Big thanks to devs for addressing heat deletion

[pharmswede]

As the title says, a big thanks to the devs for addressing heat deletion! It was the one thing holding me back from total embrace of this game, which otherwise had such a delightful sensibility into plausible-if-not-real physics. It went unmentioned in spite of the constant discussion of it, I really believed it would remain intended gameplay.

And I even love the execution of the fix. It is quite easy for my brain to justify that heat will go up to a minimum as a result of a process or remain at its current level if higher, and it creates challenging heat management for gameplay purposes.

So, just want to put out appreciation of, from my perspective, nailing it!

[Nightinggale]

Next step would be fixing the forum. The removal of the water sieve cooling has resulted in a heated discussion with a new post every 2.1 minute for the last 4 hours.

[Lurve]

2 minutes ago, Nightinggale said:

Next step would be fixing the forum. The removal of the water sieve cooling has resulted in a heated discussion with a new post every 2.1 minute for the last 4 hours.

That's intentional.  They just got the turbine hooked up to the forum and are trying to give it a test run before full release.

[pacovf]

The water sieve's fixed temperature output has always been the most controversial topic in this forum. Things will cool down (ha!) in due time.

[Yunru]

2 minutes ago, pacovf said:

The water sieve's fixed temperature output has always been the most controversial topic in this forum. Things will cool down (ha!) in due time.

There'll always be a minimum level of heat for it ( ), it's human nature.

[Gurgel]

13 minutes ago, pharmswede said:

As the title says, a big thanks to the devs for addressing heat deletion! It was the one thing holding me back from total embrace of this game, which otherwise had such a delightful sensibility into plausible-if-not-real physics. It went unmentioned in spite of the constant discussion of it, I really believed it would remain intended gameplay.

And I even love the execution of the fix. It is quite easy for my brain to justify that heat will go up to a minimum as a result of a process or remain at its current level if higher, and it creates challenging heat management for gameplay purposes.

So, just want to put out appreciation of, from my perspective, nailing it!

Do I need to make a posting "The Devs have really messed up head deletion now!"? I think I will. 

[Nightinggale]

1 minute ago, Gurgel said:

Do I need to make a posting "The Devs have really messed up head deletion now!"? I think I will. 

Is that why the monument had an invisible head a few days ago? The devs are into "head deletion"

[Grey0ne]

I agree with the OP.

In my case I entirely stopped playing when I found out about the heat deletion, it felt so wrong.

But I also understand that other ppl dont like this change. It is just not possible to make it right for everyone.

[des06des]

25 minutes ago, pharmswede said:

As the title says, a big thanks to the devs for addressing heat deletion! It was the one thing holding me back from total embrace of this game, which otherwise had such a delightful sensibility into plausible-if-not-real physics. It went unmentioned in spite of the constant discussion of it, I really believed it would remain intended gameplay.

And I even love the execution of the fix. It is quite easy for my brain to justify that heat will go up to a minimum as a result of a process or remain at its current level if higher, and it creates challenging heat management for gameplay purposes.

So, just want to put out appreciation of, from my perspective, nailing it!

+1

[EnderCN]

Here here.  It felt really wrong that all you needed was a steam vent and an electrolyzer and not only were you set on oxygen for a long time, you also had a perfectly cooled base.  Now people will actually have to think about heat instead of just ignoring it completely.  Maybe I'll even insulate my base which I've never had to do in the past.

[axxionx12]

19 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Do I need to make a posting "The Devs have really messed up head deletion now!"? I think I will. 

That'll be what? Your third or fourth thread to complain in? I seem to have been right about the vocal minority comment earlier.

 

Cheers for a necessary change! I've enjoyed designing new heat management systems on Aridio without the sieve!

[Nightinggale]

I'm sorry for hijacking this thread with jokes, but to be honest it was really good to see the forum come back together to make jokes and have fun after what just happened.

I do agree with OP and have always wanted to get rid of the fixed temperature outputs. The big issue is the fixed temperature for heating up water and what to do about general temperature management. To say there is something to look into isn't the same as saying the first step is wrong. It just means the task isn't done yet.

Also thanks for improving the ElementConverter to use the temperature for all inputs.

[JoeW]

For what it's worth - I generally try not to hide or merge posts unless it's really super necessary. I feel it's better to let people say what they have to say rather than let them feel like they have no way make themselves be heard. 

That being said - I would like others to also exercise the same restraint and let people voice their opinions without stomping them down when you disagree. 

Even when we disagree with another players conclusions, we can still figure out ways to address those concerns, so it's important that we see things from different perspectives. 

[harmonium]

I Don't like the temperature manage in oni, all the time i have hard time keep at the same time good temp for the plant, and good temp for the duplicant.

[Maxposting]

13 minutes ago, harmonium said:

I Don't like the temperature manage in oni, all the time i have hard time keep at the same time good temp for the plant, and good temp for the duplicant.

I think dupes can survive up to 0-60 celsius just fine, like a normal human does 

[enragedcamel]

Removing the heat deletion from the water sieve is fine, but they also need to remove the heat addition.

[Kerd]

2 minutes ago, enragedcamel said:

Removing the heat deletion from the water sieve is fine, but they also need to remove the heat addition.

I'd like a middle point, where a sieve adds in 10 to 20 degrees over the input while producing it's own heat.

[JonnyMonroe]

1 hour ago, Lurve said:

That's intentional.  They just got the turbine hooked up to the forum and are trying to give it a test run before full release.

It's fine. I'm building an aquatuner on the subreddit and we're gonna dump the heat over there until the discord finishes it's steam turbine.

[enragedcamel]

1 minute ago, Kerd said:

I'd like a middle point, where a sieve adds in 10 to 20 degrees over the input while producing it's own heat.

I mean if it needs to add heat, it should add it in a way that is DTU-based, rather than as static output.

[EnderCN]

15 minutes ago, enragedcamel said:

I mean if it needs to add heat, it should add it in a way that is DTU-based, rather than as static output.

From a pure balance standpoint it has to add heat or the game just becomes way too easy.  But I do agree some sort of scaling add is better than the set minimum.  This is sort of the lazy path to fixing it.

[enragedcamel]

1 minute ago, EnderCN said:

From a pure balance standpoint it has to add heat or the game just becomes way too easy.  But I do agree some sort of scaling add is better than the set minimum.  This is sort of the lazy path to fixing it.

I mean it can add heat, I just don't see why it doesn't add heat as DTUs like the metal refinery does. Essentially, the temperature of the output liquid should be dependent on the temperature of the input.

[CannedSmeef]

I strongly disagree with you here.  Yes it's good to address deleting heat but forcing a minimum is ridiculous, both in logic and in gameplay.  If I put near freezing polluted water in a sieve, it's not going to come out at 40 C, it's going to come out at base heat + friction from sifting.  Apparently we're not supposed refine cold dirty water, because apparently a demon is setting the sand in my sifter on fire.  I don't think that's even physically possible in a machine like that, how much friction is going on in there?  And as I said, gameplay wise this is not good either.  Why are you punishing me for refining cold polluted water?  A bunch of artificial heat is being added to ice cold water, meaning that an absurd amount of heat is being added to the game.  It's the opposite of heat deletion, it's massive heat addition.  I'm fine with the heat of the water being a 1:1 output, but don't force a minimum, please.

My wish/suggestion: Just add like +5 C to the liquid output.  Please.

[EnderCN]

10 minutes ago, CannedSmeef said:

Why are you punishing me for refining cold polluted water?

It is simply an issue of balance.  On a normal map there is so much potential cold pO2 on the map, especially if you melt an ice biome cooling other things.  If all it did was add 5 C you would have all of your cooling needs covered deep into the game without even building advanced setups.

[Kerd]

41 minutes ago, enragedcamel said:

I mean if it needs to add heat, it should add it in a way that is DTU-based, rather than as static output.

I think that just makes it more complicated and actually less rewarding when used right.  Make it like the aquatuner, but have it increase the temp isntead.  The aquatuner drops the liquid by 12 degrees no matter what you pump into it and generates heat as a result.  It's easy to learn to use, but when you learn to use it better (by using a higher heat capacity liquid) you get better results.

[Hedning]

One way or another we are going to break the laws of physics and delete the heat. If not through the sieve then through the steam engine or using worts. Since heat is generated it has to be deleted or our colonies would cook. Everyone has to do it. Nothing has really changed in regards to how realistic the game is. Btw when machines delete mass that deletes orders of magnitude more energy than when they delete thermal energy, and I doubt eg dupes will ever return the same mass they consume.