Still waiting for bosses to scale with players in the server

[Korlie]

It's probably the single most terrible thing in this game that Klei designed over half the bosses to only be killed with groups or Wolfgang + cheese. And it's not even awful because oh the bosses are too challenging or oh the bosses are literally impossible without exploiting something, what makes it so absurd is that Klei is handicapping their own game by doing it. There are so many chances when players across this game could have chosen to try fighting one of the bosses, and they didn't even consider it or decided not to, because of how overpowered the bosses are against small groups. So many chances for exciting gameplay, so many chances for new goals. They're meant to be there as something to aspire towards but you basically ignore their very existence 99% of the time because you know you actually cannot kill them without a hundred stars aligning. 

The problem isn't even their health as much as it's their special abilities. The Bee Queen spawns so many grumble bees even from the start that a single player will not be able to fight her without using awkward strategies to negate the bees. It's like that with every one of them. Dragonfly has Lavae, Bee Queen has grumble bees, Fuelweaver has woven shadows and unseen hands, Toadstool has sporecaps, the Shadow Pieces have eachother, the Guardian has his speed and DPS and Klaus has his deer and jumping attack.

How many bosses is that, six, how many other bosses are there, four. So that's 60% of the bosses in the game that are not meant to be killed solo by most characters, the other 40% are all standard first year bosses. So essentially, every mid to end game boss most players will almost never actually fight, with Klaus being on the fringe because he's mid game yet easy to spawn. Despite them being designed to be goals players are supposed to aspire towards to give them more things to do in the game, they go completely ignored most of the time thus their intended purpose is not served at all. And so the mid to end game is significantly more shallow then it could be, because the bosses designed for it are not normally playable.

 

There's the excuse that like "but it's supposed to be a raid boss" no, raid bosses are a feature in massive multiplayer games where joining a group of 30+ people is as easy as joining a clan and waiting for when they go on their next raid or going into a matchmaking system that has been designed to pair you up for the fight. This is not that, this is a survival game with rogue-like gameplay and world design with no automatic matchmaking. It is the exact opposite kind of game for raid bosses, as seen by how much traffic the superbosses are get on average. They are not raid bosses, they are regular bosses with poorly balanced power levels. Also, raid bosses are not put in as a part of the progression system, they are optional side content. The 60% in this game, are a part of both the actual plot progression and player progression and they are the only mid to late game bosses in the entire game there are no other mid to late game bosses to fight instead; they are all that 60%.

And yes I am aware stronkman supreme can kill a lot of them solo. That's because he has the attack output of two people while he is mighty, which counters the problem of being solo against the weaker superbosses. And even then, bosses like Toadstool and the Beequeen still need exploits like fence labyrinths and flingo artillery to bring them down. Because without those exploits countering their gimmicks, you wouldn't be able to kill them without a year of preparation. it would be so much funner and more interesting, if you could kill those bosses simply by gathering a bunch of high level armor, weapons and healing without a year of preparation. Instead of having to split hairs, using exploits and copious amounts of supplies to brute force your way through their absurd power levels.

 

It's just a basic mechanic you put into your game to ensure the content you paid to have made for it, gets played. You make it so the health and powers of the superbosses scale to the amount of players in the fight so that any amount of players can attempt the fight and have a generally equal chance of succeeding if they are prepared and experienced. Because you made a game that can and often will be played solo or with a small group of people and getting a large group coordinated and prepared to fight is extremely rare, so you design a failsafe mechanic so everybody can enjoy your content. Honestly it's lazy that the developers haven't done it, there's nothing cool or "challenging" about leaving it the way they are, it's just tedious and unfun.

And you know they aren't not not not not patching it because it is an UNCOMPROMISING WILDERNESS SURVIVAL GAME because they clearly are capable of compromise when they nerfed Willow and Woodie into the dirt. Or maybe they think having mod support is an excuse to not balance their game because "players can just use mods" well I actually do not want to have to modify the code in the game I paid for in order for certain content in it to be playable without physical pain.

 

So I wanted to finish off my successful caves only run with a Fuelweaver kill for fun since I beat the Guardian with loads of equipment left and so it's just like "Fuelweavers only got 6000 more health and the Guardian dropped like a stone after two minutes of me tapping on him with a tentacle spike so what's the big deal right" so I spawn in the shadowheart and toddle off to the atrium. Oh well I don't have a lazy explorer since I can't actually get one without the console, and I don't have any sanity replenishment because Fridwig won't eat mushrooms but I got loads of equipment and batbats I can totally just facetank him right and there's no way they would make a random item like the lazy explorer mandatory for the final boss fight right. So he wrecks me and I rollback, spawn myself a lazy explorer and I'm like "well okay yeah I died because apparently the lazy explorer is mandatory since he traps you everytime he goes to nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom so this time I should win right" and he wrecks me again so then I go "alright fine the shadows ganking me must be the big problem here" so I spawn in a couple stacks of jerky because Wogfrud won't eat anything that makes her feel better about herself and jerky is the only processed piece of a living creature that gives more then five sanity and I'm like "okay I got sanity replenishment now I can win I have jumped through all the hoops" and he wrecks me again because the sanity drain aura in the place + him + the lazy explorer eats all my sanity up faster then I can jerky it back so I try again and again and again and no matter what I do I can't kill him because even though I can get him down to 2/3 health in less then two minutes, he spams his shield and nomnoms SOOOOO much I barely even have time to actually hit him so even though I was melting him, because his spams his specials so much since they are only meant for groups of players or a stronkman to be fighting him my DPS became 120/10s. Eventually I'm like "fine I'll go godmode so I can finish this for the sake of closure" and godmode didn't work for some reason so I decided to just stop playing for the day. It's almost like fighting that boss solo as not-stronkman without exploits is barely possible and thus the content is barely accessible when if they coded it to scale with the players present it could be a fun fight anybody could enjoy but noooooo we don't make games for fun we make games so people we can't actually see playing can get frustrated at pixels

[Sicko Hog]

tl;dr: i can't facetank the fuelweaver as wigfrid and this makes me angry

(btw the fuelweaver is 100% possible without lazy explorers but tbh i don't see somebody like you listening to reason and i'm sure you'll find something else to complain about)

[MisterPockets]

I agree the game is too challenging, could you add an easy mode? or mechaWes 3,000, with 2xs the strength speed and health ect?

And has all of the characters abilities, is immune to fire, grows in size when full hunger and 4xs the damage, can use all books, when lightning his he gets charged and can eat gears and have a soft cap at 999 hunger, health, sanity, and can use 2 ghost.

And has his own mime beefalo that cant make sounds because its also a mime.

[GenomeSquirrel]

My biggest complaint is that killing the bosses doesn’t give enough reward to all players to bother with it. Maybe if Bee Queen, for example, gave 8 hats it would be easier to convince other players to help. That said, boredom alone motivated me to try lots of things. 

[ProfessorAlpaca]

33 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

My biggest complaint is that killing the bosses doesn’t give enough reward to all players to bother with it. Maybe if Bee Queen, for example, gave 8 hats it would be easier to convince other players to help. That said, boredom alone motivated me to try lots of things. 

It'd be kinda nifty if it worked like bosses in Expert-mode Terraria, where each player gets a treasure bag containing the drops. The players can only see their treasure bag so nobody is getting cheated out of drops.

[CarlZalph]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=764204839

Don't need to wait any longer, it's already done.

Please don't think of using mods as cheating, since this is effectively what you're wanting and so here it is.  Enhance your fun, it's a game after all.

[MondayNight]

From a friend (gg Ryuk) that speedrun solo-ed DF AND Toad in same go on a public server, first autumn, by day 17 - here are some of his other runs:

(Toadstool rush with Maxwell)

plus

(FW rush with Wes)

Both of the above done on pubs.

 

Practice, patience, diligence; and, of course, knowledge. Otherwise is a multiplayer, designed for groups. And it's not even that hard with random parties, try 2x Wigs + Wolf for example against FW - an absurdly easy ("steamroll") fight, provided again people know what to do and when.

[Szczuku]

All of dst bosses are 100% solo-able

"OMG this game is so bad I actually need to make this item or place this bunnyman hutch in order to kill this boss" 

Yea because that's the point of these bosses. If they were another Deerclops or Bearger where you hit them 3 times move away repeat then you'd complain about developers not being creative and adding challanges for muliplayer groups.

[Big Fat Igor]

It's not very hard to kill the bosses alone in DST some are harder that the other (new reign bosses) but they are still possible to be killed by one person and the more people the easier it is and even with the buffed bosses some people survived 3000+ and how? By knowing every single boss very well and making plans like getting Bearger to destroy a lot of trees and let him be killed by Treeguards that spawn and even with bosses that where changed like Dragon Fly people made a lot of ways to kill her like making a walls around yourself or around the ponds.

If you want that the bosses health will be just like in the original Don't Starve here is a mod for that: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=436164138&searchtext=boss

[Auth]

I don’t think you understand.

Let’s take deerclops into account.

In the base game, he’s got 2,000 health.

In DST, He’s got twice that.

By asking for health scaling, that either means you want their health to also grow with the player count, or you want it to grow with the current vanilla max player limit.

That would mean you want deerclops to have 1/32th of the health he has normally. (That’s 125 health)

Or you could say you want it to, say, add another 1000 per player from what the base game has him at.

 

That’s 33,000 max health. Just for deerclops.

Bear in mind not everyone goes up to fight a boss when it shows up. Hell, having 1 person fight deerclops usually ends with less casulties and destruction than 2.

 

or, you could say you want their health to cap at, say, 6. That would mean that you only get 1/6th of the fight, and therefore you only get a deerclops with six hundred sixty six health.

[CaptainChaotica]

15 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=764204839

Don't need to wait any longer, it's already done.

Please don't think of using mods as cheating, since this is effectively what you're wanting and so here it is.  Enhance your fun, it's a game after all.

PRECISELY the mod I was thinking about--thanks for posting it so I don't have to.  I use Automatic Health Adjust all the time and why?  Because I often play alone, and like things to be more proportional.  (shrug)

...Notorious

[spideswine]

17 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=764204839

Don't need to wait any longer, it's already done.

Please don't think of using mods as cheating, since this is effectively what you're wanting and so here it is.  Enhance your fun, it's a game after all.

I'm guessing OP wants something official, so that it would be consistent at least, and will have a dev seal of approval that things are the way they should.

If you take that mod with default values it does terrible, terrible things to the game.

Pretty much anything can be violated easily and efficiently with gunpowder, wolfgang makes any boss implode into itself, bearger can solo bee queen, and a bunch of other stuff I forgot/ am not aware of.

Oh and of course, when new players join the game, it actually makes the boss fights both harder AND less rewarding, as not only you are now gonna have to arm the new guy, get him to join the fight, and hope that he is at least as good at it as you are, you also now need to split the rewards.

Granted you can tweak the values, but for that you need to know what you want and that it's not making the game worse due to you misjudging things, which is a problem.

Anyway, I'd suggest staying away from that mod as the default values are god awful and figuring out what values are best is problematic(from my experience the experienced players would stay far away from that mod even in a solo environment, and the less experienced players tend to severely overestimate the advantage more players give(Hell even I did that when I started playing))

21 hours ago, Korlie said:

 it would be so much funner and more interesting, if you could kill those bosses simply by gathering a bunch of high level armor, weapons and healing without a year of preparation. Instead of having to split hairs, using exploits and copious amounts of supplies to brute force your way through their absurd power levels.

How the **** is using elaborate boss specific setups brute force whereas just throwing armor+weapons+healing isn't?

Hell I'd say throwing resources at something until it dies is pretty much the definition of brute force as far as DST is concerned, and due to that I can't possibly imagine how it's more fun than having boss specific tactics.

 

[Sinister_Fang]

Even if it is possible to solo them, it literally takes days (ingame) to actually fight them, if you're not using Wolfgang/Wigfrid or some kind of cheese that is. I'm surprised so many people are against a scaling mechanic to be honest. It makes me wonder how many people have actually fought these "raid" bosses without cheese or using Wolfgang/Wigfrid.

[Whoneedspacee]

35 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Even if it is possible to solo them, it literally takes days (ingame) to actually fight them, if you're not using Wolfgang/Wigfrid or some kind of cheese that is. I'm surprised so many people are against a scaling mechanic to be honest. It makes me wonder how many people have actually fought these "raid" bosses without cheese or using Wolfgang/Wigfrid.

 

2 hours ago, spideswine said:

I'm guessing OP wants something official, so that it would be consistent at least, and will have a dev seal of approval that things are the way they should.

If you take that mod with default values it does terrible, terrible things to the game.

Pretty much anything can be violated easily and efficiently with gunpowder, wolfgang makes any boss implode into itself, bearger can solo bee queen, and a bunch of other stuff I forgot/ am not aware of.

Oh and of course, when new players join the game, it actually makes the boss fights both harder AND less rewarding, as not only you are now gonna have to arm the new guy, get him to join the fight, and hope that he is at least as good at it as you are, you also now need to split the rewards.

Granted you can tweak the values, but for that you need to know what you want and that it's not making the game worse due to you misjudging things, which is a problem.

Anyway, I'd suggest staying away from that mod as the default values are god awful and figuring out what values are best is problematic(from my experience the experienced players would stay far away from that mod even in a solo environment, and the less experienced players tend to severely overestimate the advantage more players give(Hell even I did that when I started playing))

How the **** is using elaborate boss specific setups brute force whereas just throwing armor+weapons+healing isn't?

Hell I'd say throwing resources at something until it dies is pretty much the definition of brute force as far as DST is concerned, and due to that I can't possibly imagine how it's more fun than having boss specific tactics.

 

Oh jeez you two, having to use actual strategies and get gear.

Having more players is definitely easier than one and implying it’s more trouble to equip a player than just fight it alone is stupid, it’s much easier to equip them.

Wolfgang is identical to other characters except for damage and some when mighty, anything he can do anyone else can 99% of the time do, it just takes more time (not days maybe a day more).

There’s no need for a scaling mechanic because the raid bosses functions simply wouldn’t work with less health and would be too easy, they’re much more fun as they are now. Also pub server bossing would be annoying since the bosses would have a ****ton of health and actually getting someone to help you is near impossible..

[spideswine]

3 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Oh jeez you two, having to use actual strategies and get gear.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

I'm also not sure why you refer to us as if we have the same opinion, as it doesn't seem to be the case.

3 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Having more players is definitely easier than one and implying it’s more trouble to equip a player than just fight it alone is stupid, it’s much easier to equip them.

I was specifically talking about the health scaling mod.(admittedly even in the base game there are some specific bosses where I'd rather go alone than with inexperienced players, but that's beside the point)

3 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Wolfgang is identical to other characters except for damage and some when mighty, anything he can do anyone else can 99% of the time do, it just takes more time (not days maybe a day more).

First of all wolfgang also has a speedboost, which can meaningfully change certain fights(like bee queen), on top of that the damage boost can be VERY meaningful on anything with a regeneration effect, it is absolutely critical for the dfly speedruns to prevent yourself from getting swarmed with lavae(also due to enrages being more or less timed there as well, and of course due to the stun threshold), it is also of particular value against fuelweaver(also bear in mind that unless you're particularly proficient in it, fuelweaver is a very expensive boss to solo, so halving the fight duration is great there), as generally he will regen some health.

And yeah in particularly long fights(like toadstool) it can shave off more than a day of the fight.

3 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

There’s no need for a scaling mechanic because the raid bosses functions simply wouldn’t work with less health and would be too easy, they’re much more fun as they are now. Also pub server bossing would be annoying since the bosses would have a ****ton of health and actually getting someone to help you is near impossible..

I agree for the most part, especially since scaling would make things inconsistent(such as the pubs example), but toadstool solo on not wolfgang takes ages, so maybe he could use some sort of a scaling mechanic, but it's probably not worth the effort.

[Sinister_Fang]

13 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Having more players is definitely easier than one and implying it’s more trouble to equip a player than just fight it alone is stupid, it’s much easier to equip them.

That is, assuming you even have another player to give equipment to...

13 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Wolfgang is identical to other characters except for damage and some when mighty, anything he can do anyone else can 99% of the time do, it just takes more time (not days maybe a day more).

Due to his 2x damage boost, he's as effective as 2 normal characters at once. Solo boss fights with him are usually a reasonable time, but for anyone else it gets pretty tedious.

13 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

There’s no need for a scaling mechanic because the raid bosses functions simply wouldn’t work with less health and would be too easy,

I personally disagree. The balance is a bit of a joke in my opinion. With too few people the fights take forever, but with too many the fights end up being a joke. A scaling mechanic would help to keep the balance a bit more consistent. It would also make it so cheese strategies aren't nearly mandatory for solo fights.

13 hours ago, Whoneedspacee said:

Also pub server bossing would be annoying since the bosses would have a ****ton of health and actually getting someone to help you is near impossible..

It depends on how it's implemented. Personally, I was thinking of a system where a boss starts with a set amount of health, and for each additional player attacking it, it gets additional health. This would mean that scaling would be based off of players participating instead of current player count on the server.

For example: Deerclops could start with a base of 2000 health (just like the singeplayer version), but if a second person joined in then it would add 2000 more for a total of 4000 health. If a third person joined in then it would be another 2000 health for a total of 6000. So for each player to carry their own weight in the fight they would have to deal about 2000 damage each. With the fixed amount of health in the current game the more players you have means the less damage each player needs to contribute. So the more people you have, the easier the fight becomes. A scaling mechanic like this (on paper at least) would keep the fight fairly balanced no mater how many people you'd have participating.

[Auth]

13 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Deerclops could start with a base of 2000 health (just like the singeplayer version), but if a second person joined in then it would add 2000 more for a total of 4000 health. If a third person joined in then it would be another 2000 health for a total of 6000. So for each player to carry their own weight in the fight they would have to deal about 2000 damage each. With the fixed amount of health in the current game the more players you have means the less damage each player needs to contribute. So the more people you have, the easier the fight becomes. A scaling mechanic like this (on paper at least) would keep the fight fairly balanced no mater how many people you'd have participating.

You assume you expect everyone to deal a fair amount and you structure this as if people are taking turns.  You’re askig for a deerclops with a total possible 33,000 HP and you want everyone in the server to do it at the exact same time.

Everyone, stop taking the game and the numbers into account. Think of the people.

 

Not everyone goes off to join a fight, not everyone can take deerclops on even in a group, not everyone has the same weapons and damage output, not everyone is the same. So don’t think that boss fights should be a time to cuddle up to your buddies. They aren’t meant to be taken on alone, but they also aren’t meant to have every slot on the server working in unison.

Take toadstool for example, he literally was unbalanced because he wasnt remotely concievable possible to be beaten with just yourself, you and a buddy, even a full server of six was hardly possible. And they changed him for that. These fights take memorization and skill and they do take a long time alone and because they aren’t designed and never were designed to cater specifically to you doing it alone. However, there’s nothing stopping you. You can try. If you want to. The game is meant to promote of a feeling of “The odds are against you from the start and throughout” not “Yea after a while you can do everything I guess”

[Mario384]

I mean, if you really wanted to fix the issue of health scaling, you could just base it off how many players are near the boss instead of the number of players on the server, so you get realistic HP values.  I like DST's current system, though I wish some extra implementations were added if there were more players, such as stronger, unique attacks and such, even for the likes of the giants.  Would make it more interesting, you know?  I thought Yuleclop's laser attack was really cool and actually required you to perform a different dodging technique than just running away (assuming you weren't speed-boosted) by going on a slant, I really think things like that would spice up boss fights.  Fuelweaver also had similar mechanics, which is why he's one of my favorite boss fights.

[Sinister_Fang]

8 hours ago, Auth said:

You assume you expect everyone to deal a fair amount and you structure this as if people are taking turns.  You’re askig for a deerclops with a total possible 33,000 HP and you want everyone in the server to do it at the exact same time.

Everyone, stop taking the game and the numbers into account. Think of the people.

 

Not everyone goes off to join a fight, not everyone can take deerclops on even in a group, not everyone has the same weapons and damage output, not everyone is the same. So don’t think that boss fights should be a time to cuddle up to your buddies. They aren’t meant to be taken on alone, but they also aren’t meant to have every slot on the server working in unison.

I'm not sure you understood what I meant. I'm NOT basing it off of the number of players in the server. That's a bad way of going about it in my opinion.

Looking back at my post though, I guess I could have worded my post a bit better. By "joined in" I meant "started attacking". The scaling mechanic would be based off of the number of players participating in the fight and not total amount of players in the server. So you could have 6 people in the server, but only 3 of them actually attacking Deerclops. So Deerclops would have a total of 6000 health, not 12000 health.

[MondayNight]

The more I think about this supposed scaling thing the more I realize it actually promotes solo playing.. a multiplayer. Because, as previous posters underlined, people are not the same and that applies to their actions, approaches (obviously): you may think 3 people will deal their fair share of 2k hp or so on a 6k scaled up Deerclops, but most of times that's not the case. One player, scared, could be just running around Deer not actually dealing damage (or barely doing it), while another will attempt to tank and die in the process; then you have to deal with all said mess provided you are not the first 2 ones. Frankly this proposition looks really messy on the gameplay, and - again - actually promotes solo playing (easier/non-hazardous in given context, more so with random people in pubs).

[Whoneedspacee]

2 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

The more I think about this supposed scaling thing the more I realize it actually promotes solo playing.. a multiplayer. Because, as previous posters underlined, people are not the same and that applies to their actions, approaches (obviously): you may think 3 people will deal their fair share of 2k hp or so on a 6k scaled up Deerclops, but most of times that's not the case. One player, scared, could be just running around Deer not actually dealing damage (or barely doing it), while another will attempt to tank and die in the process; then you have to deal with all said mess provided you are not the first 2 ones. Frankly this proposition looks really messy on the gameplay, and - again - actually promotes solo playing (easier/non-hazardous in given context, more so with random people in pubs).

It’s just gonna be goddamn trolling and resource waste when people run up and attack bosses I’m fighting to give them extra health and then run away.

There’s no purpose for this mechanic because the bosses are fine as they are unless you cheese them, play how you want to play.

[csc_unit]

And also, if a player has beaten a particular boss multiple times, he's considerate better so the specific boss health should be scaled consequently to the players experiences. Further more, if players have very good armors and weapons, the bosses should also have their health scaled up so the fight is always the same difficulty what ever the parameter we change.

...

EDIT: This is a sarcastic message hyperbolically depicting pro-scaling bosses health arguments

[Auth]

1 hour ago, csc_unit said:

And also, if a player has beaten a particular boss multiple times, he's considerate better so the specific boss health should be scaled consequently to the players experiences. Further more, if players have very good armors and weapons, the bosses should also have their health scaled up so the fight is always the same difficulty what ever the parameter we change.

...

This is one of the most unfair things I've read regarding this topic.

Again, think of everyone's favorite, deerclops.

You borderline need to kill him every year - whether it be for the eyebrella, shootius, hell, even the statue, or maybe you just don't want him stomping around destroying things, he's a yearly recurring threat that needs to be disposed of, even if it's just simply getting nature to kill him or just luring him very far away.

But the point is, you kill him every year, basically. Once you get the game down pretty well, anywho. Obviously this doesn't apply to a noob who's never done it.

So, by this, that means that deerclops will be infinitely scaling health REGARDLESS of the world you're in. Fantastic.

 

Now imagine you're on a pub. You've got, say, 120 hours, not bad. You know how to make meatballs and you've got a semi-reliable food generation.

Winter rolls around. Someone with 4000 hours joins.

Deerclops, looking for experienced players, goes for, fair and justly, the person that obviously can handle him.

So now you have a 32176418924 HP(or imagine not such a silly number for the sake of presentation) deerclops stomping around. This completely sucks any life from the fight - there's no longer any "risk" or "challenge" it's now more of "run away" or "smack the pinata for 20 days"

 

This mechanic is almost impossible to balance. And I always thought of DST like this:

You aren't intended to play alone. You are meant to play with multiple people. However, you can play alone, and if you chose to do so, you must be willing to accept the additional challenge that comes along with that. There's always the base game. The game is not meant to be "fair", and it never truly was. If DS and DST were focused around being 100% fair, there wouldn't be hitstun, wildfires, base destroying giants, etc. So asking for the game to bend over backwards to cater to you playing it the way that was not intended is really a silly debate to look at from any angle.

 

And at the end of the day, it honestly seems that throughout the entire community, less people want health scaling than people that don't, or don't care. So, if you really want scaled bosses, there's mods for it. There's nothing stopping you from hosting or joining a server with it on. 

[Sinister_Fang]

7 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

The more I think about this supposed scaling thing the more I realize it actually promotes solo playing.. a multiplayer.

That's not really anything new though. A lot of people play solo.

7 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

Because, as previous posters underlined, people are not the same and that applies to their actions, approaches (obviously): you may think 3 people will deal their fair share of 2k hp or so on a 6k scaled up Deerclops, but most of times that's not the case. One player, scared, could be just running around Deer not actually dealing damage (or barely doing it), while another will attempt to tank and die in the process; then you have to deal with all said mess provided you are not the first 2 ones.

Yeah, it kinda makes a mess like that, but that's to be expected. If you're afraid of Deerclops and run around barely doing any damage in singleplayer... then you'll likely die. If you try tanking Deerclops, you're likely gonna die as well. That's just what happens to inexperienced players, be it singleplayer or multiplayer. But if all 3 of them are experienced, then with the fixed amount of health Deerclops dies in no time at all. Because the more people you have, the less damage each one needs to contribute.

8 hours ago, xxVERSUSxy said:

actually promotes solo playing (easier/non-hazardous in given context, more so with random people in pubs).

Random people coming in and just griefing promotes solo play already. I don't see why this is a problem when there's quite a few people who play solo anyhow. A scaling mechanic would just mean you could fight the bosses solo without having to rely on cheese and/or Wolfgang.

1 hour ago, Auth said:

You aren't intended to play alone. You are meant to play with multiple people. However, you can play alone, and if you chose to do so, you must be willing to accept the additional challenge that comes along with that.

Well, the problem with that is it works in reverse. Get too many people, and the bosses become too easy. A scaling mechanic would help to keep the difficulty a little more consistent.

[csc_unit]

1 hour ago, Auth said:

You aren't intended to play alone. You are meant to play with multiple people. However, you can play alone, and if you chose to do so, you must be willing to accept the additional challenge that comes along with that. There's always the base game. The game is not meant to be "fair"

Lol, agree.

My precedent post was highly sarcastic. Some bosses are very hard without friends and it is like this in a lot of games. Ever seen a WoW big boss fight? There is like 100 players on them ; you can't do it alone. That is just normal that the fight get easier with number. Idk whats wrong with that?! Same as when you equip with better equipment, the fight gets easier. Its just logic.

If you can't beat the boss alone, well it is a skill and technic related, because they are all soloable. 

21 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

you could fight the bosses solo without having to rely on cheese

Whats a cheese? Is 2 lureplants on Klaus a cheese? maybe yeah. Is building 25 Bunnymen houses around the Bee Queen a cheese? I'm pretty sure you can find at least one technical way that isn't cheesing the game for fighting every bosses .