Three OP things in Hamlet

[TheLastTriarius]

I have to admit that this DLC is much more challenging, and I like it.
It was, before i found some things, that made this DLC for me very easy.

So here are three OP things in Hamlet DLC, that every player gonna encounter:

Warbucks. The new character with new abilities. Looses sanity when eats not cooked on pot meal. Gains sanity in proportion to the amount of money in inventory. Starts with Ball Pein Hammer and Magnifying glass, and consumes it half price. So the only disadvantage is loosing sanity while eating simple food. In my experience, after crafting cooking pot (about day 3), you tottaly forget about the sanity problem! You dont have to collect flowers, you dont have to buy mushrooms or cook Vegetable Stinger, just keep your coins in your pocket, and your sanity is always 200.

I think this character requires more disadvantages and less sanity bonus from money in order to be balanced.

 

Berries. Idk, maybe berries for pigs like cocaine for humans, so they are ready to pay 4(!!!) coins for one single berry. Having a farm of berry bushes is not way of survival anymore. Now it is high profit business,. Just buy/steal some bushes, plant them on your base, and you are  a bigboss now. You dont even have to go outside of the town to survive. Its now drugdealer simulator. Interesting, that you can buy same berries in pig shop for only 1 coin. So you can make additional profit on resseling.

In my opinion, berries dont have to be selled at all. Reduce sell reward even to 1 coin, will not make a problem gone, because it is the only item, that you could produce unlimited without need to go outside of the town. Otherwise there is no real incentive to go for some hunt or for artifacts.

 

Swashy hat. Bandits hat, that allow you to make crime actions (killing, stealing, breaking) in pig town without any consiquences. 100% drop chance after killing a bandit. With first dead bandit, you gonna forget about pig guards. You can steal food from pig farms whenever you want. You can destroy whole town with Executive Hammer, and get a large bunch of resources without any problem.

This hat should drop about 20 times rarely and with much limited charge.

 

[Philsam]

2 hours ago, TheLastTriarius said:

I have to admit that this DLC is much more challenging, and I like it.
It was, before i found some things, that made this DLC for me very easy.

So here are three OP things in Hamlet DLC, that every player gonna encounter:

Warbucks. The new character with new abilities. Looses sanity when eats not cooked on pot meal. Gains sanity in proportion to the amount of money in inventory. Starts with Ball Pein Hammer and Magnifying glass, and consumes it half price. So the only disadvantage is loosing sanity while eating simple food. In my experience, after crafting cooking pot (about day 3), you tottaly forget about the sanity problem! You dont have to collect flowers, you dont have to buy mushrooms or cook Vegetable Stinger, just keep your coins in your pocket, and your sanity is always 200.

I think this character requires more disadvantages and less sanity bonus from money in order to be balanced.

 

I think that Warbucks is not OP at all, balanced if you want, it is more hungry than other players without changes of hungers. In addition to being hungry often, he loses mental health, which is horrible at the beginning of the game. He has only one advantage, and two disadvantages, and then? I find it boring and not fun to play, its advantage is like Maxwell, and its two disadvantages are also boring, it looks like a Wilson 2.0, I do not recommend it, just average

[Hx380]

Webber starts with a infinite bandit hat 

[metallichydra]

4 hours ago, TheLastTriarius said:

Berries.

because it is the only item, that you could produce unlimited without need to go outside of the town.

 

not true, you can also produce hedge clippings (use razor on hedges), silk, glands (silk and glands: only able to sell in second town or your own town, only webber), boards, rope.

[Roosev]

I do believe that Warbucks is almost balanced. He's almost like Maxwell 2.0.

But Maxwell spawns with an extremely powerful weapon and armour.

Warbucks doesn't.

Maxwell has the sanity advantage starting immediately.

Warbucks doesn't.

Warbucks has a much bigger sanity advantage, but only after the early-game at which point it doesn't really matter anyway. (since you have access to sanity clothing items and sanity foods.)

Both can go insane at will with their starting items. (though Maxwell slower than Warbucks)

I guess you could say the sanity boost is a bit too much, but then again, getting 200+ coins is not exactly the easiest thing in the world for most players.

However, I also do believe that 40+ sanity boost with 200 coins is a bit silly, but the high sanity boost from coins should stay there to a degree. Maybe half the sanity gain from all of the stages of the coins?

[metallichydra]

10 minutes ago, Roosev said:

I do believe that Warbucks is almost balanced. He's almost like Maxwell 2.0.

But Maxwell spawns with an extremely powerful weapon and armour.

Warbucks doesn't.

Maxwell has the sanity advantage starting immediately.

Warbucks doesn't.

Warbucks has a much bigger sanity advantage, but only after the early-game at which point it doesn't really matter anyway. (since you have access to sanity clothing items and sanity foods.)

Both can go insane at will with their starting items. (though Maxwell slower than Warbucks)

I guess you could say the sanity boost is a bit too much, but then again, getting 200+ coins is not exactly the easiest thing in the world for most players.

However, I also do believe that 40+ sanity boost with 200 coins is a bit silly, but the high sanity boost from coins should stay there to a degree. Maybe half the sanity gain from all of the stages of the coins?

Warbucks uses atleast 1inventory slot/space, Maxwell dont, but he has much less health

[Bacon and Eggs]

Comparing him to Maxwell, he trades an inventory space, endgame starting items, and the ability to make shadow clones (big tradeoff), for 75 max health and tool proficiency (negligible).

I think he's pretty balanced.

[Tumalu]

Actually, I think Warbucks is very not balanced. I liked the sound of the character, and then I saw the scaling chart for his sanity regen. He gains 12.5 regen a minute at 200 oincs; oh wait, I'm sorry, I meant 20 oincs. TWENTY. That's two tam o'shanters worth, by the way.

Warbucks only downside is his slightly smaller stomach. What, his sanity goes down from eating raw food? Keep 20 oincs in your inventory and it really just doesn't matter. I guess you can't eat 10 raw blooming tubers at once for healing your hp but... wait, what's that? You CAN, you don't go insane, and in a couple days your sanity will be maxed again? Gee whiz, you're right! 

"But you have to actually get 20 oincs!" Yeah, but... it's trivially easy to do this in the first few days of the game. Make a shears with some of the iron ore you find on the ground and you can probably get it the first time you see the pig town (granted, you need a science machine; but that's not really a problem)

Warbucks sanity regen seriously needs to be decreased. Then his disadvantage will actually matter and he'll become balanced. Right now he can negate his disadvantage in the first few days of the game and have Maxwell-tier sanity forever for practically no cost/effort. If you had to keep more coins for it, you'd also be more likely to think... ah, maybe I should spend some of these instead of hoarding them! 

Maxwell gets more regen, but 12.5 is really more than enough. Furthermore; I like Maxwell. But the thought of playing him in Hamlet terrifies me. His HP is not "just" 75. Hamlet, you see, has NO TOUCHSTONES. Ah, but you get magic water and it's easy to get beard hair for effigies! Sure, sure, it is. but these methods cost 30 max hp.

In other words, Maxwell has only FOURTY FIVE max hp if you want to have any revival method up. You could use a lifegiving amulet, but wearing that in a fight instead of stacking armor will DRASTICALLY increase the chance of dying, and trusting that you'll be able to swap to it in time if you're gonna die is a massive liability. Most characters have 120 post-effigy, nearly three times as much. In normal DS you have a few touchstones to count on for revivals while keeping your 75 hp, and the base game involves less fighting in general so it's easier to keep it that way... in Hamlet it is simply too common to lose 45 hp unless you doublestack armor for any dangerous situation. Like walking through the ruins because, hey, dart traps could doublehit you for instant death if you took one hit from an enemy while armored earlier.

tl;dr Warbucks gets too much sanity and Maxwell's hp is far more of a concern in Hamlet than base game, so Warbucks easily outranks the guy while effectively holding no disadvantages.

[metallichydra]

he is pretty useless in non-hamlet worlds  

i wish klei would begin making characters that can actually be played outside of their dlc's

[Charsis]

Warbucks haven't even played, but sounds boring to play, even though sanity not a big deal.

[Yokoblue]

Sanity boost is wayyy too strong in my opinion. I would think it would be better if it required more oinc... Like think about it, 20 oinc is 2 tam o shanter (literally the best sanity item that make sanity management a joke in most cases). Also: 20 oinc is 5 berry, or 20 clippings (you get around 30 if you wait a couple days).

I think they should reduce sanity gain by half and increase the "max sanity boost" to 50 or 40 (so that its 1 stack of normal oinc).

On topic berries: I think Hamlet has a lot less food items and a lot less food in general than regular don't starve (especially meat). I do believe that increase the value of berries drastically but id like a small nerf to 2oinc instead of 4.

 

[TheLastTriarius]

6 hours ago, Yokoblue said:

On topic berries: I think Hamlet has a lot less food items and a lot less food in general than regular don't starve (especially meat). I do believe that increase the value of berries drastically but id like a small nerf to 2oinc instead of 4.

 

When you find your inventory full. With need to choose beetwen few berries and relic. You know what to drop on a ground 

[KilliasK]

Great, we got a thread about making everything less fun.

[Ther.exe]

I think warbucks is a really interesting and fun character. I also think he's OP with no sanity problems ever. (except the first few times you use him.)

Berries do give you a lot of free money, but whether or not it's over powered depends on how useful that money is. Also there is supposed to be answers to problems people are suposed to find in Dont Starve. Berries are an answer to gaining "oincs". There is always gonna be something that makes money better than anything else. But hopefully it doesnt make everything else useless. So that's the question. 4 oincs might be too much. Not sure.

[metallichydra]

berries have already been nerfed from 6 to 4 oincs

[Kawasaki]

All warbucks needs is a nerf to the sanity gain i suppose. Like halved or something other than that i really started to respect and like the character my self.

Berries need to give 2 Oincs IMO.

The hat probably a 20% chance to drop or so would be good so you dont easily earn it and abuse it early gama. I personaly have never used it my self and i dont know why i havent.

[Rellimarual]

Four Oincs per berry is just right.

[orian34]

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

Four Oincs per berry is just right.

It's too much. 3 is right.

[Rellimarual]

No, four is.

[TheLastTriarius]

 Zero is. 

[ucw]

13 hours ago, KilliasK said:

Great, we got a thread about making everything less fun.

Can people just make things harder for themselves in their world gen?  (You know, instead of ruining it for the rest of us.)  I'm taken with the story line and story development in Hamlet, and can't focus on and enjoy that part because of the constant call for making everything as close to impossible to survive as can be imagined.  

[Yokoblue]

1 hour ago, ucw said:

Can people just make things harder for themselves in their world gen?  (You know, instead of ruining it for the rest of us.)  I'm taken with the story line and story development in Hamlet, and can't focus on and enjoy that part because of the constant call for making everything as close to impossible to survive as can be imagined.  

On world Gen: Its like you guys never even tried to play with the world gen. You realize even in don't starve original that even putting 1 enemy to "more" creates a map where you have it EVERYWHERE ? The world gen is good to remove things or slow down seasons etc.... But to choose how much you want of somethings its really bad. Try putting Spiders at "more" and you'll have spiders in literally every dome possible. SO imagine if you do that with a couple things...

 

On difficulty: I'm a hardcore player so of course i like when the game is hard, hence why i play Wes exclusively, but there is a need to give players a challenge or just not letting them abuse things. Its easy to give yourself rules like "no berries for oinc" or "No stealing" but when the game gives you so many options and you need to cross off half of em because it makes the game too easy, you have to wonder...

The beauty of the game of Don't starve is to die repeatedly until you learn. Learn what is a good strategy, learn the gameplan, learn what is strong what is weak. I think making character diversified and making things not overly strong is part of a great experience for don't starve, even for casual players. Most casual players wont get passed 2-3 seasons (around 30 days) and thats GOOD. Klei's job is to give a problem and a bunch of solutions, some more obvious, some less obvious. Thats the whole game design.

 

On Warbucks: Giving players a character that has 0 problem with sanity is a good thing in my opinion, it gives character diversity. The problem is that we already have characters like that.

• Maxwell is already the "super regen sanity" character. He has good negatives associated with it, great character design
• Wickerbottom has the "massive pool of sanity but use it with items" also good design

and thats without counting other characters with "sanity related traits" like Wendy and Willow.

I love the idea of Warbucks, he just need more negatives to flesh him out as a character more. I don't want to play another Maxwell but with 1 less inventory slot and more of everything else (HP etc).

 

 

[Ellilea]

Might just as well said if the game is too difficult you can simply change the world gen settings to make it easier. And if you set things to "less" or "none" it will not make everything look wildly out of place - setting it to more will, as @Yokoblue said.

Another option is getting some very simple QOL mods that will help you counter the difficulties you dislike - best example being a backpack and amulet slot mod that I personally use as well. It helps with management for the scatterbrains and prevents your crap from burning on the ground. But, personally, I like it being counteracted by difficulties in game. Overcoming challenges feels good, simply put.

I do believe games like Don't Starve should be very difficult by default, only opening customization options to make them easier. There's enough of the AAA titles that are directed at the more casual gaming audience. Indie and idie-adjacent titles are, with few exceptions, the only games hardcore players seeking challenge can look to.

And don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with casual gaming. I just always saw Don't Starve as a game that wants to cater to the playerbase seeking some more deadly challenges.

[ucw]

26 minutes ago, Yokoblue said:

snip

The developers are welcome to correct me if I am wrong here.  DS was originally about the lore and the story line.  However, many of the early players (I was an early player) wanted more monsters, more difficulty, more eye-hand coordination challenges and no time to rest between attacks.  Klei gave their fans what they wanted.  

It is in Klei's character to give people what they ask for.  People begged and pleaded for a multi-player DS experience, and were told "no" repeatedly. Klei stated that multli-player was never their intent, and went against the sense of isolation created by being dropped into the wild.  However, they eventually gave their fans what they wanted:  we now have the ever-popular DST.  Don't get me wrong -- I'm not complaining that Klei responds to fans by accommodating them.  

Hamlet incorporates more of what the original DS left behind in favor of more kiting challenges.  We have story line, more characters, interaction with characters, aspects of an RPG (without becoming an RPG.)  My concern is that when people fill up the forums with "this is too easy" and "get rid of the that perk" and "nerf this to make it more difficult" Klei will eventually comply, thereby (IMO) ruining the game.  My voice and the voices of others who are attracted to the lore and story and don't particulary want every perk and way to survive taken away so we never get to the end of the story need to be heard.  Those of us who don't want the game to become a hard core challenge need to be listened to and taken seriously by the developers, especially since the "try to kill me" crowd already has ROG and SW.  Hamlet can be different, and even easier, as it offers more than just constant challenge.  It offers exploration and is (as another forum member described it) is a veritable sandbox.  Let the rest of us play.  

[Yokoblue]

27 minutes ago, ucw said:

The developers are welcome to correct me if I am wrong here.  DS was originally about the lore and the story line.  However, many of the early players (I was an early player) wanted more monsters, more difficulty, more eye-hand coordination challenges and no time to rest between attacks.  Klei gave their fans what they wanted.  

It is in Klei's character to give people what they ask for.  People begged and pleaded for a multi-player DS experience, and were told "no" repeatedly. Klei stated that multli-player was never their intent, and went against the sense of isolation created by being dropped into the wild.  However, they eventually gave their fans what they wanted:  we now have the ever-popular DST.  Don't get me wrong -- I'm not complaining that Klei responds to fans by accommodating them.  

Hamlet incorporates more of what the original DS left behind in favor of more kiting challenges.  We have story line, more characters, interaction with characters, aspects of an RPG (without becoming an RPG.)  My concern is that when people fill up the forums with "this is too easy" and "get rid of the that perk" and "nerf this to make it more difficult" Klei will eventually comply, thereby (IMO) ruining the game.  My voice and the voices of others who are attracted to the lore and story and don't particulary want every perk and way to survive taken away so we never get to the end of the story need to be heard.  Those of us who don't want the game to become a hard core challenge need to be listened to and taken seriously by the developers, especially since the "try to kill me" crowd already has ROG and SW.  Hamlet can be different, and even easier, as it offers more than just constant challenge.  It offers exploration and is (as another forum member described it) is a veritable sandbox.  Let the rest of us play.  

I've been playing the game since the original Don't starve Beta as well (I used the Chrome Extension). The game was empty and shallow but god was it still revolutionary to me.

To answer your points:

On lore: The game can be both hard AND have compelling story and lore. One of the thing I like the most about don't starve is how everything is linked. I love the secrets the developper put in the trailers and other stuff. The overall story being "hidden" is nice to explore when you get to it. KLEI has been by far the developper i've seen listen to fan the most... They are incredible. I do want more characters interactions, more lore, the difficulty and lore are not mutually exclusive, we can have both.

 

On Warbuck: I am not asking Warbuck to have negatives because I want more challenge with him, NOT AT ALL. If i want challenge i play as Wes (in terms of character). I want him to have more personality, a different gamestyle etc.... I'll take Wigfrid as an exemple, thats GREAT character design because just adding the "only meat" negative make you play in a COMPLETELY different way. To give another exemple: Maxwell is similar, so few HP so you have to be a lot more cautious with him. Wolfgang: You need to change how you eat, you can't just eat to maximum hunger all the time like you do with ALL the other characters, you will be penalized for it.

I never use farms, i hate them, i think they are too time extensive and lots to manage all the time... but I would love a character that forced me to use them because I am limited in my options. The game is SO FILLED with content, but since KLEI give us so many options to tackle different problems, having character diversity make us use ALL of the solutions instead of just 1-2 of the best.

 

Also on the difficulty: Shipwreck is a lot easier than don't starve as a game. Nothing push you out as much as Winter/Summer and giants. It might be harder to tackle on some level but once you play a couple times, even casual players adapt to it more quickly (I have many many friends that play this game casually and I talk with them to get their input as well)