tips for producing air

[cmitc1]

algae deoxidizer- I end up burning through my algae quite quickly even when I'm only using a few

algae terrarium-I've tried using a lot of these, with a system of vents, to provide air, but any pawn allowed to work on maintaining them pretty much spends 100% of there time maintaining them

electrolizer- I haven't made a efficient system with them yet due to the hydrogen, but the main problem I've had with them is getting their air everywhere.

 

 

.......

 

I assume electrolizer is the best? some tips about managing it would be nice.

 

[AlexRou]

hydrogen goes up so use that to make hydrogen pool in a small area and put a pump there, then use vents to push oxygen around.

[Masterpintsman]

Or simply spread them over your base and make ways for hydrogen to travel up and CO2 to fall down... it is way easier to route water and power than to move gas around.

[Kasuha]

1 hour ago, cmitc1 said:

algae deoxidizer- I end up burning through my algae quite quickly even when I'm only using a few

I believe they're meant only as temporary measurement until you get to better ways

1 hour ago, cmitc1 said:

algae terrarium-I've tried using a lot of these, with a system of vents, to provide air, but any pawn allowed to work on maintaining them pretty much spends 100% of there time maintaining them

Way of getting rid of CO2 rather than way of generating oxygen - you can achieve less maintenance if you put them in a bit of water.

1 hour ago, cmitc1 said:

electrolizer- I haven't made a efficient system with them yet due to the hydrogen, but the main problem I've had with them is getting their air everywhere.

The most efficient system I have found is putting them in free space somewhere near the top of your base and making sure your base is gas permeable so the oxygen spreads through it and the hydrogen collects at the top. Put single pump and a gas filter at the top, put hydrogen generator behind the filtered output, and a valve set to low throughput behind the unfiltered output - the valve will make sure that when the pump is not in hydrogen, the whole system will get blocked for a while, saving power. Then leave it up to your dupes to get rid of the oxygen.

[heckubis]

this system uses 2 electrolysers and is set up as a cooling system that uses extra hydrogen for spare energy. relying on hydrogen as a pure power source can lead to cascade failures. not enough air consumption to keep up with hydrogen needs. Any hydrogen not being used for the cooler is sent to a generator that feeds the energy back into the system to reduce workloads on the runners and coal generators instead of relying on it. valves are a good tool for deciding either what room to fill first by having a valve directly on the o2 line or by amount of air you want to be pumping into a room by having the valve on a off shoot line with a vale set the o2 requirements for the occupants of the room.

the system I have is not set up to glitch past over pressurization and I don't actually recommend it unless your trying to over task one or 2 devices.  A room with full air pressure will not receive air and the system will power itself down in scale with the consumption so once your rooms are nice and full the system will only work to maintain it. instead of having too much air pressure to work with. And depending on your temperature and valve setting the cooling system even with only 1 thermal regulator can cool oxygen to liquid and still be making air for your base

 

[heckubis]

oh and algae terrariums can be drip fed water from a pipe with a valve set to 1000g/s or is it 100g/s  and a tap over it. the dupe will fill it once then the drip will do the rest

[Jumpp]

Be aware that algae terrariums are very thirsty. They consume nearly seven times as much water as an electrolyzer to produce the same amount of O2. To use them on a large scale, you'll need a vast supply of water. Worse: You'll need a vast supply of cool water. Unlike showers and lavs and electrolyzers, you can't (easily) run them off scalding-hot water without leaking significant waste heat. Even the water purifier output is uncomfortably warm at 40C. The last time I tried drip-feeding a huge algae farm from freshly-purified water I cooked my base.

[The Flying Fox]

8 hours ago, Jumpp said:

Be aware that algae terrariums are very thirsty. They consume nearly seven times as much water as an electrolyzer to produce the same amount of O2. To use them on a large scale, you'll need a vast supply of water. Worse: You'll need a vast supply of cool water. Unlike showers and lavs and electrolyzers, you can't (easily) run them off scalding-hot water without leaking significant waste heat. Even the water purifier output is uncomfortably warm at 40C. The last time I tried drip-feeding a huge algae farm from freshly-purified water I cooked my base.

Makes me wonder how this will work for the new plant boxes we'll be getting in the next update.  Can we feed them with hot water without affecting them?  I'd imagine the water just goes into them and is basically used right away.  So, as long as we use some insulated piping..

[Lifegrow]

On 5/7/2017 at 7:51 PM, cmitc1 said:

algae deoxidizer- I end up burning through my algae quite quickly even when I'm only using a few

algae terrarium-I've tried using a lot of these, with a system of vents, to provide air, but any pawn allowed to work on maintaining them pretty much spends 100% of there time maintaining them

electrolizer- I haven't made a efficient system with them yet due to the hydrogen, but the main problem I've had with them is getting their air everywhere.

I assume electrolizer is the best? some tips about managing it would be nice.

 

Deoxidyzers - Use them sparingly, you don't need more and 1 or 2 early on as long as your colony hasn't expanded too quickly. 

Terrariums - Avoid using loads of them, I normally save placing terrariums for when i'm digging into large co2-filled areas, in your base you can just have a sink (i.e. a big hole/shaft) in the bottom right of your base and place maybe 1 or 2 in there, or if you have plenty of water, use a single air scrubber instead.

Electrolyzers are your bread and butter for oxygen as soon as you're able - there are lots of designs on the forums if you do a quick search

Good luck!

[Jackblac]

I like to use Algae Deoxidyzer as a way to fill an area with pressure when expanding. This way I dont have to think about piping water or capturing the hydrogen for power production. I just put one wheel, deoxidyzer and then big battery next to each other.

I tested terrariums earlier, but didnt like them. The easiest way to deal with carbon dioxide right now is just pumping it into a room and then freezing it. You can do this with first cooling hydrogen with wheezeworths and then using just one or two coolers after that. This can be done to chlorine aswell, but it requires lower temperature. This works for now because mined "blocks" or circles of material can have unlimited amount of material in them. I have frozen about 2000kgs of CO2 with this method and when loading the game I might have 2 or 3 solid blocks that I just mine down and keep going

[cmitc1]

http://imgur.com/a/cdpfm this is what I'm working on right now.....

[cmitc1]

well, I wasn't able to keep up with power and died V.V

[Ciderblock]

On 5/8/2017 at 11:14 AM, heckubis said:

this system uses 2 electrolysers and is set up as a cooling system that uses extra hydrogen for spare energy. relying on hydrogen as a pure power source can lead to cascade failures. not enough air consumption to keep up with hydrogen needs. Any hydrogen not being used for the cooler is sent to a generator that feeds the energy back into the system to reduce workloads on the runners and coal generators instead of relying on it. valves are a good tool for deciding either what room to fill first by having a valve directly on the o2 line or by amount of air you want to be pumping into a room by having the valve on a off shoot line with a vale set the o2 requirements for the occupants of the room.

the system I have is not set up to glitch past over pressurization and I don't actually recommend it unless your trying to over task one or 2 devices.  A room with full air pressure will not receive air and the system will power itself down in scale with the consumption so once your rooms are nice and full the system will only work to maintain it. instead of having too much air pressure to work with. And depending on your temperature and valve setting the cooling system even with only 1 thermal regulator can cool oxygen to liquid and still be making air for your base

 

Although this is neat and effective in the long run, I think this would be overwhelming to someone trying to get a basic handle on electrolyzer usage. It's quite power-intensive, especially when compared to "open-air" solutions. With no power saving tricks, you can keep as many as 8 dupes breathing with 1 electrolyzer, 1 gas pump, 1 gas filter, and 1 hydrogen generator in a gas permeable space. That consumes 480W and in theory would put out 800W, provided that your dupes remain in that confined area to remove the oxygen to keep the electrolyzers running. By just adding electrolyzers and hydrogen generators (no more pumps) you can get all the way to 40 dupes. With a closed system, you need 2 pumps per electrolyzer, which is a lot of power.

[Ciderblock]

14 hours ago, Jackblac said:

The easiest way to deal with carbon dioxide right now is just pumping it into a room and then freezing it.

Personally I like using an Air Scrubber and just converting the polluted water to fertilizer. It seems easier than this freezing solution, provided you have enough water, and the water needs are not all that high either.

[DaniBlue]

Until Im set up for the electrolizers later I general keep the main area where my dupes sleep and do research in a small chamber with airlocks and just oxygenate that and they leave it to go work in un oxygenated areas, usually one algea oxidizer works like that and you dont burn through algae as fast, eventually when you have the rest of the base set up for electro's you move on from the small chamber

[heckubis]

2 hours ago, Ciderblock said:

Although this is neat and effective in the long run, I think this would be overwhelming to someone trying to get a basic handle on electrolyzer usage. It's quite power-intensive, especially when compared to "open-air" solutions. With no power saving tricks, you can keep as many as 8 dupes breathing with 1 electrolyzer, 1 gas pump, 1 gas filter, and 1 hydrogen generator in a gas permeable space. That consumes 480W and in theory would put out 800W, provided that your dupes remain in that confined area to remove the oxygen to keep the electrolyzers running. By just adding electrolyzers and hydrogen generators (no more pumps) you can get all the way to 40 dupes. With a closed system, you need 2 pumps per electrolyzer, which is a lot of power.

actually not energy intensive at all the entire system is designed to utilize the natural max pressures and maximum outputs that of the vents and electrolysers have and enters a sleep mode that requires barley any energy. yes its a little advanced and leads to learning about proper ventingas running into over pressure in your base wont happen. Once its operating on just an air supply  will still handle the dupes and naturally scale production up along with your dupes 2 electrolyser pairs nd placing pipes to appropriate pairs is still good for 16 -18 dupes.

over working one or 2 devices at their maxed output only causes damage to your  machines

all these electrolysers are set up using a similar and easier to understand. each pair (upper set vs lower) had 1 wheel running at half time and rarely needed to add coal.

sometimes not making air when you don't need it saves energy. set up properly you base stays full and runs cheep set up badly it breaks down and requires more power and runs out in areas where you need it

[Ciderblock]

3 hours ago, heckubis said:

actually not energy intensive at all the entire system is designed to utilize the natural max pressures and maximum outputs that of the vents and electrolysers have and enters a sleep mode that requires barley any energy. yes its a little advanced and leads to learning about proper ventingas running into over pressure in your base wont happen. Once its operating on just an air supply  will still handle the dupes and naturally scale production up along with your dupes 2 electrolyser pairs nd placing pipes to appropriate pairs is still good for 16 -18 dupes.

over working one or 2 devices at their maxed output only causes damage to your  machines

all these electrolysers are set up using a similar and easier to understand. each pair (upper set vs lower) had 1 wheel running at half time and rarely needed to add coal.

sometimes not making air when you don't need it saves energy. set up properly you base stays full and runs cheep set up badly it breaks down and requires more power and runs out in areas where you need it

It's a little bit more subtle than I actually said. You are right that if everything is running smoothly, then a system like this runs basically in lockstep. 1 electrolyzer, 2 pumps, a filter, and 8 dupes will power a hydrogen generator in theory continuously, since your dupes breathe on average 800 g/s oxygen which matches up with 100 g/s hydrogen. That system consumes 720W maximum (in practice it is somewhat less since your electrolyzer does not run all the time) and in theory generates 800W, so it should pretty much cancel out, leaving your other generators to power your remaining appliances. This also gives you fine control over where exactly your oxygen goes, so it is good for a "perfect" base tuned just right.

The problem is that it really does have to be tuned nicely, otherwise it can put a lot of strain on your power. In particular, if you're still small, like 4 dupes, and you are not careful to make the system block itself, then the power consumption vs. generation deteriorates a lot, since your pumps will frequently operate under near vacuum. That's why I was saying that for someone struggling to learn the basics, I don't think this suggestion is helpful.

[heckubis]

actually my pumps never operate at a pure vacuum and are usually at maxed pressure. I never recommend running more than your grid can handle because using power on a large grid can cause some systems to function systems to run out when they are intended for life support. trying to over use your air system to maintain a constant out put is  bad planning and you should focus on keeping areas full not maintaining constant output on an as over stretched of a system as possible when several simple systems that work together are more efficient

[Ciderblock]

1 hour ago, heckubis said:

actually my pumps never operate at a pure vacuum and are usually at maxed pressure. I never recommend running more than your grid can handle because using power on a large grid can cause some systems to function systems to run out when they are intended for life support. trying to over use your air system to maintain a constant out put is  bad planning and you should focus on keeping areas full not maintaining constant output on an as over stretched of a system as possible when several simple systems that work together are more efficient

I'm not saying that *your* system has this problem. I'm saying that if you don't really know what you are doing, closed electrolyzer systems can be quite negative in terms of power, which can lead to your dupes spending so much time on hamster wheels that they get almost nothing else done. I know this because I had a base collapse this way myself. My suspicion is that the OP would probably have the same experience on a first try at such a system, which can really be quite frustrating.

By contrast for open electrolyzer systems, until you have quite a lot of dupes (in theory 40, in practice probably closer to 20), a single pump for moving hydrogen is sufficient to prevent hydrogen buildup and to generate power. It is quite simple to design even if its efficiency is not perfect. It can in fact be quite wasteful if you neglect to insert the appropriate valves, but the maximum power consumption of the whole system is so low that that winds up not really mattering at all.

[Moggles]

Having a base collapse is not a bad thing it's a learning experience.

Of course if you don't know what you're doing you will fail it's like learning to ride a bike.

As long as Klei give new users enough time to experiment before total collapse the game will be cruel but fair and repeated play will see improvements.

I don't know. There is this trend toward optimal efficiency in gaming recently that disturbs me.

56 minutes ago, Ciderblock said:

My suspicion is that the OP would probably have the same experience on a first try at such a system, which can really be quite frustrating.

I expect everyone does. Until they try again and maybe improve on what came before.

[Ciderblock]

11 hours ago, Moggles said:

I don't know. There is this trend toward optimal efficiency in gaming recently that disturbs me.

This is actually part of why I suggest using an open-air system to get started. It's easy to set up but not perfect, which gives you a reasonably stable sandbox in which to play with other systems while still not solving all of your air problems. But then my habit is mostly to play permadeath-style in these kind of games, which means that for me a total base collapse means doing the entire early game over again, not just rolling back 10 or 20 cycles.