Parusoid Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 So now with the new job system it seems like you need at least one dupe per activity (to take advantage of the bonuses). In comparision to old system, my personal preference was to have no more than 8 dupes since all of them could do all of the task with mostly the same effectivnes. And it was the amount of dupes that i was able to micromanage and keep them alive (i.e food-wise) Do you think that with new system we would need more dupes to be effective? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkunkMaster Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I used to have around 10 dupes. Now i have atleast 20, and i want more.... can't wait for the logging system to be shut of, oh the joy of 30'ish dupes Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yes, absolutely - especially with the way miners work - having only 1 dupe able to mine abyssalite is going to be very frustrating. Previously I was using 8-12 dupes, I am planning on 20 in my current beta branch game. There does seem to be an upper limit, or a sweet spot though, as you are limited by how many dupes can be assigned to each job. I'm not sure there will be any benefit in recruiting more dupes once all the job slots are filled (not even quite all, because scientist will be equally useless once all research is complete) I'm thinking somewhere around 20-24 is going to be about where I want to be, but a lot more testing will be needed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hechicera Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I am doing better with 10-14 still. Up from 8-12, but not by much. I find I am being pickier about what dupes I'll take. That may relax as I get more used to it. I am not past mid-game yet on any map, buy have stabilized two maps with that number post patch. That number is probably slowing my explore speed. I am trying to micro the dupes in job swaps and with food. Also need more runs to know how it goes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I dno, I usually run 16 dupes, I feel it might be too many now, especially if only 3 can use exosuits well enough. Its gonna be interesting. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I used to accept every dupe and it seems to be working pretty well in the new patch. The only issue is that I am too reliant on fried mush. There aren't enough bristle blossoms to feed them grissle berries in the beginning and it takes much longer to grow the farm to be able to feed everyone. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SackMaggie Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I always play with 4 dupes but now I think "more is better" Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Zarquan said: I used to accept every dupe and it seems to be working pretty well in the new patch. The only issue is that I am too reliant on fried mush. There aren't enough bristle blossoms to feed them grissle berries in the beginning and it takes much longer to grow the farm to be able to feed everyone. From my experience you can get away with meallice and later liceloaf for quite a long time. Food is just one of the stress factors, so as long as your base is tidy, you have enough oxy and some decor you can prolong the mealwood phase quite a bit until you have enough berries. On topic: Absolutely yes. You need way more dupes now. In my previous runs I rarely got over 6 dupes, rushed exosuits and was able to explore the whole map and build high tech, sustainable bases. I don't think that is possible anymore if you want to take on the new job specialisations. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 True, but you want to start growing brissle blossoms ASAP to start producing seeds. On tech, I did a farm rush with plumbing and interior decor so I could get hydroponic farm tiles immediately. Every time they eat grissle berries, their stress goes down because it is a decadent meal My hope is to switch to berry sludge ASAP. Then I can try my hand again at puft herding and get a renewable mushroom farm going to supplement. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 46 minutes ago, Zarquan said: Then I can try my hand again at puft herding and get a renewable mushroom farm going to supplement. Practically speaking, is that necessary? By the time you're refining plastic your dupes' expectations will have evolved past mushrooms. I guess you can feed the unskilled masses with them, but outside of that I'm not sure it's worth the effort to set up slime farms anymore. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej75 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I do not know what exactly is upcoming, but using some "universal" dupes can give a game better potential of replayability. E.g Scientist, Cook + 4 universal, or Healer + 5 universal dupes. Things may become more interesting now. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vim Razz Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I have a little problem where I need to have one of each dupe (for reasons), so my colonies tend to end up with around 35-40 (depending on how many times I accidentally pick one that I already have). I'm still in the process of figuring out how to make that work smoothly under the new system, but so far it feels like the game now actively penalizes you for running more than about 15-20 dupes, due to the hard limits on job specialization slots. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I have been accepting every duplicant. There will always be low level dupes in my colony. My goal is to create a very large sustainable base in the new patch. Food appears to be the main limiting factor. Growing mushrooms would increase the cap on total number of dupes I can have by increasing the number of kcals/cycle. The way I see it, the pufts provide free extra food through the mushrooms, so I see no reason not to grow them. My main plan is to use morbs for oxygen. I will liquefy the oxygen to clean it, then heat it back up to oxygenate my base (heat transfer from polluted oxygen to oxygen). I will then use natural gas and petroleum and steam geysers to produce as much water as possible to grow food. Then I will capture as many pufts as I can and overpressurize their chamber, which will let me produce slime in the most efficient way possible. I can make 91.527 kcal/cycle in berry sludge from the two steam geysers. I believe berry sludge is the most water efficient food in the game. I am thinking of boiling polluted water to make dirt and grow some supplementary meal lice (which I will serve uncooked). I will then take all the pufts I can get. Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how much polluted water I will get to use for farming, since I intend to run fertilizer syntesizers to generate more power, so I can't really factor it in very well. I haven't decided to go through with this yet though. I don't know the exact numbers on puft slime production, but according to the wiki, a puft produces 175 g/s of slime from polluted oxygen. That's 105 kg/cycle. When used as fertilizer, it translates to 9,800 extra kcal per puft captured. I also intend to use slicksters to produce crude oil, which will also produce extra water through natural gas and petroleum power generation. I don't think oil wells are worth it unless you can skip the oil refinery and boil the petroleum in a sustainable way (no magma unless you can keep it hot) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clickrush Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Zarquan said: I don't think oil wells are worth it unless you can skip the oil refinery and boil the petroleum in a sustainable way (no magma unless you can keep it hot) They are in terms of power, but not water at first glance. 2 wells produces enough oil for 1 generator. The water consumed is 2kg for 2 wells and the generator has a 1.25kg polluted water output. However this doesn't include the fact that the whole chain will produce additional natural gas and thus polluted water. The addional CO2 converts into more oil and then into more CO2 and polluted water. If you produce enough oil (via slicksters and 2 wells) you can run 3 petroleum generators, one additional gas generator from the refinery nat gas output and then some more from the oil well nat gas outputs. It eventually produces more polluted water than it consumes water (raw estimation). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, clickrush said: They [oil wells] are in terms of power, but not water at first glance. 2 wells produces enough oil for 1 generator. The water consumed is 2kg for 2 wells and the generator has a 1.25kg polluted water output. However this doesn't include the fact that the whole chain will produce additional natural gas and thus polluted water. The addional CO2 converts into more oil and then into more CO2 and polluted water. If you produce enough oil (via slicksters and 2 wells) you can run 3 petroleum generators, one additional gas generator from the refinery nat gas output and then some more from the oil well nat gas outputs. It eventually produces produces more polluted water than it consumes water. Assuming you aren't already capped on slicksters of course. I don't think that is an issue for me anymore. With the tepidizer bug, I would boil all my natural gas and then use the it in natural gas generators. That resulted in a positive feedback loop where the only limiting factor is slicksters, so I was always capped on slicksters. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olimar Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, BlueLance said: I dno, I usually run 16 dupes, I feel it might be too many now, especially if only 3 can use exosuits well enough. Its gonna be interesting. Trying to glean information from your message. Is there a large penalty for those who aren't in a job or have a skill for exosuits? Is it not practical to have more than 3 now? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Olimar said: Trying to glean information from your message. Is there a large penalty for those who aren't in a job or have a skill for exosuits? Is it not practical to have more than 3 now? The issue is that almost any dupe will be far too slow in an exosuit because athletics doesn't train anymore and exosuits decrease athletics. Now, you have to be a high level professional to use an exosuits without being obscenely slow because one of the professions removes the exosuit athletics debuff. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemie Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Zarquan said: The issue is that almost any dupe will be far too slow in an exosuit because athletics doesn't train anymore and exosuits decrease athletics. Now, you have to be a high level professional to use an exosuits without being obscenely slow because one of the professions removes the exosuit athletics debuff. and you only get 3 max for the exo suit job so all other dups are -6 athletics which means they aint going anywhere in that shiny new suit. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, chemie said: and you only get 3 max for the exo suit job so all other dups are -6 athletics which means they aint going anywhere in that shiny new suit. It's faster and easier to just build a large hospital to treat the near death dupes than having them use exosuits. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhailRaptor Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 The thing is that under the old system, if you didn't begin to force some roles onto your Dupes then the growth rate of your base would decline due to how the AI handled task assignment. Even with all Super Dupes, you'd start to hit a barrier based on a combination of population and base size, beyond which you will have Dupes running back and forth, doing a single task at a location, then running back off to the opposite end of the base to do another single task, then another down in your basement, then another... I tended to reach around 8 to 12 Dupes before I reach this point. I'm still hitting the stumbling block of designing a good "blueprint" for a NatGas/FertSynth power loop at the same time that I'm trying to make a cooling system work so that I can actually pursue Berries or Wheat so I can actually accept more Dupes. Then a new update would come out and I'd start a new colony. I'm not using the preview branch, so I can only speculate about that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej75 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 hours ago, PhailRaptor said: The thing is that under the old system (...) I cannot agree with you more. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86929-is-it-time-to-reconsider-amount-of-dupes-in-base/#findComment-997951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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