Sasuga Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Ok, the title is a little off, because honestly, I do like it for now. And, I think it'll be fun to have this feature stick around a while in beta. However, I do not recommend the plan of keeping it for the final release. It makes the game too easy, IMO. I find it fun in beta, because it allows me to and others to play around with things that they might not normally be able to. (I've got my first room of slicksters right now, thanks to the printer.) However, I feel it eliminates the need to explore and expand, because I don't need to go deep to get those slicksters, don't need to deal with the heat, lack of oxygen, etc. So, I hope Klei is just letting us have a little fun in beta, and not planning on keeping the feature for release. Thanks everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Pro-Tip: If you dont like an optional feature, dont use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuga Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, SharraShimada said: Pro-Tip: If you dont like an optional feature, dont use it. You completely misunderstood my post. Pro-Tip: Read the entire post before commenting. https://www.npr.org/2014/04/01/297690717/why-doesnt-america-read-anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfons100 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 It should be possible to toggle it when making a new world, so you can have some bragging rights if you don't play with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 The printer offers random resources in limited quantities. It might be a good thing for new players. I`m not against an option to diable it for harder difficulties though. As for critters it`s pretty nice to have a possibility to get a critter that died off. Getting stuff like slicksters early is more of a problem than an advantage. Early slicksters will poop oil into your water reserves or on the ground, will be problematic to move around and after one generation they will likely change into longhair morphs which is fine but early on extra decor for the cost of oxygen isn`t really that good of a deal. Not to mention you can`t really use the oil until later in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuga Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Sasza22 said: The printer offers random resources in limited quantities. It might be a good thing for new players. I`m not against an option to diable it for harder difficulties though. As for critters it`s pretty nice to have a possibility to get a critter that died off. Getting stuff like slicksters early is more of a problem than an advantage. Early slicksters will poop oil into your water reserves or on the ground, will be problematic to move around and after one generation they will likely change into longhair morphs which is fine but early on extra decor for the cost of oxygen isn`t really that good of a deal. Not to mention you can`t really use the oil until later in the game. I'm pretty sure rocketry is for getting critters that you've lost, I haven't done it yet, am I wrong? I got early slicksters, and it's kinda fun, but at the same time I have no reason to dig down to oil then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharraShimada Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Sasuga said: You completely misunderstood my post. Pro-Tip: Read the entire post before commenting. https://www.npr.org/2014/04/01/297690717/why-doesnt-america-read-anymore Nope, i stick to it. Its optional. Use it or use it not. And please dont decide, what other players want, or want not. And dont decide if something makes it "too easy". Thay may be the case for you, for others its just the bit of flavour they like. For your link, i never was in america. Please keep in mind, the US are NOT the world, even if you like to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, Sasuga said: I'm pretty sure rocketry is for getting critters that you've lost, I haven't done it yet, am I wrong? As for now you can only get stone/smooth hatches, pacu and gassy moos from space. So for now you are wrong. We were hoping for other critters to be available from space though, maybe they will be added there. 24 minutes ago, Sasuga said: I got early slicksters, and it's kinda fun, but at the same time I have no reason to dig down to oil then. Eventually you`ll need more oil than slickster can provide. It`s like saying and leaky oil fissure makes you not need to go to the oil biome. Also fossils from the oil biome will let you produce steel at a reasonable rate not to mention diamond being useful in many applications. You still need to keep the slicksters above 60oC or they will lay longhair morph eggs and those don`t produce any oil. It`s easier to keep high temperature in the oil biome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuga Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 Maybe we could get DNA from creatures and hack the printer, and use genetic ooze, to print lost animals? Very, very, very high tech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolgfred Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I did use the free ressource in my last playthrough constantly, and I noticed a big loss in creativity of myself. First I was gifted 2k copper, so I built lavatories for everyone instead of the necessary ones. Then I got diverse flower pot plants, leading to give every room 2 plants instead of one. Two weezeworts allowed me to cool sieve water down to 29°C and use it for plant watering. 3 Slickster eggs, founded my slickster farm, leading to a sustainable petroleum and pwater source 3 dreckos started my meat farming, making me more indepentant from farming... In the end I noticed I never left the starter biome, as I had everything needed delivered by the printer. At current point I think the item printing is way too strong and kind of spoilering, as you able to get items you haven't discovered yet and giving resplenishing to finite ressources. Personally I'd wish this to be removed again, but realisticly I'd say nerving it, would be much needed. Ideas: 1. Restrict the printer only to things you have discovered/owned already. 2. Increase cooldown compared to duplicants. I never used the 'refject all' Button, because it's better to pick 500kg sand instead of nothing. Having something like 5 days cooldown after some lumps of coal, 7 days for food/plants, 9 for eggs/animals, would prevent picking things you do not absolutely need. 3. To make rejecting more relevant, the item quality/quantity could be increased everytime you reject something inste4ad of taking anything you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Bolgfred said: I did use the free ressource in my last playthrough constantly, and I noticed a big loss in creativity of myself. First I was gifted 2k copper, so I built lavatories for everyone instead of the necessary ones. Then I got diverse flower pot plants, leading to give every room 2 plants instead of one. Two weezeworts allowed me to cool sieve water down to 29°C and use it for plant watering. 3 Slickster eggs, founded my slickster farm, leading to a sustainable petroleum and pwater source 3 dreckos started my meat farming, making me more indepentant from farming... In the end I noticed I never left the starter biome, as I had everything needed delivered by the printer. At current point I think the item printing is way too strong and kind of spoilering, as you able to get items you haven't discovered yet and giving resplenishing to finite ressources. Personally I'd wish this to be removed again, but realisticly I'd say nerving it, would be much needed. Well none of that matched my experience. Of course, I've never known a lack of copper to be the reason to not build lavatories. The only matching point I had was wheezeworts, and I only got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjw Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I agree. When I first digged down it was super exciting. When I first discovered slicksters it was cool to dig into dangerous terrain and catch one to finde out what it does. One dupe nearly died on that mission. I can imaginge getting one by the printer pod is a spoiler. Let the players discover them. I find that far more exciting. On 3.2.2019 at 7:01 PM, SharraShimada said: Pro-Tip: If you dont like an optional feature, dont use it. This argument makes no sense to me. A new player can't opt out on new features. A new player dosn't know that it spoils the experience in advance. I am not a new player, too. But I can imagine that I would hated it afterwards. Because many exciting ONI moments I had wouldn't have been that cool if I was gifted the stuff in advance and without effort for free. I like that it prevents animals from going totally extinct because since the first time I lost all shine bugs I was scared of that. But other than that, I don't like it. We have rockets to get more ressources in the late game... On 3.2.2019 at 7:01 PM, SharraShimada said: Pro-Tip: If you dont like an optional feature, dont use it. Sorry, that I want to answer to this quote again. I really have to say this. Feedback to a update should't be considered to what one indiviual likes or dislikes. It should be feedback if a feature makes a game overall a better experience for all players especially for new players. That's another reason why I find this argument just wrong. And the "Pro-Tip" remark is just insulting to other peoples opinions (on intention)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crbd115 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/3/2019 at 11:58 AM, Sasuga said: Ok, the title is a little off, because honestly, I do like it for now. And, I think it'll be fun to have this feature stick around a while in beta. However, I do not recommend the plan of keeping it for the final release. It makes the game too easy, IMO. I find it fun in beta, because it allows me to and others to play around with things that they might not normally be able to. (I've got my first room of slicksters right now, thanks to the printer.) However, I feel it eliminates the need to explore and expand, because I don't need to go deep to get those slicksters, don't need to deal with the heat, lack of oxygen, etc. So, I hope Klei is just letting us have a little fun in beta, and not planning on keeping the feature for release. Thanks everyone! All in all I agree and disagree. I like the feature, I like that it makes printing still something to use even when you don't want more duplicants, or if the duplicants are bad you get a consolation prize. I do think it needs some balancing but it's only half way through the development for this upgrade. I don't really mind the slicksters as either you get one that's hatched that you can't move because you have no plastic and dies off quickly or the 3 eggs you make a room for that more than likely will just breed out long haired slicksters and now you have to kill the long hairs. I do think that you should only get wheeze worts after you have discovered them but like I said I'm sure they will balance it further. I do like that I get some wheeze worts as I have had some worlds where I barely get any and some where my ice biomes are incredibly far away and I need to cool my electrolyzers. On 2/3/2019 at 12:01 PM, SharraShimada said: Pro-Tip: If you dont like an optional feature, dont use it. Last I checked this is a forum for personal opinions to be discussed. People are here to express ideas, agree or disagree, and build on them. Don't be a child. On 2/3/2019 at 4:19 PM, Sasza22 said: Eventually you`ll need more oil than slickster can provide. It`s like saying and leaky oil fissure makes you not need to go to the oil biome. Also fossils from the oil biome will let you produce steel at a reasonable rate not to mention diamond being useful in many applications. You still need to keep the slicksters above 60oC or they will lay longhair morph eggs and those don`t produce any oil. It`s easier to keep high temperature in the oil biome. I completely agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuga Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Here's what I'd like to see: Exploring other planets/rocks allows us to find artifacts. These artifacts can be researched to give special research to create new technologies, that can not be created with research otherwise. (Rocketry and exploring with rockets required to get it!) One piece of technology that can either be found or unlocked is a machine that you cay put things made of Genetic Ooze into, and it extracts the genetic ooze from them. Another piece of machinery would be a new new printer (or possibly something to hack the original printer) and then genetic ooze can be added to the new mini printer (or the original printer) as a material resource. Another device could be a device that allows dupes to scan living objects from the same range they can mine, scientists or the science skills perhaps might be necessary to do it. This scan gives a "DNA Sample" or "Genetic Sample" or something. That DNA/Genetic sample can be fed into a computer station that's wired into the mini printer, (or the connected to the big printer to 'hack it'). With that DNA sampled added into the device, the genetic ooze added into another device that pumps it into the mini printer (or original printer) and when all this comes together, plus perhaps the science and medical skills being maxed out to use this stuff or at least some of this stuff... ...The dupes would have to supply a continuous amount of power, failing power would cause the print/experiment to fail. Any power drops causes complete failure that will give ruined genetic ooze that could maybe be turned into dirt by super heating it or something... All these things come together, and ZAAP! Frankenstein's monster! You get a new shine bug, a new hatch, whatever, based on the DNA sample given to it. I don't like it when a map has a single shine bug and it dies before I can even dig to it, but it would be nice if I could work towards replacing it so I can create a 'world' with homeostasis. Becoming master of the universe late-game would be a goal to strive for. Survival < Homeostasis < Master of the Universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 20 hours ago, Sasuga said: I don't like it when a map has a single shine bug and it dies before I can even dig to it, but it would be nice if I could work towards replacing it so I can create a 'world' with homeostasis. And how do you replace it with your system? It died before you got a Sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaloneyOs Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I've questioned the balance of care packages as well when I first found out what you can get from rocketry. Thing is though, the concept of difficulty is really subjective when it comes to builder games, and it's hard to say whether or not this feature will feel too powerful by release. From my experience the most unbalancing care packages in Mk.II were: 1. 8 Pacus. Printing critters/eggs in general can be trivializing but Pacus are the least costly in the long run. What I like about this, though, is that it offsets the gradual population decline in wild Pacus due to gulp fish morphs in non-supporting environments. 2. Wheezewort seed 3. 150 kg of lime Most of the other packages aren't as impactful except the food ones in emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasuga Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 4/27/2019 at 10:04 AM, Yunru said: And how do you replace it with your system? It died before you got a Sample. Because a sample could be found in a computer on the map, or taken from another planet/rock/asteroid/(Whatever they are) with rockets. On 4/27/2019 at 8:59 PM, BaloneyOs said: I've questioned the balance of care packages as well when I first found out what you can get from rocketry. Thing is though, the concept of difficulty is really subjective when it comes to builder games, and it's hard to say whether or not this feature will feel too powerful by release. From my experience the most unbalancing care packages in Mk.II were: 1. 8 Pacus. Printing critters/eggs in general can be trivializing but Pacus are the least costly in the long run. What I like about this, though, is that it offsets the gradual population decline in wild Pacus due to gulp fish morphs in non-supporting environments. 2. Wheezewort seed 3. 150 kg of lime Most of the other packages aren't as impactful except the food ones in emergencies. I like that Klei is responsive to the problems of things going extinct and have decided to address this. However, the game needs to also be challenging to be fun. And indeed, getting 8 Pacus, or however many slicksters is just broken. Not feeling like I have to worry about maintaining a fragile homeostasis on my way to a more-true homeostasis makes the game less interesting to me. Heck, leave this feature as a non-default-checked option on release. It's a fine feature to have some fun with, new players can use it to help them stay alive and figure the game out, experienced players can use it to relax a bit and maybe try some whacky things. But, I really don't like it as a default-on feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 7/2/2019 at 9:49 AM, Bolgfred said: 1. Restrict the printer only to things you have discovered/owned already. im pretty sure this one is already a thing, but only to materials: i have never got plastic before getting some myself, i have never gotten glass before getting some myself, and i have never got lime before getting some myself. but i do get seeds and animals without having obtained some myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 also, this is what happens if you accept stuff every time, even if you do not need it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Link_I Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Lets introduce: *PRINTER DIFFICULTY* Where you have Easy:the way it is now Normal:Dupes , resources but NO CRITTERS AND PLANTS hard:only dupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, I_Link_I said: Lets introduce: *PRINTER DIFFICULTY* Where you have Easy:the way it is now Normal:Dupes , resources but NO CRITTERS AND PLANTS hard:only dupes Why not just combine it into a game difficulty. Currently we got "survival" and "no sweat". There should be a "challenge" difficulty that`s harder and the printer might be only able to make dupes. Also with the possiblility to customize it in the options like we can do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwido Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 hours ago, I_Link_I said: Lets introduce: *PRINTER DIFFICULTY* Where you have Easy:the way it is now Normal:Dupes , resources but NO CRITTERS AND PLANTS hard:only dupes 3 hours ago, Sasza22 said: Why not just combine it into a game difficulty. Currently we got "survival" and "no sweat". There should be a "challenge" difficulty that`s harder and the printer might be only able to make dupes. Also with the possiblility to customize it in the options like we can do now. In my opinion, the default setting of the printer should show only 1 random choice, with same probability than the current printer. Maybe just add the same condition to show critters and plants than for other materials. For critters, we need to have wrangle/lure/trapped at least once each species to enable it in the printer. For plants, we need to have access to at least one seed. The current setting should only be for "no sweat" mode. On the over side, and "hardcore" mode should use the one choice setting I suggest, but without any choice (and maybe a longer time to charge). The printer print automatically when it's charged. And player will have to decide whether he turns the printer off or leave it print without any control. Whatever the suggestions, we should just keep in mind that "Oxygen not included" is not really a survavil game, but more a base construction game. The goal of the game is to set up a fully functionnal base where the player should have to interact anymore to say duplicants what to do. So the printing pod set up is just a way to custom the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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