[Game Update] Spaced Out Testing Branch is Open! - 447728

[zach123b]

3 hours ago, Natjur said:

Have they fixed the free steel and diamond yet when you recycle a ship module?

nah, you can still get infinite steel/diamond from deconstructing the cockpit modules

i think the rockets output too much stuff guys.  with a green toggle and a destination to orbit the planet, i get free steam at the cost of a dupe.  that engine is empty of fuel, no steam inside the engine btw.  so steam rocket chimneys are still a thing but are much more efficient now

[Meltdown]

5 hours ago, pether said:

In first case, I really liked how the DLC nerfed them by moving them away from starting asteroid, I don't think we need anything more atm.

I don't think that delaying access to atmosuits qualifies as a nerf. It doesn't change anything about them, just makes you play longer without them. And there are no issues that would make it hard to play without them, either.

With new oxygen masks you don't even need atmosuits outside of some high-temperature regions of asteriods, like oil biome. They are cheap, have resource-free maintenance and awailable as an early game tech.

I think that adding maintenance costs to atmosuits is not a good way to nerf them. Sure, requiring a continuous production to maintain them adds complexity to the system, but it does not address the problem of atmosuit being the universal solution to almost any environmental problem. I love the way similar gear is dealt with in Space Haven - crewmates get fatigued from working in spacesuits and have to get an additional rest. I think adding stamina and stamina recovery penalties to atmosuits (and making those penalties not affected by skills) would be more efficient in terms of nerving them (if there ever was an intent to do it).

On the side note - I hope that lead suits wouldn't be a direct upgrade for atmosuits or vice-versa. I think it would be great to have two sets of gear with different purposes - one with protection exclusively for heat, the other is exclusively for radiation.

[kerosene]

I haven't tested the new atmosuits yet and may change my opinion once I do. I would like to explain why I think that making atmosuits less powerful is good. There are two different approaches to dealing with environmental hazards.

The first is to make your dupes equip atmosuits when they leave their airtight living quarters. Outside of the sealed living quarters, you don't have to care about gas pressure, oxygen supply, temperature, liquids or the hazards of breathing in slimelung or polluted oxygen. It trivializes the game and it's bad.

The second is to build a very open base and as much as possible maintain a livable and safe atmosphere and temperature everywhere your dupes go, only using atmosuits for certain tasks that cannot be done otherwise. With this, you have to build oxygen diffusion systems, control CO2, chlorine and other undesirable gases, be more careful with high temperatures and diseases, be more careful with handling liquids.

The second approach is harder and much more work and it's what in my opinion players should be doing. Will the atmosuit changes be enough to incentivize the second approach?

Edited January 15, 2021 by kerosene

[Meltdown]

25 minutes ago, kerosene said:

Will the atmosuit changes be enough to incentivize the second approach?

From what I observed in the sandbox environment, approximately full cycle of atmosuit usage reduces it's durability by 10%. Fixing atmosuit costs 1 reed fiber. If dupes could stay in atmosuits forever, you would need to produce 0.1 fiber per cycle for each suite to make them sustainable. With dupes removing them to refill oxygen - you would need even less. IMO with current numbers those changes wouldn't even barely incentivize the second approach.

[pether]

8 hours ago, Lbphero said:

i always hated the concept of just being allowed to negate all sorts of environmental flaws in your asteroid save for a tiny little bubble that your dupes sleep in.

agreed that they are really powerfull. but this doesn't change that. current change makes you only wait longer for insulation in best case... in worst - I imagine you can deadlock yourself without reed to fix once-working suit system that you used for making reed.

constant upkeep cost is something that people didn't like in oxygen masks so I doubt it is good idea to nerf suits using upkeep...

maybe we could nerf suits in some different way? like maybe reduce amount of oxygen stored? idk, just random idea

[Steve8]

27 minutes ago, pether said:

constant upkeep cost is something that people didn't like in oxygen masks so I doubt it is good idea to nerf suits using upkeep...

A big part of that was that you needed non-renewable ore for it. Reed fiber is infinite

[Other Micah]

Oxygen masks definitely needed a rework, but durability?  Really?  I don't mind having thimble reed on the third planetoid, as it pushes players to explore the star map.  Adding durability to atmo suits just forces our pcs to do additional work.  Clothing is fine as it appears now, mostly useless?  Ultimately, I'll just mod durability out of the game whether it stops now or progresses with other systems.  I'll be modding out dlc, that I just purchased.  Fun!

[Yunru]

31 minutes ago, Other Micah said:

Adding durability to atmo suits just forces our pcs to do additional work.

"Adding a need for oxygen just forces our pcs to do additional work."

Durability adds continuous use to a building that lacks it, and more motivation to automate in order to free up dupe time.

In terms of actual PC workload, something like durability is one of the simplest systems, since the only calculation involved is a simple subtraction.

[Other Micah]

1 hour ago, Yunru said:

Durability adds continuous use to a building that lacks it, and more motivation to automate 

Which alone generates more complexity, and slows the game.  I understand your argument, the textile loom and exosuit forge don't have a use past initial production.  I just don't believe a durability statistic is necessary, even if it only amounts to a couple of additional auto sweepers.  I don't use sweaters or jet suits now, and this change just further distances me from those tech options.  The only thing it will add to the game is another minute to my save/load times.

 

[0xFADE]

Well that looked like a rocket with some traditional parts.

I guess it depends how fast suit durability goes down.  You could play with the values too once you get radiation and whatever in so some places could degrade suits faster.  Even further you could make suits of different materials more resistant to losing durability.  Make it more interesting than some static constant thing.

[celest-kn]

Maybe the devs can add a modular system to the mask locker(similar to the one for rockets) to give the possibility to add clothing to the locker for warm/cool environments.

Upvote if you like the ideea...

[Yunru]

8 minutes ago, celest-kn said:

Upvote if you like the ideea...

This isn't cancer Reddit.

[celest-kn]

5 hours ago, Yunru said:

This isn't cancer Reddit.

True. My reasoning was the more upvotes an ideea/thread/topic has the bigger the chance to catch the eye of the devs.

[Krestkz]

15 hours ago, Lbphero said:

 

nope! When a dupe returns to a dock with a worn suit, it is automatically requested to put a new one in its place. So all you need to really do is keep an exosuit forge with a worn suit -> regular suit recipe and have sweepers deliver that to where it needs to be. 

I really love this idea, it nerfs atmo suits simply by requiring that you farm reed fiber constantly should you want to use them.

worn suit also Leaves oxygen in bottle - and i have to solve problem with than as well. i swept those atmosuits and dubs took it some storage and they just disappeared...

It is stupid and annoying - i just dropped to play this dlc for a while. Primitive rocket with start toilets, Primitive suit - everything is getting down.  

[zach123b]

On 1/14/2021 at 2:33 PM, Ipsquiggle said:

What does this testing branch contain so far?

Here are the changes we've made so far in this update, loosely categorized:

  Hide contents

 

...

Fixes

• Fixed issue causing small oxidizer tank to have more capacity than intended (2700->300kg)

 

 

why was the capacity intended to be 300kg when both the sucrose engine and the small petrol engine now have capacities of 450kg?  any reason for the nerf to sugar rockets?  300kg sucrose to 450kg sucrose for 2 tiles of range seems unneeded as they're pretty weak already

Edited January 15, 2021 by zach123b
typo

[onislam]

13 hours ago, Meltdown said:

I don't think that delaying access to atmosuits qualifies as a nerf. It doesn't change anything about them, just makes you play longer without them. And there are no issues that would make it hard to play without them, either.

With new oxygen masks you don't even need atmosuits outside of some high-temperature regions of asteriods, like oil biome. They are cheap, have resource-free maintenance and awailable as an early game tech.

I think that adding maintenance costs to atmosuits is not a good way to nerf them. Sure, requiring a continuous production to maintain them adds complexity to the system, but it does not address the problem of atmosuit being the universal solution to almost any environmental problem. I love the way similar gear is dealt with in Space Haven - crewmates get fatigued from working in spacesuits and have to get an additional rest. I think adding stamina and stamina recovery penalties to atmosuits (and making those penalties not affected by skills) would be more efficient in terms of nerving them (if there ever was an intent to do it).

On the side note - I hope that lead suits wouldn't be a direct upgrade for atmosuits or vice-versa. I think it would be great to have two sets of gear with different purposes - one with protection exclusively for heat, the other is exclusively for radiation.

Some of us play on harder difficulties so suits to prevent stress induced death spirals are crucial for preventing soggy feet/soaking wet debuffs

Edited January 15, 2021 by onislam

[zerogamegame]

3 hours ago, onislam said:

Some of us play on harder difficulties so suits to prevent stress induced death spirals are crucial for preventing soggy feet/soaking wet debuffs

This.

Especially we do not have a compact dry airlock or dry insulated passage in the game. (We could design some elaborate plans with automation and close doors vacuum to achieve that, but that is really too much work for an entrance/exit. especially if we wish to prevent gas/liquid lost.)

The atmosuit maintenance also create a major setback for working on another asteroid. It create an unnecessary obstacle for taming or just visiting other asteroids. (which is kind of what this DLC trying to encourage)    

So far I havent fully test out the rate of maintenance, but considering the frequency of atmosuit usage it will be either too fast and become no fun, or too slow and have no impact. We'll see.  

[The Plum Gate]

I really love that we get a crafting table, I hope it opens up other possible recipes down the road.

I also like that such intermittently used buildings might gain a sort of crafting or production room type eventually.

[zach123b]

3 hours ago, zerogamegame said:

So far I havent fully test out the rate of maintenance, but considering the frequency of atmosuit usage it will be either too fast and become no fun, or too slow and have no impact. We'll see.  

it's apparently 10 cycles (continuous) of durability.  so 6000s,  there's already a mod to remove durability on the steam workshop

[zerogamegame]

2 hours ago, zach123b said:

it's apparently 10 cycles (continuous) of durability.  so 6000s,  there's already a mod to remove durability on the steam workshop

Thank you. Then that's sad. The time and space is already very tight when I go for the tungsten and niobium asteroids. Maybe I should build a suit forge on the rocket or the planet. Or maybe just bring 50 suits per every mining trip. Either way it's still absurd.    

[Meltdown]

10 hours ago, onislam said:

Some of us play on harder difficulties so suits to prevent stress induced death spirals are crucial for preventing soggy feet/soaking wet debuffs

I played on higher stress settings. Sure, those debuffs are really slowing down things if you try to combat the stress. But if everything it takes to remove the higher difficulty stress problem (by eluminating the most common debuffs) is getting atmosuits - doesn't it makes their "universal solution" problem worse? You get yourself more difficult settings only to use the same solutions you would normaly use.

[DrPerec]

free steel and diamond are still in the game (when dismantling the astronaut module). what do you think to do with this?
durability not for this game. Its bad idea.

Edited January 16, 2021 by DrPerec

[pether]

6 hours ago, zach123b said:

it's apparently 10 cycles (continuous) of durability.  so 6000s,  there's already a mod to remove durability on the steam workshop

Just to clarify - my mod allows you to configure the speed of suit wear out. You can increase od decrease it, depending what is your prefered playstyle. Removing it durability loss is just one of the options, but if you like the idea and want to hardcore it, you can double or triple its rate. If you are interested, here is the link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2363076984

[sakura_sk]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, Ipsquiggle said:

Oxygen Masks reworked to work more like the previous suit implementations

Are oxygen masks going to accept polluted oxygen in the future (like the station accepted before) or are they just going to be less useful (need more things to be prepared) in swamp start?

[icehot]

3 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

Are oxygen masks going to accept polluted oxygen in the future (like the station accepted before) or are they just going to be less useful (need more things to be prepared) in swamp start?

Definitely this, as they're early game stuff, you may not want to be filtering out pure oxygen yet.

I've been playing the new update all day though, and the durability thing seems alright tbh, it's not that extreme.