Looking for bead pump based sour gas boilers

[NurdRage]

Does anyone have designs for bead pump based sour gas boilers? I'm very interested in what's been done. I tried using the search function (both forum and google) but could not find anything 

[Saturnus]

I posted something about a bead pump based sour gas boiler I made in August or September on discord but I'm having no luck finding it right now.

As I recall it used a double bead pump. One for the crude to sour gas boiling, and one for the counterflow sour gas cooler by dripping the liquid methane in from the top of a long tube connected to the sour gas stream.

[NurdRage]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

I posted something about a bead pump based sour gas boiler I made in August or September on discord but I'm having no luck finding it right now.

Do you have a save file or picture of it?

[Saturnus]

2 hours ago, NurdRage said:

Do you have a save file or picture of it?

That's the problem. I uninstalled the game after the recreational upgrade since in my mind if the devs had given up on the game then why should I care about it. I haven't played since. I still have a gazillion screenshots but it'd take a while to sift through.

[NurdRage]

Just now, Saturnus said:

That's the problem. I uninstalled the game after the recreational upgrade since I my mind if the devs had given up on the game then why should I care about it. I haven't played since. I still have a gazillion screenshots but it'd take a while to sift through.

ah gotcha, my apologies. I didn't mean to press you. 

Don't worry about it. 

[Oozinator]

Not what you asked for but ..
https://imgur.com/a/BO9Lbqt

 

On 29.12.2019 at 1:35 PM, Saturnus said:

I uninstalled the game after the recreational upgrade since in my mind if the devs had given up on the game..

Similar here, since release final..
2k hours on the clock before that, perhaps 20 after..

ONI is now far away, to become the new settlers, but once it was on a good path, into gaming history(from my point of view).
I really liked your analytic posts here, borg cube times where nice times.

Happy new year
 

[NurdRage]

29 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

Not what you asked for but ..
https://imgur.com/a/BO9Lbqt

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Nitroturtle]

On 12/29/2019 at 7:08 AM, NurdRage said:

Does anyone have designs for bead pump based sour gas boilers? I'm very interested in what's been done. I tried using the search function (both forum and google) but could not find anything 

What happened to the one you posted about the other day?  I thought it was an interesting build, but seems the post is gone now.

[NurdRage]

Just now, Nitroturtle said:

What happened to the one you posted about the other day?  I thought it was an interesting build, but seems the post is gone now.

After being shatted on by Lifegrow for being flawed, terribly designed and unoriginal (not to mention utterly useless),  i deleted the post and wanted to find all the other designs that are out there. I don't want to be an utter fool by posting something already done to death.

So here i am looking for them. I'll post my own after i remove all the unoriginal parts, if there is anything left. 

[Dosephshih]

On 2019/12/29 at 8:08 PM, NurdRage said:

Does anyone have designs for bead pump based sour gas boilers? I'm very interested in what's been done. I tried using the search function (both forum and google) but could not find anything 

May I ask what is the meaning of bead pump? Is it refer to mini pump based?

I remember there is a post of pre-space sour gas boiler, which is using 1kg/s pocket of heat exchanging.

[NurdRage]

 

It's just a way to drop liquids as tiles rather than drops. It's not a new way to make sour gas, you still need aquatuners or high heat. And as-Is, it's not even helpful to make sour gas.

But you stack it with a column of alternating conductive and insulating tiles. It becomes an ultra-efficient heat exchanger and lets you make 30kg/s to 60kg/s of sour gas with a single aquatuner.

I'm fascinated by the extremely efficient design and hence my interest. I honestly thought i had an original idea when i paired it with the specially designed column, but it turns out it's been done to death.

So i want to find those other designs. Haven't seen any though. 

[Dosephshih]

10 minutes ago, NurdRage said:

It's just a way to drop liquids as tiles rather than drops. It's not a new way to make sour gas, you still need aquatuners or high heat. And as-Is, it's not even helpful to make sour gas.

But you stack it with a column of alternating conductive and insulating tiles. It becomes an ultra-efficient heat exchanger and lets you make 30kg/s to 60kg/s of sour gas with a single aquatuner.

I'm fascinated by the extremely efficient design and hence my interest. I honestly thought i had an original idea when i paired it with the specially designed column, but it turns out it's been done to death.

So i want to find those other designs. Haven't seen any though. 

I see now, thanks! It sounds complicated to me, haha.

BTW, I think even the efficiency is very high, but the heat used to heat the oil to sour gas or cooling capacity to cooling down to methane is sill limited by the coolant at aquatuner. 30kg/s sounds very far from that point. (In my own sour gas boiler, the flow rate is only about 1.5kg/s, really low in comparison)

[NurdRage]

7 minutes ago, Dosephshih said:

I see now, thanks! It sounds complicated to me, haha.

BTW, I think even the efficiency is very high, but the heat used to heat the oil to sour gas or cooling capacity to cooling down to methane is sill limited by the coolant at aquatuner. 30kg/s sounds very far from that point. (In my own sour gas boiler, the flow rate is only about 1.5kg/s, really low in comparison)

 

That's the magic of having a super efficient heat exchanger. You can use small amounts of heat to produce ungodly amounts of sour gas. 

I deleted my original post. But i demonstrated a 30kg/s sour gas boiler that used a single aquatuner for the heat source. Now it still needed 5 additional aquatuners for the cooling power. But since they were only used for cooling, they were made from steel and put in a steam chamber. Only 1 thermium aquatuner was needed to actually do the sour gas boiling.

Here's a screen shot

 

Look in the lower left corner. That's it. One aquatuner is boiling 30kg/s of oil into sour gas. 

Even more hilarious was the demonstration of a 60kg/s unit. I didn't bother collecting the gas and just vented it into space. But it did work on a single aquatuner.

But you're still right, boiling is just one side of the equation, the other side is cooling and you still need lots of aquatuners for that. Fortunately they can be much cheaper steel versions than expensive thermium. 

 

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, NurdRage said:

After being shatted on by Lifegrow for being flawed, terribly designed and unoriginal (not to mention utterly useless),  i deleted the post and wanted to find all the other designs that are out there.

Did you ask him to show you other posts that use bead pumps as an efficient heat exchanger? I haven't seen them, and I've been following their development since naming them (see @nakomaru post linked above if you want links to more threads on the bead pump). Most people discount them and toss bead pumps away as useless, though they are the only pump I know of that can reach a flow rate that matches viscosity.  Very useful for high volume flow. 

Your post was the only post in the last long while that I felt like commenting on.  I wrote " @NurdRage    ".  It was a wonderful post, great to read, and something I'd love to see more of. 

Lifegrow can be a grump sometimes, but his comments are often very useful. Add your post back up (you may be able to get the devs to unhide it - just private message one of them and ask for them to unhide it). Here is a link to the deleted post, if they need it.  

Keep having fun.  Realize that when you post, you may start a lively discussion sometimes, with arguments running on both sides about it being useful or not. Don't despair if one very loud voice goes against you. I still laugh at how many people came onto @Gamers Handbook's post about a new way to deal with distributing power, and they all discredited it as being done again and again (not original).  On the contrary, it was a completely new take on power management that no one had posted about before, ever. Even a month later, people kept coming on to say, "this is not new", but it was. I'm guessing some people still don't see the novel approach, and discredit the thread completely.  Their loss.

You're onto something.  With flow rates into the 100kg/s range, bead pumps have a lot of unlocked potential, though you'll find plenty of veterans tell you they are a waste of time....  

Keep having fun.  I look forward to seeing more of your stuff. 

[Dosephshih]

20 minutes ago, NurdRage said:

 

That's the magic of having a super efficient heat exchanger. You can use small amounts of heat to produce ungodly amounts of sour gas. 

 

Thanks again.

Finally I figure it out, due to very efficient counter-flow heat exchange. When the oil drop to the heating aquatuner, it is actually very near the boiling point. May be I can try to improve my own build with improving the pre-heating part.

[NurdRage]

29 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

Did you ask him to show you other posts that use bead pumps as an efficient heat exchanger? 

I sent a message and currently waiting for a reply. If there isn't any than i'll reconsider posting mine. If there is, i'll just post a link to that one and give the original inventor the credit.

[caffeinated21]

Hey Nurdrage,

Couple questions / comments on your design:

1. what’s the output temp of the Sour gas as it leaves the bead pump? 

2.to cut down on cooling requirements you could upgrade your sour-gas / NG heat exchanger. Couple ideas: commingle the gases. NG will rise to the top so no need to pump the methane. S- turns to increase path length. At the flow rates you’re doing you will build up enormous pressures to get to stability, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Counterflow the sulfur too; it’s only ~20% of the thermal mass but it’s not nothing. Also makes cool yellow fumes went you vaporize it and vent it to space 

[NurdRage]

1 minute ago, caffeinated21 said:

Hey Nurdrage,

Couple questions on your design:

1. what’s the output temp of the Sour gas as it leaves the bead pump? 

2.to cut down on cooling requirements you could upgrade your sour-gas / NG heat exchanger. Couple ideas: commingle the gases. NG will rise to the top so no need to pump the methane. S- turns to increase path length. At the flow rates you’re doing you will build up enormous pressures to get to stability, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Counterflow the sulfur too; it’s only ~20% of the thermal mass but it’s not nothing. Also makes cool yellow fumes went you vaporize it and vent it to space 

1. 160C-200C depending on design.

2. First, i want to thank you for being magnitudes more polite than the last guy who made "suggestions".

You're completely correct and most of those ideas would work. Only increased path length would be of limited benefit because the path is already very long. I avoided comingling purely for testing purposes (I didn't want to deal with sour gas escaping during an upset), but a future build may allow comingling. Definitely on the drawing board. For similar reasons i avoid sulfur just for ease of design.

Overall, i was brute forcing the cooling (by just using more and more aquatuners) because i was more focused on working out the idiosyncrasies of the boiling tower. I also wanted a relatively simple to understand build. Too much extra subsystems, even if they're better, can make a build unapproachable in complexity. 

 

... But i do want yellow fumes in the future  

 

[Nitroturtle]

@mathmanican summed it up nicely.  I don't remember ever seeing a bead pump boiler and I enjoyed looking over your build.  I even snagged the save file.

Some people thrive off negativity.  Just ignore it and keep doing your thing.

[Gamers Handbook]

@mathmanican Is right, people don't always understand what's going on and are too quick to cast accusations about originality.  This is especially true if you only have a new take on a portion of a typical build as I did (no matter how awesome that portion may be), as it seems people only spot the part they're familiar with and ignore the rest.  I've never stopped getting those kinds of comments on that post and video, and it's been a couple months now.  @tofof even has an epic level explanation for those type of people on the first page and still I get the comments!  Don't let those people get you down; be confident in what you have (obviously this means you've checked first and that confidence is based in fact) and ask for proof of their accusations.

I'm glad to see you made a new post, because I'm super interested in the application of this concept in relation to sour gas boilers and I don't want to see you discouraged.  In fact, that context was the driving force behind me getting into bead pumps.  I searched high and low; here, on reddit, and on YouTube when I made my video about gas elevators. I didn't find a single bead pump related sour gas build.  I barely found anything bead pump related actually.  I believe you have a very unique perspective on a sour gas boiler, and I absolutely wanna see more of it.  My next stop is reading your new related thread, which for anyone else curious is here: 

 

[NurdRage]

Thanks.

Interestingly enough, my continued explorations of the design has revealed a new design philosophy that makes it even smaller and more efficient. I'm actually working on a new thread to incorporate this newfound knowledge.

You can see the design philosophy in "The OSHA Hater" build. 

Once i polish off the info i'll describe exactly how it works and how to approach it in a new thread. 

[Lifegrow]

On 31/12/2019 at 12:47 AM, NurdRage said:

After being shatted on by Lifegrow for being flawed, terribly designed and unoriginal (not to mention utterly useless),  i deleted the post and wanted to find all the other designs that are out there.

I only just saw this now else I'd have posted a damned sight sooner - I didn't say anything negative about your build, I even went as far as to offer some pointers and take my time to find you pictures of reference builds once you had asked me.

I wasn't negative in the slightest, nor did I say any of the things you've stated I said. In all actuality it was one of the only threads i'd even been bothered to post on in some time as it actually piqued my interest that somebody else was going down the rabbit hole of sour gas boilers (something i've tinkered with a lot); and I even said this to you in my initial post. I @'ed mathmanican and some others whom I'd thought would also find it interesting, and to bring their attention to the thread. 

Then you hid your thread. Then you proceeded to contact me directly :

Spoiler

The tone of which made me think you were somewhat of a nutjob, so I ignored it. 

Now I see the above quote and see that my detailed response to you was worth absolutely nothing. I suggest you grow up and learn not to spit your dummy out quite so quickly at the first sign of helpful feedback - and certainly then don't go out of your way to libel someone who had actively tried to help you.

Great work on the build though - nice to see you took everybody's advice and implemented it for your refined version without thanking them. Shatting on the shoulders of giants you might say...

[NurdRage]

14 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I only just saw this now else I'd have posted a damned sight sooner - I didn't say anything negative about your build,

Except for everything wrong with it and when i tried to defend certain design decisions, going for simplicity and ease of build, you say it didn't matter anyway as no one would want to build it (being as big as it is). Useless as it were.

19 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I even went as far as to offer some pointers and take my time to find you pictures of reference builds once you had asked me.

Yeah, still waiting for those pictures. I just got pictures of bead pumps. But no bead-pump boilers. 

Granted, maybe i wasn't specific enough. Which is why i sent the message specifically asking for bead-pump boilers.

 

24 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

I wasn't negative in the slightest, nor did I say any of the things you've stated I said.

You started off by mocking my statement where i said these were the smallest boilers anywhere, that pretty much set the tone.

 

39 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

 In all actuality it was one of the only threads i'd even been bothered to post on in some time as it actually piqued my interest that somebody else was going down the rabbit hole of sour gas boilers (something i've tinkered with a lot); and I even said this to you in my initial post. I @'ed mathmanican and some others whom I'd thought would also find it interesting, and to bring their attention to the thread. 

And imagine my unbridled excitement to find my hero responding to the thread only to find the key innovation (or at least i thought it was), the bead pump boiler, was completely ignored. And the parts i specifically said were common to other boilers (the coolers, exchangers and what not), to be nitpicked over. 

When i specifically asked about the tower heat exchanger (the part that makes the bead pump boiler actually work, without which it's nothing more than a gas pump) I was told it was already known. And hence the message.

 

48 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

Then you hid your thread. Then you proceeded to contact me directly :

  Reveal hidden contents

The tone of which made me think you were somewhat of a nutjob, so I ignored it. 
 

You didn't even look at it for days. The Klei forums have a feature that let you see if someone had read a message. I eagerly checked everyday to see if you saw my message in hopes you might have specific info on bead-pump boilers. It remained "Not Read Yet" for days.

When you called me a "sweet summer child" i deleted the thread because i thought you were absolutely right. That i knew nothing about sour gas boilers and so i needed to do more research. Hence the message you didn't read, and this thread looking for more info. I didn't want to be so ignorant that you would call me that. And i'm still trying to find out more about them. 

 

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

Now I see the above quote and see that my detailed response to you was worth absolutely nothing. I suggest you grow up and learn not to spit your dummy out quite so quickly at the first sign of helpful feedback - and certainly then don't go out of your way to libel someone who had actively tried to help you.
 

I'm trying to and hence the research. And it's not libel if it's true... which is why i deleted the post because i actually agree with you. I agree that it had problems. I agree that i was being presumptuous for making those compact boilers. I agree that it wasn't original. I agree that i know jack about sour gas boilers. You taking a dump all over it was the wake up call i needed to realize i didn't know what i was doing. I actually agree.  If it "was worth absolutely nothing" i would have done nothing. It didn't, i meant a lot to me. 

 

1 hour ago, Lifegrow said:

Great work on the build though - nice to see you took everybody's advice and implemented it for your refined version without thanking them. Shatting on the shoulders of giants you might say...

I haven't even posted the thread about my most recent findings yet. How are you so certain I didn't thank everyone? 

That build is an abstract/demo, to show what can be done. I find most articles do not put citations in their abstracts. 

I want to give credit to where it's due and i specifically said i want to find the earlier inventor just so i could give them the credit:

On 12/30/2019 at 9:26 PM, NurdRage said:

I sent a message and currently waiting for a reply. If there isn't any than i'll reconsider posting mine. If there is, i'll just post a link to that one and give the original inventor the credit.

If you're the inventor, that's great, my search is over. I'll cite you from now on. 

[Lifegrow]

9 hours ago, NurdRage said:

You didn't even look at it for days. The Klei forums have a feature that let you see if someone had read a message. I eagerly checked everyday to see if you saw my message in hopes you might have specific info on bead-pump boilers. It remained "Not Read Yet" for days.

 

12 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

The tone of which made me think you were somewhat of a nutjob, so I ignored it. 

Vindication. Don't expect any further responses.

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey everyone, remember to always keep discussions constructive! When the post refers to another user in a certain way, that might end up derailing the conversation. Let's keep things on-topic