Easily the highest rate of heat deletion

[fragtzack]

Am guilty of intentionally spacing mass quantities of CO2 and some O2 to space.

How come never see any of the vid makers do this?

Or do other folks do this and just not seeing the crime?

Does spacing lower the opinion of base quality by folks?

 

[Chthonicone]

Just now, fragtzack said:

Am guilty of intentionally spacing mass quantities of CO2 and some O2 to space.

How come never see any of the vid makers do this?

Or do other folks do this and just not seeing the crime?

Does spacing lower the opinion of base quality by folks?

 

If I can, I would rather use that heat to produce power myself.

I still space excess CO2 though.

[WanderingKid]

It's slow. CO2 has a horrible Thermal Conductivity, and O2 is usually a lot more valuable.

Edit: I should mention the conductivity of water / steam is incredibly higher and has the added benefit of attaching it to a turbine and never caring again.  The only reason to use mass deletion via vacuum is because you don't want to deal with the element in question, not because of the heat deletion. Even dumping heat to petroleum and deleting it via power production is a more closed system that doesn't involve large vents if you're dealing with close to the oil biome.

[chemie]

I have to vent oxygen to get sufficient h2 for lh2 rockets, but that is not for heat deletion.

[mathmanican]

8 hours ago, fragtzack said:

do other folks do this

Tons of posts about it.  Here is one of my favorite from @avc15.

 

[kapoff]

I vent many gas in space too.
CO2 mainly but every gas which overpressure tanks : NG, Hydrogen, sour gas...

Not for heat deletion (steam turbine is so efficient for this).

[fragtzack]

My reason for venting is also getting rid of unwanted gas, but what I found is that so much of the gas being vented was cool that I started routing it through the main base and some other areas to collect heat on the way out.

My main power brick is cooled by a single aquatuner so well, that the whole brick included petro generator stays around -5C.  This makes all the C02 coming out very cool, about 20C while leaving the  the power brick area in non insulated pipes. With petro generator, gas generators and ethanol distils there is a lot of C02.

 So instead of just venting straight to space, routing the C02 through spaces that could use some extra cooling and the the C02 pipes has collected enough heat to be about 60C at venting.

As I have 4 pipes venting to space, 3 of the pipes with a constant steam of 1K packets this appears to be a huge amount of heat being deleted heck a heck of a lot easier to deal with then carbon skimmer or trying to reuse Co2 in other fashions.

[Gurgel]

10 hours ago, fragtzack said:

Am guilty of intentionally spacing mass quantities of CO2 and some O2 to space.

How come never see any of the vid makers do this?

Or do other folks do this and just not seeing the crime?

Does spacing lower the opinion of base quality by folks?

 

I do this routinely, mostly with liquids though.  And I have absolutely no problem with it at all, no "crime" here. 

[avc15]

 

Here's where I'm at right now with this.

 

It still uses one of two exhaust sources - CO2 when there's enough, PW when there isn't. Between the two, I'm cooling my whole base just by heating up power plant exhaust and venting to space.

I needed some tech to transmit cooling fluid across long distances / hot areas and still minimizing losses. That's why the original one was at the center of the asteroid, but I figured it out so now that this thing lives on the surface it can be much smaller.

One early game benefit is that this provides high temp steam for your first handful of rocket launches. High temp is important because it gives your piping a chance to heat up above 100C before the steam might condense in the pipes.

Sources of gas exhaust?

(1) gas traps I have set up all over my asteroid pump CO2 through the hot tank

 

(2) any piped CO2 from buildings goes through the same path, heated then vented overboard

(3) my main power plant generates absurd amounts of CO2 and a significant amount of pwater. Purpose built for this cooling plant. The ethanol cycle has some issues of its own, but it's strictly the best option here. Petrol generators fed by an ethanol processing plant - combined, they produce the most exhaust material of any power plant in the game.

 

.. and it's not even done, when it's done we'll be running 8 more ethanol distillers. Once I have niobium and super coolant available, I'll be overhauling the cold tank to hold Ethanol instead of Pwater. More on that later, but the benefit there is that ethanol can store almost double the potential energy to room temp as a coolant than pwater, because of its very low freeze point. Means you can get more work out of a single cooling loop.

(4) when that's all not enough, inlet doors lock shut & vent doors lock open - I pump some of the pwater back up. Look how much pwater I'm collecting from this thing, I just have too much & there are no bad feels at all for throwing some water overboard:

 

I'll make another post for this build once I come up with working automation. Automation is challenging because the highest pressure I can detect is 20 kg. I need a way to indirectly measure pressures higher than that, one way or another.

Wild tree farm:

 

The trees are also part of the cooling strategy, I use the wood to moderate exhaust temp, before it gets vented through the hot tank. Even though I'm not intentionally using the temp reset bug, it's impossible to completely avoid. If that bug were fixed tomorrow, though, this would still be a worthwhile thing to add to the build.

 

[NurdRage]

I also space large quantities of excess liquids and gases. I see as perfectly valid because geysers and volcanoes give you free stuff, it's intentional. If you kept all the resources that came out then after a number of cycles your base would overflow. Deleting them by growing plants, animals or what not is no different to me than spacing them but with more convoluted steps. 

 

Now if the game was *exactly* mass conservative with every input in mass causing a corresponding loss somewhere else then i might say spacing is dirty way of dealing with problems. But it's not mass conservative once you start tapping volcanoes and geysers.

[0xFADE]

Co2 is very valuable.  You can turn it in to crude or petroleum at a rate of 50% and some extra meat. 

[mathmanican]

3 hours ago, avc15 said:

the highest pressure I can detect is 20 kg.

I bet you can use a gas conflict, and the expansion rate of gasses, to get this up over 200kg. Would require some gas taming, but I bet it can (1) work and (2) be completely predictable. Haven't done it yet, but seems doable.

[avc15]

37 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Co2 is very valuable.  You can turn it in to crude or petroleum at a rate of 50% and some extra meat. 

Cooling is pretty valuable too, and this isn't a waste. The end goal would be to pump heat into exhaust up to thermium temps (~~1000C) before venting overboard, cutting the quantity of exhaust vented overboard to about 25%.

I mean look at this. I have CO2 to spare, and I could feed slicks if I wanted to: (pictured, a third of Engineering, all of engineering is pressurized to 120 kg CO2)

 

40 pacu, 16 voles (2 happy - 14 glum), and 8 glossy dreckos make all the meat I need. It's all about design choices. I don't lose anything by choosing to discard CO2 with all the heat from my base in it. Having already spent algae to breed a healthy school of pacu, I'm literally spending nothing on ranching. Regolith falls from the sky. 10 grooming errands every 3 days, enough dirt to feed 12 mealwood plants.

 

Look - you're right, you can make food from CO2 + get some petroleum. But it's not an adequate reason to avoid this build. You can do both, and, there might be better options for food anyway. This is the (edit) third way to delete industrial quantities of heat, this one doesn't require steam turbines or exploit bugs in the game. Unless, there's something we just haven't thought of yet, I think there are only 3 ways. Steam turbines, temp resets, and venting hot materials to space.

22 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I bet you can use a gas conflict, and the expansion rate of gasses, to get this up over 200kg. Would require some gas taming, but I bet it can (1) work and (2) be completely predictable. Haven't done it yet, but seems doable.

I have a strategy in mind, it will involve letting a small sample of gas into a narrow vent to space, then measuring peak pressure at some point midway. It'd look like this:

Basically, each day at sunrise, IF room pressure is above 20kg, it'd sample the gas in the room. Just let the door open for 2 seconds or so, and a small amount of gas will exit to space. The two sensors are for hysteresis, say, one is to detect room pressure above 100kg, the other is to detect room pressure below 50kg. For each of the two, pick a condition that sets a latch, and reset both latches just as it's time to run the day's sample.

So because it's such a narrow passage the pulse of gas will create a pressure gradient, and by measuring pressure near the end of the passage I'll be looking for much lower pressures.

For now I just flick a switch by hand every once in a while that switches to CO2 mode. But if I forget to flick it back, I wind up either leaking a bunch of heat into my power plant, OR my aquatuners will shut down on their temperature shutoff automation.

[0xFADE]

Oxygen is something I’ll be willing to heat up and throw away before co2

[Chthonicone]

21 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Oxygen is something I’ll be willing to heat up and throw away before co2

What if you are feeding 48 slicksters in a 20kg pressurized box, and still have extra CO2 that is flooding certain areas? I'm throwing away my excess as I'm not willing to get that many more ranchers.

Plus, I'm running 15 compost heaps to make dirt, and they're barely keeping up from all the rotten meat.

I think the worst part was, I tamed a minor volcano to provide extra power so I didn't produce as much CO2, and the moment I was done, it erupted once and went dormant for 50 cycles... It wasn't even enough heat to start it.

[0xFADE]

Sounds like you are producing much more co2 than I am.  I’ve got around half as many.  I don’t think I’d ranch much more than that. 

Still. I’d use the co2 to turn water in to polluted water next. 

[avc15]

At thermium temps you can pump water into an oil well, use the extracted oil as your exhaust material. It flashes straight to sour gas, vent overboard.

More total heat capacity than the equivalent amount of water, and water is several times more than the equivalent oxygen.

[Archetype]

Are you trying too hard? Making machines that are way bigger than anybody would realisticaly need?

You only need one miniSPOM per 5 dupes (more if they have breathing buffs). CO2 is a non-issue since you can always just have a sieve-skimmer on an isolated pipe loop and spend a tiny bit of power on the system.

Then again. It's not a crime since it is just a game. It seems more trouble than it's worth since you have to build a pipe all the way up which you later have to build bridges over and complicate things unnecessarily. There is a way to deal with almost any gase onsite though. Sour gas is my personal bugbear since you have to cool it so much for it to be useful too, but then again if you have sour gas then something already went very wrong somewhere.

[Angpaur]

On 25.09.2019 at 5:43 PM, fragtzack said:

 So instead of just venting straight to space, routing the C02 through spaces that could use some extra cooling and the the C02 pipes has collected enough heat to be about 60C at venting.

As I have 4 pipes venting to space, 3 of the pipes with a constant steam of 1K packets this appears to be a huge amount of heat being deleted

So you have there like 100kDTU/s of heat deletion. A single steam turbine provides 8 times more heat deletion. 

So for sure it is not the "highest rate of heat deletion", but I agree that it is easy