[Discussion] Wickerbottom Rework Ideas Thread

[ShadowDuelist]

1 hour ago, Seero said:

Outright speednerfs with no compensation (wilbur being able to become more speedy if he walks for a bit since he can run)

and wolfgang being able to maintain his speed or increasing it through eating

would just be boring, wicker canonically is actually pretty strong

Speed is the most important short-term concept in the game. Since wicker is a long-term oriented character, (Longterm, not OP) it would make sense to nerf her short-term stats, right? WRONG. Nerfing her speed outright would be a sin. Speed is especially useful in the game and just outright nerfing it for some characters would just make said character less enjoyable.

 

Oh I know he was probably joking, and I'm not fond of a speed nerf specifically, but I think the "way" she should be nerfed is by giving her cons related to her physical capabilities. I used it as an example only.

[Queron81]

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I really hope they don't nerf the current books or her reading capabilities.

Requiring sanity to be able to cast magic in general, although it sounds great in pen an paper, in reality I think it would just mean you had to take an extra step to spam cast magic: read, eat cooked cactii, read, etc... It's not fun nor meaningful.

So Fighting isn't fun too? Fight, take damage, eat pierogies, fight etc.
Wormwood for example can't make living logs when he hasn't enough health for it (and making many living logs isn't really that important compared to the possibilites of using the books, maybe with even some more books in the future).

Reading books is costing sanity, so not enough sanity -> no book reading. So if you want to use the books, you have to prepare with sanity food like you prepare with health food before a fight. This will make farming sanity food (mushroom planters) and crops for sanity crock pot recipes a thing again.

My ideas for new books:

- Wormhole Book: 2 x Papyrus,  30 x Hound Tooth, 4 x Tentacle Spot. Has 2 uses, each reading is spawning a wormhole, that ar connected with each other.

- Map area revealing Book: 2 x Papyrus, 1 x Compass, 8 x Feather Pencil. Has 5 uses, reveals a big area of the map (a certain radius).

- Object marking Book: 2 x Papyrus, 1 x Compass, 1 x any item. Has 1 use, marking all objects (items, structures, mobs) on the map, that are the selected item or are containing or (possibly) dropping this item.

- Extinguishing Book: 2 x Papyrus, 15 x Ice, 2 x Blue Gem. Has 3 uses, extinguishing all fires in a certain area (Applied Horticulture range).

- Moderate climate Book: 2 x Papyrus, 2 x Yellow Gem, 4 x Living Logs. Has 3 uses, sets worlds ambient temperature to 40° for 4 Minutes (useful in winter and summer, crops and plants can grow during this time).

- Strength Book: 2 x Papyrus, 2 x Thulecite, 4 x Living Logs. Has 3 uses, sets Wickerbottoms damage modifier to 1.5 for some minutes and she needs less actions for chopping and mining.

 

 

[Frashaw27]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

o people crying Nerf Wicker.. should I be saying Nerf Willow since she’s immune to fire damage and has Bernie fighting all the Shadow creatures for her?

Can willow single offhandedly farm dragonfly scales or bee queen with a few tentacles spots and books by day 6? Can Bernie single highhandedly produce a metric ton of morsels and plants? Can Willow make any team go through the game rather casually if they didn't have her? All of these are no. Your example is a false equivalency. You are comparing some perks that immunity a situational damage source and the ability to make fields of bushels of berries or stone fruit grow instantaneously with no consequence. Even without that absurd example, almost all of her books gives her the ability to just activate easy mode or get some of the most desired resources extremely easily. Wicker is overpowered. Even people who main her like Ogrecakes agree that she is overpowered. Just because you haven't seen this power doesn't mean it is. I think it really odd how you seems to say that a character like Wurt who is average at best, and under powered at worst, as powerful while deeming a blatantly overpowered character, to people who have barely played her nonetheless, as average.

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Birds of the world is a good book to use but only after you’ve set up hundreds of bird traps all around you.

Sure it’s not the most effective thing ever but it’s fun, it’s creative and very few people think to even do it.

This just shows how blatantly ignorant to Wicker's power as you are. You don't have to have bird traps because Wicker also comes with a handy dandy panflute replacement, which can put all the birds asleep and just smack them with a hambat. Is this obscure, no as there is plenty of other people talking about the same fact here, showing that this isn't some obscure thing that only a fair few know. Do I expect you to know this, no not really, but it shows how ignorant you are on actual balancing as you don't know what needs to be balanced.  It's hard for me to take you seriously when you  don't know basic stuff like this for the topic. You can add your two cents all you want, but that doesn't meant that anyone will accept it.

[Mike23Ua]

29 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

Can willow single offhandedly farm dragonfly scales or bee queen with a few tentacles spots and books by day 6? Can Bernie single highhandedly produce a metric ton of morsels and plants? Can Willow make any team go through the game rather casually if they didn't have her? All of these are no. Your example is a false equivalency. You are comparing some perks that immunity a situational damage source and the ability to make fields of bushels of berries or stone fruit grow instantaneously with no consequence. Even without that absurd example, almost all of her books gives her the ability to just activate easy mode or get some of the most desired resources extremely easily. Wicker is overpowered. Even people who main her like Ogrecakes agree that she is overpowered. Just because you haven't seen this power doesn't mean it is. I think it really odd how you seems to say that a character like Wurt who is average at best, and under powered at worst, as powerful while deeming a blatantly overpowered character, to people who have barely played her nonetheless, as average.

This just shows how blatantly ignorant to Wicker's power as you are. You don't have to have bird traps because Wicker also comes with a handy dandy panflute replacement, which can put all the birds asleep and just smack them with a hambat. Is this obscure, no as there is plenty of other people talking about the same fact here, showing that this isn't some obscure thing that only a fair few know. Do I expect you to know this, no not really, but it shows how ignorant you are on actual balancing as you don't know what needs to be balanced.  It's hard for me to take you seriously when you  don't know basic stuff like this for the topic. You can add your two cents all you want, but that doesn't meant that anyone will accept it.

And it’s not up to you or me to decide how to balance ANYTHING- But you also don’t take a character that’s played roughly the same way since 2013 and Quote “Nerf her into the ground!” In 2020 just Because LuLz we can!

Just because I don’t know your little game inside and out doesn’t mean that my opinions on playing as Wicker are Invalid, you guys seem to want in general some “harder End game balancing..” when in fact for people who are relatively new to the franchise THOSE people are still finding plenty to be challenged by... without needing to add any additional extreme penalties on top of simply just learning the game.

Why do you Think Wendy’s lowered damage downside is now completely nullified by Abigails bestowment petals? Like it or not.. Klei wants to make the characters Easier to play as and more accessible to people who Aren’t experts looking to achieve X end game purpose for Y End Game results.

But do keep in mind that just because characters are becoming easier to play as doesn’t mean that the world and the mobs that inhabit it will also be made significantly easier as well.

name ONE Rework out of all the characters who have been Reworked so far who got Nerfed instead of being made even easier to play & enjoy.. Anyone of them... I’ll wait.

Look I get it, I am one of the most vocal people here on these forums for harder difficulty options, but at same exact time.. I don’t need my friends who actually manage to STARVE with a Stack of 30 Uncooked Birchnuts in their Inventory because they don’t know how to cook them becoming anymore frustrated with the game.

The game is called Don’t Starve TOGETHER... and maybe there should be better ways for people of varying different skill levels to play in the same world together and still enjoy their gameplay, but I just have to ask how is making Wicker unable to read her books when at low sanity going to help those players who UNLIKE YOU will still struggle to manage her Sanity and may *Gasp* Actually NEED those powerful books to help them better stay alive?

I can screenshot an image of the 40 dead skeletons of various people who join my world and manage to die roughly right around the florid pastern for you if you’d like- but sadly I don’t even think That’ll make someone like you feel satisfied in why Wicker shouldn’t be Nerfed.

 

[LordNiggle]

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And it’s not up to you or me to decide how to balance ANYTHING- But you also don’t take a character that’s played roughly the same way since 2013 and Quote “Nerf her into the ground!” In 2020 just Because LuLz we can!

Just because I don’t know your little game inside and out doesn’t mean that my opinions on playing as Wicker are Invalid, you guys seem to want in general some “harder End game balancing..” when in fact for people who are relatively new to the franchise THOSE people are still finding plenty to be challenged by... without needing to add any additional extreme penalties on top of simply just learning the game.

Why do you Think Wendy’s lowered damage downside is now completely nullified by Abigails bestowment petals? Like it or not.. Klei wants to make the characters Easier to play as and more accessible to people who Aren’t experts looking to achieve X end game purpose for Y End Game results.

But do keep in mind that just because characters are becoming easier to play as doesn’t mean that the world and the mobs that inhabit it will also be made significantly easier as well.

name ONE Rework out of all the characters who have been Reworked so far who got Nerfed instead of being made even easier to play & enjoy.. Anyone of them... I’ll wait.

Look I get it, I am one of the most vocal people here on these forums for harder difficulty options, but at same exact time.. I don’t need my friends who actually manage to STARVE with a Stack of 30 Uncooked Birchnuts in their Inventory because they don’t know how to cook them becoming anymore frustrated with the game.

The game is called Don’t Starve TOGETHER... and maybe there should be better ways for people of varying different skill levels to play in the same world together and still enjoy their gameplay, but I just have to ask how is making Wicker unable to read her books when at low sanity going to help those players who UNLIKE YOU will still struggle to manage her Sanity and may *Gasp* Actually NEED those powerful books to help them better stay alive?

I can screenshot an image of the 40 dead skeletons of various people who join my world and manage to die roughly right around the florid pastern for you if you’d like- but sadly I don’t even think That’ll make someone like you feel satisfied in why Wicker shouldn’t be Nerfed.

 

"if you nerf her... all of my 40 friends who run into the dark at night will die!!! I hope you feel happy knowing that you just caused the death of my friend who didnt know he could cook birchnuts but somehow knew that he could read X book to achieve X result that would somehow save his life. Nerfing this character is going to DESTROY the gap between experienced and unexperienced players and i will no longer be able to keep my 5 base-hermits alive."

[blacknight7890]

45 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

name ONE Rework out of all the characters who have been Reworked so far who got Nerfed instead of being made even easier to play & enjoy.. Anyone of them... I’ll wait.

Well, considering almost all of the reworks have been notably underpowered and or underplayed characters, yes, you are right in this regard. The characters that were reworked were either weak, outdated, or ported over from singleplayer, thus there was next to no reason to nerf them.

[glooomy]

13 hours ago, PanAzej said:

Make her not be able to read books while at 0 sanity,

I really hope they don’t do this. Sanity isn’t a requirement for books or staves to be used, just a penalty for using them. Perhaps sanity could be used as an ingredient toward crafting the book just like it is for when you’re crafting potions in the Mad Scientist Lab. Or like how health is an ingredient to craft a new Codex Umbra. 

[Frashaw27]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But you also don’t take a character that’s played roughly the same way since 2013 and Quote “Nerf her into the ground!” In 2020 just Because LuLz we can!

I mean when Woodie was introduced to DST, they had remade him into essentially being a a hollow version of himself. His wareform was bad to use and you had to constantly been eating wood just to not turn into it. This was how Woodie was nerfed into the ground, but the again it wasn't for a good reason but for Wick there is. Wick is again blatently overpowered, and thus has reason to be nerfed. Compared to all other characters, she is the only who I can say with complete confidence that she could be sufficient to help a max 64 player server given enough bushes. There is no other character who I can deem that title to. Even beyond her food capabilities, her ability to much more easily farm a end game item is absurd, and she can make a player a god is she is nice enough that day. She really crosses the line at killing rave bosses with no cost to her besides some health and a few dead tentacles. She needs to be nerfed because she messes with the balance of the game. I know the balance when considering characters is not a good one to talk about, but this one is such an outlier that it is one of two that can be considered game breaking. Just because you don't want change, doesn't mean that the change can't be good, and she needs a change that makes her power inline with the rest of the cast, instead of this freak anomaly that makes the game easy mode.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just because I don’t know your little game inside and out doesn’t mean that my opinions on playing as Wicker are Invalid, you guys seem to want in general some “harder End game balancing..” when in fact for people who are relatively new to the franchise THOSE people are still finding plenty to be challenged by... without needing to add any additional extreme penalties on top of simply just learning the game.

Your opinions as Wicker aren't invalid, it's just that they go against almost everyone else who has a better understanding of how the game works then you. Now with less snark, yes players like you who are new to the game are important to discuss when considering balancing, even though you seem to be in the camp of making the game Dark Souls New Game+++++++ difficult because you seem to want to challenge yourself without actually interacting with the challenging content, but the problem is that with Wicker is that her opness transcends any skill as she just that good. In short, she is so powerful that it can be seen no matter what skill level you are at. Veterans may be able to manifest that strength into a better form, but it still the same power for everyone to use real easily.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

But do keep in mind that just because characters are becoming easier to play as doesn’t mean that the world and the mobs that inhabit it will also be made significantly easier as well.

No, but she is still too powerful right now. Just because the world around her is getting more difficult doesn't mean that her powers aren't still absurdly powerful. It like, even though you now have trees that take a while to be chopped down, doesn't mean that a axe is any less effective. This point actually gives my stance more evidence as Wick needs to be at the same general power level as the others to feel the danger the other characters do.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

name ONE Rework out of all the characters who have been Reworked so far who got Nerfed instead of being made even easier to play & enjoy.. Anyone of them... I’ll wait.

Winona and Warly. While Winona is fairly skin deep, being only difficult since her being productive in base also means having to drain food a lot faster, which made her slightly harder to play. But Warly, he was both nerfed and buffed at the same time. Even tough his cooking adventures have been expanded, beyond that he got the spiky end of the baseball bat. His removal of the ability to eat raw foods, and removal of his consumption buff makes it much harder to survive as him. In the early game, you don't have much to work with since you lack any type of farm and are most likely exploring the world so you don't have that much to work with to make unique dishes. Outside of his ability to make Wolfgang a god, his actual playstyle has been made worse by his rework. It made him a better character but still nerfed to the near ground none the less.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Look I get it, I am one of the most vocal people here on these forums for harder difficulty options, but at same exact time.. I don’t need my friends who actually manage to STARVE with a Stack of 30 Uncooked Birchnuts in their Inventory because they don’t know how to cook them becoming anymore frustrated with the game.

And you think essentially putting training wheel on a game that's all about the rough challenge of learning is a good thing? Sure, her overpowered nature may help players succeed, but not for the right reasons. It gives players a false sense of skill as it gets rid of the need of actually learning to do the thing and instead just having some op thing to the thing for you. Not even Wolfgang can do this as his power alone doesn't give player the ability to survive significantly longer, but Wicker does. It's not good for the players to have that crutch since they won't be able to act without it, the same reason dis-advise player on having beefalo handle hounds attacks, it doesn't give you the skills to actually deal with the game. Ill just ask what is more difficult, going down into the caves and hammering down rabbit huts to make a village and having to constantly targeting individual rabbits with a tamed rabbit just to gain a benefit, or gathering some bushels of berries, putting excrement on them and making a book?

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The game is called Don’t Starve TOGETHER... and maybe there should be better ways for people of varying different skill levels to play in the same world together and still enjoy their gameplay, but I just have to ask how is making Wicker unable to read her books when at low sanity going to help those players who UNLIKE YOU will still struggle to manage her Sanity and may *Gasp* Actually NEED those powerful books to help them better stay alive?

Hey i'm not actually good at the game, I just read the wiki a lot and memorized most of it, but I will still take my ineptitude compared to having to rely on some god mechanic to strangle by. Having to rely on the gimmick to survive makes the player worst as when that gimmick is gone, they don't know what to do. It goes against the point of the game that you want where it's gritty and butt clenching tough, and yet you want to make sure the game has a way to negate the biggest problems people may have? Their will always be people of different skill levels, but disregarding the fact that the books dillute what that means also needs to be considered. The players needs to actually do stuff on their own, not rely on some holy book to just coast the into the finish line.

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I can screenshot an image of the 40 dead skeletons of various people who join my world and manage to die roughly right around the florid pastern for you if you’d like- but sadly I don’t even think That’ll make someone like you feel satisfied in why Wicker shouldn’t be Nerfed.

Yes, because that tell me nothing except that they died to darkness as if it were a hunger problem, they would be spread out like hay in a needle stack. It does tell me, however, that you at least providing the bare essentials in chests or something for new players points to you being the problem why there are so many skeletons. Thoes skeletons prove nothing as they all could have died to something out of Wick's holy hands.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

 

 

You MUST know about the potencial of a character to talk about balancing him.

Its like if someone coming asking for buff wolfgang because is weak in wimpy form because he doenst know how manage food 

[UnknowX]

I think her rework should make her more fun to play, giving her some new books to mess with, while also limiting her power a little.

Let's face it, she barely had any downsides, so here are some:

-She is a frail lady: she will hurt herself doing hard labor, getting 3 health damage if completely mining a boulder and 1, 2 and 3 health damage for completely cutting a tree depending if it's stage 1, 2 or 3 respectively. Also get double the damage while overheating and freezing.

-Far from her prime: has a x0,8 penalty on damage dealt while attacking. This goes with the fact that she is old and frail and has to rely on her books.

-No more insomnia (it's a nothing downside, barely anyone sleeps at all in the game, and doesn't allow her to get gifts on Christmas)

-Hates food spoilage (the same as it is now)

-Knows many things (the same as it is now)

-Self publishes books: This is her defining characteristic, but needs some balance, so she will only be able to use her books when having enough sanity to do so, most people agree that this is the most necessary change she needs for balance sake. Now, to counterbalance this a little, crafting a book (publishing it), would give her 10 sanity back. I also like the idea of her been able to craft a book shelf to put her books and it giving her and those around it some sanity in return the more books it has (credit not mine on the bookshelf idea).

Also, she would get some new books:

-Geological formations (2 papyrus + 1 gold + 1 nitre), 5 uses: spawns 2-3 boulders on the ground around the caster, but the type of boulder would depend on the biome. Rocky biomes wold spawn a mix of regular and gold vine boulders, desert biome would only spawn rock boulders, moon island could spawn moon glass boulders and been in the open sea would spawn sea stacks. Also, reading it around trees in the Forrest would petrify them. Maybe even petrify mobs like in the forge.

-Winter wonderland ( 2 papyrus + 1 blue gem + 10 ice), 5 uses: will cool you and the area around it to 0 °C instantly, the area will remain at that temperature for 10 seconds, so you cold freeze if you remain on it for too long, can freeze water around. If cast near the water it will create an ice plataform allowing you to walk over it (good for crossing gaps between biomes)

-The power of eye (2 papyrus + 1 dearclops eye + 1 thick fur), 5 uses (10 if Wickerbottom or Maxwell): this book can be read by every character, it will give you a damage boost of x1,25, that will last until you loose a total of half your health (if your health is 200, when you lose a total of 100 health the effect will disappear, healing doesn't change the total lost healt) or when you are frozen or put to sleep. Not good for tanking, but amazing if you are a master kitter.

-Wind instruments (2 papyrus + 5 down feathers + 5 malbatros feathers), 5 uses: it will make wind blow towards the caster from the edges of the screen, dragging items on the ground or in the water towards the player, has a 50% chance of uprooting grass an twigs from grass tuffs and saplings (uprooted items won't move that much). Helps harvesting and puling items on the water near shore or towards the boat.

-From the moon to the earth (2 papyrus + 1 iridescent gem + 5 moon rock), 10 uses: summons a meteor on the target (can be aimed), does 500 damage, if target survives, it gets stunned for 10 seconds, requires full 1/2 of full sanity to use.

 

What do you think?

[Mike23Ua]

What if they just removed On tentacles altogether and instead gave her a seafaring version that can only be used on Water called Release the Kraken?

What If She was able to throw her book & it become alive with teeth to attack enemies like from the movie PageMaster? 

A Wickerbottom Rework should have some fun new stuff, not quote “Nerf her into the ground.” 

And you can’t really compare her to anyone who hasn’t been Reworked yet because all of those are also subject to change.

The ones you CAN Compare her to are Willow, Warly, Woodie, Winona & Wendy. 

I for one personally like being able to team up with a Wormwood to instantly grow a ton of food from seeds using Applied Horticulture... so I hope that does not get Nerfed. 

[Spirit Glow]

15 hours ago, Seero said:

Outright speednerfs with no compensation (wilbur being able to become more speedy if he walks for a bit since he can run)

and wolfgang being able to maintain his speed or increasing it through eating

would just be boring, wicker canonically is actually pretty strong

Speed is the most important short-term concept in the game. Since wicker is a long-term oriented character, (Longterm, not OP) it would make sense to nerf her short-term stats, right? WRONG. Nerfing her speed outright would be a sin. Speed is especially useful in the game and just outright nerfing it for some characters would just make said character less enjoyable.

also im pretty sure laku was joking when he said that

 

also I made a "is it OP" flow chart

When I specified that doing that stuff isn't a great thing, doing all of that within the same amount of time might just be, a great thing

Flow chart is vague and extremely subjective. What exactly counts as a "great thing"? Like what exactly does that even mean?

 

I understand if you feel like no character can be OP and I personally like the way wicker plays, but i do think she could use more meaningful downsides ( i feel like all characters should have meaningful downsides/perks).

 

I do agree about the speed aspect tho, it adds nothing of interest gameplay-wise. At least for Wendy she loses personal damage in exchange for Abigails help, but in this case Wicker would be losing speed in exchange for.......well nothing.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

23 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What if they just removed On tentacles altogether and instead gave her a seafaring version that can only be used on Water called Release the Kraken?

What If She was able to throw her book & it become alive with teeth to attack enemies like from the movie PageMaster? 

A Wickerbottom Rework should have some fun new stuff, not quote “Nerf her into the ground.” 

And you can’t really compare her to anyone who hasn’t been Reworked yet because all of those are also subject to change.

The ones you CAN Compare her to are Willow, Warly, Woodie, Winona & Wendy. 

I for one personally like being able to team up with a Wormwood to instantly grow a ton of food from seeds using Applied Horticulture... so I hope that does not get Nerfed. 

nobody is asking for only nerfs, we are talking that she can have more fun books or changes in the old one but must come with actuall downsides not only "cant sleep"(who the hell sleeps when you can grow any sanity food) 

we compare with the old ones because are more balanced that things like wendy who right now has only 1 downside and is only noticeable against toadstool and shadow creatures, she has became a boring character because of how easy abigail makes the game (idk why she has that damage when no has a debuff and is much more difficult to kill her, you are suppose to help each other but abigail can kill by her own easy). Or woodie that his only downside is being transformed in full moon (and you can make profit of it anyways). Willow has pass from burning your base when sanity is low to a willson with a 2k hp and 50 damage bodyward

the game became boring if all characters has only op perks and no real downsides but that doesnt mean that they cant have fun stuff 

[OMGkawaiiAngel]

Cap her sanity down to 150, and increase cost of the materials needed to craft her books. That would be a way to nerf her. Maybe they can add new books as well... or maybe she could craft a small crafting station that would look like a book-case, and she'd need to be close there to craft her books!

[Mike23Ua]

Fun downside besides inability to sleep? Something no other character has?

Fine.. she’s a librarian so why wouldn’t she be annoyed by loud noises? This would mean Moose Goose Honks, Hound Waves Barking, An Meteor Shower crashing into the fields near her, Leaving Bearger or Deerclops to loudly and obnoxiously smash around through forests.

all these noisy things would drain Wickers Sanity unless she found peace and quite.

[Dr. Safety]

I think the important thing to stress here is to keep/expand her current capabilities, but all she needs is some meaningful downsides. Current books I think are fine as is, and I want her to get more books with lots of different unique effects. Sometimes public servers are so full that realistically the only way to keep them all fed is to have a Wickerbottom with Applied Horticulture. I don't think that should change, but come on... not being able to get a present during the holiday season isn't enough to warrant her extremely powerful upsides. 

Also the having books COST sanity rather than just a flat reduction of sanity would further increase the synergy between Wickerbottom and Maxwell.

[Lukmendes]

Aside from her not being able to use books at 0 sanity anymore, I think a change her books could have is to vary more the amount of sanity required to use them, most of them cost 50, only one costs a different number, 33, that way some weaker books could be used more often.

I'm not sure about increasing the costs in making the books, that would just make them more boring to make, and it's better to avoid that.

This might be too much, but since Wickerbottom is really smart, maybe she could learn how to prototype items from the Ancient tab? Though I guess that could also be done with Wilson or Maxwell.

[Seero]

On 5/4/2020 at 12:16 PM, Spirit Glow said:

"great thing"? Like what exactly does that even mean?

In the context of the flowchart I gave you a definition of what isn't a great thing

it's a bit hard too define, but let's look back to WX in don't starve

if you ask me, the only time a character has ever been OP is WX right now in singleplayer don't starve (with hamlet/shiprekt)

Building the shop that sells gears, and using thunderbirds for lightning can make WX infinitely and easily sustainable. Infinite light, speed, health, hunger, sanity, that is pretty overpowered.

Shiprekt you can just rely on hurricane season (although a bit less consistent) for lightning and you can just kill mobs to spawn clockwork boats for free gears, they are incredibly easily to kill.

What you can accomplish him are pretty substantial to the point were it kind of stunts the game a bit because you can become so powerful you won't need to do much else

[Yuuko]

sry I skipped over most of the second page.

Unless the Wicker re-work is a complete overhaul in the "you won't recognize her" category then I don't want any nerfs to her at the point where she is reading her books.  Her books should be OP as they are her bonus.  Every characters bonus should be OP, and with Willow, Winona, and Wendy we're seeing that.  If anything she needs more books with interesting mechanics and challenges that are actually meaningful to acquire her great power.

I think the best way to hit her is in recipe cost and crafting access to her books.  I really don't care if she can read at 0 sanity or not, I don't think that "downside" presents a real obstacle.  It just means I bring a stack of cooked cactus / green mushrooms along with my piles of books.  It doesn't really change anything, so why bother changing it?  I think limiting her reading based on sanity is especially bad considering she is one of the few characters who can actually benefit from stationing on the lunar island.

What should be done is simply increase the recipe costs for her books so that she needs more rare and exotic materials to craft them, or even just require a great amount of resources.  If on tentacles is too strong with 1 tentacle spot (because it will turn into a tentacle spot farm) then increase the cost to 2-3 of the spots.  Maybe require a dragonfly scale or toadstool skin for some epic new books too!

Also I think a great addition would be to give her access to some books only at the ancient and lunar crafting stations.

While I would say Wicker is OP - she isn't the type of OP that pushes other characters out of the game.  I don't think many people join a game with wicker and wish they also picked wicker <_<  In fact seeing someone play wicker might actually make you want to pick a certain character because of the synergy between them! (not just WX, but also Wormwood and Warley really benefit from the applied horticulture, Maxwell can read the books which is fun, and Wurt can read them for sanity management too!)  Even characters without a specific synergy with Wicker are helped to realize their potential if anything by allowing them to take a break from growing berries and gathering grass / twigs and letting them actually DO something.

IF Wicker were nerfed to be unable to create a lot of her end game farms I really hope it is because crafts to reproduce such farms are made available to everyone.  It would really suck to lose something like her grass / twig / bird / krampus farms.

 

 

[Sinister_Fang]

On 5/3/2020 at 11:15 AM, bagherthegamer said:

As a maxwell main i think we need to give the books a special effect  when used by maxwell. Sorta like a stronger effect for some of the books like end is nigh while withering the plants with applied holticulture. 

Kinda late to the party, but as a (mostly) Maxwell main, I really don't want to see this. It's already powerful enough that he can use another character's specific items. Especially since they have a hefty sanity cost, and that's barely an issue for someone who recovers sanity simply by existing. If they become more powerful in another character's hands, we're just gonna end up in another swap character situation.