psusi Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said: The issue is energy density. You have to balance the total weight of your rocket with how much energy your fuel contains. Too much weight and you'll run out of fuel before getting to where you want to go. Steam doesn't need an oxidizer, but it also is not very energetic. You'll quickly get to the point where adding more steam doesn't get you any further because the total weight of the rocket is too much. Yea, but petroleum wouldn't be any better since you have to add twice as much fuel ( 1x for petrol + 1x for oxygen ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 One unit of steam has less energy than 0.5 units of petrol + 0.5 units of oxygen. You will get much farther with a petroleum rocket because the energy contained within the fuel is much greater than the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 3 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said: One unit of steam has less energy than 0.5 units of petrol + 0.5 units of oxygen. You will get much farther with a petroleum rocket because the energy contained within the fuel is much greater than the weight. Oh, so when the OP said it has twice the efficiency, that was already counting needing twice the mass of fuel ( the oxygen )? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkunkMaster Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I like this tool, however, i can't change the calculations based on if i use oxylite or liquid oxygen. Can anyone shed light on if the calculations in the tool are based on lox or oxylite ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunderLock Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 5 hours ago, SkunkMaster said: I like this tool, however, i can't change the calculations based on if i use oxylite or liquid oxygen. Can anyone shed light on if the calculations in the tool are based on lox or oxylite ? Right now the main engine fuel is always lox and the solid booster is always oxylite. Is it possible to do anything else in game right now? Happy to update the tool if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkunkMaster Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, TunderLock said: Right now the main engine fuel is always lox and the solid booster is always oxylite. Is it possible to do anything else in game right now? Happy to update the tool if required. i've observed the dupes deliver oxylite. I think it depends on if the tank is hooked up to a liquid line or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunderLock Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SkunkMaster said: i've observed the dupes deliver oxylite. I think it depends on if the tank is hooked up to a liquid line or not. Ok sure, I'll try replicate in-game and then update the tool as necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The question for me is, why i should launch a rocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, Oozinator said: The question for me is, why i should launch a rocket? 1) Space only materials (Super-Conductor, Super-Coolant, Perfect Insulator for Abyssalite alone is no more, Visco-Airlock-gel, Niobium +500°C Overheat, Thermiumite +(9000/10)°C Overheat) 2) Exchanging Petroleum or Hydrogen along with Oxygen with resources like Steel, so basically you only need Water (for Hydrogen, Oxygen, Crude Oil) 3) Because awesome In any event, Steam is also NG simply because you can not slap more than one engine on a rocket so that the max amount of fuel is 900kg. For Petroleum and Hydrogen 2.700kg is often recommended and only needs one Oxygen tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said: 1) Space only materials (Super-Conductor, Super-Coolant, Perfect Insulator for Abyssalite alone is no more, Visco-Airlock-gel, Niobium +500°C Overheat, Thermiumite +(9000/10)°C Overheat) 2) Exchanging Petroleum or Hydrogen along with Oxygen with resources like Steel, so basically you only need Water (for Hydrogen, Oxygen, Crude Oil) 3) Because awesome In any event, Steam is also NG simply because you can not slap more than one engine on a rocket so that the max amount of fuel is 900kg. For Petroleum and Hydrogen 2.700kg is often recommended and only needs one Oxygen tank. 1. No need in the moment for any of this, i bet my needs scale up, when i use rockets (heat for example) 2. I don't understand that "exchanging part" would be exactly what i need, i freeze/dump excess water. Explain pls. 3. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Oozinator said: 2. i Do not understand that "exchanging part" would be exactly what i need, i freeze/dump excess water. Explain pls. (Taking the tool here for calculation as well as the gamepedia plus my hidden chart) So if I take Water as base, I could get resources like Steel from the 30k km away Satellite, 35% Steel it says To reach 30.000km... with Petroleum as fuel and as much cargo bay efficiency as possible, I only need... 1000+1000 kg fuel, for two cargo bays (2*700 with one cargo bay is obviously worse) with a Hydrogen as fuel and as much cargo bay efficiency as possible, I only need... 600+600kg fuel for 2 (500*2 for 1 and 1100*2 for 3) So, ultimately I should get 700kg of Steel for 1000kg Petroleum and 1000kg Oxygen or 600kg Hydrogen and 600kg Oxygen plus waste (Copper and Glass) For 1t Petroleum I need either 1t Crude Oil and boil it or 2t Crude Oil and refine it, let's say I boil it. 1t Crude Oil can be produced with 333.333kg Water (otherwise it is another +333.333kg) For 1t of Oxygen I need 1126.126kg Water (Electrolyzer ofc, meaning also ~100kg Hydrogen) =>1459.459kg of Water for 700kg Steel plus a lot of waste (Hydrogen included as well) For 600kg Oxygen I need 675.675kg Water and also get 82.432 kg Hydrogen, leaving 517.567kg Hydrogen, I need another 4242.357kg of Water (meaning also 3767.213kg Oxygen) =4918.032kg of Water To sum it up, 1,5t Water = 700kg Steel + 1300kg Copper&Glass + 100kg Hydrogen 5t Water = 700kg Steel + 1300kg Copper&Glass + 3750kg Oxygen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SakuraKoi said: (Taking the tool here for calculation as well as the gamepedia plus my hidden chart) So if I take Water as base, I could get resources like Steel from the 30k km away Satellite, 35% Steel it says To reach 30.000km... with Petroleum as fuel and as much cargo bay efficiency as possible, I only need... 1000+1000 kg fuel, for two cargo bays (2*700 with one cargo bay is obviously worse) with a Hydrogen as fuel and as much cargo bay efficiency as possible, I only need... 600+600kg fuel for 2 (500*2 for 1 and 1100*2 for 3) So, ultimately I should get 700kg of Steel for 1000kg Petroleum and 1000kg Oxygen or 600kg Hydrogen and 600kg Oxygen plus waste (Copper and Glass) For 1t Petroleum I need either 1t Crude Oil and boil it or 2t Crude Oil and refine it, let's say I boil it. 1t Crude Oil can be produced with 333.333kg Water (otherwise it is another +333.333kg) For 1t of Oxygen I need 1126.126kg Water (Electrolyzer ofc, meaning also ~100kg Hydrogen) =>1459.459kg of Water for 700kg Steel plus a lot of waste (Hydrogen included as well) For 600kg Oxygen I need 675.675kg Water and also get 82.432 kg Hydrogen, leaving 517.567kg Hydrogen, I need another 4242.357kg of Water (meaning also 3767.213kg Oxygen) =4918.032kg of Water To sum it up, 1,5t Water = 700kg Steel + 1300kg Copper&Glass + 100kg Hydrogen 5t Water = 700kg Steel + 1300kg Copper&Glass + 3750kg Oxygen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Can steam pumped into the steam engine condense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 10 hours ago, SakuraKoi said: In any event, Steam is also NG simply because you can not slap more than one engine on a rocket so that the max amount of fuel is 900kg. For Petroleum and Hydrogen 2.700kg is often recommended and only needs one Oxygen tank. What? That made no sense. First you said that you can not have more than 900kg of fuel, then you said you can have 2,700kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, psusi said: What? That made no sense. First you said that you can not have more than 900kg of fuel, then you said you can have 2,700kg. Again, only Steam is limited to 900kg, the other two are not because they are stored in liquid tanks instead of the Thruster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, SakuraKoi said: Again, only Steam is limited to 900kg, the other two are not because they are stored in liquid tanks instead of the Thruster. Oh, weird... so you don't need a fuel tank at all for steam? That saves you some on the mass penalty I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemie Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 13 hours ago, SkunkMaster said: i've observed the dupes deliver oxylite. I think it depends on if the tank is hooked up to a liquid line or not. Booster and oxygen tank need gantry or jetpacks to load oxylitte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Wait, aren't the closest objects 10,000 km away? According to the calculator, you can't get that far on a steam engine with just 1 cargo bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, psusi said: Wait, aren't the closest objects 10,000 km away? According to the calculator, you can't get that far on a steam engine with just 1 cargo bay. Steam engine on its own can launch 5 research bays to the first level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, bleeter6 said: Steam engine on its own can launch 5 research bays to the first level. Yea, I just noticed that. So you can't get anything with a steam engine other than the 250 research points from the first asteroid? Seems kind of silly that you can't get any cargo but instead you can make out all of the research you can get from a planet in one trip with 5 research bays. Oh weird. Found that petroleum with only 2 fuel pods and 1700 fuel can hoist 3 cargo bays to 10,000 km. Throw on a solid booster though and it it can't even get off the ground. In fact, the only configuration I can find where a solid booster helps is the steam engine: it allows it to actually make it to 10,000 or 20,000 km with one cargo bay. Every configuration I tried with petroleum or hydrogen it makes things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, psusi said: Yea, I just noticed that. So you can't get anything with a steam engine other than the 250 research points from the first asteroid? Seems kind of silly that you can't get any cargo but instead you can make out all of the research you can get from a planet in one trip with 5 research bays. Boosters will increase the range apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, bleeter6 said: Boosters will increase the range apparently. Not according to the calculator. Oddly, it seems that a booster with no actual fuel lets a petroleum rocket make it to 20,000 km with a cargo bay... a few km more than a booster can do with a fully fueled steam engine. Or a booster can throw an unfueled petroleum rocket with cargo bay and 3 research modules to the 10,000 km range. 2 boosters on an unfueled petroleum rocket with 1 cargo bay and 3 research modules can reach 30,000 km. It doesn't seem like Klei put any effort into tuning this so that it is at all sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 44 minutes ago, psusi said: Not according to the calculator. Oddly, it seems that a booster with no actual fuel lets a petroleum rocket make it to 20,000 km with a cargo bay... a few km more than a booster can do with a fully fueled steam engine. Or a booster can throw an unfueled petroleum rocket with cargo bay and 3 research modules to the 10,000 km range. 2 boosters on an unfueled petroleum rocket with 1 cargo bay and 3 research modules can reach 30,000 km. It doesn't seem like Klei put any effort into tuning this so that it is at all sane. You mean in-game? I haven't launched a rocket yet so I can't build a booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, psusi said: Not according to the calculator. The calculator is simply wrong since all solid booster values are different. For Steam: 1 Solid Booster + 5 Research=> >20k km 3 Solid Booster + 4 Research=> >30k km Proof? You ask for it, you get it: Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariilyn Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, psusi said: Not according to the calculator. 1 hour ago, SakuraKoi said: The calculator is simply wrong since all solid booster values are different. What do you mean? Solid boosters always add 12 000 km each. It's the weight penalty that is non-linear. As a rocket becomes heavier due to additional rocket parts, the weight penalty also becomes more severe for each kg of mass. If you just keep adding rocket boosters, at some point the weight penalty added for each additional module simply becomes higher than the added booster range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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