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Want someone to punish grievers? Krampus! He knows when you've been bad...


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Title ^

 

So, this lovable (kinda) demon who has a 0.01% chance (or was is 0.1%) of dropping a magnificent bag... and charcoal when killed comes when your naughtiness meter reaches 50 (?) by killing innocent creatures such as rabbits, tallbirds, beefalos, and Glommer.

 

He punishes those who do naughty things...

 

2 and 2 together...

 

So, how do you propose we determine if a person is counted as a griever or not; they could have just accidentally burned some grass because of a campfire or "accidentally" destroyed your structures and ran away with loot never to be seen again?

 

How will he punish them? Will the punishments be different for those who just killed innocent creatures (and possibly other players) than with creating dread by destroying farms and villages?

 

My thoughts:

 

The host should have the ability to know what other players are doing (well, not really.. getting clairvoyance is kinda tricky) and he can exact vengeance on them by sicking 1-5 Krampus(es?) on them...

 

...

 

Or

 

Much like in killing innocent creatures, destroying certain resources can trigger this... for example, burning a tuft of grass -- either intentional or otherwise -- can generate naughtiness, and burning, oh let's say 4 tufts (plucked from the ground or otherwise) in the entirety of your stay in that world, will get Krampus(es?)  to attack you... basically hound you to death... or somewhere along those lines... rocks can be an exception to this...

 

Generally, Krampus(es?) could become the police of the world and punish those who kill enough innocents or destroy enough resources... much like the treeguard is to trees... 

 

Punishment?

 

hmm... he'll stuff you in his bag and you will not be able to get out until you serve a sentence of a certain amount of days in game.. you will be able to have vision on the Krampus that kidnapped you while you during your sentence but will be unable to get out...

 

He will roam the map not attacking unless provoked, staying in the world for the duration of your sentence... he may die (get killed by other players, tentacles, etc) thus releasing the culprit... if it was deemed fit by the other players of course... if they don't want the "culprits" to serve the sentence, they may rescue him, if not, let him rot in the goat sack...

 

Going out of the server will not save you... when you return, you will still be in there and will not get out until you serve your sentence in-game... but I guess you could still chat to plead forgiveness to the players to save you, promising to be good... even if that happens, doing naughty things will still spawn the Krampus an it'll happen all over again... and maybe this time, the host will lay down the law and ban you for good...

 

Method of capturing the culprit:

 

When the culprit triggers this event; an animation will play showing Krampus appearing in a puff of smoke and doing his nabbing animation, capturing the player in his sack... (animation much like reviving and stuff)

 

Adding to this, when in pvp, players can be labled as "shady" if they have attacked/killed other players... this could be used to determine naughtiness too...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So, what do you guys think? Feel free to add more or do  something entirely different... I just wanted to point out krampus can do a lot more...

 

if we just believe...

 

O_O

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Krampus attacking players who walk around with just torches or Willow's Lighter.

Actually, that's good. There's no way a person unarmored and armed with a weapon that does not a lot of damage and if it runs out, they use their fists.

I am okay with this. But here's what I think is better.

A reputation system of sorts where the host can tell if a player is griefing by looking first at the chat and when he opens the player menu, it brings up a new option to sick an amount of Krampus on a player. You can only click it every time a player burns a tuft or kills a player.

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A reputation system of sorts where the host can tell if a player is griefing by looking first at the chat and when he opens the player menu, it brings up a new option to sick an amount of Krampus on a player. You can only click it every time a player burns a tuft or kills a player.

 

But then again, if we give the player the power to sick the goat men to other players... he/she could use them to troll... a dictator if you will... he could tell them to use a tuft of grass as fuel for an emergency fire... then he could sick krampus/krampi(?) at them...

 

and what is the plural of Krampus? 

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Most griefers don't care about progressing in the game, and don't care if their things are stolen, or if they die. If anything, getting all the goods that they took from your base permanently deleted by Krampus would be a positive for them. 

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Most griefers don't care about progressing in the game, and don't care if their things are stolen, or if they die. If anything, getting all the goods that they took from your base permanently deleted by Krampus would be a positive for them. 

 

Permanently deleting? What do you mean? All I said was capturing the culprit in his goat sack (interpret that as you wish :3)

...

 

Well, this solution only works if the player does anything naughty... looting is not really tackled here... although there was a post I made before... wait... hold on...

 

 

 

A possible solution for this is to maybe have it so upon kick or ban the player's items are all dropped to the ground(save for character specifics) as if they had died. So even if things were crafted, the items would at least be there since the player is either out for the time, or for good.

 

 

 

 

And upon leaving, instead of just leaving the things behind in a pile of mess, "pandora's box" (a strange box in the game files that crashes the game when opening the map) could spawn and in it, contain all that "stolen" loot... it looks like a skull so it should fit perfectly for this purpose (instead of a skeleton of the person... or both could be nice)

 

 

how about that? When Krampus takes the culprit into custody... pandora's box appears in their stead and all the items they "took" go there...

 

or... the items stay in the Krampus sack... even when the culprit logs out/gets banned, the items he had upon being captured by Krampus will be in the Krampus sack! Just kill Krampus to get not just the items back but... maybe also the sack?... or get a higher chance to spawn the sack...

 

How about that?

 

O_O

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The problem with all ingame penalties for not cooperating is the fact that griefers, as a rule, do not actually care about playing the game.

If they join, burn your base down, and then get put in a bag (okay?), your base is still burnt down, and you still need to roll back to a snapshot. I don't see how this would have any effect that is more effective than just banning them. If anything, they will probably just be amused that they made you angry enough to send a festive goat after them. If you're mad, they're happy, and this wouldn't undo any of the damage. This is assuming the host has to "send" them after you. 


If it's automatic, there's absolutely no way to distinguish a real griefer from accidents or such. Do you have to burn tufts directly for it to count? What if you light a tree on fire and it accidentally catches to nearby twigs or tufts? Does lighting one tuft on fire, which then catches to 30 other tufts indirectly, count as 1 burnt tuft or 31? What about sources of fire that are indirect, such as taking Willow, and hitting a mob with the lighter to cause it to catch fire, while dragging it through the base? Does that count? Like lighting a Treeguard? What about Willow's low sanity fires? You could easily get low sanity on purpose to burn things. I see roughly a 0% chance of this working fairly and accurately. 


EDIT: If/when the AFK state is added, a way for the host to put a player forcefully into that state via the menu would be good. It would aid in figuring out who did it, because you could pause the suspect while the other players talk. I think this is kind of what you're going for. I think a host command using this feature that is supposed to already be in the works would be easier than an entirely new mechanism that doesn't sound highly effective anyways.

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A reputation system of sorts where the host can tell if a player is griefing by looking first at the chat and when he opens the player menu, it brings up a new option to sick an amount of Krampus on a player. You can only click it every time a player burns a tuft or kills a player.

 

I can see me abusing this so much.

 

Have a friend burn one tuft at a time until we all have Krampus sacks.

 

600 (σ = 246) tufts are so much easier to come by than the 24000 (σ = 9840) rabbits

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The problem with all ingame penalties for not cooperating is the fact that griefers, as a rule, do not actually care about playing the game. If they join, burn your base down, and then get put in a bag (okay?), your base is still burnt down, and you still need to roll back to a snapshot. I don't see how this would have any effect that is more effective than just banning them. If anything, they will probably just be amused that they made you angry enough to send a festive goat after them. If you're mad, they're happy, and this wouldn't undo any of the damage. This is assuming the host has to "send" them after you.  If it's automatic, there's absolutely no way to distinguish a real griefer from accidents or such. Do you have to burn tufts directly for it to count? What if you light a tree on fire and it accidentally catches to nearby twigs or tufts? Does lighting one tuft on fire, which then catches to 30 other tufts indirectly, count as 1 burnt tuft or 30? What about sources of fire that are indirect, such as taking Willow, and hitting a mob with the lighter to cause it to catch fire, while dragging it through the base? Does that count? What about lighting a Treeguard? What about Willow's low sanity fires? You could easily get low sanity on purpose to burn things. I see roughly a 0% chance of this working fairly and accurately.  EDIT: If/when the AFK state is added, a way for the host to put a player forcefully into that state via the menu would be good. It would aid in figuring out who did it, because you could pause the suspect while the other players talk. I think this is kind of what you're going for. I think a host command using this feature that is supposed to already be in the works would be easier than an entirely new mechanism that doesn't sound highly effective anyways.

 

and then...

 

So, how do you propose we determine if a person is counted as a griever or not; they could have just accidentally burned some grass because of a campfire or "accidentally" destroyed your structures and ran away with loot never to be seen again?
 

 

O_O

 

So, could you help with the "determining-whether-the-player-is-a-griever-or-not" part si vous plait?

 

:wickerbottomthanks:  :wilson_laugh::wilson_incredulous:

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I still like the idea I had awhile ago about them being forced into an enclosed area with only a Deadly Feast. :)

But giving Krampus an actual role is good too. Perhaps if he's used in this way he should put those chains of his to use, something like how the Ewecus locks players in place.

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It'd probably be reallly hard, though. Having to detach the player controller and all... Well, I'll put it on the list

 

Hmm... what about the codes used for sleeping? IDK, I had a bug before where I couldn't walk out of the tent even when I was pressing all the direction controls, so I kept losing hunger then eventually health...

EDIT: If/when the AFK state is added, a way for the host to put a player forcefully into that state via the menu would be good. It would aid in figuring out who did it, because you could pause the suspect while the other players talk. I think this is kind of what you're going for. I think a host command using this feature that is supposed to already be in the works would be easier than an entirely new mechanism that doesn't sound highly effective anyways.

 

 

I feel like I have to apologize for my reply to your posts... while I read them now, they sound a bit combative and aggressive (and sarcastic, annoying too...) so sorry if it came off as donkey-like (would it be bad if I used the word "as*"?)

 

Why not just make it so that whoever gets kicked/banned would drop the loot (not if they leave by themselves).

 

 

Yes:

 

And upon leaving, instead of just leaving the things behind in a pile of mess, "pandora's box" (a strange box in the game files that crashes the game when opening the map) could spawn and in it, contain all that "stolen" loot... it looks like a skull so it should fit perfectly for this purpose (instead of a skeleton of the person... or both could be nice)     how about that? When Krampus takes the culprit into custody... pandora's box appears in their stead and all the items they "took" go there...   or... the items stay in the Krampus sack... even when the culprit logs out/gets banned, the items he had upon being captured by Krampus will be in the Krampus sack! Just kill Krampus to get not just the items back but... maybe also the sack?... or get a higher chance to spawn the sack...   How about that?   O_O

 

 

but the sack part could be heavily exploited so idk...

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It would aid in figuring out who did it

 

The "Jury" in "Jury Rigged Portal" Other players will put you to trial... and punish you... (get banned and all the items you have get dropped and left behind...

 

Wait... doesn't the player's data get saved even after they leave? (like what they're wearing, what items they have on them, health, sanity, hunger...)

 

So, if the game has all that info... can we make a way to get them back regardless of the player involved/suspected/banned?

 

(please include Krampus in your suggestion if you can)

 

Please

Please

Please

Please

 

Krampus O_O

 

Not trying to annoy you with Krampus but because the devs would like it better if there was an element of the game involved in this process (at least I think they would... well I would... wouldn't you like to get a person banned and make it canon... a lot of work but if it looks good... eat it... O_O)

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maybe a claim idea? 

if you have ever played mince-craft (or whatever it is) you know the golden shovel server-side claim mod?

 

have that! have an item that everyone stars out with that will allow that to claim a certain amount, (i dunno late game, how about claims increase by N every N days?)

 

just a thought

 

 

sorry for my spelling, English is my 1st language...

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How would you define griefing in PVP? Wouldn't anything you do to disrupt the other players fall under the "versus" part of that?

 

While it's a cute idea to use Krampus to punish griefers, since that is his traditionally-assigned role, I don't know that griefing is well-defined enough to impose an automatic solution. I really think that games like Don't Starve Together work best with relatively small groups of people who already know one another and can "cooperate", even if that means in a meta level with gentlemen's agreements in PVP. There are already kick/ban systems in place, and there's really nothing more needed in a tight-knit enough group.

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How would you define griefing in PVP?

Yes, that's the tough part...

So, how do you propose we determine if a person is counted as a griever or not; they could have just accidentally burned some grass because of a campfire or "accidentally" destroyed your structures and ran away with loot never to be seen again?
 

 

While it's a cute idea to use Krampus to punish griefers,

Yes it is O__O

 

 

 

I don't know that griefing is well-defined enough to impose an automatic solution.

Agreed... wanna brainstorm and figure out what would be defined as grieving? :)

 

I really think that games like Don't Starve Together work best with relatively small groups of people who already know one another and can "cooperate", even if that means in a meta level with gentlemen's agreements in PVP. There are already kick/ban systems in place, and there's really nothing more needed in a tight-knit enough group.

 

Well, yes, I totally agree with what you're saying... but there are "dedicated servers" that can allow anyone in... they're great places to actually feel a survival element especially with random strangers... you can even make a new friend!

 

Now the problem is the "random strangers" part... some could be genuinely entering the game to play but there are those who just go in to mess with people...

 

O___O

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That's why I asked specifically about PVP (in addition to in general), because isn't messing with people kind of the goal in PVP? I mean, I suppose we wouldn't want to make it too easy to disrupt your opponents, but rather than defining anything as griefing, I think it'd be better to balance the power you have to do so. For example, perhaps make it more difficult to light structures on fire and more difficult to hammer down structures that you haven't placed. Perhaps when a container is hammered by someone other than the one who placed it, the items don't appear until a set amount of time afterward? (Ideally, they'd appear for the "owner", but I'm not entirely sure how feasible that is.)

 

The best part is that these balances could trickle down (or probably more like "up") to co-op to help prevent griefing there, too.

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@mikeek, Well, I think the problem arises because there are really three sets of conditions to satisfy with only one set of mechanics:

  1. Hard to grief
  2. Players and their bases should be threatened by the environment
  3. Not too hard to break down structures that you want to reuse/reposition

3 could probably be solved with some sort of ownership system, but that's very ... artificial, immersion-breaking, so I don't think Klei will do something like that.

 

The combination of 1 and 2 is really hard, because a lot of griefing can be disguised as environmental damage, such as runaway fires. Fires being a threat to players and their bases is definitely a part of Don't Starve, as is the ability to screw yourself over by accidentally starting them. The problem here is that they can be used maliciously, and there's no good way to differentiate.

 

I wish I had a solution, but the best I can come up with is the idea of a mod that adds an ownership system and limits griefing at the cost of also reducing environmental threat, to be used for public games. Private games with people you know work quite well, so I wouldn't want global game balance to be changed to suit public games.

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@rezecib , Yeah, the balance between threatening your base and making it hard to grief is tricky. That's why I'd only really play with smaller, self-policing groups rather than a public server. (Not necessarily people I know, I could imagine myself posting in the "looking for a group" section of the forum to find one.) The one thing I could think to maintain threats to the base while reducing griefing ability would be to have the threats that are completely outside of a player's control be the ones that have "full" effect, such as lightning strikes and summer smolders. But that would introduce the need to keep track of two different kinds of fires, and it would still mean that the spread wouldn't be as effective. (Unless all fires set by this "natural" fire were the same type and all, but that just gets even more complicated and, as you said, rather immersion-breaking.) The base hasslers such as the Deerclops would still threaten the base without any player control, but of course they're fewer and further between, not to mention not added to DST yet.

 

I do think that for PVP, some kind of ownership system would be necessary, even if it does feel somewhat contrived. I'm not terribly interested in PVP, personally, but I've always believed that things players can do should be accounted for and incorporated into games rather than declared to be "legitimate" in one context and "griefing" in another, especially when those contexts aren't well-defined.

 

(Edit: Also, how do you do the mention? I'm new here, and embarrassed that I failed at it. >.<)

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This could potentially be good in dst.So we got admin,mod.Why don't we add in police.Police is basically krampus with real human being(or alien)that can spectate the whole wideworld and can spectate a player action.Depend on the action and the behaviors,they can assume that this is a griever or not.If they are,police can teleport to player and kill them,police has x1.5 speed than a player with a walking cane.

 

After getting beaten up,that player meter will get reset to a specific number.Not 0 of course.If the player get killed 3 more times in a day.The player will get temporary ban on the server.If the player get ban more than 3 times.Permanent ban

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