What do you think about the RWYS Wormwood changes?

[ShakerGER]

I have been asking around other people who play Wormwood and to my surprise I actually received mixed mesages about the new Woromwood changes. Some said he is still to hard some say he lost uniqueness and (what I heard the most) thorugh the compost healing etc. he has become way to easy.

I would like to kickstart a discussion and find some oppinions

[wigfrids hat]

could you have a 'dont know' option? i must confess i havent played wormwood since the rwys came out

[Mike23Ua]

I already spoke my opinion on him, but keep in mind that my opinion is my own personal Playstyle: Other people may have felt he needed the changes, Either Way.. I don’t see his changes as being any more or any less as different from Wendy, Willow, Woodie 

(Aka- Each of their Downsides became significantly less difficult to deal with- Wendy with Petal Buff, Willow with Warmth & Protection from Bernie, Woodie with forced control over his curse that is no longer directly tied to chopping too much Wood.)

So it makes sense they’d make Wormwoods downsides less harsh- it also probably makes more players more likely to BUY him now so Honestly? I’m not even upset about the changes.

[Ohan]

I voted more interesting and unchanged. Beyond the first few hours of playing Wormwood way back in the day i have never struggled with the healing downside. Its just a matter of changing your approach/mindset. 

Wormwood is a very interesting character now with a lot of depth. He is at the center of a lot of interesting game mechanics like beefalo domestication, magic in the form of readily available batbat/darksword usage, sailing to get bottles and kelp, fishing to get bone shards, every single aspect of farming, speed for kiting and exploration, infinite mushrooms, double HoT with Wrap and jellybeans, hostile spring bee neutrality, etc etc etc. 

The only things i have left on my wishlist are more durable Bramble Husks and more plant mobs for Wormwood to interact with. (And maybe auto reset for the living bramble trap ) 

I really really wish he could interact with the mush gnome in some way to get Moon Shrooms or non volatile plantable moon shrooms spores

but thats all just optional because i really like where hes at now.

[-Variant]

I'm not sure I can really agree with the awkward changes of him being able to heal with Rot and them nerfing the downsides of his bloom...

Being able to bloom at will is SUPER nice, but it begs the question as to why nerf the downside when being given such a big upside?
Also rot is like, the easiest thing to amass for me. Not quite a fan of being able to heal so cheaply from it.
Really, all I'd want is something to be done about the rot thing and to bring back all the downsides blooming originally had and he'd be golden for me. (Bees being hostile, higher hunger drain, ect.)

Other than that I think he's perfect.

[Zeklo]

I definitely think he's more interesting. Naturally he is easier as well, considering the numbers were changed in his favor.

Ultimately I wish he had more farming-related perks, but he's in a good spot right now so it's not a huge deal.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, -Variant said:

I'm not sure I can really agree with the awkward changes of him being able to heal with Rot and them nerfing the downsides of his bloom...

Being able to bloom at will is SUPER nice, but it begs the question as to why nerf the downside when being given such a big upside?
Also rot is like, the easiest thing to amass for me. Not quite a fan of being able to heal so cheaply from it.
Really, all I'd want is something to be done about the rot thing and to bring back all the downsides blooming originally had and he'd be golden for me. (Bees being hostile, higher hunger drain, ect.)

Other than that I think he's perfect.

totally agree on the hunger nerf for the bloom, you can get the speed boost for the entire year but the rot... is so tedious that who will ever mess with it?

[Ohan]

25 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Not quite a fan of being able to heal so cheaply from it.

Then dont do it. I dont use rot to heal because i dont want to stop every 2 seconds to apply it. Have you succesfully lived off of rot healing alone? When fighting bosses? 

32 minutes ago, -Variant said:

to bring back all the downsides blooming originally had and he'd be golden for me. (Bees being hostile, higher hunger drain, ect.)

I dont care either way if the hunger drain were to be increased or not because hunger is a trivial matter especially as wormwood. And there are no etceteras. Thats all the “downsides”  hostile bees and increased hunger. And the hostile bees were only a “downside” because blooming was restricted to spring alone. Why would bees attack a flower? It never made sense. Besides being a beacon for red bees in spring is still very much a downside when ur playing with other ppl, have chester around or an unmounted domesticated beef and other allies

Blooming is finally a unique core perk of his character instead of neither being wholly a perk nor a downside as it was before. 

[Yuma Arcl]

Well, if they add catapults to the battle craft tab, i think Winona will kinda become less useful / interesting (you wouldn't spend double resources for both catapults if winona's are a bit better, neither you would pick winona jsut for the catapults if you can pick another character and still build them). And this cenario is arguably not as bad.

I haven't played as wormwood in RWYS yet (my friend has), but so far i'm doing pretty much what he(?) did. I have so much food that i've been able to gather like 200 composts within an year (all from spoiled food I didn't eat). The only thing i miss is his ability to make living log (because the Friendly Fruit Fly can tend the crops for me)

If you like playing as WW, go ahead. You'll have a very easy time. If you do not like WW you kinda already start a world with one because of RWYS.

What I can say about WW and RWYS together is: You'll be able to fill the huger of all  your teammates every day and still have food spoiling.  Unless they are Wolfgangs. Then you'll need 2 WW.

TL;DR WW is having the best time of his life, but it's not unique anymore (in a way)

[Cheggf]

41 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Also rot is like, the easiest thing to amass for me. Not quite a fan of being able to heal so cheaply from it.

I want to know how people who keep saying stuff like this play. What are you doing where you apparently have hundreds of rot and all the time in the world to just be practically stationary restoring 1 health per second but you don't have any manure/nitre, spider glands, honey/reeds, tents, lean-tos, fur rolls, jellybeans, or bat bats?

[wigfrids hat]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I want to know how people who keep saying stuff like this play. What are you doing where you apparently have hundreds of rot and all the time in the world to just be practically stationary restoring 1 health per second but you don't have any manure/nitre, spider glands, honey/reeds, tents, lean-tos, fur rolls, jellybeans, or bat bats?

if you leave seeds on the ground you get rot. old worlds have more seeds than a player can ever pick up. same with petals, food there is no room for and random turf wars the player didnt see until the spoils are long since spoiled

 

rot is literally no-cost if you stay alive long enough so why not? it is a valid way to play even if it isnt the most economical with time

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, gaymime said:

if you leave seeds on the ground you get rot. old worlds have more seeds than a player can ever pick up. same with petals, food there is no room for and random turf wars the player didnt see until the spoils are long since spoiled

So they're upset that when they keep latejoining day 400 worlds they can heal with rot before they find anything better?

[wigfrids hat]

Just now, Cheggf said:

So they're upset that when they keep latejoining day 400 worlds they can heal with rot before they find anything better?

-shrugs- that i don't know. only they can tell you though i can certainly say it is an easy way to do it if you dont have anything else(at least in all the pubs i have been in)

[Ohan]

8 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I want to know how people who keep saying stuff like this play.

Im inclined to think they might be playing on the forums/wiki instead of in the constant  

[Mike23Ua]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I want to know how people who keep saying stuff like this play. What are you doing where you apparently have hundreds of rot and all the time in the world to just be practically stationary restoring 1 health per second but you don't have any manure/nitre, spider glands, honey/reeds, tents, lean-tos, fur rolls, jellybeans, or bat bats?

Okay first of all: play completely alone with no other players in the server, no players = world clean up mobs like Moleworm or Pigmen do not actually spawn and clean up loose rot (not that they ever did in the first place I am just using this as an example.) because they’re not in rendering distance of the player.

Then- factor in that your already playing AS WORMWOOD, if the loose rot found all over the map isn’t enough: you can literally just plant wild crops pretty much anywhere and let them rot and come back to that rot later: A rotten crop will also yield food.. so in ADDITION to the (for example Watermelon you just plucked) you also got the crop rotting itself that provides rot.

Last but most certainly not least: The various TYPES of Rot that heal him: Basic Rot heals for 4 hp- But Rotten Eggs in particular heals for 6 hp per egg.

The TL:DR- it is easier than EVER to play as Wormwood now. 

But rather or not that is a good or bad thing is entirely subjective to player opinion.

on one hand: more players that struggled playing as him may be more inclined to play him more often and thus people who were on the fence on buying WW may find him less punishing now.

But on the OTHER HAND- if you bought Wormwood BECAUSE he was meant to be a challenging hard to survive with character then it’s hard to deny that these recent RWYS buffs made him significantly less challenging.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

i will just say 150 healing over 150 seconds with the need of right click on rot every 4 seconds, patience made of iron

is "easier" to heal wormwood but nothing that has a real impact because honestly, who will heal more than 8 health points with such tedious resource when there is a looooot of easy and faster ways of healing. Even manure is way better than rot and nobody said that "is easy to heal as wormwood because werepigs", suddenly rot become a good healing source when it takes forever. Comparing rot makes tends look fun and takes way less time to heal

what is weird is how easy klei made to bloom but i will not complain since he is the most beautiful being of the entire game when he blooms

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

recent RWYS buffs made him significantly less challenging

i guess you are saying this because of the bloom buff and the compost wrap buff, the rot buff has no real gameplay impact

[Milordo]

Wormwood was and still is one, if not, the most intrigue "changing your playstyle" character. I will ripeat it, i never had so fun, for how much years i played this game, and still found enjoy because of one negative perk, thinking all new strategies and behaviours (which tells us how much is strong food in dst). 

The update in general did a great justice for Wormwood status, as he already had a rough moment before and during the beta of Rwys. All this new perks and blooming revisited, give so much dynamic to the character. It's still perfect balanced? No. He still more love? Yes, as you feel it, the part of farmer was weaked. 

I will wait patienly when Klei will bring us more needed changes for him, because i mighty say.....after 6 years.... i'm maybbeeee changing my new main..... add even all the new spectacular skins!!! 

 

Now.....

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

 being able to heal with Rot 

 

Since i see a lot of discussion and maybe confusion around this which baffle me, since not many people don't see it because it's a common thing in ALL videogames AND we're not talking about a subjective opinion, because i'm sorry, there is 0 subjective view about it....

I want a clear but mostly, HONEST answer from all who states that rot or rotten eggs are so strong to be nerfed... I repeat i want a honest answer.

Did you honestly play Wormwood ever? And after the RWYS update?

 

[BeeClops]

2 hours ago, Ohan said:

I voted more interesting and unchanged. Beyond the first few hours of playing Wormwood way back in the day i have never struggled with the healing downside. Its just a matter of changing your approach/mindset. 

that's because you have above average experience, for the average dst player Wormwood is much easier now.

And it's so easy to bloom in the first autumn with a few fish and gain the speed boost, so I would say he's easier even for veterans.

[Milordo]

Just now, BeeClops said:

that's because you have above average experience, for the average dst player Wormwood is much easier now.

And it's so easy to bloom in the first autumn with a few fish and gain the speed boost, so I would say he's easier even for veterans.

I can agree with the easier part, but still a challenging character in the end for everybody just less hard than before, don't you agree?

[Cheggf]

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But on the OTHER HAND- if you bought Wormwood BECAUSE he was meant to be a challenging hard to survive with character then it’s hard to deny that these recent RWYS buffs made him significantly less challenging.

I can deny it right now. I've been playing Wormwood a lot since RWYS came out and I almost never healed with rot, even with me fighting bosses. Whether I played singleplayer or joined a Klei server at day 1, 20, 50, 100, even 300, rot was almost never used. Is it easy to get a lot of rot and heal with it? Sure, I guess. But manure is about as easy to get and so if you combine that with a nitre, something so easy to obtain that players just leave it on the floor because they don't care, you get an item that actually lets you go more than a second without re-applying it.

And even if I don't have any nitre I can just use spider glands, another item I use about a million times more than rot because rot is so time inefficient. And even if I don't have any spider glands I can just sleep in a tent, or make honey poultice, or do anything else. Wormwood has a lot of ways to heal and rot is probably his second worst option.

I think he's a bit easier to play now since compost wrap now heals 33% more, he's able to get a more-or-less permanent speed boost for little cost, and some other minor things, but his challenge is still present and being able to heal with rot is not one of the things I'd say he has that makes him easier to play than he used to be. I guess it kind of does, if you really have no other options you can heal with it, but I've only found myself healing with it a few times.

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Then- factor in that your already playing AS WORMWOOD, if the loose rot found all over the map isn’t enough: you can literally just plant wild crops pretty much anywhere and let them rot and come back to that rot later: A rotten crop will also yield food.. so in ADDITION to the (for example Watermelon you just plucked) you also got the crop rotting itself that provides rot.

Or instead of using time picking up seeds and using time planting seeds and then waiting 10~15 days to be able to heal for 2 health why not use time hunting spiders? Or use time picking reeds? Or use time getting nitre and manure? All of those will get you a lot more healing a lot faster with a lot less commitment to being stationary.

[Mike23Ua]

You probably don’t play this game on the same settings as I do- so your opinion on what is and isnt useful is not the same as mine- Case in point: If I’m playing with random season start times and season lengths that “Nitre” you claim people just leave laying around is a valuable resource that I need to be fully prepared to have available for the times Summer season starts & ends & starts again.

I would rather use my resources Elsewhere on other items then to use them on healing for Wormwood- ESPECIALLY since Rot is plentiful and everywhere- Where as Nitre, is a rarer resource you’ll want to have on hand for those random summer bursts.

If you play on strictly default settings I guess you can’t see how powerful & viable rot healing can be for Wormwood- instead of wasting your resources you may need for Endo fires or other craftables: You can forgo any extra ingredients and heal with straight up rotten stuff.

Now is it the most EFFECTIVE way of healing? I never said it was.... I said and to put it more clearly: It was the most Simple and easiest to access.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

23 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wormwood has a lot of ways to heal and rot is probably his second worst option.

just curiosity. What do you consider worst healing source than rot? life giving amulet?

[wigfrids hat]

 

6 minutes ago, Milordo said:

I can agree with the easier part, but still a challenging character in the end for everybody just less hard than before, don't you agree?

maybe not everyone. i havent played new wormy but he was super easy to play before just because i already did most of the things that someone could to do to play him well(sleeping, eating non-optimal foods if they are readily avalible, farming and not picking fights)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You probably don’t play this game on the same settings as I do- so your opinion on what is and isnt useful is not the same as mine-

this isnt relevant. Spiders are always there aswell as pigs and flowers and other poop sources to give to a pig

just to compare, lightbulbs are always there and i dont think you go to the caves for heal 1hp per half second with a non warly/wormwood/wortox character

4 minutes ago, gaymime said:

he was super easy

the difficult as him comes when you try a complicate boss fight and you realice how much time takes to heal because of the animations and how much resources since healing with food is by far the best way

isnt like he was really hard

[wigfrids hat]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

isnt like he was really hard

if you are a fighter i am sure he probably is(was?). again though i play my games with minimal murdering so i am ignorant to a lot of things that revolve around direct combat(i mean, i spent a whle day figuring out how to make guard pigs kill each other while being a ghost. fighting just is not for me, hahaha)