An alternative to massive arrays of storage containers

[DaveSatx]

From the beginning I've eventually created large numbers of storage containers to keep things tidy and avoid decor issues.  Some games I'd build a ton at once, other games the number would slowly creep up.

This play through I decided to do something different.

I noticed that the decor impact of debris is short range, 2 tiles if i'm recalling correctly, so i built a few storage containers in out of the way places, set them to sweep only and destroy/rebuild them once they get full. 457ish cycles in its working great. All of the debris is concentrated someplace irrelevant and i've not had to deal with massive arrays of the containers and.. Where to put more of them.  lol.

[Ixenzo]

Don't need to destroy them, just uncheck "All".

[Nitroturtle]

This is exactly what I did in my current play-through.  Previously, I had always built huge storage rooms and had everything put away.  Doing this method with sweeping has been much easier this playthrough, and I expect this will be my new method from here forward.  One tip, if you leave one compactor near with no storage assigned, you can quickly empty the rest.  Just click on the empty one, hit the '\' key, then click on all of the rest exept for one.  Then click the remaining one, hit '\' again and then click the ones you just emptied, then do the same for the remaining compactor.  Once you do this a few times, it can be done very quickly to empty them anytime.

[pancakemafia]

Been doing that ever since. Also added some automation and ways to clean germy loots.

But now it's just filled with CO2 lol. It was filled with chlorine back then but I lost track of what's happening. 

What it does it there is an external loader outside of the base and the dups just place things there and let the conveyor take it to this place. I just manually clear them every now and then via the clock sensor to open the doors. I think it's better if I remove the diagonal sweeper so it can't reach the things at the bottom and that would kept the doors open. The dups will then just use the carbon dioxide lock at the bottom to pick things up when they need it.

Things that are needed to be improved in this setup are

1. Best way of decontaminating germy stuff 
2. Best way for dups to pick up things inside, I find a carbon dioxide airlock the best fit for this or possibly a hydrogen one.. hmmm  nah
3. Cooling the sweepers as they produce significant amount of heat when used a couple of cycles straight
4. Better way of dropping stuff to the ground

[DaveSatx]

1 hour ago, Ixenzo said:

Don't need to destroy them, just uncheck "All".

duh.  to quote Cryptic Fox... I am Smurt, SMRT.

I know this.. I guess I have the Destructive trait?

[babba]

In terms of FPS, the games frame rate/speed, I suggested some time ago to stop the simulation of materials in containers and also to have 50,100,200 ton skip size containers. Would you like that idea or do you see no need for this ?

[DaveSatx]

2 minutes ago, pancakemafia said:

Been doing that ever since. Also added some automation and ways to clean germy loots.

But now it's just filled with CO2 lol. It was filled with chlorine back then but I lost track of what's happening. 

What it does it there is an external loader outside of the base and the dups just place things there and let the conveyor take it to this place. I just manually clear them every now and then via the clock sensor to open the doors. I think it's better if I remove the diagonal sweeper so it can't reach the things at the bottom and that would kept the doors open. The dups will then just use the carbon dioxide lock at the bottom to pick things up when they need it.

Things that are needed to be improved in this setup are

1. Best way of decontaminating germy stuff 
2. Best way for dups to pick up things inside, I find a carbon dioxide airlock the best fit for this or possibly a hydrogen one.. hmmm  nah
3. Cooling the sweepers as they produce significant amount of heat when used a couple of cycles straight
4. Better way of dropping stuff to the ground

1) Are germs really a problem for you?  I play on regular everything, with some basic setup ahead of time I've never had anything other than hypothermia, sunburn and the like.  If so, place  them in chlorine

2) Since decor impact on morale is averaged over the entire day I think this is moot unless you put these right in the bedroom or something LOL.

I've not bothered with sweepers but heat is always an issue.

3 minutes ago, babba said:

In terms of FPS, the games frame rate/speed, I suggested some time ago to stop the simulation of materials in containers and also to have 50,100,200 ton skip size containers. Would you like that idea or do you see no need for this ?

I think they would help, although i'm not sure what you mean by skip size, i'm assuming that is actually ship size, as in bulk storage.

I worry aboout fps, i've not got a really powerful machine - but this isn't impacting my fps in any noticeable way, perhaps because i'm not using containers? *shrug*

I think they should add a new automation item, the air cannon.   like a sweeper but it shoots items out in the direction pointed to land on the ground.. or the water/oil (for cooling)  or even the magma (for elimination).

[babba]

17 minutes ago, DaveSatx said:

I think they would help, although i'm not sure what you mean by skip size, i'm assuming that is actually ship size, as in bulk storage.

I worry aboout fps, i've not got a really powerful machine - but this isn't impacting my fps in any noticeable way, perhaps because i'm not using containers? *shrug*

I think they should add a new automation item, the air cannon.   like a sweeper but it shoots items out in the direction pointed to land on the ground.. or the water/oil (for cooling)  or even the magma (for elimination).

5

FPS: There is a tricky little solution, but it would require you to start the debug mode: In debug, you could fill every unused tile of your map with Neutronium. Neutronium is a dead tile and not simulated. Im on my last final map - The one Im playing on, it has 95% Neutronium ( Im playing with map size x10.66 ).

Skip, image as fair use:

I love your material cannon idea

[Fischer_L]

I have a question, what's better in term of fps for mass storage: full storage compactor (only one type of material stored) or 20t debris on a ground?

[Glassyfo]

11 minutes ago, Fischer_L said:

I have a question, what's better in term of fps for mass storage: full storage compactor (only one type of material stored) or 20t debris on a ground?

As an addendum to that, is it best to group compactors with the same storage together or can I place them wherever.

[Anton L]

 

1. Container for dups to deliver mats. 

2. Autosweeper with interrupt automation 

3. "Fake" container. Autosweeper tryes to deliver mats in this container, but all mats fall to 5 spot.

4. Autosweeper deliver mats to containers. 1 container for sandstone, 2nd container for granite and etc. 

5. Place where tons of mats lay on ground and dups cant take them. Dups take mats from containers (4)

6. Atosweeper deliver mats to industrial rails if needed. 

 

[PhailRaptor]

11 minutes ago, bleeter6 said:

As an addendum to that, is it best to group compactors with the same storage together or can I place them wherever.

That one I can answer.  For pathing reasons, you want to remove as many decisions as possible from the equation of getting from point A to point B.  If you have multiple resource dumps, or a single resource stored in multiple locations, and a Dupe gets an errand to go collect some, each time that Dupe will have to choose location A or location B.  This will increase the number of calculations and decisions that must be made each time a Dupe's pathing is determined.

So definitely consolidate to a single location wherever possible.

[DaveSatx]

1 hour ago, PhailRaptor said:

That one I can answer.  For pathing reasons, you want to remove as many decisions as possible from the equation of getting from point A to point B.  If you have multiple resource dumps, or a single resource stored in multiple locations, and a Dupe gets an errand to go collect some, each time that Dupe will have to choose location A or location B.  This will increase the number of calculations and decisions that must be made each time a Dupe's pathing is determined.

So definitely consolidate to a single location wherever possible.

cool.  so having everything in one place is good for fps. explains a lot for my play through - i've got less lag/latency than usual for 500 cycles and i've noticed pathing seems to be the major cause.

1 hour ago, Fischer_L said:

I have a question, what's better in term of fps for mass storage: full storage compactor (only one type of material stored) or 20t debris on a ground?

I have no idea except in the broader sense.  as phailraptor pointed out pathing needs to be as simple as can be.. so containers increase that since they are quite limited leading to more and more locations to choose from for the dupes.

(edit: Reading comprehension failure. lol.

I don't think there would be any functional difference between a full container of one thing and a single stack on the ground)

  We see nice orderly rows but the dupes see 10-20 or more places where the material they want are stored.  I expect its not a major issue until later in the game.

I know I like not having so many containers and the wasted space and the lack of debris all over the base anything else is gravy.

[Soulwind]

One thing about stacking on the ground,  the is a size limit for one tile space and beyond that it starts deleting material

[babba]

My daft original suggestion long time ago was to have the 500 ton skip as maximum storage unit. If the materials would not be simulated being inside and if it also has a big red button "Trash(destroy)" all content, I would find that great. So a large container, let's say 10 tiles wide and 4 tiles high.

Currently I'm playing in debug without compactors, manually using the "Delete floor content" button.

[DaveSatx]

7 hours ago, Soulwind said:

One thing about stacking on the ground,  the is a size limit for one tile space and beyond that it starts deleting material

oops. lol.  anyone have an idea what it is

[Neotuck]

If you are just dropping items on the ground, the sweeper can do that with automation.

No need to empty compactors

[crypticorb]

8 hours ago, Soulwind said:

One thing about stacking on the ground,  the is a size limit for one tile space and beyond that it starts deleting material

 

11 minutes ago, DaveSatx said:

oops. lol.  anyone have an idea what it is

That information is incorrect. Material used to be deleted once it exceeded about 24 tons, but now it just starts a new stack. It was fixed in a fairly recent patch.

[DaveSatx]

Just now, crypticorb said:

 

That information is incorrect. Material used to be deleted once it exceeded about 24 tons, but now it just starts a new stack. It was fixed in a fairly recent patch.

to say 'I Breathed a mental sigh of relief' is an understatement

[Glassyfo]

1 hour ago, DaveSatx said:

to say 'I Breathed a mental sigh of relief' is an understatement

Enough material in the same tile turns into an actual tile. Then digging cuts the amount in half.

[clickrush]

I've become a fan of automated storage and delivery systems, where you hide away most of your storage and only give access to the I/O + maybe 1 container per material or so. I usually build them on the side, when there is nothing more pressing/exciting to be done otherwise. They don't require much power overall and can easily be scaled.

[crypticorb]

2 hours ago, bleeter6 said:

Enough material in the same tile turns into an actual tile. Then digging cuts the amount in half.

Yes and no. You can stack up debris infinitely, it will divide into 24 ton separate items, never forming a tile. I've created an automation monstrosity that auto-sorted materials into neat piles, but abandoned it due to lag.

There are only two times where debris can turn into a solid tile:

1. State change: most obvious in dirt cookers or volcanoes, when a block of liquid becomes solid, or a piece of debris with a mass >200kg changes state, it will form a solid block, and absorb any debris of the same type into the newly formed tile.
2. Falling/forming blocks: most obvious with sand, snow, or regolith. When regolith tiles fall or are shat out by shove voles, they absorb any regolith debris into the newly formed tile.

 

[DaveSatx]

22 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

Yes and no. You can stack up debris infinitely, it will divide into 24 ton separate items, never forming a tile. I've created an automation monstrosity that auto-sorted materials into neat piles, but abandoned it due to lag.

There are only two times where debris can turn into a solid tile:

1. State change: most obvious in dirt cookers or volcanoes, when a block of liquid becomes solid, or a piece of debris with a mass >200kg changes state, it will form a solid block, and absorb any debris of the same type into the newly formed tile.
2. Falling/forming blocks: most obvious with sand, snow, or regolith. When regolith tiles fall or are shat out by shove voles, they absorb any regolith debris into the newly formed tile.

 

and being extreted by a vile shove vole.  death to all voles!!!!!

[DaveSatx]

Just now, Neotuck said:

and yet they are vital for building on the surface

Why? i can think of a few ways to dispose ot regolith and i like iron

[Neotuck]

Just now, DaveSatx said:

Why? i can think of a few ways to dispose ot regolith and i like iron

please share