thejohn1567 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I did some calculations to see which foods were most sustainable.They were surprisingly similar in fertilization/irrigation requirements and number of plants. The only real outlier was mushrooms, rather unsurprisingly. These are a bit more sustainable now that you can get more slime from rockets now. A single puft produces enough for about 1.5 dupes if you use the slime for fertilizer anyway. (As a side note this makes oxygen through pufts-distiller method even worse since you could throw the slime on mushrooms instead and divert the water you saved on farming to electrolyzers.) Mushbars and mushfries were surprisingly bad. I also included a quick water/algae per dupe per cycle for oxygen. Oxygen through electrolyzers actually uses near identical amounts of water to food from making gristle berries, 67.5 and 66.7 kg per cycle respectively. For using critters for food: You don't need that many critters to support a dupe on omelette/meat dishes, though ranching takes significantly more micromanagement and dupe time. I've never done it myself, but theoretically if you ranch dreckos with balm lilies you essentially get food for free since they require no fertilizer. Slicksters I guess are "free" food since they use only 20kg of carbon dioxide per cycle(dupes breath 1.2kg per cycle, coal gens 12kg so harder to sustain). Though it would take 1.5 hatches per dupe for BBQ (1000kcal per dupe), they will eat 700kcal per day if you feed them food (according to the extremely useful post on critters) so they will essentially just use 1050kcal to produce 1000kcal, not to mention the pepper you need. Even if you use electrolyzers and gristle berries only, that's about 130kg of water per cycle and maps come with a guaranteed probably 1500-2000 kg per cycle. I know you gain 6.7kg of water on a lavatory use, though I haven't tested how much water you could get out of inhumanely torturing a vomiter dupe, or if you could cruelly starve them to save water, though i have heard you can save on oxygen by only leaving them a small pocket to constantly run to every once in a while. I doubt you would need to go to these kinds of extremes to get a sizable population, (thanks Brothgar the youtuber). New Microsoft Excel Worksheet.xlsx Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Guide/Food Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technoincubus Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Wiki is horribly outdated Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slvrsrfr Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The facts and numbers are great, thank you so much. I'm having difficulty reading the format though. I'm slowly digesting it now, i think. May I copy paste this out, for reference? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I was going to say something is off with your numbers because I run something like 1.2 mushrooms per dupe just fine. Then I realized you are assuming no farmer's touch bonus. That makes a big difference. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, psusi said: I was going to say something is off with your numbers because I run something like 1.2 mushrooms per dupe just fine. Then I realized you are assuming no farmer's touch bonus. That makes a big difference. Since not everything (Mealwood, Mushbars, meat/BBQ, etc) can be given Farmer's Touch, you have to do a base comparison without it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 hours ago, beowulf2010 said: Since not everything (Mealwood, Mushbars, meat/BBQ, etc) can be given Farmer's Touch, you have to do a base comparison without it. Why? It would be insane to grow the crops that you can without it, and that changes the calculus considerably. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Or still too early in the game to activate it..... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, psusi said: Why? It would be insane to grow the crops that you can without it, and that changes the calculus considerably. Honestly, I've never used Farmer's Touch. Never needed to, it's easy enough to produce enough food for my bases without it. So any analysis that uses Farmer's Touch would be useless to me. It's all about clarity of analysis. The best analysis will always keep things in a level playing field. The second you start mucking about with buffs for some, but not all, you're just mudding the water. Ideally, there will be an appendix with a modified table including the optional buffs after the initial analysis. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1083998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 14 hours ago, beowulf2010 said: Honestly, I've never used Farmer's Touch. Never needed to, it's easy enough to produce enough food for my bases without it. So any analysis that uses Farmer's Touch would be useless to me Wow. You're using twice as many plants consuming twice as much precious water without it. That's quite a waste. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrindThisGame Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, psusi said: Wow. You're using twice as many plants consuming twice as much precious water without it. That's quite a waste. minus the cost of fertilizer and time. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, GrindThisGame said: minus the cost of fertilizer and time. Fertilizer is pretty darn cheap. And how else are you going to get rid of phosphorite? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 hours ago, psusi said: Wow. You're using twice as many plants consuming twice as much precious water without it. That's quite a waste. Water is either completely free or costs only the sand to polluted dirt conversion so I'm literally wasting nothing since my power comes from hydrogen and natural gas geysers. Is it the most efficient? Nope. Am I using more resources than I need to? Yep. Do I have to farm more fertilizer when I run out of what I've dug up? Nope. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, beowulf2010 said: Water is either completely free or costs only the sand to polluted dirt conversion so I'm literally wasting nothing since my power comes from hydrogen and natural gas geysers. No? The sieve only cleans dirty water. You have to collect the fresh stuff from steam vents and cool it. Well, I guess you get a little extra free water from the lavatories, but it isn't much. 1 hour ago, beowulf2010 said: Is it the most efficient? Nope. Am I using more resources than I need to? Yep. Do I have to farm more fertilizer when I run out of what I've dug up? Nope. Dig up? You can make it with a little polluted water, dirt, and phosphorite, which thanks to drakeos is pretty much unlimited. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, psusi said: No? The sieve only cleans dirty water. You have to collect the fresh stuff from steam vents and cool it. Well, I guess you get a little extra free water from the lavatories, but it isn't much. Dig up? You can make it with a little polluted water, dirt, and phosphorite, which thanks to drakeos is pretty much unlimited. 1) Slush geysers and all the pockets of polluted water that start on the map. 2) I don't ranch. Shrugs. Either way, my defending my way of inefficiently playing the game using what I consider to be completely free methods has nothing to do with my initial point of analytical consistency when comparing data points. Which is what you questioned in the first place. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 1 minute ago, beowulf2010 said: 1) Slush geysers and all the pockets of polluted water that start on the map. I guess if you have a slush geyser. I have yet to see one of those, so I can only get more water from steam vents. 3 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said: 2) I don't ranch. Well that's a little silly. Ranching is a rather significant part of the game that produces good resources, but in this case, I don't ranch regular drakoes either, only the glossy ones for plastic since the polymer press absolutely sucks to get it in comparison. There are enough wild drakeos on the map that I have 100 tons of phosphorite and nothing to do with it other than make fertilizer. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, psusi said: I guess if you have a slush geyser. I have yet to see one of those, so I can only get more water from steam vents. Huh. I get at least one in roughly 2/3 of the maps I play. There's at least two on my current seed. I can get the seed number for ya tonight when I get home if you'd like. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 31 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said: Huh. I get at least one in roughly 2/3 of the maps I play. There's at least two on my current seed. I can get the seed number for ya tonight when I get home if you'd like. Wow. This must be my 4th map and I have yet to find one. My last map didn't seem to have any NG so I thought I was lucky this time with two cool steams right next to the starting area, and an NG just a little way away. I finally found a cluster of gold volcano, chlorine, and hot po2 a ways away. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beowulf2010 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, psusi said: Wow. This must be my 4th map and I have yet to find one. My last map didn't seem to have any NG so I thought I was lucky this time with two cool steams right next to the starting area, and an NG just a little way away. I finally found a cluster of gold volcano, chlorine, and hot po2 a ways away. Occasionally a geyser is overwritten by other POI's but usually you are guaranteed one Natural Gas. The 2 (maybe more, probably not) cool slush seed is 657247453. Have fun! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1084386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilalaunekuh Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Ok blame on my for reopening this old thread But I had a longer break playing ONI and just found this nice spreadsheat to calculate my food needs. => Seems like domesticated pincha pepper is calulated like it would yield "1 pincha pepper" each cycle . If I am still right here a domesticated pincha pepper plant should yield 4 pincha pepper and should grow in 8 cycles => Each plant yield just 0,5 pincha pepper each cycle => Every caclulation involving pincha pepper seems wrong ... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95455-food-efficiency/#findComment-1106643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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