ZombieDupe Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 *Swap the Cool Steam Vents for sandstone/terra start for a new Cool Water Geyser with 0C or 10C output (or one of the slush geysers found in swampy start) and a Water Geyser with a lowered temperature output, something like 40C or 50C. Or even just two of the former. *Change the surrounding biomes to the Forest and Sulfur biomes, leave Caustic biome as the last you discover with Dreckos, no swamp biome, please! Unless you also have that much further out. *Add Cool Slush Geyser and Cool Salty Slush Geyser as geysers on the second planetoid found in the sandstone/terra start cluster! *Add Bog Buckets and Plug Slugs to the second planetoid for sandstone/terra start cluster! I thought you learnt from your mistakes, but apparently that is not the case with this one. Klei you must know how difficult it is to cool things down as opposed to heat things up, right? Then why did you put two cool steam vent set pieces outputting 110C in place of geysers that help with temperature management? Right now the Swamp start is easier, despite it clearly being intended to be slightly more difficult! Heating up the 10C water you get from Cool Slush Geyser and Cool Salty Slush Geyser takes a few kg of refined metal with a liquid tepidiser, meanwhile cooling 110C steam takes a whole bunch of automation rigamagigging as well as Steel and Plastic! You are doing the backwards thing again like in the base game where Rime was a much easier asteroid than the starting one and almost every single other asteroid than that created heat problems unless you jumped to ranching or higher temperature resistant plants quickly. To top it all off, the starting asteroid also has slimelung. The swampy start doesn't have a single germ on it and you don't encounter slime lung until the third asteroid, which requires rocketry. It is meant to be the easiest one, it will be the first experience people will have with your game and if you require temperature management especially with cooling/insulation type and not the heating type as well as a deadly-looking germ nearby, you will be back to square one with new players quitting the game, being scared off by temperature they cannot manage, thinking the rest of the asteroids are harder, when Swampy start is legitemately easier. Nobody except people who look things up or had serious help even touched Rime before, so the fact you have done nothing to make this asteroid easier is baffling. Also this cluster is missing Bog Buckets and Plugs Slugs entirely, despite the starting biome for the second planetoid being the swampy biome! To fix this, I really think the surrounding temperatures or even biomes should be different on Terra asteroid. The Forest could be one of the surrounding biomes, while the sulfur biome could be the other, and the caustic biome would be something you would find further out. The geysers you find here could be a new Cool Water Geyser outputting water at 0C or 10C while the other could be the regular hot Water Geyser but I really recommend tuning down the temperature output to 40C or 50C as opposed to 95C for that one. Contrary to my expectation, you didn't even put the Cool Slush Geyser and Salty Slush geyser on the second asteroid for this asteroid cluster, which is literally easy coling, polluted water, salt water and even sand, because crushing salt gives sand, so you don't need to tame a volcano for renewing it! Please leave cooling as a difficulty where it's appropriate, don't make every difficulty heat related, that is just boring, and especially not good as a difficulty for the first asteroid cluster you can select! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 The sandstone start was like this forever. It was challenging but managable. Usually you had enough water spawn to survive until you needed to tap a geyser. You had gold amalgam right off the bat allowing you to pump the hot water and ice biomes as an easy heat sink. Compared to the swamp start you have more coal (and hatches for a renewable source) for early power and allows you to progress faster into more advanced systems. The swamp start has different challenges. It`s harder to setup your base layout when everything keeps collapsing and water gets everywhere, your only power sources are hamster wheels and plug slugs. You don`t get any germs there (for now) but lets be honest slimelung in the swamp would be impossible to contain with polluted oxygen spawning literally everywhere. I still think they should add another intermediate disease to that zone though. I guess it still needs some work but i don`t think they should change the original start too much. Most of us got used to how it plays. The challenges there are similar to the stuff you will need to deal with eventually later in the game anyway. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
misotoma Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 My only quarrel with the terra map is that now there is enough calories for only ten cycles. It surely is not intended since they reduced the size of the starting biome but I’m sure they forgot to increase the calories provided? In classic I would find around 65,000 kcal.. right now I only found half or less. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 My Terra feedback Temperature: For beginners and new players I would recommend Klei to spawn 50 cells of ice very close to the start colony. As thermo-expert Im currently performing an race to build the first aquatuner, as I have 2x110 celsius fluid geyers(Steam), magma volcanos and magma in Terra. I would currently consider the default Terra as too hardcore for beginners and newbies to the game. Food: Ive got something like 60 wild growing plants which I regular harvest for food in Tera. Please add something like 50x additional ( to be discovered ) muck root doses or so for beginners. Please help Terra beginners a bit more: Having Terra & the Swamp ( which has lots of ice and is cold ) closeby via teleporter, makes it for me an inspiration for my future and imagined ice transport/ice transfer from Swamp to Terra - Which I find great. However, for beginners some additional Terra support survival things would be good IMHO. For Terra some implemented Klei help solutions could provide a perhaps not so frustrating player start for some people....with small doses of advanced metals as beginner start help +additional ( to be discovered ) food rations + plus more critters for slaying or taming +one cold water/pwater geysir +more close-to-colony-ice chunks as starter help in the default Terra spawn. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve8 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 It's almost exactly like that in the base game too. The cool steam vents that can cook biomes if you don't seal them relatively soon? Always there. No cool slush geysers? That's the case on many of the seeds. The only surprise is that there are no ice biomes. One or two of those wouldn't hurt for some temporary cooling Water isn't an immediate issue. There is much more clean water and you can sieve the polluted water. By the time you need more water you can go to other planets too Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 6 hours ago, Sasza22 said: You don`t get any germs there (for now) but lets be honest slimelung in the swamp would be impossible to contain with polluted oxygen spawning literally everywhere. I had fun in the swamp start when I accidentally emptied a bottle of polluted water from a wash basin and ended up with food poisoning everywhere. Took ages to clean up the mess. I can't imagine trying to clean up slime lung in that biome. LOL. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieDupe Posted December 16, 2020 Author Share Posted December 16, 2020 8 hours ago, misotoma said: My only quarrel with the terra map is that now there is enough calories for only ten cycles. It surely is not intended since they reduced the size of the starting biome but I’m sure they forgot to increase the calories provided? In classic I would find around 65,000 kcal.. right now I only found half or less. Yes, oh my god, I have duplicants starving very early on without even trying to do a tough difficulty or getting the hardest achievements out the way, you now have to rush a ton of farms because of that since ranches won't be up and running to produce meat or eggs sustainably until a few dozen cycles. The start is more difficult and awful than ever. Sandstone surrounded by cool steam vents and slime and caustic biomes should not be its layout! This is definitely a setup of a much harder asteroid, it is absurd Klei thinks this is a fine start. We really need different and easier geysers here with much more temperature and gas manageable biomes and no germs until much later on. These are cool geysers and biomes in concept, but as the start-surrounding biomes for the supposedly easiest asteroid are an awful idea. There is ice at the surface of the asteroid, but it's not sustainable cooling, and this asteroid has to have sustainable cooling from geysers at the start, if this is going to be the easiest. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 With all the maps bottom core Magma and Magma Volcano`s...Terra would be ideal to power the Magma Engine Spock loves planet Vulcan ! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Ok after seeing how it actually looks at times i see the issue. The biome is just too small and the geysers can spawn at the edges without any abyssalite or anything. There also doesn`t seem to be any ice biomes. This means all the surroundings are warmer than the center and if not managed you can quickly get out of the temperature range of farming. Much faster than in the base game. I need to play it for a bit to see how it goes. Might need more muckroot spawns and abyssalite walls around the steam vents. I wonder how the teleporter plays into it. Might be possible to sustain the colony when farming on the other rock. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
misotoma Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said: it is absurd Klei thinks this is a fine start. They obviously messed it up.. they just released it and are now waiting for us to say something about it. Which is annoying. They say this map is the default beginner map.. I just wasted time playing this asteroid I’m going back to swamp. Swamp should be the starting default map it’s so easy to play there. They honestly forgot to balance out the food while cutting the size of the starting biome down. Also.. cool steam geysers? Where are the water geysers? They give us 5 oil reservoirs but we barely have 2.5kg/s of renewable water.. am I missing something? Also where are the magma volcanoes they mentioned would be added? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occam Blazer Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 11 hours ago, misotoma said: My only quarrel with the terra map is that now there is enough calories for only ten cycles. It surely is not intended since they reduced the size of the starting biome but I’m sure they forgot to increase the calories provided? In classic I would find around 65,000 kcal.. right now I only found half or less. In my recent couple playthroughs I had enough swamp chard to run 4-6 dupes for tens of cycles. My current strategy is to core out the starting biome for food and head over to the second asteroid before starting a ranch or farm. I pipe cold oxygen over there and food back. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
misotoma Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, occamrazor said: head over to the second asteroid Yeah for some reason the strategy nowadays is rushing to second planet to survive in ravaging hunger settings -.- nice play style in any case I survived in ravaging hunger in swamp start barely. But terra start I had trouble on hunger settings. That’s crazy lol. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, misotoma said: Also.. cool steam geysers? Where are the water geysers? Cool steam were the only ones guaranteed for a long time. All others were pure rng. The smaller map doesn`t allow for them to fit too much rng geysers so they didn`t put them in for now. The geysers themselves aren`t the problem they have good output and aren`t too hard to manage. The issue is them spawning too close to the starting biome which creates a temperature issue. The lack of ice biome for easy cooling just adds to that. 2 hours ago, misotoma said: they just released it and are now waiting for us to say something about it. Which is annoying. That`s kinda how early access works. They put out unfinished stuff and expect us to find the issues. Don`t get me wrong this is all good feedback and the game needs it just no reason to get emotional over it. The current sandstone start looks similar to the Oassise setting i think which wasn`t that easy. It might be a good idea to add frozen core as standard or small glaciers to make the temperature less of an issue. Or maybe a different biome composition that isn`t that hot. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakura_sk Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, misotoma said: Also where are the magma volcanoes they mentioned would be added? Hidden ... in plain sight Spoiler Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Sasza22 said: Ok after seeing how it actually looks at times i see the issue. The biome is just too small and the geysers can spawn at the edges without any abyssalite or anything. There also doesn`t seem to be any ice biomes. This means all the surroundings are warmer than the center and if not managed you can quickly get out of the temperature range of farming. Much faster than in the base game. I need to play it for a bit to see how it goes. Might need more muckroot spawns and abyssalite walls around the steam vents. I wonder how the teleporter plays into it. Might be possible to sustain the colony when farming on the other rock. I played this night on Terra for 6 hours, its hell. 2x110 celsius geysirs, 3 magma volcanos + magma at the bottom. I would rather shoot myself then starting with Terra again. Beginners just have to make a single mistake ( like uncovering one of the volcanos or vent all their oxygen through the top and such ) and they can rage quit haha. I teleported a million tons of ice from the other swamp over to Terra and started building an Terra Aircon with aquatuners, its tedious...Nearly nothing to cool stuff down, no equalizer. I`m starting a fresh game with the Swamp...Beginners will die a million times on the new Terra. A nice hardcore challenge for you @Lilalaunekuh Terra is 23 million celsius, nice and cool...Lava everywhere ! Terra has been rebuilt by Baal !!! Its like giving new players level 10 stuff and putting them in front of Baal ! "Boff" ...Dead Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
misotoma Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, babba said: 3 magma volcanos I didn’t get any volcanoes.. is my seed messed up lol. I want all that delicious volcanoes and magma. The only reason I get out of bed lol. Vacuum the whole map and create free power infinitely ooh I cannot wait. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, misotoma said: I didn’t get any volcanoes.. is my seed messed up lol. I want all that delicious volcanoes and magma. The only reason I get out of bed lol. Vacuum the whole map and create free power infinitely ooh I cannot wait. Baal`s Asteroid @misotoma @Lilalaunekuh SNDST-C-161072939-9G 2 Magma volcano & Magma bottom within 1 screen haha @ZombieDupe @sakura_sk Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1406932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbowdesign Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 4 hours ago, babba said: I played this night on Terra for 6 hours, its hell. 2x110 celsius geysirs, 3 magma volcanos + magma at the bottom. I would rather shoot myself then starting with Terra again. Beginners just have to make a single mistake ( like uncovering one of the volcanos or vent all their oxygen through the top and such ) and they can rage quit haha. I teleported a million tons of ice from the other swamp over to Terra and started building an Terra Aircon with aquatuners, its tedious...Nearly nothing to cool stuff down, no equalizer. Really? thought i just skip it and wait till i can play with my challenge mods... but hmm its really that good? Maybe i try it! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
babba Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rainbowdesign said: Really? thought i just skip it and wait till i can play with my challenge mods... but hmm its really that good? Maybe i try it! I tried 6 hours...I just started a new Swamp, its cool and chilly, very nice. No way I will start a Terra HeatMap again in this year Send Baal my regards if you visit Terra, he`s got the barbecue ready for you Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbowdesign Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Sooooo its to hot for you? I used to play with the challenges, the most deadly experience was with sinking temperatures where my mod did sink the the temperature around 4 degree a cycle so between cycle 10 and 20 the whole base should be completely isolated because the environment has lower than -20 and degree and you better have some kind of heating concept because if you dont start to heat the water it will be VERY solid soon. That is certainly the frozen hell (enough to say i did not play that setting again but the light version which sinks maybe 1 degree a cycle and there are some easy 250 cycles until frozen oxygen falls from the environment.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangoridn Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Its like you say, smaller map hotter biomes closer together, makes harder expierience than in swamp. However you all forgot about really cold surface. There is your cold biome to balance things out. in my playthrough i make make poluted water cyrcling around my base and cold surface to cool things out. Its not begginer friendly solution tho. Food is not an issue. I think is a disgrace for me when I get so many muckroots that I can freely not build any food solution for 20 cycles. Lack of Food is a great mechanic to slow progresion in a clever way. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
misotoma Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I forgot to mention the elephant in the room regarding terra asteroid. Oxygen/water production. It is so in this default beginner friendly asteroid that I am forced to teleport to the second asteroid to acquire oxygen production stability. Something I don't have to do in swamp asteroid since.. all my oxygen/water production is available there in the starting biome. The resources given in Swamp asteroid are: Water (mud), Polluted water (Pmud).. all requiring dupe operation which also produces polluted dirt (oxygen) and dirt - but available once you dig through the starting biome (germ free may I add - and TONS of it). Something terra does not have balanced since I have some water, a lot of polluted water and a decent amount of (hard to reach) algae. That throws off oxygen/water production WAY OFF for terra asteroid compared to swamp asteroid. Also in Swamp asteroid I am not necessarily forced to travel to the second asteroid (unless you want to balance calories out). As a matter of fact, one of my plays (hunger setting) I teleported to the second asteroid at cycle 150. In any case, as of right now my oxygen and water production sources are becoming scarce in terra. My perspective on my current play through is I will have to come to terms with the fact that ALL farming will be destroyed by SPOM production of hot oxygen without cooling being readily available which means my food production is FULL hatch ranches. As of right now I also need to travel to second asteroid to bring back polluted mud and dirt to keep my base.. from Oxygen Not Included status lol Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurve Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Klei: so here's a start that plays a lot more like the vanilla game Everyone: but it plays a lot more like the vanilla game! I adore this start's teleroid. It's cozy AF. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Volcanoes now spawn on only 3 tiles of neutronium? 5 minutes ago, Lurve said: Klei: so here's a start that plays a lot more like the vanilla game Everyone: but it plays a lot more like the vanilla game! Except vanilla has cold biomes to allow you to survive until you can build a ST+AT and possibly a cool slush or PW vent. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/124974-why-is-sandstoneterra-start-still-this-hot/#findComment-1407202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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