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Did Klei make an oopsie? (Ancients design)


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So in case you don't know the story of the ancient civilization goes a little something like this:

Spoiler

Bug people live on the surface where they collect gems and use moon magic- they worship the 'Moon'.

Something makes them retreat to the caves where they build their first city made mostly from thulecite and moon rock.

Caves block out the 'Moon''s influence and the ancients can no longer use those cool powers.

The original city falls to the ruins and is eventually completely lost to time. Except Ancient Archives as they were kept neat and tidy thanks to Dust Moths.

Ancients struggle to survive untill they discover nightmare fuel.

The last and only source of lunar magic is the torch held by the bug queen. Other than that the ancients resolve to using nightmare fuel.

They create a city which became the ruins we see in-game

Overuse of the nightmare fuel caused their bodies to change. They gained longer arms, lost their heads and instead gained a large, gaping mouths.

Further ruin and destruction

Bug people go extinct (at least for now)

The important bits are that Ancient Archive predates mass use of nightmare fuel and that nightmare fuel caused the ancients to lose their heads and gain gaping mouths.

image.thumb.png.8902fb7b029805def02f5704cc512166.png

Speaking of which, I think the mage statue (or at least its head) could use an update...

Anyway...

When ancients were still occupying the ancient archives they still had their heads on.

Here's what statues in the archive look like:

image.thumb.png.ba4ba8450f0e8f4da508a4367db91a0c.png

As you can see those 2 ancients clearly resemble the ones that got transformed by the nightmare fuel.

Since errors in consistency are nothing new when it comes to Klei, I don't know if this is just a mistake on their part or some new lore about Ancients.

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Yeah, the mage looks to be wearing a mask. They all probably look similar without them.

image.png.1690a2c4b1f652611eff58cb9a5a1c84.png

This one looks to have teeth as well, so maybe the Ancients just had small mouths capable of opening disturbingly wide? That or the nightmare fuel did that to them. (Have we ever seen their small mouths like this? I'm wondering if this is a new detail thanks to this statue)

image.png.9e157bd8bccc8653b74c535e606b01de.png

image.png.f6bca466edc5ac7d11ecc9f76a050259.png

I'm thinking they used masks to show status, perhaps? Also, thanks to this post, I finally realize the nightmare fuel ancients had long gaping mouths with teeth. Yay, nightmare fuel!

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3 hours ago, minespatch said:

Why would the thulians know about human faces if they wore masks?

How did Wagstaff know about the Nightmare Throne without ever setting foot in the Constant? 
How did the author of the Codex Umbra know literally ANYTHING?

The Thulians also have a gigantic portal to at least 2 other Alternate Dimensions (Forge and Gorge), so it's safe to say they were aware of other worlds. 

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3 hours ago, minespatch said:

Why would the thulians know about human faces if they wore masks?

There is always the possibility that there were creatures that looked like humans but were entirely different, like how we consider these creatures a form of bug despite being clearly different. There is also the possibility that they based these masks on Splumonkeys, who were considered magical from their interactions with the ebb and flow of the nightmare cycle.

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I think it's possible that these varied depictions of the ancients are just them at various stages of hemimetabolous metamorphosis, since it's canon that these are "bug-like" creatures. 

Basically, I think the ancients always looked the same before, during, and after their civilization's existence; what you're seeing is just different growth stages.

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Well the ancients definitely had faces of sorts given the woven shadows. Notice how the murals depict the 'turned' ancients with dark hands and faces? Well that's exactly what woven shadows are. Hands and faces.

Spoiler

SkullHand

We do know that they wore masks—at least their leaders did. So perhaps the "mage" statue in is meant to represent the Staff Wielder in particular? He was after all the one who initially took charge of the use of nightmare fuel which worked wonders for their civilization... until it didn't. Scepter, staff same dealio. Obviously not a 1:1, but I amount that to original vs fresh content.

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12 hours ago, YouKnowWho said:

maybe they never had faces and just wore masks

I'm surprised so many people belive that.

The only ancients that definitely wore masks (masks, not head prosthesis) were the King and the Queen.

It's obvious since their heads have a peculiar shape and are, most importantly, made out of thulecite.

image.png.fefe9b407492aaaca88ec4fe2aaac28e.png

The colors of their masks and flesh are different as oppsoed to a regualr Ancient whose 'mask' and flesh have the same color.

Besides why would the ancients wear masks? Were they self-conscious about their big mouths? Were Pigman making fun of them? It's all headcanons at this point.

Another thing i'd like to point out is that the mage statue has regular bug stuff on its belly as opposed to the autrium/archive statues.

image.png.68481586fb0e1b218ab41fa4d6af6220.png

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7 minutes ago, VouMorrer said:

is it the real name of ancient [civilization]?

where did this came from?

It's not a confirmed name, just a nickname. 
It's derived from 'Thulecite', the material they invented/discovered. 

Sort of like how humans can also be called 'Terrans' or 'Earthlings' because that's the planet we're from, we've just taken an object the Ancients are associated with (Thulecite) and have decided to name them after it. 

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Just now, Wendy C. said:

It's not a confirmed name, just a nickname. 
It's derived from 'Thulecite', the material they invented/discovered. 

Sort of like how humans can also be called 'Terrans' or 'Earthlings' because that's the planet we're from, we've just taken an object the Ancients are associated with (Thulecite) and have decided to name them after it. 

thanks for the answer

i liked that name

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22 hours ago, Szczuku said:

So in case you don't know the story of the ancient civilization goes a little something like this:

  Hide contents

Bug people live on the surface where they collect gems and use moon magic- they worship the 'Moon'.

Something makes them retreat to the caves where they build their first city made mostly from thulecite and moon rock.

Caves block out the 'Moon''s influence and the ancients can no longer use those cool powers.

The original city falls to the ruins and is eventually completely lost to time. Except Ancient Archives as they were kept neat and tidy thanks to Dust Moths.

Ancients struggle to survive untill they discover nightmare fuel.

The last and only source of lunar magic is the torch held by the bug queen. Other than that the ancients resolve to using nightmare fuel.

They create a city which became the ruins we see in-game

Overuse of the nightmare fuel caused their bodies to change. They gained longer arms, lost their heads and instead gained a large, gaping mouths.

Further ruin and destruction

Bug people go extinct (at least for now)

The important bits are that Ancient Archive predates mass use of nightmare fuel and that nightmare fuel caused the ancients to lose their heads and gain gaping mouths.

image.thumb.png.8902fb7b029805def02f5704cc512166.png

Speaking of which, I think the mage statue (or at least its head) could use an update...

Anyway...

When ancients were still occupying the ancient archives they still had their heads on.

Here's what statues in the archive look like:

image.thumb.png.ba4ba8450f0e8f4da508a4367db91a0c.png

As you can see those 2 ancients clearly resemble the ones that got transformed by the nightmare fuel.

Since errors in consistency are nothing new when it comes to Klei, I don't know if this is just a mistake on their part or some new lore about Ancients.

I noticed this about the statues too. Also, thank you for unintentionally reminding me to continue my ancient civilization analysis.

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