We need a air-conditioner

[babba]

Pump & Guacamole costs extra, it's not included in the standard package. Happy ONI everyone

10 minutes ago, harmonium said:

Yep i see, but you forget the pump + oxygen, but i see i will try later. Thanks

[harmonium]

5 minutes ago, babba said:

Pump & Guacamole costs extra, it's not included in the standard package. Happy ONI everyone

 

[Craigjw]

During a heat wave, I came across a bakery that was obviously too hot as they had an air conditioner in the shop foyer, the only downside was that while they did have air conditioning, the hot air output was directed straight back into the shop.....

[harmonium]

2 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

During a heat wave, I came across a bakery that was obviously too hot as they had an air conditioner in the shop foyer, the only downside was that while they did have air conditioning, the hot air output was directed straight back into the shop.....

They are not very smart then

[babba]

7 hours ago, Craigjw said:

During a heat wave, I came across a bakery that was obviously too hot as they had an air conditioner in the shop foyer, the only downside was that while they did have air conditioning, the hot air output was directed straight back into the shop.....

Yeah, but it will be cool having the face 10 cm away from the aircon gnhihihih.

If they make their bread inside the aircon, it will be cool...But not if they also put the oven inside of the aircon.

Its like putting a fridge into a fridge into a fridge = Triple Cooling ³ . What we know is that energy consumption will be high!

If I get the offer to ride in an aircon car, I always open the windows and make sure I have two fridges with me, for both of my feet. It gets too hot otherwise! The only reason why the mafia puts peoples feet into concrete is...They care of people and want to keep them cool for their well being.

Visual aid of the: Fridge in fridge in fridge theory

Proof of Concept = Transparent feet fridges ( Dual cooling)

Car ride with two transparent fridges for the feet during commuter travel.

[Rainbowdesign]

It is very similar tor my stirling generator in reverse: https://github.com/javisar/ONI-Modloader/issues/43

Only that its supposed to work with water and air on both sides.

It might however not be so easy to implement i could not do it.

[harmonium]

But realy i like rimworld for the easy temperature manage. You have a block "air conditioner" one way is hot, the other is cold, you can warm the place with it, cool a place with it, you can do everything easy.

You put 2 - 5 radiator and some air conditioner and you are good, temperature all the time at 21c.

[impyre]

Spoiler

This is a standard central HVAC system. The diagram lists it as a secondary because instead of a heat-pump (thermo-regulator/aquatuner) it uses hot and cool water as a backup to the main system. I used this diagram though because the rest of the distribution system is all identical regardless of how you heat or cool the air. Basically there are three parts:

1. Air Handler (moves by creating pressure difference)
2. Heat exchanger (heats or cools air depending on need)
3. distribution system (moves air where it needs to go, and brings it back to keep it circulating)

No, you don't have all these parts if you use a window-mounted AC unit, but a previous poster already showed what that would look like in ONI... just a thermoregulator and a wall.

For a solid, reliable, and scalable system... you need centralized hvac. Centralized means gather the air up into one place, make sure it's the right temperature, and re-distribute it back throughout the building/base/complex. This is standard to most decent size homes, retail buildings, office buildings, etc... mostly because it's the most sensible way to set up heating and cooling... though I suppose one could just build radiators everywhere. (at least it works as a temporary thing)

Also, dealing with co2 becomes a concern... and even real systems have a way of bringing in some fresh air and getting rid of exhaust gasses. The big challenge with these systems is that you have a design problem to deal with, you have to make a decision:

A) put thermometers everywhere to know when to turn the system on

or 

B) just keep it pumping always for circulation and only heat or cool as needed

most people just go with option B since the fan uses relatively little power compared to the heating/cooling

[enragedcamel]

Rimworld's air conditioner is good. It acts as a wall tile, sucks in air from one side, cools it and spits it out the other side.

In contrast, with ONI you need a Thermo Regulator, which is set up differently and requires a lot of infrastructure (since you also need to worry about cooling the regulator itself eventually).

Not the same thing.

[Xheotris]

This game is *about* HVAC. Rimworld isn't. Of course ONI air conditioning is a bit more involved. Rimworld also has a planet that weighs more than a fistful of kilotons for thermal mass, where ONI doesn't.

[Craigjw]

18 minutes ago, Xheotris said:

This game is *about* HVAC. Rimworld isn't. Of course ONI air conditioning is a bit more involved. Rimworld also has a planet that weighs more than a fistful of kilotons for thermal mass, where ONI doesn't.

I thought this game was about finding new and inventive ways to kill your dupes???

[pacovf]

While the thermoregulator is good, I think the game could do with a simpler way to handle early game heat problems. The Rimworld solution doesn’t sound too bad, just add a (powered) tile that heats one side and warms the other one. This would help in the early game with food production, pushing the construction of more involved cooling systems later in the game.

 

I am of the opinion that right now cooling systems are too complicated for how early in the game you start needing them. Wheezeworts are easy, but you need to find them first, and a new player won’t even know they exist. Compare with other needs like oxygen or food, that early game just require plopping down a couple of buildings, with the more complicated solutions only coming later on.

[Christophlette]

25 minutes ago, pacovf said:

While the thermoregulator is good, I think the game could do with a simpler way to handle early game heat problems. The Rimworld solution doesn’t sound too bad, just add a (powered) tile that heats one side and warms the other one. This would help in the early game with food production, pushing the construction of more involved cooling systems later in the game.

I think the wheezeworts are made for that. Just put a few around your farm and tadaaaa!  

[PhailRaptor]

1 hour ago, Christophlette said:

I think the wheezeworts are made for that. Just put a few around your farm and tadaaaa!  

Except for the part where you need to have some first.  Since they pushed the Ice Biomes farther away, they can in fact be very far away.  Like, almost a full screen away from the starter biome, behind at least one (and sometimes more) veins of Abyssalite and who knows how much Slimelung or Chlorine.  Reaching that far is not "early game".  That's "mid game".

Now, of a small number of the Buried Objects near the edge of the Starter Biome were to be Wheezewort Seeds, instead of Muckroot or Bristle/Meal/Briar Seeds, you might have a case for this being an early game solution.  But that's not how things are.

[Christophlette]

1 minute ago, PhailRaptor said:

Except for the part where you need to have some first.  Since they pushed the Ice Biomes farther away, they can in fact be very far away.  Like, almost a full screen away from the starter biome, behind at least one (and sometimes more) veins of Abyssalite and who knows how much Slimelung or Chlorine.  Reaching that far is not "early game".  That's "mid game".

Maybe it has to do with the way we play. I tend to explore a lot because I like to discover the biomes around me.

I think you surestimate chlorine. It sinks at the bottom. Just dig a little pit in the bottom of your base and when you have a few wheezeworts, use them to liquify the chlorine and put it aside. Hydrogen can be pumped to produce power if you do it right.

Slimelung though I agree with you it's another problem. When you play in normal or hard (10% immune system regen) you can do small incursions in the slime biome. You can then build a tunnel with tiles inside the slime biome and then put deodorizers to clean the PO2 and slimelung with time.

I usually find 10 or 15 wheezeworts before having problems with heat but again, we may not have the same pace to play the game. So we can encounter different situations.

[PhailRaptor]

2 minutes ago, Christophlette said:

I think you surestimate chlorine. It sinks at the bottom. Just dig a little pit in the bottom of your base and when you have a few wheezeworts, use them to liquify the chlorine and put it aside.

This doesn't work with my early base layout.  My first floor down below the Printer Pod is built from Farm Tiles that hold my early Mealwood.  Depending on the layout of the Starter Biome (where the water and algae are, mostly) the CO2 builds up onto that level for quite a while.  Chlorine floats on top of CO2, meaning this would choke off my Mealwood for a good long while if I were to attempt this.

Eventually my O2 production will simply overpower the CO2, forcing it down and ultimately deleting it slowly over the next ~100 cycles.  But there's an intermediate period where I'd have no food production.

[Craigjw]

Your strategy for gas management isn't very optimal.

I tend to build a farm at the top of the map early on to kick start my Bristle farm , this avoids co2 & chlorine.

To combat the co2 early on, I venture out to get some thimblereeds, I then make a small PW pit, with a seive.  I make a co2 pit and recycle the water to the seive, any overflow goes to the thimblereed.  The co2 filter doesn't create or destroy the water, 100g in, 100g out.   Any excess pw i obtain gets eaten by the thimblereed.  this also allows for proper toilets & sinks to be used, as the consumption rate of the thimblereed is rather a lot, 2 -3 thimbles will easily eat up 8 dupes using 4 toilets, sinks and showers.  The bonus, you get plenty of reeds for decor and exo-suits later on.

The co2 pit also allows for a coal generator.

Your chlorine pit is intact, because you are dealing with your co2 rather than avoiding it.

[harmonium]

4 hours ago, pacovf said:

While the thermoregulator is good, I think the game could do with a simpler way to handle early game heat problems. The Rimworld solution doesn’t sound too bad, just add a (powered) tile that heats one side and warms the other one. This would help in the early game with food production, pushing the construction of more involved cooling systems later in the game.

 

I am of the opinion that right now cooling systems are too complicated for how early in the game you start needing them. Wheezeworts are easy, but you need to find them first, and a new player won’t even know they exist. Compare with other needs like oxygen or food, that early game only enquire plopping down a couple of buildings, with the more complicated solutions only coming later on.

The best way for me is to pipe all my base around with radiant pipe… that work, but this is ugly and little boring to do. The game could offer Something more easy, temperature is a big problem in this game.

[ONIfreak]

13 hours ago, harmonium said:

that Don't work good at all. You need take oxygen from somewhere, cool it down, send it back, and you need to place it somewhere far from your base, or that will be useless.

I think i know what you mean.

So from my point of view - no we do not have something which will be working just on one physical state of some material (only gas or only liquid). Therefore there is no such machine which will just take gas and use power and gas to cool it down. so will have input of gas and two outputs - one for cold and one for warm

however,

Thermo regulator works quite similar - takes gas, using power cool it down and give heat to surrounding (whatever it is gas, or liquid, so in a sense it is very not efficient air condition (not efficient if you use just one physical state).

You can however build Air condition from given materials and blueprints. using wheezworts, or thermo regulator and combine it with liquid - therefore it will work quite efficient.

The easiest i found is pump air through 4 wheezworts using radiant pipes (put wheezworts in hydrogen room and wait until temp will be around -30C )- it will take. This should give you steady cold air outcome.

 

[Boxman_90]

13 minutes ago, harmonium said:

The best way for me is to pipe all my base around with radiant pipe… that work, but this is ugly and little boring to do. The game could offer Something more easy, temperature is a big problem in this game.

Just because something is hard to manage doesn't mean it should be made easier. Dealing with heat is difficult, but that's exactly the charm of this game.

If you were to be able to find a solution for everything within 20 minutes of playing, then how much challenge and fun remains?

[Xuhybrid]

5 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Except for the part where you need to have some first.  Since they pushed the Ice Biomes farther away, they can in fact be very far away.  Like, almost a full screen away from the starter biome, behind at least one (and sometimes more) veins of Abyssalite and who knows how much Slimelung or Chlorine.  Reaching that far is not "early game".  That's "mid game".

Now, of a small number of the Buried Objects near the edge of the Starter Biome were to be Wheezewort Seeds, instead of Muckroot or Bristle/Meal/Briar Seeds, you might have a case for this being an early game solution.  But that's not how things are.

Oh no, a full screen away. The horror!..

[Xheotris]

5 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

This doesn't work with my early base layout.  My first floor down below the Printer Pod is built from Farm Tiles that hold my early Mealwood.  Depending on the layout of the Starter Biome (where the water and algae are, mostly) the CO2 builds up onto that level for quite a while.  Chlorine floats on top of CO2, meaning this would choke off my Mealwood for a good long while if I were to attempt this.

Eventually my O2 production will simply overpower the CO2, forcing it down and ultimately deleting it slowly over the next ~100 cycles.  But there's an intermediate period where I'd have no food production.

So, you have a bad layout. That isn't the game's problem. That's you being inflexible and not adapting.

[leoroy]

4 hours ago, harmonium said:

The best way for me is to pipe all my base around with radiant pipe… that work, but this is ugly and little boring to do. The game could offer Something more easy, temperature is a big problem in this game.

I don't really see why you need to pipe all your base with radiant pipes... aren't you able to just cool your oxygen first?

[harmonium]

Yeah better say other player are bad, than be creative and add good thing to the game.

1 minute ago, leoroy said:

I don't really see why you need to pipe all your base with radiant pipes... aren't you able to just cool your oxygen first?

Sure i cool it with magic right ? You need to manage the oxygen, a room for stock it, then pump it, send it to the regulator, then send it back in every room of the base. And you need to put the regulator not in your base, and you need insulator wall… so much thing to do, pipe are better, less work, less problem.

[leoroy]

3 minutes ago, harmonium said:

Yeah better say other player are bad, than be creative and add good thing to the game.

Well... you complained because it is ugly to put radiant pipes or liquid pipes all over your base, while the easiest solution is to directly cool your oxygen :/

 

Edit : this is I think the most simple cooling solution for you oxygen... no need for radiant pipes everywhere... and no room to stock oxygen either. Ok, not elaborated, but does the job pretty well.