What do you think about the RWYS Wormwood changes?

[Milordo]

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You probably don’t play this game on the same settings as I do- so your opinion on what is and isnt useful is not the same as mine- Case in point: If I’m playing with random season start times and season lengths that “Nitre” you claim people just leave laying around is a valuable resource that I need to be fully prepared to have available for the times Summer season starts & ends & starts again.

I would rather use my resources Elsewhere on other items then to use them on healing for Wormwood- ESPECIALLY since Rot is plentiful and everywhere- Where as Nitre, is a rarer resource you’ll want to have on hand for those random summer bursts.

If you play on strictly default settings I guess you can’t see how powerful & viable rot healing can be for Wormwood- instead of wasting your resources you may need for Endo fires or other craftables: You can forgo any extra ingredients and heal with straight up rotten stuff.

Now is it the most EFFECTIVE way of healing? I never said it was.... I said and to put it more clearly: It was the most Simple and easiest to access.

To balance and suggest feedback of your game, you NEED to understand it to the base and SO in the default settings. What are you playing is a customable experience, so no, there aren't opinions for this because if everybody doesn't use the same metric, then i can customize a world full of manure, with mods, PVP ON, chaos and tell to klei that Wormwood is ez, pls nerf poop.

To add the most simple and easiest way to heal with wormwood was and will be always healing salves or sleeping.

I don't want to sound mean to you or everybody who's saying that rot is too easy, but trying to reason and get you to understand, that is not a good viable way of heal breaking my finger for spamming M2 and waiting till my 60's!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, gaymime said:

if you are a fighter i am sure he probably is(was?). again though i play my games with minimal murdering so i am ignorant to a lot of things that revolve around direct combat(i mean, i spent a whle day figuring out how to make guard pigs kill each other while being a ghost. fighting just is not for me, hahaha)

if you dont receive damage you dont need healing so his downside doesnt do anything but in terms of seeing how good or how hard is a character we must take in count all the content. That doesnt mean you play in a bad way or something, just that for certain things, wormwood was harder than a character that can relly on roasted tomatoes, blue caps, etc

[Milordo]

10 minutes ago, gaymime said:

 

maybe not everyone. i havent played new wormy but he was super easy to play before just because i already did most of the things that someone could to do to play him well(sleeping, eating non-optimal foods if they are readily avalible, farming and not picking fights)

Well in the end, that's the meaning of a challenge, isn't? Understand it and overcoming it!!! Good job    

[gaymime]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if you dont receive damage you dont need healing so his downside doesnt do anything but in terms of seeing how good or how hard is a character we must take in count all the content. That doesnt mean you play in a bad way or something, just that for certain things, wormwood was harder than a character that can relly on roasted tomatoes, blue caps, etc

yeeeaaah, you arent wrong but that is for a wormwood main to talk about not someone like me who only plays him once or twice a month for the free sanity and cute(creepy?) skins x''D

[Milordo]

15 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

just curiosity. What do you consider worst healing source than rot? life giving amulet?

I....could ironically write an argument how the healing from the life giving amulet could not be atleast the worst healing possible. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Milordo said:

I....could ironically write an argument how the healing from the life giving amulet could not be atleast the worst healing possible. 

atleast you dont need to right click every 4 seconds xDDD

 

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

yeeeaaah, you arent wrong but that is for a wormwood main to talk about not someone like me who only plays him once or twice a month for the free sanity and cute(creepy?) skins x''D

the thing is that you have fun the our plant boy

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Milordo said:

To balance and suggest feedback of your game, you NEED to understand it to the base and SO in the default settings. What are you playing is a customable experience, so no, there aren't opinions for this because if everybody doesn't use the same metric, then i can customize a world full of manure, with mods, PVP ON, chaos and tell to klei that Wormwood is ez, pls nerf poop.

To add the most simple and easiest way to heal with wormwood was and will be always healing salves or sleeping.

I don't want to sound mean to you or everybody who's saying that rot is too easy, but trying to reason and get you to understand, that is a good viable way of heal breaking my finger for spamming M2 and waiting till my 60's!

Healing salves require rocks and ashes- the ashes you don’t really need... but the rocks: Better left saved for creating permanent campfires with.

Again you’d have to play on Random Seasons and Season Lengths to understand the importance and value behind these items but to each their own.

My entire POINT is that Rot is a resource that is always readily available to Wormwood and can be applied by just picking it up off the ground, he does not need to build pig villages or scout the map for Beefalo to get poop, Rot just sort of accumulates on its own and Everywhere.

You may have had a valid point with Spider Glands- But if your already dangerously low on Health Points you have to either A: Build Traps to capture those Spiders with that require further use of your resources or B: Risk losing even more health to kill them for glands.

ROT however is just ROT and it doesn’t require Nitre, Spider Glands, or Manure in its crafting Recipe it’s just there... and it’s pretty over powered.

But does it need a nerf? no- it just simply takes a character that WAS Challenging to play and makes him significantly less such.

[gaymime]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

atleast you dont need to right click every 4 seconds xDDD

[Ohan]

1 minute ago, BeeClops said:

that's because you have above average experience, for the average dst player Wormwood is much easier now.

And it's so easy to bloom in the first autumn with a few fish and gain the speed boost, so I would say he's easier even for veterans.

i just voted as it pertained to me. Ive said it before (elsewhere) that i think its nice that beginner wormwoods can possibly have an easier time healing now. though i would still strongly advise to just farm glands as soon as u find spider forest and make like 10-15 salves instead of waiting/relying on rot. Thats why idk if i agree with “much” easier since better healing methods have always been available without much effort. Its not like Wormwood needed rot healing to become viable, when free poop healing has also been available since the beginning. Also rot is the most abundant in older worlds so if a player can live that long i would hope they wouldve learned better ways to heal by then xD. At moments where his downside is the most crippling (boss fights) relying on rot or any of the other small fertilizers will really hinder you instead of help. 

The blooming changes were needed/deserved imo. I think the current system just looks extra good because the old blooming was practically useless and only came into play for a few days out of the year. Does this mean players can finally actually make use of this character defining perk more? Yes . If that means its easier for veterans i wont protest  because i believe WW shouldve had the option to force bloom since the beginning. 

in my eyes Blooming now is the new core mechanic of WW (together with living logs ofc) as compensation for making wild planting less unique/character defining.  

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Better left saved for creating permanent campfires with.

you can burn trees to get warm and light

no need to waste 1000 rocks. I dont think you can waste the amount of rocks of the map before the meteor field gets refilled

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Risk losing even more health to kill them for glands.

a spider does arround 4 damage if you wear a low tier armor like log suit

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

significantly less

you can say less but saying significantly is saying too much

3 minutes ago, Ohan said:

 

as always: fun>all

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, gaymime said:

As hilarious as this Meme is: that’s probably another reason I find the rot healing to be highly effective- Playing on Console I’m not using a KB+Mouse, all it takes is simply scrolling to the Rot in your inventory and pressing left on Dpad to heal yourself.. for me as a Wendy Main: It comes as second nature because it’s no different from Summoning/Recalling,Soothing/Riling up Abigail.

Its not a hassle nor an inconvenience to use rot for healing using a Controller Dpad: in actuality it saves you other resources you may need to use Elsewhere, and as I pointed out it’s FREE healing: You don’t have to risk fighting Spiders for glands, Rot is a very passive way to heal up.

It may be more of a hassle with KB+Mouse but using a controller it’s no different from summon/recall Abby.

[Cheggf]

Your Honor, I'd like to present my closing argument.

If it pleases the court, please ignore the stuttering video quality. I don't know why it's doing that, it normally doesn't.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Your Honor, I'd like to present my closing argument.

 

If it pleases the court, please ignore the stuttering video quality. I don't know why it's doing that, it normally doesn't.

love the ending x'D

[Mike23Ua]

I would also like to point out that I see Rot healing roughly the same as Buttefly healing for all non-Wormwood characters (with the obvious exceptions of Wigfrid & Warly) both are a passive way of restoring 4 HP without needing to waste any resources or risk further health damage fighting mobs that can deal health damage.

So that effectively removes- Spiders, Bees, Mosquito and their related craftables etc from the list.

My biggest concern with this is that WHEN or IF Klei ever decides to release a Harder difficulty mode: For example- if ALL Characters could no longer heal from eating food items (this includes the above mentioned butterflies) Wormwood would suddenly outclass them ALL by still having Rot and Fertilizer healing methods. Because they don’t count as “foods” for him 

Now MAYBE I’m just jumping to conclusions and a hardcore mode is never going to come to the game at all... but if it’s even a slight THOUGHT within Klei’s Studio then these are legitimate concerns that have to be discussed..

Wormwoods Rot & Fertilizer healing would have to be removed from such a mode: otherwise he has all the methods of healing available to him that everyone else has via the healing tab PLUS his own methods of heals.

[FairyInABottle]

He was already one of the easiest to play. Free food and free sanity. The buffs weren't necessary.

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

Im inclined to think they might be playing on the forums/wiki instead of in the constant  

 

[ShakerGER]

I really like how this entire thing turned out but to put the final nail in the coffin for the rot argument: You take 12 logs 3 grass and 1 rot, and you can QUADRUPLE the healing rot provides you. Sure it's faster to also put try stuff into the compost, but you actually don't need to...

[cropo]

Wait Rot heals him a lot now? The only thing that really interested me is being able to trigger his bloom manually which is something I really think he should have been able to do from the start.

 

Manure was only worth like 2hp, even if I could heal like 2hp per rot it'd be hot garbage for me. 

 

What I do is just set up a bunnymen(or pig)  empire, plant a spider den, and have like a billion spider glands and make 40 salves that I carry on me at all times, with a batbat on the side for topping off minor HP loss.

 

I just wanted his blooming to be more active and not just on a single season, and they did that...I'm happy pretty much because of that. If they didn't revamp farms and literally only gave Wormwood a way to bloom on your own terms I'd have been happy. 

 

 

I just looked it up and it heals 4hp over 4 seconds, so I guess that's useful if you want to top off your HP over long periods which would remove the need to carry a batbat everywhere for me but they already buffed batbats by making them way more accessible and rot is one of my favorite sources of getting ashes when I am not using it for anything else. Probably won't use rot much even after learning this, honestly don't care if they remove it or not....just let me bloom on my own terms.

[Operator_six]

I have no problems playing Wormwood. But whats the point of making him immune to sanity drain when wet, if everything that he carries becomes wet and causes sanity drain?

[BeeClops]

22 hours ago, Milordo said:

I can agree with the easier part, but still a challenging character in the end for everybody just less hard than before, don't you agree?

I agree, I don't think he's in the easy category now, he's just easier than before; but you're right not by that much, I think he is one of the harder characters for the average public still, bc fighting is an important aspect of the game and I think most struggle with it as wormwood. I guess he is better overall after the update, the speed makes him a lot better for veterans, but nothing broken.

[Milordo]

5 hours ago, Operator_six said:

I have no problems playing Wormwood. But whats the point of making him immune to sanity drain when wet, if everything that he carries becomes wet and causes sanity drain?

Wait, wait, correct me if i'm wrong, but even if items become wet in the inventory it doesn't cause sanity drain, i remember it during my sessions that i had only temperature and slippery malus.

Maybe i was too concentrate to be a happy child because finally we have a character against one of the worst annoyance and difficult part of the game?

[QuartzBeam]

5 hours ago, Operator_six said:

I have no problems playing Wormwood. But whats the point of making him immune to sanity drain when wet, if everything that he carries becomes wet and causes sanity drain?

@Milordo is correct. Wormwood (and Wurt) are immune to the sanity drain from both wetness itself and from using wet equipment.

Also, for the record, wet items only drain sanity when they are equipped. If left in the inventory, they do nothing.

[Cheggf]

44 minutes ago, Milordo said:

i remember it during my sessions that i had only temperature and slippery malus.

Wet perishables spoil 30% faster and wet fuel burns for 25% less time. Wormwood is immune to wetness itself draining sanity as well as worn wet items draining sanity, while Wurt is also immune to wet tools slipping from her hand.

[Mike23Ua]

26 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wet perishables spoil 30% faster and wet fuel burns for 25% less time. Wormwood is immune to wetness itself draining sanity as well as worn wet items draining sanity, while Wurt is also immune to wet tools slipping from her hand.

How do people figure things like this out? is there like some detailed game log that I’m missing out on or something?

and no I sure as HELL do not trust anything that is posted onto a Wiki-Page.. Wiki’s are just too easily editable & people can mess those up.

In Game Stats, detailed descriptions through developer patch notes, Prima Strategy Guide books (yeah..) even an actual physical or digital game manual created by the development team themselves.. Thats information I trust- that’s information I can Rely upon.

And I am grateful that Klei is realizing that NOW by adding actual in game details like the Cookbook, Compendium page & Plant Registry.. those are Official STATS I can trust.

What I can’t trust, is Wikipedia pages or someone other than a developer trying to explain these things to me.

[Cheggf]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

How do people figure things like this out? is there like some detailed game log that I’m missing out on or something?

and no I sure as HELL do not trust anything that is posted onto a Wiki-Page.. Wiki’s are just too easily editable & people can mess those up.

In Game Stats, detailed descriptions through developer patch notes, Prima Strategy Guide books (yeah..) even an actual physical or digital game manual created by the development team themselves.. Thats information I trust- that’s information I can Rely upon.

And I am grateful that Klei is realizing that NOW by adding actual in game details like the Cookbook, Compendium page & Plant Registry.. those are Official STATS I can trust.

What I can’t trust, is Wikipedia pages or someone other than a developer trying to explain these things to me.

It's pretty easy to test. If you don't trust anyone except a developer just go put an item in a fire pit with a stopwatch seeing how long it burns, drop that item in the ocean so it becomes wet, then repeat the test with the wet item. I think the game's just a bunch of lua files on PC so you can probably just read through those and find the section it says that, too.

[-Variant]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:13 PM, Ohan said:

Then dont do it. I dont use rot to heal because i dont want to stop every 2 seconds to apply it. Have you succesfully lived off of rot healing alone? When fighting bosses? 

 

"Don't do it" is an awkward argument for balancing sake. I was just saying it felt a bit unneeded, you've got plenty of other methods, some of which you need to put a wee bit more effort into getting, even just a small amount. Sometimes I'll be walking around and bam, some rot, free 10-20 something health just lying there.

On the blooming note, I feel like you just explained the issue yourself in my eyes. Hunger is a practically trivial matter for Wormwood so why not make his blooming a bit interactive in the sense that its a costly upside?
You now have the ability to bloom at will (Which is a rather nice perk with its upsides.) but it'd make sense if it had a cost of say, absurd hunger drain. It'd get a small bit of cost for a nice perk to have and it'd get you growing and using up a bit more of that food you've got lying around and don't know what to do with.

I think it sounds rather nice at least.

On 1/8/2021 at 4:18 PM, Cheggf said:

Snip

I mean, I never really said those methods weren't there in the first place, they certainly are and are far better healing methods, but simply existing for prolonged periods of time will easily land you rot lying around the place.