Gamers Handbook

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  1. @psusi Yes, the power shutoff bug is very annoying when it hits. Since it only activates when you save while the automation is toggling, allowing wider gaps in your smart batteries so they aren't cycling as often helps a little bit. For automated fixes, I proposed this solution: There was also a couple other solutions proposed in another thread but I can't find the thread. (tagging @crypticorb here too) I know in that thread I proposed using a liquid shutoff and sensor to monitor when the power cuts out and then flip the signal to reset the power shutoffs, and someone else proposed using a powered smart container to do the same thing. They both worked, the smart container was a bit closer to the desired instant reset, and of course each is much more responsive than clocks once a day. So there's options which can help alleviate or undo the bug, but ofcourse nothing is as good as if Klei actually just fixes the bug (no news there as far as I know). It may be worth implementing one of the faster solutions if you're constantly finding yourself re-syncing your batteries or if they control something extremely power sensitive. Personally, it's rare enough for me to get hit with it that I don't use any protections from it and just slide around the battery percentage bars and resync the batteries if it happens. As for syncing, they will never be in perfect sync. They'll be close enough though. You can also just use relative battery percentage values between different transformer flippers though. Like you pointed out, they're still charging and discharging at the same rates. So you just set your generator "on" percentages based off of what feels like a good balance of your fuels. I prefer to sync them so I know specifically when things are going on and off, but you don't have to sync if you don't want to. @crypticorb I haven't submitted any additional bug reports. This is my original submission: Oh ya, let's see how you slimmed the layout up. That specific layout was chosen simply because it was the easiest to understand when trying to show it to someone. I fully expect people to rearrange things to fit into their builds. @ForTheQueen and @psusi The bug is triggered when the signal flips from red to green during a save, and then that save is loaded. If merely a delay was needed, then I wouldn't have been able to reproduce the bug with NOT gates. @crypticorb is right. See my test here: @ForTheQueen I had experimented with timed transformer flippers (instead of demand/charge based like it is now), but it breaks the syncing between the two batteries in the transformer flipper too much. It's just not consistent. @psusi Each battery charges equally, so you're putting twice as much power into the side with 2 batteries. I imagine this has something to do with your issues trying to get both sides to sync. @Bloxxed I haven't ever made save files, so I'm not sure how to do that. Either way, unfortunately the save file I made the video in got corrupted like a day after I made the video. Since then my next 2 sandboxes have gotten corrupted as well as my original base I ran the design in. I'm not sure what's up with the corrupting games; only my 2 most recent bases haven't gotten corrupted. However, it's been working great in all my bases and sandbox maps. If you let me know what you're specifically having trouble with, maybe I could post some pictures that would help? I also made a long-form livestream video (2 parts since my internet died in the middle) showing the process of building it, perhaps that would be helpful?:
  2. @mathmanican Is right, people don't always understand what's going on and are too quick to cast accusations about originality. This is especially true if you only have a new take on a portion of a typical build as I did (no matter how awesome that portion may be), as it seems people only spot the part they're familiar with and ignore the rest. I've never stopped getting those kinds of comments on that post and video, and it's been a couple months now. @tofof even has an epic level explanation for those type of people on the first page and still I get the comments! Don't let those people get you down; be confident in what you have (obviously this means you've checked first and that confidence is based in fact) and ask for proof of their accusations. I'm glad to see you made a new post, because I'm super interested in the application of this concept in relation to sour gas boilers and I don't want to see you discouraged. In fact, that context was the driving force behind me getting into bead pumps. I searched high and low; here, on reddit, and on YouTube when I made my video about gas elevators. I didn't find a single bead pump related sour gas build. I barely found anything bead pump related actually. I believe you have a very unique perspective on a sour gas boiler, and I absolutely wanna see more of it. My next stop is reading your new related thread, which for anyone else curious is here:
  3. @psusi I think I'll need a picture to help diagnose further. Yup, you could use 2 batteries per side and a large transformer to control 2 close sets of different generators as your transformer flipper. If you do this, please post a pic to show everyone this neat adaptation. (Hey, you did! Sweet!) @crypticorb I went with a spread out flipper for demonstration purposes so it was easier to understand. I fully expect people to compact them like you've done here and to jamb them into weird spaces to fit them into their builds. Your layout looks like it'll work just fine. As to the 1kw wires, it's just the lowest common denominator. You can absolutely use conductive wire for the backbone if you want to (say you have a metal volcano or abundance of lead). In fact, in my last base I swapped the entire backbone over to conductive once I got lead. @psusi The batteries in the transformer flipper are paired because they're mirrors of each other. That way the one that controls the generator has the same (relatively/ within reason/ close enough) charge as the one controlling the flipping, and therefore an accurate reading to know when to turn the generator on and off. If you made every transformer flipper in your power grid in this manner, or was fine with a relative setting (aka feeling it out and just adjusting the smart battery setting as you see fit based off of results, like you'd do if you didn't want to sync your batteries) it seems like it could work. @crypticorb I'd have to see a picture to know for sure what you're talking about. I assumed most people using solar are either going to hook the panels directly up to the main power line, or they're going to hook them up to a battery bank and then use a transformer (or many) to push charge out of the batteries into the main power line. This means they'd always be using the solar power first, rather than a situation where solar is turned on and off. However, I think a transformer flipper controlling a power shutoff (instead of a generator) that ties your solar power into the main power line should work to turn solar power on and off when you want. To supply more than 2kW, your generators and transformer flippers are fine. Your flippers at your consumers are what need adjusted. You can either do multiple flippers (so one for each AT), or you can do a heavy watt wire flipper. Once you have the heavy watt wire flipper complete, you handle the aquatuners like normal. You can either run heavy watt to them, or you can place transformers and run 2kW wire to them like a normal power grid. Keep in mind if your AT have a lot of uptime, I've found there's a certain point in which a flipper can't pass charge through fast enough for loads >2kW. If that happens to you, just add another battery on each side of the flipper (or switch to two flippers). If it's intermittent use of the AT, you'll probably be fine with a regular heavy watt wire flipper, and maybe even one that uses only 1 battery. @psusi What a neat alteration of the transformer flipper. Not only do you have an uneven amount of batteries, you also have 2 transformers (one for each battery set) instead of the power shutoffs. Just looking at it, other than the concerns (but not deal breakers) with the unbalanced batteries I mentioned earlier, it looks like it'll work pretty good. Since you posted this a couple weeks ago, how's it been performing since then? Any issues? @nakomaru Weird inconsistent performance and annoyances like you pointed out (I'd rather not have to rebuild an army of transformers every time I want to change generator usage priorities) are exactly the kind of things that drove me into lots of experimenting and eventually designing the Transformer Flipper.
  4. @psusi By a conventional smart battery, I assume you mean one used as part of a Heavy Watt Backbone? The charging will be the same rate, as all the generators are hooked into the main power line and therefore all the batteries in both scenarios. The discharging will be limited to 2kW max with a Transformer Flipper, and that won't be all the time either due to the toggling nature. 2kW in a Heavy Watt Backbone power grid is only 8kW of constant power draw with 4 smart batteries, which is a pretty realistic situation (say one battery each for: nat gas, hydrogen, coal, and petroleum generators). And this is the scenarios that favor the Heavy Watt Backbone; use 1 transformer in the Transformer Flipper or have more than 8kW of constant power draw or less smart batteries in a Heavy Watt Backbone and the Transformer Flipper battery is going to discharge slower than a conventional smart battery. Can you provide a picture? I can't help but thinking that something is wired up differently. Are all transformer flippers either one or two transformer? (don't mix and match, everything is either one or the other) Are your generators hooked into the main power line? If you had your generators wired only into the transformer flipper, then that would be causing charge spikes. Also tripping on a huge batch of generators coming on at once when you have a relatively low power demand (say you consume 2kW, but have 20kW of generators wired up) could cause a similar charging spike.
  5. That's the point I was [in-eloquently] trying to make earlier, it's because of the drained battery. @nakomaru NOT gates can still desync every other one when they're chained. Whatever they changed in that update, it made it so one NOT gate works with switching batteries, but timing can still be an issue if you are trying to do more complex stuff. I assume for your small battery example you were sending the automation pulse with another gate? https://imgur.com/a/ayiE3rB
  6. So recently I noticed that an Ez Bead (see @nakomaru‘s post here) will displace gas upwards when the bead has walls on either side. Using this principle, it’s possible to: pump gas very quickly, pump gas to high pressures, pump to vacuum, and keep the temperatures of two gas rooms fairly well isolated from each other. It’s also extremely energy efficient and only requires one type of liquid. I call it a Gas Elevator. Here’s a YouTube video with additional information, including an example (at the end) of how it might be used to keep a natural gas geyser from over pressurizing. I did a search and couldn’t find anyone using it in a build, but the search function isn't the greatest so if anyone currently uses this in one of their builds, I’d love to hear about it (and see screenshots!). I think it has a lot of potential uses. Anyway, I think this mechanic is super cool and I wanted to share it with you guys. I know someone here will find an interesting way to fully utilize this, if they haven’t already…
  7. Not only does a coal generator have an interesting set of boxes that must be checked before it will even request coal, they also can't be resupplied when receiving a red automation signal. I agree that this is very annoying, and I'm told there's a mod to change if for those who like mods. However, this issue isn't related to transformer flippers, it is just something that happens when using automation (so basically smart batteries) with coal generators in general. An autosweeper and container full of coal next to the generators will improve the situation, as will having a larger range on the smart battery turning on the coal generators (say 70-90% vs 85-90%). They aren't fixes, but they do make using automated coal generators much more tolerable. And if you have a lot of coal you can always burn a generator (or several) wide open 24/7 without automation, if you really wanted to.
  8. I was operating under the assumption this is one small segment that will be expanded into a full power grid. In that case, people use it as a way to get around heavy watt wire.
  9. I believe they used the transformer so they could use a smart battery and have their generators shut off when power wasn't needed. Without a smart battery, the generators would run endlessly. Without a transformer the smart battery would always remain full and therefore be useless. @whodunit A picture of your automation overlay may be helpful as well as the settings on your smart battery
  10. So in my video I used for reporting the bug I proposed a solution for automatically fixing power shutoffs that get stuck. That may work fine for many power consumers, however for transformer flippers you will still get desync issues. So check out this forum post where some more complicated things were proposed that should work for near instant resetting of the power shutoffs:
  11. @whodunit You have 13 fridges for a total of 1560W, but are only supplying them with 1000W from a small transformer. Even with switching batteries you can't keep all the fridges running at the same time, because the switching batteries aren't supplied with enough power for the fridges running 24/7. Basically you can't keep both batteries charged and that's why you're seeing the power go out. If you change your setup so that the batteries stay charged (like by hooking that second transformer in and supplying 2kw to the batteries), everything should work how you want it to. @nakomaru They patched the timing months ago and an OR gate is no longer needed for switching/flipper battery setups. One NOT gate is perfectly fine for a switching/flipper battery. @psusi Hey I know that design! My guess is he's trying to do a different older method that was developed before I posted my transformer flipper though, something like @Mullematsch shows on page 1.
  12. @The Flying Fox You need to read page 1, specifically @tofof's amazing alternative explanation post, as we've been over this many times. Or watch the video. This is a new concept and you are concentrating on the consumer side of the power grid (which is a normal flipper battery setup as stated in the video and therefore nothing new) instead of the generator side where the transformer flipper is. The transformer flipper is the new concept; and it isn't merely a generator, battery, and transformer like you have shown in your pictures.
  13. Pre-space sour gas boiler V3

    @DRAKCORE How do we make propane? Also I've found liquid methane in an aquatuner to be excellent... in sandbox mode. Pre-cooling the cooler and then swapping to the methane without damage was not as reliable as I wanted. The cooling area could also warm the methane up too much if sour gas was pushed in too fast or the cooling area was too large and each methane packet was exposed to too much heat. And of course you'll still need hydrogen thermoregulators or something to make the methane originally. But I really think the most efficient non space cooling solution is going to involve liquid methane in an aquatuner. For this design, how much excess power does this generate? As in what's the power per second when you take the average power provided and subtract the average power consumed?
  14. For anyone who was asking for additional clarification via a long form video, including dupes building the design, I recently tried out YouTube's live stream feature doing just that. Unfortunately my rural ISP dropped my connection mid stream so it's in two parts. Part one is here (starts at ~4:40) and part two is here. @KittenIsAGeek The differences between the traditional flipper battery setup you mention and this design are laid out very well in @tofof's post on page 1. This design's main benefit over the design you showed is being able to tier your power generation, just like we do with a basic heavy watt backbone design. This is a feature many people really like, myself included. Your design can do that, but it requires extra power or automation wires, or a central battery bank, or having all your generators in the same place, or going back to a heavy watt backbone design. While the concept for this design might be confusing, actually building and using it isn't hard at all (check out the live stream I just linked above for proof of that). As secondary and tertiary benefits, this design's power output also isn't limited by heavy watt wire's capacity (which is important to those with HUGE bases), and it isn't limited by the output of large transformers since the generators are hooked directly to the main power wire.
  15. @BLACKBERREST3 That was fixed awhile ago and I believe we've actually discussed it in the past. The point I'm getting at is how one weak wire on an otherwise fine circuit will overload. I believe when the battery is discharging on the heavy watt circuit that regular wire is technically connected to the heavy watt and will overload even though that power shutoff is in the disconnected/off state. Breaks are good, it leaves the game still fun and exciting when we come back. I've been playing the new Call of Duty for the last 2 weeks. @psusi Thanks! The problem is the transformer becomes a bottleneck. I tried different forms of "boosters" and they just didn't seem to help at all (and sometimes made it worse). With this system it's much better to just have more generators ready to turn on and their fuel stockpiled, especially since batteries lose charge and create heat just by existing.