Endgame needed pleeeease :)

[NckBuLLetZZ]

After the automation update.......I still have all the same bummer reasons that I lose the will to play at about 100 cycles. I make the base fully sustainable (with no addition from the automation upgrade), and I have no "push" to move forward. 

I thought the interesting chance of implementing an and game goal MIGHT be coming with refined metals. It's fun to create them.....but you are just creating them for the sake of creating them: and that's when I get bored. I think a perfect endgame option is the dupes building a "space station" to get home. It would be manufacturing a space ship to get them out, but it would require a LOT of resources. Maybe even pumped in clean oxygen....tons of refined gold, copper, tungsten.... packages of stored food..... an extra and maybe difficult research tree for the ship......like......3000 kg of clean O2, kilograms upon kilograms of refined metals......it would be fun!!!

THIS would provide me with he will to win. ANNNNND replayability would be trough the roof! The strategy to gain said materials would be COMPLETELY different depending on how the world rendered. And I don't know about everyone else, but I would be utterly addicted, lol. I would restart over and over and over again, because even after you win, the strategy and experience is different EVERY time! 

Maybe the best part- it would remain "optional" . If you like the design of the game with going as many cycles as possible with no goal in mind.....cool deal! Go right ahead! Nothing is forcing you into my "endgame" idea. 

 

Anyone else missing that from this game? (which is easily one of my favorites......and soooo close to perfection)

[NurdRage]

So far Klei has had a slow rollout with the lore. Probably because the game is unfinished and they don't want to spoil the ending. We're getting glimpses of it when we explore the ruins.

Whatever ending we do have will likely tie into the history of what happened before. Why are they in an asteroid? Why are the ruins so deeply buried?

Maybe you're right, maybe there was a giant space station that was doing duplicant research. Then something horrible happened and buried the station in an asteroid. Alternatively the station was abandoned and millions of years passed, enough time to aggregate space material around the station into an asteroid. The endgame would be unlock the coordinates of the ancestor race, break out of the asteroid and rebuild space engines capable of pushing them back to their home or to wherever the ancestors went.

For something extra fun/creepy, maybe the morbs, puffs, hatches and slicksters ARE the ancestors and an accident mutated them. Thousands of years passed and their **** piled up and buried everything. Would explain the slime biomes, the hot biomes and the oil. The end game would be to unlock genetic engineering and some how restore them. Then break out of the asteroid and go home. 

 

[Risu]

Welcome to early access. Expect to see an end game be added after we get through alpha and into beta.
 

[trukogre]

3 hours ago, NckBuLLetZZ said:

I thought the interesting chance of implementing an and game goal MIGHT be coming with refined metals. It's fun to create them.....but you are just creating them for the sake of creating them: and that's when I get bored. I think a perfect endgame option is the dupes building a "space station" to get home. It would be manufacturing a space ship to get them out, but it would require a LOT of resources. Maybe even pumped in clean oxygen....tons of refined gold, copper, tungsten.... packages of stored food..... an extra and maybe difficult research tree for the ship......like......3000 kg of clean O2, kilograms upon kilograms of refined metals......it would be fun!!!

THIS would provide me with he will to win. ANNNNND replayability would be trough the roof! The strategy to gain said materials would be COMPLETELY different depending on how the world rendered. And I don't know about everyone else, but I would be utterly addicted, lol. I would restart over and over and over again, because even after you win, the strategy and experience is different EVERY time! 

 

Except for the extra research tree, which is really just clicking on a research button a few times and having dupes work on it, everything else you mention is something you can already do in the game as it exists now.  You can decide on numbers of how much o2, how much refined metals, how much food stored in a sterile atmosphere, etc. you are shooting for, you can have your dupes put all that in a storage room you make in the outline of a space ship, and voila, you've just implemented the skeleton of the endgame you want.  Then you can go to a graphics program and make a little video of the dupes blasting off into the sky, with voiceovers provided by your deep narrator voiced friend and you doing a falsetto for Mi-Ma's comedic interjections.  Endgame!  Feel free to thank me via text here or with massive cash donations, either is acceptable.

[MidnightSteam]

2 hours ago, NurdRage said:

For something extra fun/creepy, maybe the morbs, puffs, hatches and slicksters ARE the ancestors and an accident mutated them.

Haha, that would be a really nice twist. It'll leave quite an impact on people when they realize all the Hatches and Morbs they've killed are actually indigenous people who've been mutated.

 

End game to me right now is having the game run in the background for as long as possible while I do other things. lol

[chemie]

Try playing with a challenge set for yourself.

 

Like "no electrolyzers and 20 dupes"

or

"no geysers and 20 dups"

 

"only stuffed berries for food"

 

honestly, I do not see how you get to "full sustainability" at 100 cycles....I haven't even got nat gas and water geyers running by then and and I still digging out for base stuff.

[NckBuLLetZZ]

yeah see, I don't know.......I know it is just a little ridiculous for me to just arbitrarily put like 10 storage lockers in a cave, and say.....ok when this is full of so many resources......i WIN! Kinda pointless and very arbitrary.

And yeah, I'm arguably fully sustainable by 65-70 cycles. I got lucky once and literally spawned right next to a vat of natural gas.....so that one was relatively easy. But this last game, it took me 100 cycles...but I still reach this point where I have nothing to do. 

And I don't know if it's just me...but hunting for these little "hidden lore caves" ....not really doing it for me. The attribute bonuses are motivating, yes. But I need an overarching goal. If I had that......this game (for me at least) would be approaching perfection. Heck when new crazy and awesome things are added in future updates, they could require more / different elements to be collected to fill and build the ship!

Come on Klei........I'll PM you awesome developers my phone number and we can have a chat! lol

I LOVE this game ......and I literally would be addicted if I just had a will to win. 

[trukogre]

yeah see, how it goes....if you think your own idea is pointless and arbitrary.....why would klei implement it into the game......?

[NckBuLLetZZ]

no, no, no 

Someone had the idea to (in the meantime, before Klei would implement anything) to just set up like 10 storage lockers, and then pretend I have a ship,.....and put refined metals and such into them and pretend they were an endgame. THAT is arbitrary and dumb. Developers should challenge me to win for real

Having Klei actually create an endgame with my space idea would be the best! An actual drive to win! 

[trukogre]

12 minutes ago, NckBuLLetZZ said:

no, no, no 

Someone had the idea to (in the meantime, before Klei would implement anything) to just set up like 10 storage lockers, and then pretend I have a ship,.....and put refined metals and such into them and pretend they were an endgame. THAT is arbitrary and dumb. Developers should challenge me to win for real

Having Klei actually create an endgame with my space idea would be the best! An actual drive to win! 

Again, if your idea is "arbitrary and dumb" (your own evaluation of your own idea) if you do what you said yourself, then it wouldn't be the best if Klei implemented the same idea, it would still be "arbitrary and dumb".  It's the same idea, just with better graphics.  Neither one is real.  It's a pretend, virtual, not real, game, either way.  I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.  If their idea differed from just putting storage containers in a ship shaped storage room by more than just adding in better graphics/interface, then it would no longer be your idea, it would be a new idea, the more it differed, the more new it would be.  Just to be clear, a spaceship isn't your idea, that's been discussed for ages.  The only thing that's your idea is putting a bunch of storage containers in a spaceship shaped room and filling them up to win the game--which is only vaguely a new idea, as that's basically just the spaceship winning option from the Civ series.   Here's a thought experiment: if it's not fun if you pick the numbers, but it is fun if Klei picks the numbers--1.  What if Klei picks the same numbers that you proposed?  How are the same numbers both not fun and fun?  2.  What if we make another person play the game and do your idea, but we don't tell him whether you picked the numbers or whether Klei did?  How does he know whether to have fun or not?

[chemie]

I would love to see a "fully sustainable" base at 65 cycles...do you have a save to share?

[trukogre]

20 minutes ago, chemie said:

I would love to see a "fully sustainable" base at 65 cycles...do you have a save to share?

What does "fully sustainable" mean, though?  If he means he has a steam geyser set up so he won't run out of water, a natgas geyser for sustainable power, he has enough meal lice going to feed his 3 dupes, and he has found an entropy machine in the ice biome so he knows he won't overheat in the long run, you could do that earlier than cycle 65 with favorable locations for those things. You could argue that's fully sustainable in that you have the resources you need to survive arbitrarily long already discovered and/or exploited.  If "fully sustainable" means you could leave it running for 96 hours and the dupes would be fine, that might benefit from some feedback automation which would probably take longer, right?  When people make vague unsubstantiated claims, the first step is generally not to ask for substantiation, but for clarification, for obvious reasons.  Or you could just interpret the vagueness as whatever makes the claim most plausible and then let it rest, which saves you the most time of all  

[Exa]

I tried many challenge like :

• Try to reach magma as fast as possible (my best is 10 cycles, beat that biatch)
• Never discard dupes and accept them immediatly
• Only hamster wheel for power

 

[chemie]

19 minutes ago, trukogre said:

What does "fully sustainable" mean, though?  If he means he has a steam geyser set up so he won't run out of water, a natgas geyser for sustainable power, he has enough meal lice going to feed his 3 dupes, and he has found an entropy machine in the ice biome so he knows he won't overheat in the long run, you could do that earlier than cycle 65 with favorable locations for those things. You could argue that's fully sustainable in that you have the resources you need to survive arbitrarily long already discovered and/or exploited.  If "fully sustainable" means you could leave it running for 96 hours and the dupes would be fine, that might benefit from some feedback automation which would probably take longer, right?  When people make vague unsubstantiated claims, the first step is generally not to ask for substantiation, but for clarification, for obvious reasons.  Or you could just interpret the vagueness as whatever makes the claim most plausible and then let it rest, which saves you the most time of all  

I am not sure you could get that done by 3 dups...wouldnt mind seeing that one too.  I guess my post was one seeing is believing since I can't come close to sustainable in that time.

[clickrush]

5 minutes ago, chemie said:

I am not sure you could get that done by 3 dups...wouldnt mind seeing that one too.  I guess my post was one seeing is believing since I can't come close to sustainable in that time.

65 cycles sounds fast and likely has a very convenient seed. I'd say you can have a fully sustainable base in roughly 100-150 cycles with 6 ish dupes if we define sustainable as having a constant income of water, oxygen and food, having all systems and the base cooled, having enough power to run it all and not being in danger of spreading germs and having stress management. Oh and all the systems and the base don't overpressurize/overflow. Some of that requires automation if you want to be precise with the cooling but most of these things only require a proper layout. But 65? The most time consuming thing in ONI is digging and moving materials around so I guess a very close gas and steam geyser can speed up things by a lot.

[bzgzd]

EndGoal or winning the game was briefly mentioned also in last streams:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/201813480?t=
32:30

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/203779956?t=
1:01:25

Short version: they can't say but are working on it or thinking about it

 

[hyzemi]

Hmm interesting. However in some games the emotes work and in others they don't, that's why it leads me to believe it's a bug.

[Foefaller]

On 11/28/2017 at 2:50 PM, Exa said:

I tried many challenge like :

• Try to reach magma as fast as possible (my best is 10 cycles, beat that biatch)
• Never discard dupes and accept them immediatly
• Only hamster wheel for power

 

That second I feel like is pretty much mandatory for every game I play (exceptions being when I miss the alert) Part of the fun for me is having to continually  stretch out resources to accommodate an ever-growing number of dupes

Now, always picking the mouth-breathers and farters... that would be a good challenge.

[NckBuLLetZZ]

yeah these points are very valid. Now, I'll clarify, i do NOT see it arbitrary to gather MASSIVE amounts of materials to build a ship. It's a clearly defined goal to achieve. It also gives me INCENTIVE to explore difficult areas to gather hard things! Whereas now.....my motivation is limited to ...ehhhhh maybe I'll find a machine to get a dupe a new character stat......which dwindles quickly. 

 

On 11/28/2017 at 4:29 PM, bzgzd said:

EndGoal or winning the game was briefly mentioned also in last streams:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/201813480?t=
32:30

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/203779956?t=
1:01:25

Short version: they can't say but are working on it or thinking about it

 

And thanks for this info! This gives me hope. Honestly, an endgame doesn't "need" to be resource gathering to build a ship. Maybe even .....reach the "surface".....I'm totally open! I just think that if I had a goal in this game.....it might take a slot on my favorite game ever list

[donutman07]

Might be neat if there were something in the magma to work down towards. It'd take some effort to cool it all down and get down through it

[KZtyler]

it would be cool to be able to World Hop like in dont starve, maybe you could build a machine (or found it on ruins) that allows you to travel with your dupes to another asteroid, maybe carrying all the structures that fit in an 20x20 square around the machine or so, i think it could be interesting to start again with trained dupes and some of the stuff you have in your current base, and everything researched so far

[clickrush]

20 minutes ago, KZtyler said:

it would be cool to be able to World Hop like in dont starve, maybe you could build a machine (or found it on ruins) that allows you to travel with your dupes to another asteroid, maybe carrying all the structures that fit in an 20x20 square around the machine or so, i think it could be interesting to start again with trained dupes and some of the stuff you have in your current base, and everything researched so far

That is a very cool idea. Allthough I would rather just be able to carry on materials than actual tiles. For example if this beaming device had a limited storage that can be filled. Rare metals come to mind.

Slightly off-topic about the "how many cycles" question: I just started a new world a short while ago. My base was sustainable after about 147 cycles with 6 dupes. I probably didn't go about it in a super efficient way. It is mostly electrolyzer based but has some liquid oxygen input. Everything is cooled and it uses 2 nat gas geysers. Allthough it was a weird world gen, I was surrounded by slime but had the luck of having a very close slime setpiece, the one with the neural thing and some germ free slime around with a lot of reeds growing on top, so I was able to rush to exosuits quickly. I did some extra things in this but I'd wager I could only cut it down by maybe 50 cycles or so.

But after this run I feel like 65 cycles seems off by a long shot. Having sufficient cooling, renewable power and oxygen means that you are doing a lot of different things over a semi large area. Just doing the digging and moving of materials alone for what I did almost requires that amount of cycles.

[NckBuLLetZZ]

3 hours ago, KZtyler said:

it would be cool to be able to World Hop like in dont starve, maybe you could build a machine (or found it on ruins) that allows you to travel with your dupes to another asteroid, maybe carrying all the structures that fit in an 20x20 square around the machine or so, i think it could be interesting to start again with trained dupes and some of the stuff you have in your current base, and everything researched so far

I like this idea! The only slight issue, is it just kind of furthers the same problem. Adding a new amount of gameplay to keep me engaged for another 80 cycles or so....then lose motivation. 

There was one thing I saw in that video from the developer stream. They said that an endgame is difficult because if you reach it....your base goes away when you restart. But again.....it would be TOTALLY optional because of how the game is fantastically designed already! If you wanted to play your own games like "never deny a dupe" or "race to the magma"....you totally can! 

But see for me, I can't wait to win because of the high it gives....AND restarting is awesome! Because the random world generation means the strategy to reach that endgame would NEVER be the same! And that's the DEFINITION of replayability. This game would literally be very close to perfect on the strategy sense. Nothing else even close to it. Rimworld is close, but this is soooo much better in many ways. However.....Rimworld has an endgame! I just downloaded it and to have a goal....(just pure coincidence that it's exactly the same idea I'm arguing for in ONI....but they're both space games soo....lol) That goal means I've invested 30 or so hours and I bought it 5 days ago! And when I help my guys build their spaceship...(which is NOT easy btw- lots of effort involved- which is AWESOME!) they will escape and I'll start again! New biome/new strat/ new experience! And yes I know Rimworld has been around for like 5 years now.....hehe...but ONI is in my opinion only missing this critical component. Now......same argument here.....if in Rimworld you did just want to hang around and build and build.....you totally can!!  

Also, the argument that it stinks for your base to go away when you "win"......well, when new content gets released, doesn't that technically happen already. Because you are forced to start a new base with new features/ items and such....

[Oozinator]

Yes endgame.. ^^

 

[NckBuLLetZZ]

On 11/28/2017 at 2:08 PM, trukogre said:

Again, if your idea is "arbitrary and dumb" (your own evaluation of your own idea) if you do what you said yourself, then it wouldn't be the best if Klei implemented the same idea, it would still be "arbitrary and dumb".  It's the same idea, just with better graphics.  Neither one is real.  It's a pretend, virtual, not real, game, either way.  I'm not sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.  If their idea differed from just putting storage containers in a ship shaped storage room by more than just adding in better graphics/interface, then it would no longer be your idea, it would be a new idea, the more it differed, the more new it would be.  Just to be clear, a spaceship isn't your idea, that's been discussed for ages.  The only thing that's your idea is putting a bunch of storage containers in a spaceship shaped room and filling them up to win the game--which is only vaguely a new idea, as that's basically just the spaceship winning option from the Civ series.   Here's a thought experiment: if it's not fun if you pick the numbers, but it is fun if Klei picks the numbers--1.  What if Klei picks the same numbers that you proposed?  How are the same numbers both not fun and fun?  2.  What if we make another person play the game and do your idea, but we don't tell him whether you picked the numbers or whether Klei did?  How does he know whether to have fun or not?

ok.....miscommunication I think.....

If I just try to store things on my own now...for no reason...I have no will to do that without the developers building a challenge for me. I actually think resource gathering to build up to an endgame for your dupes to escape is an AWESOME idea. But what I find dumb is doing it NOW....before anything actually gets implemented......like I get I am not speaking for everyone because some folks might find it fun to have like...races to the magma.....or never deny a dupe and see how long you last.....or only manual generators.....things like that. 

It's kinda the same reasoning why I have no drive to 100% games without trophies......no motivation. 

Let's change the example.....let's say Klei decides that reaching the very "top" of the map after it's redesigned (No neutronium everywhere so there's actually a challenge to reach the surface) is the way to win. Until that's actually implemented, I have no will to do it "for kicks" now......they haven't coded the challenge into the game yet. But when it comes into the game.....I would LOVE the challenge of getting the dupes to win. 

Same idea for resource gathering. If Klei chooses a certain amount (100kg of this metal / 200kg of this , etc.) , that means that they would cater the map generator to turn it into a real challenge! Perhaps you have to venture massively far to get something to refine. But before they ACTUALLY put it into the game.....it's completely arbitrary for me to decide numbers now......and just throw them into a storage locker.....and say....."I win".

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