New geysers are awful

[Kasuha]

On 3/17/2018 at 9:21 PM, Technoincubus said:

Ok I tried it and It got worse. Far worse.

The problem is not that geysers were active 20-50% of the time and now 50-75% of the time, but the insanely unbearably long periods. Every 200 cycles, every 400 cycles, every 150 cycles.

 

It can be smoothed if you calculate the average flow, use a valve to limit the flow to the average value, and large enough buffer to cover the dry periods.

(205.8 * 174 / 626) * 152.7 / 215.7 = 40.49

40.49 * (215.7 - 152.7) * 600 = 1530522

This geyser has average output of 40.5 g/s and you need storage for 1.53 tons of gas to cover the dry period sustaining that supply. Assuming a room at 20 kg/tile when full and at least 125 g/tile when empty (to keep gas pump emptying it at maximum efficiency even near the end of draining), you need 77 tiles. A 9x9, 8x10, or 7x11 room fits the requirement. That's not even that big.

[Guest]

I don't think you need storage per se if the room containing the geyser is large enough. They increased the max gas pressure for the NG geyser to 5kg/tile, and you'll be consuming probably enough if you are roughly matching average output to average consumption.

[BlueLance]

My storage is usually 96 tiles, so thats plenty.

Also I must be calculating these numbers wrong cuz I counted that as outputting about 5240kg Well a bit more than that... over the entire course of its 152.7 cycle life span? or Am I just missing the point here

[Kasuha]

3 minutes ago, turbonl64 said:

I don't think you need storage per se if the room containing the geyser is large enough. They increased the max gas pressure for the NG geyser to 5kg/tile, and you'll be consuming probably enough if you are roughly matching average output to average consumption.

5 kg/tile is not that much, you need the room to be four times bigger (twice in each direction, i.e. 18x18 instead of 9x9) to store enough gas. But you'll save some power as you won't need to pump the gas twice. About 10 W over the dry period, or 3 W over whole cycle.

5 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Also I must be calculating these numbers wrong cuz I counted that as outputting about 5240kg Well a bit more than that... over the entire course of its 152.7 cycle life span? or Am I just missing the point here

It's 5241 kg, but you draw steady 40.5 g/s from that, you only need to store what's left when the dry period begins.

[BlueLance]

Ok, thats fine, I was genuinely worried that I have been miscounting the amount of gas by a large margin

I use a single pump to pump the gas to my base and use a bridge to feed my generators directly, whilst storing any excess in my tank, I never thought of using a valve or automation to limit my pump during the periods where it has almost sucked a room dry. So thank you for those pointers.

[BT_20]

Why would you use a high pressure vent that’s a huge waste of space and power you could easily use a super compressor or a liquid saturated vent.

[Kasuha]

29 minutes ago, BT_20 said:

Why would you use a high pressure vent that’s a huge waste of space and power you could easily use a super compressor or a liquid saturated vent.

Certainly not waste of power, you need to use a pump regardless what exploit you use to compress the gas. And regarding space, the map is large enough for most purposes. But if you like it better, of course you can store all the gas in single tile.

[BT_20]

@Kasuha you’re method takes two pumps right?

[Kasuha]

4 minutes ago, BT_20 said:

@Kasuha you’re method takes two pumps right?

Well, liquid saturated vent uses them too.

Also, I don't consider 10 W of extra power waste enough to resort to exploits.

[FullMetalArthur]

I started to play ONI when the Tubular upgrade was out. Just when I had enough resources to get a transit tube, the occupational upgrades kicked in. By that time, in my map I havent uncovered a natural gas geyser yet and was really really strugling to power my colony. After I gave up on that colony i made a second one which now I have on cycle 300 and havent even start to work on setting up my steam power plant which I need to hurry because my natural gas geyser probably will stop working. I use in my colony nearly 7 kw of power. I have 21 dupes and is really big. Natural gas geyser provides my colony with at least 30-40% of power. Which means my current seed map will be broken after patch. I have never stopped struggling with other things like water and polluter water. Never had problems with oxygen and food though,

[Kasuha]

By the way, it's also possible to use simple pipe buffer to store the extra gas, too. A 40x40 square tiled with pipe will do the trick. A bit extensive, but certainly no unnecessary power draw.

[Soulwind]

Seems like an awful lot of work, setup, and hassle for 2/3 of a generator.

[goboking]

11 hours ago, cpy said:

We need some sort of pressurized gas tanks storage or something.

Yes please.  Not that we can't store it with the tools already provided in game, but blocks of tiles don't make for the most aesthetically pleasing or space efficient solutions.

[FullMetalArthur]

I think they are nerfing geysers because they are adding a lot more geysers to the map. I just want to know what will happen to old maps where I only have 3-4 geysers in total. Water is not enough with just and Ive converted all polluted water into clean water. Geysers are a fountain of resources. But the main upgrade is the rancher. I use 3 electrolizers and plus a oil factory which uses around 80% of the water my geyser. If that stops working for 100 cycles im screwed XD

[BlueLance]

8 hours ago, FullMetalArthur said:

I think they are nerfing geysers because they are adding a lot more geysers to the map. I just want to know what will happen to old maps where I only have 3-4 geysers in total. Water is not enough with just and Ive converted all polluted water into clean water. Geysers are a fountain of resources. But the main upgrade is the rancher. I use 3 electrolizers and plus a oil factory which uses around 80% of the water my geyser. If that stops working for 100 cycles im screwed XD

I assume using the oil on the bottom isnt exactly an option? some of those pockets contain several tiles per tile worth of oil. 

I can't really help with older bases since on older ones I only used electrolyzers and meal wood haha

[WhatTheDuck]

1 hour ago, BlueLance said:

I assume using the oil on the bottom isnt exactly an option? some of those pockets contain several tiles per tile worth of oil. 

I can't really help with older bases since on older ones I only used electrolyzers and meal wood haha

I never used petroleum for power generation but the math seems ok.

 

Oil -> Pump (-240W) -> Oil Refinery (-480W + Dupe) -> 2x Petroleum Generator (3333W because no 100% uptime) + Natural Gas Generator (800W)

= 582,5 CO2, 1317,5 pH2O and 3413W 

 

I think the main reason why nearly everyone prefer natural gas is the one dupe you have to waste to work fulltime at the refinery.

 

[TheScaryOne]

Really needs to be unmanned, or have some kind of remote console that a dupe can use to run it. It's hot as hell, outputs Nat Gas and 75* Petro regardless of incoming crude temp. It basically requires an exosuit slave.

[FullMetalArthur]

Yeah. I have 2 refineries and transit tunes really close to them. But still soend more than I produce. Ecen addind the extra narural gas. Im cooling water with 3 aquatuners and thats a whooping 3.6 kw

[cpy]

You can probably store it as a LNG. Anyway for me new geysers suck and are kinda good at the same time. I love how varied everything is, but I hate that I got shortchanged for water a LOT! Just give me 50-100kg/s water geyser and we're cool with the rest. I don't care how random other things are, just give me water please?

Is there a mod for water geyser to increase output rate like 10x? My water budget is so low that even active periods are basically dry times where I burn through my reserves of ice and polluted water from map.

[Oozinator]

58 minutes ago, cpy said:

You can probably store it as a LNG. Anyway for me new geysers suck and are kinda good at the same time. I love how varied everything is, but I hate that I got shortchanged for water a LOT! Just give me 50-100kg/s water geyser and we're cool with the rest. I don't care how random other things are, just give me water please?

Is there a mod for water geyser to increase output rate like 10x? My water budget is so low that even active periods are basically dry times where I burn through my reserves of ice and polluted water from map.

One other thing: In my actual map, i didn't destroy any natural grown plant and run my base on pepper bread now.
I did only build 5 farm pots at gamestart(deconstructed). I use not one single built farmtile. Enough food for perhaps 15 dupes. Me running the base with 5dupes and 1-2 still idle.. No showers, no tables, eating on the ground in a deep frozen storage room with sterile atmo, but pepper bread makes them happy..

[cpy]

3 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

One other thing: In my actual map, i didn't destroy any natural grown plant and run my base on pepper bread now.
I did only build 5 farm pots at gamestart(deconstructed). I use not one single built farmtile. Enough food for perhaps 15 dupes. Me running the base with 5dupes and 1-2 still idle..

Food is not a problem for me, I use only 10% rate for my bristles because I turn off lights, my sleet farm also have timed water supply to allow quick harvest and then nothing.
Oxygen and toilets seems to be doing a lot of water damage for me. I also use free wild food, I have plenty of free PPP. If only we could replant and move wild plants
Not making more wild plants but literally replanting and moving them with piece of their base.

[Oozinator]

Just now, cpy said:

Food is not a problem for me, I use only 10% rate for my bristles because I turn off lights, my sleet farm also have timed water supply to allow quick harvest and then nothing.
Oxygen and toilets seems to be doing a lot of water damage for me. I also use free wild food, I have plenty of free PPP.

Cook oil, it will solve your problems.
Store NG in an overpressure chamber. Run NG Gens - water sieve for the win.
Dig out polluted water pockets - water sieve (till NG system is up), spam aerodizers there, for free O²

[cpy]

1 minute ago, Oozinator said:

Cook oil, it will solve your problems.
Store NG in an overpressure chamber. Run NG Gens - water sieve for the win.
Dig out polluted water pockets - water sieve (till NG system is up), spam aerodizers there, for free O²

 

Ok now you're getting out of control. Google search for aerodizer literally gave me 0 results. Come on man, I'm just trying to play "simple" space base survival game

[BlueLance]

@cpy How many cycles do you usually get to? I really don't know/understand how you run out of water when;

1. There are always two steam geysers.
2. There is always one natural gas geyser which gives polluted water when used, 2 if your lucky.
3. Ice, Snow, Polluted Ice in the Ice Biomes.
4. A heck of a lot of Polluted water in the Slime Biome.
5. A heck of a lot of Oil, which can either be cooked straight to natural gas (A bit of effort) or turned into petroleum which gives you polluted water and natural gas which in turn gives you polluted water.
6. Toilets give you a small amount of extra water but really shouldn't be mentioned....
7. Out of all the extra geysers in the world I guarantee at least 1 will give you another source of water whether it be through natural gas, actual water, steam, slush etc

How many dupes do you usually run, you worry that oxygen and toilets are the two biggest consumers? I currently don't go above 16 but that was due to me not going out of comfort zones and using things like natural gas.

[Oozinator]

19 minutes ago, cpy said:

Ok now you're getting out of control. Google search for aerodizer literally gave me 0 results. Come on man, I'm just trying to play "simple" space base survival game

Sry , me bad rusty english ^^
Deodorizers, those things cleaning air with sand