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Serious analysis about the usefulness of Wes


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The title is not a joke...

I'm the one who think Wes still needs his own unique ability in returns of the hard disadvantages of his character. But even in the current state Wes might be surprisingly a biiit more useful than other characters in a few situations. Wes' damage multiplier and tool efficiency is 0.75 (75%), but in returns he can use his weapons and tools 33% more. This is not useful in most of situations, but when using specific weapons and tools he can actually slightly more useful than others. There are currently a few items actually viable for Wes. I tested almost every kinds of tools and weapons with special ability, but disappointingly, the items that does not affected by Wes' durability perk is far more than the items does affected. Here's 4 weapons which makes Wes slightly more useful :

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Firstly Ice and fire staff. Wes can use those staffs 27 times (7 times more) without taking any disadvantage. You don't require more hits to freeze the same enemy.

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Secondly bat bat. Wes can use bat bat 100 times (25 times more), can heal 170 hp (6.8 * 25) more than normal. 

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Thirdly thulecite club. Wes can use club 267 times (67 times more), deal approximately 1500 total damage more (16500 -> 18000 total damage with one thulcite club, but still a joke to Wolfgang)

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Lastly tail o' three cats. This weapon make mobs lose their aggro with a low chance per hit. Not a good weapon but Wes can use it longer than others.

Those four items are all as far as I know. Not that many, but if you have a moment to play Wes you can take advantage of it. Also Wigfrid's battle song "Weaponized Warble" can provides almost similar effect, but it can only be used by limited combat situations and doesn't affect tool durability, and Wigfrid's 1.25 damage multiplier doesn't affect on shadow tentacles.

And here's a list of items that doesn't affected by Wes :

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Oars, Watering cans, Garden hoes, Shovels, Pitchfork, Brush, Luxury fan, Pan flute, Weather pain, Telelocator staff, Fishing rod, Strident trident (right click), The lazy explorer, Star caller's staff and Deconstruction staff. (besides armors, clothes, amulets and equippable light sources)

As you see, Wes' perk to have more tool durability is a little bit inconsistent at this point. So I suggest Wes' durability perk affected to some of the magic items too. This perk has very good potential to become more interesting and 33% more durability isn't that overpowered and you still cannot spam using items, this change can make Wes actually enjoyable challenge character for players who loves to use those magic items and tools.  Some still says expecting usefulness from Wes is silly, but what's the bad reason for giving an enjoyable, unique perk to Wes in his actual "character rework"? I suppose reworks are focused on spotlighting the underrated characters, and Wes has been neglected for more than 6 years since the release of DST. I just sincerely wanna see many players actually enjoy playing Wes, and don't want to see Wes neglected again like before the refresh, considered as "hard but not fun to play". Wes also needs unique ability to choose diverse strategies differentiated from other characters.

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29 minutes ago, HeatAndRun said:

I just sincerely wanna see many players actually enjoy playing Wes, and don't want to see Wes neglected again like before the refresh, considered as "hard but not fun to play". Wes also needs unique ability to choose diverse strategies differentiated from other characters.

I don't think this description fits Wes anymore. The new traits Klei gave him make him one of the more unique characters in the game, and a great fit for a "challenge" character in this multiplayer game. I've had a ton of fun playing him ever since the rework came out.

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1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

Those four items are all as far as I know. Not that many, but if you have a moment to play Wes you can take advantage of it.

Everything can have more durability depending on situations. For example, a dark sword will twoshot spiders and threeshot hounds whether it does 51 or 68 damage so a dark sword used against spiders or hounds would just last 33% longer. Apparently due to rounding or something  his tools are also slightly more efficient, Misuto says that he can get 20.6 logs per flint axe against medium trees instead of 20.

Everything with a single action also gets the full 33% bonus. 

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

As you see, Wes' perk to have more tool durability is a little bit inconsistent at this point.

No it's not. It's not inconsistent at all. He is 25% worse at the chop, mine, hammer, and fight action so he uses 25% less durability with the chop, mine, hammer, and fight option. Are you suggesting he should paddle 25% slower, water 25% slower, play music 25% slower, etc?

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

I just sincerely wanna see many players actually enjoy playing Wes, and don't want to see Wes neglected again like before the refresh, considered as "hard but not fun to play". Wes also needs unique ability to choose diverse strategies differentiated from other characters.

And he already has all of that, you just haven't played him enough to see that and are instead obsessing over his minor durability perk instead.

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51 minutes ago, Electroely said:

I don't think this description fits Wes anymore. The new traits Klei gave him make him one of the more unique characters in the game, and a great fit for a "challenge" character in this multiplayer game. I've had a ton of fun playing him ever since the rework came out.

is certainly way more fun now but imo is sad to see how little tools they added when, basically, they didnt even needed to think the idea. Was suggested many times so they could though more balloon tools that will really help others like the sanity ones (really good for a multiplayer enviroment)

it only adds 4 balloons: 1 is situational (the jacket which is good but so situational), the speedy balloon (great but useless after winter unless you aren in a pub with many players), the hat which is fine but only useful in spring

they added the pantomime skins instead of adding it as a perk (maybe was hard to implement in a correct way), they discarted the armor and sword balloon showed in the stream

great rework but it could be much funnier

just my 2cents

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While I don't agree that his durability reduction should be expanded upon I do think he deserves more utility.

Lots of Utility doesn't mean a character will become broken/overpowered, overlap with other characters, or have unnecessary padding. Utility can mean a character is versatile, flexible, and most importantly, fun. Wes, in my opinion, has 2 good utility perks, 1 niche, and 1 useless. We know Klei wants to make Wes a challenge character to please its fans but does that mean he cant be more fleshed out?

Just throwing that out there. It's a lost cause for sure. Some characters will have a dozen utility perks and some will have 4. In the end Klei doesn't care for balance or treating every character fairly, oh well. 

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1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

While I don't agree that his durability reduction should be expanded upon I do think he deserves more utility.

Lots of Utility doesn't mean a character will become broken/overpowered, overlap with other characters, or have unnecessary padding. Utility can mean a character is versatile, flexible, and most importantly, fun. Wes, in my opinion, has 2 good utility perks, 1 niche, and 1 useless. We know Klei wants to make Wes a challenge character to please its fans but does that mean he cant be more fleshed out?

Just throwing that out there. It's a lost cause for sure. Some characters will have a dozen utility perks and some will have 4. In the end Klei doesn't care for balance or treating every character fairly, oh well. 

Personally, I just wish they did more. The entire rework feels half-assed. They added 4 new items, two of which are actually useful, and one of those two (the Speed Balloon) can just be ditched after Winter hits for the Walking Cane. They didn't even change the normal balloons either, so those are still just useless. 
I'm not saying this to say you can't have fun with Wes, because the Party Balloon and Speed Balloon are definitely cool things to have, but with how they gave Woodie two new were-animal forms and Wigfrid the inspiration mechanic, I feel like they could've done so much more with him. Especially when they just ignored the regular balloons.

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1 hour ago, Beehawk said:

Personally, I just wish they did more. The entire rework feels half-assed. They added 4 new items, two of which are actually useful, and one of those two (the Speed Balloon) can just be ditched after Winter hits for the Walking Cane. They didn't even change the normal balloons either, so those are still just useless. 
I'm not saying this to say you can't have fun with Wes, because the Party Balloon and Speed Balloon are definitely cool things to have, but with how they gave Woodie two new were-animal forms and Wigfrid the inspiration mechanic, I feel like they could've done so much more with him. Especially when they just ignored the regular balloons.

Wes' rework is a lot more interesting than Wigfrid's. I don't know know why you think a pair of balloons that you can use in various interesting ways is so dumb and boring but "+Sanity on hit! +Health on hit!" is super cool and amazing.

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1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

Wes' rework is a lot more interesting than Wigfrid's. I don't know know why you think a pair of balloons that you can use in various interesting ways is so dumb and boring but "+Sanity on hit! +Health on hit!" is super cool and amazing.

isnt much difference between giving life leech buff to giving speed buff

wigfrid refresh also bring crowd crontrol songs which gives room to teamwork tactics

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I seriously and honestly just want a “Fly Balloon” add it as another Craftable balloon.. let it cost more Sanity to craft or something- but it’s main use is to float small distances over streams of water- Instead of building a Boat Kit to plop down in a Stream.... we should be utilizing characters and their unique abilities & this would be just one more “thing” Wes could have that wouldn’t make him OP.. but would make him more useful.

Got a Boat that just barely floated away from shore and you don’t want to build a second boat to go fetch it? Wes.. Craft Fly Balloon, Float: Recover Boat.

I really don’t see why they won’t let Wes have a “Fly Balloon” it makes me sad.. :( 

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1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Wes' rework is a lot more interesting than Wigfrid's. I don't know know why you think a pair of balloons that you can use in various interesting ways is so dumb and boring but "+Sanity on hit! +Health on hit!" is super cool and amazing.

Where did I say it was dumb and boring? In fact, I even said:

3 hours ago, Beehawk said:

the Party Balloon and Speed Balloon are definitely cool things to have

My point wasn't that Wigfrid and Woodie's rework were interesting, my point was the size of the changes they gave them. In no way can you say the Wes rework was on the same level as Woodie's. Why are you mentioning the sanity and health gain she gets in combat when I specifically mentioned the inspiration mechanic, NOT the sanity and health gain?

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17 minutes ago, Beehawk said:

My point wasn't that Wigfrid and Woodie's rework were interesting, my point was the size of the changes they gave them. In no way can you say the Wes rework was on the same level as Woodie's.

Oh yes I most certainly can. Woodie's rework was simply splitting the werebeaver into two parts, and adding a weird walking cane. He already had everything (In DSA at least before they nerfed him in DST) that rework added except the goose form and I guess the charge. Wes has never had anything remotely similar to anything he currently has in his rework, and his party balloon is one of a kind. Sure, Woodie can chop trees better and fight better. But so can Wendy, Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Maxwell, and Wurt. Who can generate infinite amounts of sanity from nothing at any time and any place? Who can store their sanity for later? No one has anything like this, the closest would be Wormwood being able to manage his own sanity and no one else's, but even he doesn't really come close to what Wes can do with the party balloon.

The party balloon is the most interesting and unique thing added in any rework.

17 minutes ago, Beehawk said:

Why are you mentioning the sanity and health gain she gets in combat when I specifically mentioned the inspiration mechanic, NOT the sanity and health gain?

Because that's not interesting? Who cares that you fill a meter up to get the effects? The effects are what actually does stuff.

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Yea, as many state, I wish they did a tad bit more with the balloons. I enjoy the reworked Wes as by all means he has a much more distinguished gameplay than before. Yet, so many balloonomacy ideas have been circulating in the forums for ages and while Speed and Party balloons make very interesting additions for sure, I wish we got some more. Especially the suggestions like Balloon Saddle, Balloon Sword, Balloon Armor, Flight Balloon and Balloon Cake could have made him even more fun and interesting.

They likely wont do it as it doesn't make much financial sense but I wish they occasionally returned to some of the past reworks and added tiny bit more stuff. They only ever did such a thing with Warly's rework, giving him salt spice, which they likely had planned before but didn't implement yet due to salt not being in the game. It'd be so great if in a content/QoL update, Klei tweaked some past reworked characters like giving Winona a giant produce battery, changing the attributes of Wigfrid's fireproof falsetto and gave Wes some more utility balloons. 

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1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

Oh yes I most certainly can. Woodie's rework was simply splitting the werebeaver into two parts, and adding a weird walking cane. He already had everything (In DSA at least before they nerfed him in DST) that rework added except the goose form and I guess the charge. Wes has never had anything remotely similar to anything he currently has in his rework, and his party balloon is one of a kind. Sure, Woodie can chop trees better and fight better. But so can Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Maxwell, and Wurt. Who can generate infinite amounts of sanity? Who can store their sanity for later? No one has anything like this, the closest would be Wormwood being able to manage his own sanity and no one else's, but even he doesn't really come close to what Wes can do with the party balloon.

The party balloon is the most interesting and unique thing added in any rework.

Because that's not interesting? Who cares that you fill a meter up to get the effects? The effects are what actually does stuff.

Could you say that the Party balloon is interesting? Sure. That's fine, you're right about that. But adding only 4 new items, two of which don't do much and only one of the two others is useful after winter, and then nerfing him wouldn't be something I'd say is on par with other reworks. 

Also, when I said the Inspiration mechanic, I was talking about the entire thing. Not just the meter.

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1 minute ago, Beehawk said:

Could you say that the Party balloon is interesting? Sure. That's fine, you're right about that. But adding only 4 new items, two of which don't do much and only one of the two others is useful after winter, and then nerfing him wouldn't be something I'd say is on par with other reworks. 

Also, when I said the Inspiration mechanic, I was talking about the entire thing. Not just the meter.

Wes getting 4 items is more than the 3 items Woodie got, especially considering 2 of them were basically already things he had.

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3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wes getting 4 items is more than the 3 items Woodie got, especially considering 2 of them were basically already things he had.

Except Woodie still got those two new forms. Even if they're a split of the original werebeaver, the werebeaver didn't have abilities such as charging like with the weremoose. Getting 3 items and 2 new forms is better than 4 items. Also, that doesn't change my point at all.

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Just now, Beehawk said:

Except Woodie still got those two new forms. Even if they're a split of the original werebeaver, the werebeaver didn't have abilities such as charging like with the weremoose. Getting 3 items and 2 new forms is better than 4 items.

He didn't get 3 items and 2 forms, he just got 3 items to turn into the forms. At best he got the moose & goose form, which is two things, the same amount you're complaining Wes got. But Wes also got a bunch of passives like the reduced durability usage...

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Just now, Cheggf said:

He didn't get 3 items and 2 forms, he just got 3 items to turn into the forms. At best he got the moose & goose form, which is two things, the same amount you're complaining Wes got. But Wes also got a bunch of passives like the reduced durability usage...

So he didn't get X, he just got Y to get X. 
That's such a stretch, and it still doesn't change my point that they could've done more with him, not to mention the fact that Klei completely ignored the normal balloons.

2 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

But Wes also got a bunch of passives like the reduced durability usage...

You mean these?

Quote
  • Hounds waves will focus more on Wes than the other survivors.
  • Is more susceptible to overheating and freezing
  • Takes longer to recover from grogginess
  • Has a higher chance of being struck by lightning

Other than the hound waves (which is a hard maybe), I don't see how these are worth mentioning at all. They're just nerfs, and they don't offer anything that's worth talking about.

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A flying Balloon would serve very little use outside of floating short distances.. totally useless in combat (speedy balloon would likely be better for that..) only good for short distances across gaps before the balloons either slip out his hands and fly off screen, burst and he crashes on his butt.. or runs out of air etc..

The one character who has Balloons as his gimmick.. and we don’t get this? I gotta say I’m pretty sad about it. :wilson_cry:

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Actually i loved wes personality and i always want to see him with fun and enjıyable play style but with new rework, he calling "challange" why i supposed to  be challange? I can get challanges with mods, unlucky for me i was waiting for wes rework for new style now i faced to boring gameplay. I wont play wes anymore, i hope other survivors get better rework. 

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Hi everyone ! Personally, I always loved Wes and was more than happy when they reworked him, where I absolutely love the new balloonmancy tab, I feel like they could have gave him way more utility, or more, impactful perks.

I absolutely love the nerfs about the stats, the hounds waves, the freezing and heating, the grogginess, the higher chances of being struck by lightning, they actually are rather something big, like, you feel all of those cons, and, in term of perks, the increased durability on tools and all is very very cool I really like it ! But the balloonmancy tab feels really underwhelming, the party balloon is kinda ok, the balloon hat and vest is very nice, niche use but very cool, the speedy balloon is just first autumn walking cane if you can't get a thulecite club if you're a ruin rusher or a cheap flare.

But anyway,  I'm pretty sure that Klei won't update anything about Wes, but, I must say, I hoped that Wes will be even more of a challenge than before (which is the case right now, the new stats are awesome !) but, I wished that he was more useful to the team too, I would have been absolutely stunned to see, something like what the Forge and the Gorge gave us but for vanilla DST, like, Wes having a big aggro on mobs like, very hard to lose it, or, still being a very good trader, like, eventually, with pig king, Antlion, and, Merm King ? (I know that the last one is really niche, but, the first one would have been stunning for some boss fights with friends.)

TL;DR : I love what Klei did, but I feel that it's underwhelming, so, I shared my ideas about eventually port the Forge and Gorge perks to survival DST. 

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21 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

I personally don't like how they updated Wes before the much needed Webber update. Or heck, even Maxwell. But who am I to say anything. 

 

Sincerely,

Cactus

Weeber is totally a playable character that is strong alone and useful with team mates. Meanwhile wes was a polemic character since some people though that it was unfair that he eat more and didnt bring anything to the team (when it is all about players fault) so they added teamwork perks, removed leecher ones like extra hunger and needing to waste more resources to work and fight meanwhile they did him more challenging. All of this to keep the joke they started the 1st april of the last year.

I see him in more need than a useful character like webber which people only want his rework because other characters get 3848281 perks

I even wish they refresh maxwell before for the same reason as they did the wes refresh. His workers might disturb other players since they go on automatic

Sincerely,

Arubaro 

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2 hours ago, Remps said:

Actually i loved wes personality and i always want to see him with fun and enjıyable play style but with new rework, he calling "challange" why i supposed to  be challange? I can get challanges with mods, unlucky for me i was waiting for wes rework for new style now i faced to boring gameplay. I wont play wes anymore, i hope other survivors get better rework. 

Console players can't have mods. Just because you don't want the game to be hard you think no one should have the option? There's 16 non-challenge character and just 1 single challenge character. If you don't want a challenge just play the other 94% of the roster.

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