than being a 2 hits quacken killer

[Keller Max]

3 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Agreed. She's Wes with AOE (a very strong AOE that is). Abigail is 90% of why she's so good, Wolfgang still excels in fights though

Don't forget about abigail petal debuff that buffs Wendy damage to x1.155 in the end.

[Guille6785]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wolfgang is basically a discount Wendy

the other way around

8 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Of the three, only Wickerbottom is particularly powerful

fire farms effectively make on tentacles useless because it's more expensive and dangerous than them

that means her amazing upsides are:
-setting up the new farms faster (useful in multiplayer)
-stock up on grass and twigs (hardly necessary even in long term worlds because grass gekkos will usually produce too much grass anyway and twigs aren't used for much late game)
-get feathers for mini signs (which are decorative)
-dedicate hours of your life towards farming larger backpacks for your friends with horrible inventory management (passable depending on your needs, but moonstorms just made krampus farming easier) and get a bunch of low quality meat to feed those same friends (unnecessary because better food sources exist)
-overcharge that one annoying wx in a pub who will die when winter comes anyway

[HowlVoid]

I truly wish every character was built the same way Warly was in his rework (balance wise).

He is a very powerful well-rounded character but he doesn't feel cheap. You have to work and prepare for every encounter. Wendy is in the same vein but some preparation can be bypassed in certain scenerios (don't need potions for dragonfly if you kite correctly).  

Warly has:

Exploration perks

Combat perks

Resource gathering perks

His downsides also add flavor to the character's gameplay.

[Gourmand]

39 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

She got a rework, you know.

Uhhh yeah I know I literally said she is good in my comment.

[Masked Koopa]

Wickerbottom's main "thing" that can only be done by her is quick mass production of reeds, something that should realistically be available to more characters to begin with in some form. Outside of that her perks are very helpful but far from essential. 

Wolfgang is ultimately less of a help to the game's multiplayer focus when wortox and wendy contribute so much more to the team, making cheese-less bee queen a much more achievable goal whilst also helping immensely vs fuelweaver, and being pretty nice vs enemy hordes like spiders and splumonkies. The only reason I feel one can paint wolfgang as OP is in a solo play context, otherwise simply using spicy goat jelly vs a wet enemy, or even just using a morning star vs a wet enemy will already provide you more than enough individual dps.

WX meanwhile is just ehhh. While overload is not bad by any means, it's also not exactly so overwhelmingly strong that it instantly pushes him up into one of the best characters - you generally only need so much speed for each boss's kiting pattern, and I don't think overload hits any essential benchmarks in a more practical manner than just using a cane or a mag or a road. Having 400 hp does not mean much either, since characters like wigfrid and wurt exist with their more than 200 hp (effective hp in wigfrid's case), which achieves pretty much the same practical benefit of being able to take a hit or two while unarmored, and synergizing a little better with jellybeans. 

I think before many changes were made it would be easy to place these three as clearly better than the rest, but I don't think that's the case at all anymore. Wigfrid is MUCH stronger than wolfgang in the game's intended multiplayer context in that she can make supplying all players in the game with equipment a much more achievable goal whilst also providing a supplemental source of healing to everyone, and draining very few resources from the group thanks to her lack of need for healing or sanity foods.

I think the main problem is that to a degree it's being looked at in a singleplayer light, which pretty clearly isn't the focus of DST.

[Mysterious box]

When it comes down to it saying Wolfgang is the best way to deal damage to bosses is like pretending bearager isn't the best way to chop wood he's strong for a player character sure but there are multiple ways to outpace him in damage.

[Yuuko]

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

When it comes down to it saying Wolfgang is the best way to deal damage to bosses is like pretending bearager isn't the best way to chop wood he's strong for a player character sure but there are multiple ways to outpace him in damage.

How do you outpace Wolfgang in damage?  Literally any damage improvement can just be applied to Wolfgang to make it that much faster lol

[Baark0]

Back in the day this trio was a combination of the strongest characters that had little to no downside, and all complemented each other. Wolfgang's damage and WX-78's health could keep Ms. Wickerbottom safe from most threats, Ms. Wickerbottom could produce tons of food using lichen or berry bushes to sustain a Wolfgang, and overcharge WX-78. Wickerbottom also got less stats from eating stale/spoiled food, so all that near rotten food was eaten by the WX-78. Throw in a Maxwell if you plan on megabasing and you basically had the best combination of characters you could have. It's not seen much if at all nowadays due to other character's getting stronger and also more fun to play as, whereas the holy trinity could be described as "Wilson but X".

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

How do you outpace Wolfgang in damage?  Literally any damage improvement can just be applied to Wolfgang to make it that much faster lol

Fair point but I could also have woodie on the side chopping while bearager is mowing down trees I mean technically I'm still getting more logs.

As previously stated catapults, gunpowder and bunnymen far out dps wolfgang. Yea he can use them as well but at that point his damage is small in comparison.

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Fair point but I could also have woodie on the side chopping while bearager is mowing down trees I mean technically I'm still getting more logs.

As previously stated catapults, gunpowder and bunnymen far out dps wolfgang. Yea he can use them as well but at that point his damage is small in comparison.

catapults - lot of setup

gunpowder - lots of setup

bunnymen - lots of setup

Wolfgang...

One of these things is not like the others...

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

catapults - lot of setup

gunpowder - lots of setup

bunnymen - lots of setup

Wolfgang...

One of these things is not like the others...

So your saying it takes more time to setup catapults than growing peppers, hunting volt goats and praying for rain for that supposedly game breaking 6x damage?

Forgot to add character swapping and bundling getting bundling wraps so you can keep the food on the ready

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

So your saying it takes more time to setup catapults than growing peppers, hunting volt goats and praying for rain for that supposedly game breaking 6x damage?

I'm saying Wolfgang gets a 2x multiplier out the gate, and a speed boost - which both scale with all other damage and speed modifiers.  Its a very hefty damage boost that lets him shred bosses like no other character can.  You can say you don't think that is OP, that's okay, but acting like he doesn't have a massive amount of damage is just dishonest.

Same as the ppl who act like Wendy has somehow taken over the game from Wolfgang, like yeah Abi helps a lot, she does a lot on her own, but Abi isn't a boss slayer.  Like we can talk about this and be honest, right?

And this is 100% beside the point of whether Wolfgang is OP or not because really, that's a matter of opinion.  You might think Wolfgang is fine to have a massive amount of damage, or you might think that's a problem.  But lets not pretend he's weak lol look up any speedrun and you'll see he's still the star of the show is almost every take lol

[Mysterious box]

21 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I'm saying Wolfgang gets a 2x multiplier out the gate, and a speed boost - which both scale with all other damage and speed modifiers.  Its a very hefty damage boost that lets him shred bosses like no other character can.  You can say you don't think that is OP, that's okay, but acting like he doesn't have a massive amount of damage is just dishonest.

Same as the ppl who act like Wendy has somehow taken over the game from Wolfgang, like yeah Abi helps a lot, she does a lot on her own, but Abi isn't a boss slayer.  Like we can talk about this and be honest, right?

And this is 100% beside the point of whether Wolfgang is OP or not because really, that's a matter of opinion.  You might think Wolfgang is fine to have a massive amount of damage, or you might think that's a problem.  But lets not pretend he's weak lol look up any speedrun and you'll see he's still the star of the show is almost every take lol

Out the gate Wolfgang hits as hard as 2 non combat based characters in other words in this multiplayer game hit hits as hard as 2 people who arent wigfrid, wendy, or Warly mid game which is far from game breaking you can't tell me that anyone would even consider Wolfgang if you nerfed his damage when compared to the rest of the cast. Most of the Wolfgang is op comes from people making use of shared perks which at the end of the day isn't his power is he stronger in damage than other player characters? Yes is he the fastest character for movement? No does he offer anything outside of dealing 2x more damage to mobs which again is easily replaced by other methods or playing the game as intended? No. Not saying he's weak I'm saying when it comes to teamplay the main offerin of DST he doesn't offer much at all.

[Yuuko]

25 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Out the gate Wolfgang hits as hard as 2 non combat based characters in other words in this multiplayer game hit hits as hard as 2 people who arent wigfrid, wendy, or Warly mid game which is far from game breaking you can't tell me that anyone would even consider Wolfgang if you nerfed his damage when compared to the rest of the cast. Most of the Wolfgang is op comes from people making use of shared perks which at the end of the day isn't his power is he stronger in damage than other player characters? Yes is he the fastest character for movement? No does he offer anything outside of dealing 2x more damage to mobs which again is easily replaced by other methods or playing the game as intended? No. Not saying he's weak I'm saying when it comes to teamplay the main offerin of DST he doesn't offer much at all.

Wolfgang gets a 100% damage increase in mighty form, what 2 other characters do that, and how much do you think Wigfrid, Wendy, and Warly do that they outclass THAT? lol

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Wolfgang gets a 100% damage increase in mighty form, what 2 other characters do that, and how much do you think Wigfrid, Wendy, and Warly do that they outclass THAT? lol

Didn't say anyone else does that but wendy spreads her damage increase across multiple characters while providing other sources of damage, Warly's dishes can be used by everyone making the overall damage much higher when you add more characters while also allowing the team to ignore weather conditions and time of day, wigfrid has boosted defense, life leeching and various party buffs applied while a group is fighting a boss. Then you have Wolfgang who hits 2x harder than 1 wilson.

[minespatch]

I think wx should be next due to story.

[W0l0l0]

12 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

dragonfly is the only noteworthy time saver a damage multiplier gives you and even then her drops aren't fantastic, all the other bosses can be killed in ways that barely require you hit them yourself and the time saved fighting small/medium mobs like pigs or clockworks is minimal

How about fighting depth worms, hound attacks, nightmare waves in the ruins, spider insta killing, pig farming, Toadstool? The difference between two shotting a 100 health mob vs one shotting them is huge. At least in solo play, I don't think Wolfgang is nearly as good with 3+ people. If 2* damage modifier is so insignificant, doesn't that mean reducing it for more utility in another area won't be a bad change? 

12 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

wolfgang's higher hunger drain also greatly counteracts his speed boost; it's still a net gain of time in a lot of scenarios but if you aren't moving a lot you will actually waste more time than a wilson would, not to mention that wolf really struggles to outrun a domesticated beefalo

Speed boost is a speed boost. And for such a low cost whilst you're doing double damage is definitely not a bad deal at all. Though I can definitely agree going into mighty purely for the purposes of faster speed does sound inefficient. 

[Keller Max]

Don't forget that reduced time to kill stuff saves you a lot of resources in many situations.