Why still no Air Lock module after several years?

[Technoincubus]

5 hours ago, RageLeague said:

Liquid lock comes with a hefty price of the soggy feet or sopping wet debuff, depending on the implementation. In addition, you cannot use liquid locks to seal rooms and form specialized rooms.

But you can. By placing a simple door there.

[marioespinho]

15 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

The point is that liquid airlock is ridiculously easy to make. it requires zero research, next to no worktime. It is endlessly easier than any air tube or pump solutions.

Dedicated airlock can use resources, resin or fibers or else. And power. Why can't we have such building? Yyou want challenge? Noproblem - don't use it! Problem solved.

I'm sorry but i don't really understand your stance on this. You claim that the liquid airlocks are too easy to make, so we need some airlock that is harder. But then you say that if we "want challenge" we should just not use that same airlock?

Also, the "Yyou want challenge? Noproblem - don't use it! Problem solved" could also be applied to people that want real airlocks implemented. You can just hop over to the workshop and download a real airlock there. Or you can just create a real airlock that has pumps, automation and whatnot.

In my eyes, this is also a game about creating your own setups that work, instead of having a building for everything. That's why we don't have a building to act as a SPOM, or one that acts as a sour gas boiler, a volcano tamer, etc etc etc. One of the fun aspects of the game is coming up with setups that do these kind of things.

[misotoma]

I guess Klei said, it's easier to make a liquid lock than to try to make pixelated design for an airlock building. But you're right.. imagine a dupe carrying molten rock into the lock, drops it and good bye vacuumed room or whatever. I guess you're right.. A dedicated  solid air lock would not be a bad thing to have in this game. There's always that added danger of losing said lock.. which idk about everyone else but if that happened in my maps.. dupes would die.

[cpy]

Don't you guys have viscogel? You have viscogel right?

[Technoincubus]

By this logic we shouldn't have

- Robo-Miner because we can  dig it with dupes.

- Conveyors, because dupes can move things manually.

- Sweepy because dupes can sweep manually

- Pumps because dupes may use pitcher pump and deliver bottles

etc. Automation in a game with the goal of automating everything and everyone is natural. It's like arguing about being able to drag select units in Starctraft instead of ordering units one by one manually.

[Niil945]

I think it's a tad silly that we start the game using liquid locks and end the game also using those same liquid locks but with different liquids due to temperature requirements. There should be a tech version of an airlock. Those technologies are things we already have and this is a sci-fi game. And transit tubes aren't an answer as they are heavily temperature limited due to being comprised of plastic. The other alternative is to allow us to make transit tubes out of another material that doesn't melt in higher temperatures. That said I'm not heartbroken if they don't add one because I can just mod the game for one if I want it.

[Artorias36]

I wonder how many people would disagree if one day Klei decides that water lock stops working, for example when a dupe gets in. I am pretty sure they will ask for an airlock.

By the way transite tube are not the answer. Why wasting a crap ton of energy when you can use a water lock for free?

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, Technoincubus said:

By this logic we shouldn't have

- Robo-Miner because we can  dig it with dupes.

- Conveyors, because dupes can move things manually.

- Sweepy because dupes can sweep manually

- Pumps because dupes may use pitcher pump and deliver bottles

etc. Automation in a game with the goal of automating everything and everyone is natural. It's like arguing about being able to drag select units in Starctraft instead of ordering units one by one manually.

Those are not very good examples since all of them have drawbacks. An airlock would just be free gas transfer prevention aside from a small power consumption every time a dupe walked in.  Even a liquid lock has more drawbacks than that.

 

We could also take the other extreme of your logic and say that we need :

- A steam maker because we have rockets that use steam.

- A gas to liquid hidrogen machine because rockets use that too.

- An effective cooling station so we can stop using cooling loops.

- Volcano tamers

- etc. etc. etc.

Notice that i'm not against any type of airlock, i just don't see it as a problem either.

38 minutes ago, Artorias36 said:

I wonder how many people would disagree if one day Klei decides that water lock stops working, for example when a dupe gets in. I am pretty sure they will ask for an airlock.

By the way transite tube are not the answer. Why wasting a crap ton of energy when you can use a water lock for free?

If klei decided that water locks wouldn't work anymore, we would find a new setup that worked. That is the whole point of this game.

Your last sentence sums up my whole point on this. If they added something too hard to use, people would just use liquid locks anyway, if they added something simple, it would be too easy.

[Technoincubus]

They could add something more compact that people WILL use. It's like yuo don't have to power mech doors for automation to work and noone actually powers them most of the time.

[KonfigSys]

There is a mod for the airlock. I started using it and I love it a lot. It helps to make the bases very neat.

It works in DLC too. As it creates a perfect seal you can use it for thermal insulation also (having vacuum in between two airlocks).

I have done dozens of viscogel airlocks and it is not a challenge anymore but just a boring step which I was so happy to jump over.

[RonEmpire]

Transit tube is essentially an airlock.  That  was my comment.  Somebody said  they wouldn't used it because liquid locks are cheaper and doesn't require power.  Exactly.   I don't use transit tube.  I use liquid locks.  It's cheap.  Only problem with liquid locks is the tempature.  In a cold environment the liquid can freeze.  Or in a hot environment the liquid can change to gas phase. 

Nothing is really free is it.  You get what you pay for. 

 

Reason I mention transit tube is because   it's an airlock that requires power.     And if you asked Klei to give you one,  they will probably give you something that will require power.  But that's the same as using the transit tube.   You asked for an air lock but don't want to spend the power.      Visceral gel  is your other alternative.          Or make your own with the machines that exist.  At the end of the day it requires power to pump. 

[Gurgel]

3 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

Transit tube is essentially an airlock.  That  was my comment.  Somebody said  they wouldn't used it because liquid locks are cheaper and doesn't require power.  Exactly.   I don't use transit tube.  I use liquid locks.  It's cheap.  Only problem with liquid locks is the tempature.  In a cold environment the liquid can freeze.  Or in a hot environment the liquid can change to gas phase. 

Liquid locks have hidden complexity, which makes them a good design in the ONI context. I have had to cool or heat them as well. 

[Artorias36]

No. The difference between transit tubes and a good airlock is not just the amount of power used but the fact that an air lock should require a pump and some automated door, basic research and not plastic. Transit tube's main function is to move dupes around and not to prevent gas mixtures. I mean the dupes go in space, it is impossiible to not accept a simple concept of the classical seal building that we see in sci-fi movies on the spaceships.

If the airlock would require just the power of a pump and 2 automated door, then yeah i would totaly use it even thou liquid lock is still cheaper, because i waste less time to build it rather than bulding a B.E and deliver water or two type of liquids.

 

[marioespinho]

Implementing a real, easy to use, airlock would just make one of the main concepts of oni obsolete, gas transfer. I believe that Klei never implemented it, because having such a building just trivializes most problems we could have with gases mixing, specially when we dig out new biomes.

Yes it makes sense in a real life example of a space setting, but in an oni setting, where almost everything has a drawback or way to fail, such a building sounds way too strong, having no way to fail apart from not working due to lack of power.

[cpy]

Viscogel is nice for basic use but when you want madlad airlocks for very cool or very hot rooms then it's a problem, but for the most part use viscogel.

[babba]

7 minutes ago, cpy said:

Viscogel is nice for basic use but when you want madlad airlocks for very cool or very hot rooms then it's a problem, but for the most part use viscogel.

Is Viscogel the Vaseline of ONI

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Technoincubus]

4 hours ago, marioespinho said:

Implementing a real, easy to use, airlock would just make one of the main concepts of oni obsolete, gas transfer. I believe that Klei never implemented it, because having such a building just trivializes most problems we could have with gases mixing, specially when we dig out new biomes.

But we are talking about the problem that is already trivialized to maximum - liquid airlock prevents that very gas transfer with such negligable drawbacks, that everything else pales in comparison.

- zero tech tier. No research needed.

- Occupies next to no space

- Costs nothing but 1t of water

 

[Yunru]

1 hour ago, Technoincubus said:

But we are talking about the problem that is already trivialized to maximum - liquid airlock prevents that very gas transfer with such negligable drawbacks, that everything else pales in comparison.

- zero tech tier. No research needed.

- Occupies next to no space

- Costs nothing but 1t of water

 

- Is limited to the temperature range of the fluid at which it remains liquid. 

 

Funny how you leave off a massive disadvantage that a proper airlock lacks. 

[marioespinho]

1 hour ago, Technoincubus said:

But we are talking about the problem that is already trivialized to maximum - liquid airlock prevents that very gas transfer with such negligable drawbacks, that everything else pales in comparison.

- zero tech tier. No research needed.

- Occupies next to no space

- Costs nothing but 1t of water

 

- Liquid can freeze or evaporate messing the whole thing up, without a warning even.

- It also gives either soggy feet or sopping wet debuffs unless you are in atmo suits.

- Probably occupies more space than a real airlock would.

 

Tech tier, to me, is irrelevant, since no one builds locks at the start anyway. Apart from power requirement, what disadvantages would a real airlock have?

[The Plum Gate]

Maybe a two by two tile one-at-a-time powered thing that works like those configurations we already have using three doors.

The problem with it is the automation either locks or opens the doors.

I don't disagree with the liquid locks in room temperature space. My dupes have showers and I seldom need a lock when I'm properly managing spaces to begin with.

But space is another story. And I think it would be nice to get a jumbo sized lock that can pull the gasses out and push them to the outside.

The effect would be comparable to the former O2 gas mask station effect - pulling in massive amounts of air quickly.

[Technoincubus]

25 minutes ago, Yunru said:

- Is limited to the temperature range of the fluid at which it remains liquid. 

 

Funny how you leave off a massive disadvantage that a proper airlock lacks. 

By the time you reach said temperatures you will also reach liquids fitting to work in said temperatures as well.

 

[Yunru]

41 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

By the time you reach said temperatures you will also reach liquids fitting to work in said temperatures as well.

 

I too remember when I encountered my first steam vent and was like "Ah yes, this is fine, my petrol from the oil biome will suffice."

[Dubiday]

I don't want to download a mod to have something that should, in my opinion, be added to the game. There are many players like op and me that want an airlock building because it would look so much nicer than liquid airlocks everywhere and because we are so bored of making them. I've build way too many, from early to late game, destroying my base layout. I'm done watching dupes bringing more liquid again and again.

The fact that liquid airlocks exist and are so efficient make transit tubes and door-timer-pump setups uninteresting. I'm pretty sure Klei thought transit tubes would solve the issue but it doesn't.

You can't compare volcano tamers and other advanced setups to liquid airlocks as there is no ugly, cheesy and easy to make but time consumming ways of making them.

Besides, I think new players are confused and don't understand how to separate two rooms. I started playing ONI just before the thermal upgrade and I remember searching for a way to make airlocks and wondering if there's a building availaible. I was confused, and still remain confused today.

[Swoop5994]

To me airlocks who dont let anything pass trough have to be more than a single ''door''
here's my view of why simple problems can have funny complicated solutions...i personally never use the typic liquid locks since i think its a  loss of space and they are ugly there is alot of cheese in this type of game but almost all of thems are choices to ''exploit'' a mechanic or not i rather use mechanical approach with 2 doors airpump and automation.Not very different than a Air shower when you enter a place like Nasa labs or microbiology labs ect...

Btw visco-gel and vacuum sass's are awesome to look at.I believe or even a droplet vacuum pump with chlorine to disinfect and vacuum the space. so many Options...Sometimes funky way of doing things is the best and sometimes it's only making a game harder and less boring. Complicated solutions to basic problems are to me another way that Oni is the only game im not getting bored off.

i could talk a bit about a useless contraption i had fun building and try. click the spoiler tag if interested.

Spoiler

These vacuum waterfalls don't make dupes wet for example. will i use some kind of similar build in a late-game ? probably not. but not because dupes are staying dry while jumping over the liquid flow ,Oh yeah and i have to mention that vacuum occupy the space between the yellow doors so any Hot stuff dropped there would not radiate to the waterflow and since the dupe jump over a pit the water does not touch them at all (they kind of teleport) yup cheesy.
piss and vomit on the other hand Could have an effect if released inside the build (still working on solutions for fun) 

On  the picture you can see i put a tiny bit of automation to let center liquid flow if one/both of the outer flows are compromised (some type of safety that is in the middle of action on this screenshot) and the top of each side is having tile pumps to pull back the gazes that might have entered each side.
I replaced the water with Brine and tried some funny automation since I built it I might find a way to be sure that it is reliable at the moment im playing with sensors and pressure plate to maybe find a way to make it dupesproof one day.

For now still only a contraption fun to play with while watching the tv.

The only airlock i could see in a futur would be this one :https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2094698134&searchtext=airlock
i love that it is a 3 tiles buid, a bit  slow and need power. Im not sure of it's flaws but i know it's also transfer heat. i dont use it only because i find it a bit OP. 
you can also find the green airlock door as mentioned earlier on the post, in the workshop to stop your headaches and gazes if this what you want.

I do hope to have some sort of Lead constructions interacting with Radiation as vacuum or solid does not stop it. fluid seems to be one of the best option to stop radiations for now...(if i didnt missed anything)

[Sasza22]

Ok, so the issue is that an airlock building needs to be better than a waterlock basically. Waterlocks are a full gas seal for zero power required and can be build in a 1x2 space with 2 liquids or v-gel, or in a 3x3 space using 1 liquid. It`s kinda hard to beat that. Not to mention it can be build with just basic materials early on as well as more advanced ones (insulated tiles, super coolant) to handle higher temperatures. The only drawback is the sopping wet debuff that gets nullified by atmo suits anyway.

So how would a buildable air lock look like if it was this good? It would have to be a single door that`s a full seal, kind of like a rotating tube with the dupe going inside. It would need to not have an overheat temerature and some insulative properties as well as not use too much power (240-360 W range). Still this sort of thing would need research and likely be construed out of refined metal and maybe plastic as well. A 3x2 setup with vacuum between the lock doors would allow for perfect insulation. It would be a lategame "clean" solution but wouldn`t fully replace waterlocks even with all that. This thing would trivialize a lot of stuff similar to how atmo suits do it but would serve as a cleaner design for people that want their bases to look pretty and for new players that have trouble keeping gasses in place.

Another solution would be a 1x2 tile super vacuum pump. Remember how the old gas mask station sucked all the oxygen creating vacuums? We need a pump that can suck in more oxygen than it can pump out. It would hold 6-8 tiles worth of gas in it`s internal storage and create vacuum in seconds which would make a 3 tile wide manual airlock setup completely sealed provided the traffic is low. I think we would gladly use one of those even if it had 480-600W power usage. It could also find uses in oxygen generating setups.