Casuals are ruining this game.

[Mday]

You clearly weren't around for the start of the game then.

What you're describing are tactics used by players who already have a good grasp on how the game works.

 

The first two months of DS being released had this forum be covered with guides on how to survive x amount of days.

You don't see that happening with shipwrecked. People just jumped in and survived for a year or two with no issues.

 

Now you can argue that people do that because they now understand the basics of survival, but that is also a flawed way of thinking about it. Shipwrecked should be being created with that knowledge in mind, and it seems that the devs are indeed trying to stir things up by making bases be less of a safe haven.

I've watch some early lets play from don't starve. Those are video from the days where Research Points were still in use. Is that early enough? In those play thou it is like find berry, get grass, build touch and nothing else:C I don't think it is that hard either.

[CameoAppearance]

To stop the tide from coming in.

Makes more sense than sandbags stopping a torrential rainfall coming from the damn sky, anyway.

 

Now explain why needing to stop the tide from coming in is enough of a concern to justify the developers adding a new item with its own art assets instead of doing something more useful with their time like getting the new characters ready to play or building boss monsters, since the tide only reaches about one tile onto the shoreline and even standing around in it for a while won't get you any wetter than a light drizzle or being hit by exactly one wave.

[Mday]

To stop the tide from coming in.

Makes more sense than sandbags stopping a torrential rainfall coming from the damn sky, anyway.

Oh well.

IRL torrential rainfall don't just make flooding happens in tropical island.

Ever think about how does tropical island from? A tropical island is basically a mountain submerged in the sea, only with its perk above the water. Since rain water generally will flow to lower ground, tropical island rarely have mass flooding from rainfall. Often if a tropical island do get flooding it is caused by the rise of sea level.

[PeerlessMind]

Now explain why needing to stop the tide from coming in is enough of a concern to justify the developers adding a new item with its own art assets instead of doing something more useful with their time like getting the new characters ready to play or building boss monsters, since the tide only reaches about one tile onto the shoreline and even standing around in it for a while won't get you any wetter than a light drizzle or being hit by exactly one wave.

 

Adding an item =/= Adding a new character/boss

Come on now. Clearly creating an item is less time consuming and requires less time to balance than setting up a character which has completely new dialogue, animations, and voice.

 

As for its purpose? Who knows. I've never bothered with sandbags. Maybe it was for people who built their base on a beach near the Ocean.

You're definitely undermining how far in the tide goes though, because it's most certainly more than one tile. I've built numerous fires at the start of the game a decent distance away from the ocean, only for the tide to still reach the fire (to my surprise) and put it out.

 

Often if a tropical island do get flooding it is caused by the rise of sea level.

 

 

True, but in the case of Shipwrecked, it is heavily implied that it's caused by the rainfall itself, hence the reason for puddles randomly appearing in the middle of an island. That's not how regular rising sea level floods work.

[_Q_]

Game got easier to be accesible for wider audience. 

 

[Mday]

Adding an item =/= Adding a new character/boss

Come on now. Clearly creating an item is less time consuming and requires less time to balance than setting up a character which has completely new dialogue, animations, and voice.

 

You're definitely undermining how far in the tide goes though, because it's most certainly more than one tile. I've built numerous fires at the start of the game a decent distance away from the ocean, only for the tide to still reach the fire (to my surprise) and put it out.

 

 

 

 

 

True, but in the case of Shipwrecked, it is heavily implied that it's caused by the rainfall itself, hence the reason for puddles randomly appearing in the middle of an island. That's not how regular rising sea level floods work.

1) I am not so sure about this. The way people complaint about everything in SW, I bet it is easier to create a new character if for the sake of getting the "challenge" back. Just think about Wes's perk, Effectively make the game that much harder all around. May be if you find Wes in SW too easy, they can come up with something better than Damage Multiplier 0.75x + Hunger Multiplier -1.25x. You know, just to keep players like you happy?

 

2) One thing I've notice is that you can replace the turfs on beach which will greatly reduce the tide reach.

 

3) Wrong. In the case of shipwrecked, it is heavily implied that the puddle just spawn from nowhere and disregard physics. You wana know why? Cause:

a) The location of the puddle change every year. 

b) The puddle can be disabled by placing sandbags on top of it. Afterward you can safely remove the sandbag and non matter how bad it rain, there just won't be any more puddle for the year.

So there you go. Puddle isn't caused by rainfall.

[PeerlessMind]

1) I am not so sure about this. The way people complaint about everything in SW, I bet it is easier to create a new character if for the sake of getting the "challenge" back. Just think about Wes's perk, Effectively make the game that much harder all around. May be if you find Wes in SW too easy, they can come up with something better than Damage Multiplier 0.75x + Hunger Multiplier -1.25x. You know, just to keep players like you happy?

 

2) One thing I've notice is that you can replace the turfs on beach which will greatly reduce the tide reach.

 

3) Wrong. In the case of shipwrecked, it is heavily implied that the puddle just spawn from nowhere and disregard physics. You wana know why? Cause:

a) The location of the puddle change every year. 

b) The puddle can be disabled by placing sandbags on top of it. Afterward you can safely remove the sandbag and non matter how bad it rain, there just won't be any more puddle for the year.

So there you go. Puddle isn't caused by rainfall.

 

1. Or just continue to make the game harder. I like that choice better. You can't band aid easy gameplay with a gimped character.

 

2. Neat.

 

3. Well even if that is the case, it's still not caused by a raising sea level, which is the only type of flooding that sandbags would make sense defending against.

...How did this debate derail to the point that we're arguing physics in a game like Don't Starve?

 

Anyway, I'm going to bed, so I'll leave you with this.

 

If Monsoon season is supposed to be hard countered by an easy to craft bag of sand of all things, then tell me, what is the threat of the season?

Because that's the equivalent of me making a LIGHTNING season and having 90% of its effects negated by a lightning rod.

 

Hurricane season, which comes before Monsoon season has lightning, rough sea with large waves, wind, rain and makes a lot of useful creatures disappear until next season.

 

Monsoon has its flooded land and mosquitos. Take away the flooding because lol sand.

 

You really expect people to believe that the seasons entire threat is some easy to deal with mosquitos? Come on....

[t0panka]

snip

 

 

snip

 

+ some of others that posted here you need to realize FEW IMPORTANT THINGS!!!

 

- DS vanilla was challenging AS HELL when you first open the game!

- ROG added MORE DIFICULTY to DS world - IMO a lot more

- SW is DLC on top of DS and ROG! It needs to add more difficulty on top of ROG or at least keep it same!

 

About every player feedback is equal ... how about hell no? Let me say first that i have nothing against new players and i did myself bring around 20-30 people to DS as new players. I can (and i am) helping new players, explain stuff to them, put them in right direction and so on. I am also doing this in DST and i have no problems with this. BUT

 

HOW can players that are new in DS game provide real feedback to DLC of that game? Are you serious guys? You don't get to say how we should change Deerclops when you didn't even met him and can't get past day5! SW is expansion of DS (yes right now it is "standalone") so if someone have problem surviving in SW how about go play DS first like everyone else did? ALSO do you know someone who start playing ROG without trying DS first and have no problems surviving? I DONT and now i see beginners posting that SW is their first game and it is easy for them? :DDD I died in DS/ROG 328907430294823094x before it becomes "easy" and after hundreds of hours i put in these games it is still not that easy!

[Mday]

You really expect people to believe that the seasons entire threat is some easy to deal with mosquitos? Come on....

That is for the individual player to judge. I personally hated the mosquitos more than being denied assess to the alchemy and pots.

Winter's effect is 90% negated by the ice meat ball and a burning tree; Spring effect is 90% negated by a few trap+ an umbrella; Summer effect is 100% negated by an ice flingomatic.

The fact is, nothing in DS/ROG cannot be hard countered. If you know how to deal with it the game is easy.

SW, at least it is some slot of a new experience and I have my time battling 12 sea hounds at sea, killing swordfish and etc. I do find that challenging at times. 

 

You know what is the only thing that cannot be hard countered?

The LAG in DST cannot be hard countered.

[Lumina]

Why don't you wait for the world setting option and make your game easier? The game does not revolve around you, or being easy for that matter.

The games claim to fame back when it first came out was party due to its challenge. RoG increased the challenge too. 

 

And while we're on the subject of rudeness, thinking you have any right to silence people who are asking for more difficulty by trying to insinuate that they're being rude is pretty damn rude in its own right.

 

I think that it's far more easier having a moderate difficulty and ask for the good player to tweak it that having a nightmare difficulty and ask for new players, bad players and normal players to change it.

 

I think also that mods are, in theory, here to help you to adjusts this sort of setting. Problem is : mod adding difficulty aren't the most common.

 

The base game should have a balance, and this balance mean that it should avoid some sort of difficulty the most frustrating for example.

 

And if something is fine for you, it's maybe not fine for the others because they have different playstyle and expectations.

For example, i found poison, not really "difficult" but not fun when you are poisoned early game. Of course, i could avoid snake and swamp and so on, but i don't find it fun. Because i don't only want to survive, i want do various things and this there is too much to avoid, it's not especially fun.

 

And often i read things like "survival is easy, you just need x berry bush and some stuff and it's ok and you survive all the season easily." but you don't play don't starve just for that, no ?

 

I think that there should be a mod making the game more difficult, like :

 

- better damage/hp to some enemies.

- special bad recipe if you use more than one/two ice in a recipe (this way, no more excessive ice filler)

- if you harvest too many berry bushes, a poisonous snake (or other enemy) will come out. You should rely in more different source food.

- fisherman will eat fish. Fisherman become hostile if you have fish in your inventory (like bunnyman for meat). Less free food this way

- more damage for the falling rock

 

Etc.

 

This way, people searching for difficulty will have what they want, without making the game unplayable for some others players.

 

Also, i think that we have all a different concept of what is fun, what is hard, what is boring and so.

 

Me, i would probably like the "if i have fish, fisherman become hostile" part, but not the "more damage for the falling rock". And i would like a more easy way to cure poison (with big downside on sanity), because poison is not fun early-game.

 

And maybe someone will find that poison is perfectly fine, and maybe too easy and will want to have a chance to poison yourself if you ate spoiled food.

For me, this kind of stuff would probably be tedious.

 

 

So you should find a balance for the base game. And if players want specifics things, mods should provide it.

 

I just think that there is a lack in mod making the game harder.

[CameoAppearance]

Adding an item =/= Adding a new character/boss

Come on now. Clearly creating an item is less time consuming and requires less time to balance than setting up a character which has completely new dialogue, animations, and voice.

 

As for its purpose? Who knows. I've never bothered with sandbags. Maybe it was for people who built their base on a beach near the Ocean.

You're definitely undermining how far in the tide goes though, because it's most certainly more than one tile. I've built numerous fires at the start of the game a decent distance away from the ocean, only for the tide to still reach the fire (to my surprise) and put it out.

 

I didn't mean making a new character or a new boss from scratch, I meant contributing to getting one of those things finished. It was an example of something that would be a better use of the developers' time than adding an item that does nothing except alleviate a minor inconvenience at considerable resource cost.

 

So... you don't know why sandbags need to be in the game if their only purpose is keeping the tide out, then. And your only suggestion is that they're for people who built their structures in the wrong place early on and are so opposed to hammering them down and rebuilding them that they would rather use up a large amount of bamboo and sand and shovel/machete durability to reclaim the area instead.

 

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to do that in the course of normal gameplay. Newbies wouldn't do it because they would be too busy struggling with keeping themselves fed and avoiding death by snakes or drowning or shadow monsters to go make a bunch of sandbags. They would probably just die on day twentysomething and put their structures somewhere better next time. Experienced players wouldn't do it because even if they put their first Shipwrecked base really close to the water before they knew there were tides, it takes less effort to destroy and replace your poorly placed science machine or crockpot (by the time you have the parts for an alchemy engine you'd have realised your mistake) than to wall off the whole shoreline.

[Mday]

HOW can players that are new in DS game provide real feedback to DLC of that game? Are you serious guys? You don't get to say how we should change Deerclops when you didn't even met him and can't get past day5! SW is expansion of DS (yes right now it is "standalone") so if someone have problem surviving in SW how about go play DS first like everyone else did? ALSO do you know someone who start playing ROG without trying DS first and have no problems surviving? I DONT and now i see beginners posting that SW is their first game and it is easy for them? :DDD I died in DS/ROG 328907430294823094x before it becomes "easy" and after hundreds of hours i put in these games it is still not that easy!

That is so true man.

I bet there are quite a few of those new players get owned by Charlie on day 1. How could one possibly know that, in a survival situation, stepped into the darkness and you will be owned in a few second? Bear Grylls for one would never imagined that.

[Gingerbread]

Yeah I actually found SW too easy. Especially after nerfing summer what we got? No threat. New seafoods are really OP such as banana pop and surf n turf. Sanity giving crockpot recipes should be nerfed. This hail using in crockpot recipes should be nerfed (to be honest completely removed and not be allowed)... Making ice should be more costly. Ice maker 3000 is simply a bullshit. You dont need farms or anything. In hurricane you again dont need farms. Simply put hail into crockpot and u are all set.

 

Sea creatures are extremely easy to kill except sharks. For example I would expect trickier attack pattern for sea creatures. It is too easy to adapt yourself to the pattern after couple of tries. That would be better if we could have kiting sea mob and a trickier mob that attacks you like a clockwork knight in base game (DS RoG)(not exactly similar pattern, you got my point). We need sea mobs with ranged attack.

[Talavaj]

If you think dodging fireballs and randomly spawning puddles is engaging... yeah.

It is dumb, boring, random, crappy tedium that is what it is.

 

I have played the game since it was in very early beta, and nope I don't like the dumb SW "seasons" either and I would just remove them from the game.

 

I want things like giants, not dumb crap that basically forces me to not play the game.

If I wanted to dodge fireballs I would play some endless runner, this is NOT the gameplay (if it even can be called that) that I want to see in Don't Starve and it is going to be the first thing I will turn off when they add world customization.

Oh but oops, then I will realize Capy are focusing on implementing tedium rather than content and that there isn't really anything else to do in the new expansion BUT to dodge fireballs.

[D7X]

To stop the tide from coming in.

Makes more sense than sandbags stopping a torrential rainfall coming from the damn sky, anyway.

 

 

I'm sorry but really? That makes more sense to you? Sandbags are used as protection against flooding from rainfall and the fallout of it in reality but no one in their right mind is piling up bags of sand in front of the ocean hoping to halt the tides.

 

If you want to stop tides in SW you only have to put down some turf anyway, sandbags are in the game to combat the flooding in spring, the evidence being that they combat the flooding.

[Cyde042]

 It's not the game that has to get harder, it's you who has to step down your game strategies because you mastered the game. There are more than enough ways to make the game more challenging, let's take SW for example:

• You kite everything and come out of battles unscratched? - Limit your arsenal to spear and no armor.
• Fighting poisonous enemies? - Don't wear poison protective gear.
• Gathering food is easy? Limit yourself only to veggies from farms. Enjoy the waiting.
• Food is OP? Make only low-tier crock pot recipes.
• Krampus sack is too forgiving on inventory management? - Put it down, take a thatch pack.
• Getting ice from the machine is too easy? - Go collect hail only.
• No grass, twigs, berry, mob farms.
• Sick of sedentary life? Go nomad.
• Boats are too fast and got too much health? Use the log raft, it's so slow it's good.
• Etc.

I wrote this in 5 min. Boom, game just got harder. But there is to note the supposed over-nerf of the volcanic eruptions(I didn't manage to test it out for myself) and that SW is still in alpha, things will change.

 

Just like in the RoG sub-forum where people complained that old bell shouldn't deal damage because it's an easy kill for giants, I will tell you the same:

 

This is a sandbox game other people's gameplay style doesn't affect you and vice-a-versa. It is their decision on how to play and not yours. No one forces you to resort to a specific gameplay style.

 

 

[Cyde042]

I'm sorry but really? That makes more sense to you? Sandbags are used as protection against flooding from rainfall and the fallout of it in reality but no one in their right mind is piling up bags of sand in front of the ocean hoping to halt the tides.

 

If you want to stop tides in SW you only have to put down some turf anyway, sandbags are in the game to combat the flooding in spring, the evidence being that they combat the flooding.

 

I think by tide he's referring to the ocean floods, like those during full-moons.

 

[someonefromcanada38]

I agree with your original point that the game is too easy, and it is getting easier due to changes to volcano season and other challenges being nerfed. The problem does not lie with the people wanting changes to make the game less unfair though (which is a lot of the reason people want things changed) this game is in alpha and that means a lot of the survival mechanics just plain don't work right or feel cheap and unfair instead of just hard. By release I expect almost everything to be different, and I don't expect it to be easier than ROG which ultimately became easy enough once you mastered it, but still could kill you if you made a mistake. Don't starve has never been unfair, and shouldn't be unfair, there has to be multiple ways to survive challenges or there is no point in playing it. Everyone plays differently and the game has always accepted and encouraged that, it is part of what makes it great to play.

 

Shipwrecked has killed me many many times already, I've been playing random, I've found the majority of characters have one significant weakness in shipwrecked which usually kills me. I run out of meat while exploring as Wigfrid, I go insane due to wetness as WX-78 who I've never even found gears with to date, because exploring is very difficult on a character that can't get wet. I found the new character falls off later on and becomes weak due to only having 120 health despite having most of the map explored. If you are finding everything too easy maybe you are making it too easy for yourself, play someone who sucks at something necessary, play wes, or try different strategies as opposed to your ultimate win scheme that you have obviously developed by now. I could very easily go 200 days in ROG I can't make it past 50-60 in shipwrecked, the reason is I ALWAYS spend significant time exploring the ocean in every game. Why would my character be happy sitting in one place with a crock pot and feeding it seaweed/limpets + monster meat nonstop to survive, I wouldn't be happy like that so why would I play that way? Sure I could definitely probably go 200 days just working on my survival, but there are other things to work on too that are just as important.

[PeerlessMind]

Don't starve has never been unfair, and shouldn't be unfair, there has to be multiple ways to survive challenges or there is no point in playing it. 

 

Which parts do you consider being unfair? Monsoon seasons flooding? Why is that unfair again? Do I have to use the whole "Winter negates the use of farms, period" argument again? Monsoon season prevents (and not even fully, mind you) then use of some machines. You're free to move them and have them working again, or just do without for 1 season. 

Point is, being locked out of certain things is no alien concept to DS. 

If you think dodging fireballs and randomly spawning puddles is engaging... yeah.

It is dumb, boring, random, crappy tedium that is what it is.

 

I have played the game since it was in very early beta, and nope I don't like the dumb SW "seasons" either and I would just remove them from the game.

 

I want things like giants, not dumb crap that basically forces me to not play the game.

If I wanted to dodge fireballs I would play some endless runner, this is NOT the gameplay (if it even can be called that) that I want to see in Don't Starve and it is going to be the first thing I will turn off when they add world customization.

Oh but oops, then I will realize Capy are focusing on implementing tedium rather than content and that there isn't really anything else to do in the new expansion BUT to dodge fireballs.

 

Sure. That's the very definition of engaging. Managing the weather which is messing with my base is more engaging than throwing some warm clothing on during winter or keeping cool during summer, or is that what you're looking for? More weather in which you make a piece of clothing and become completely immune to most of its effects.

"dumb", "boring", "tedius". Why do these words always pop up whenever somebody is complaining about something that kills them? Let's take old Volcano season (Which remember, I agree needed to be nerfed somewhat, just nowhere near to this extent). I keep hearing people saying it's "boring" that they're getting killed by the erruptions. Boring is not the word I would use when constantly needing to dodge falling rocks which could end your run at any time. That is tense, even with them being easy to dodge, it's still tense because of the very nature of them being 1 hit kill. Those are nothing but buzzwords now when you want to complain about something that you don't like, but feel the need to not have your skill called into question.

 

Don't worry, nobodies going to laugh you off of the forum because the nasty falling rocks killed you. Same with Monsoon seasons flooding. "But it doesn't do anything, I'll just break down all of my affected items and build them somewhere else"...well I have news for you, that takes resources and time if you want to salvage those items, which means the season is at least somewhat doing its job. Personally, I just do without certain things like my crockpot during that season if it gets engulfed by the flood water since all seasons are still too easy right now, but that problem is largely because the game is in alpha, and thus doesn't have enough content yet.

 

For all the negativity Capy are getting, I for one give them kudos for trying to shake things up. Sure, adding 1 hit kill elements to the game might not have been the right way to go about it, but making each weather effect have some form of desctructive element to it sounds great to me, and I'm glad they're going that route. They need to fine tune it, sure, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

I'm sorry but really? That makes more sense to you? Sandbags are used as protection against flooding from rainfall and the fallout of it in reality but no one in their right mind is piling up bags of sand in front of the ocean hoping to halt the tides.

 

Seriously? You make a post like this when you're ignorant to the fact that sandbags set across a beach have long since been a way of preventing the ocean from flooding into certain locations. A quick google search would tell you this. I'm so kind though, so I'll even help you myself with some pictures. 

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/1kr8nb/picture37388739/ALTERNATES/FREE_640/ntbbags

http://beachapedia.org/images/c/ca/Sandbags.jpg

 

Now feel free to show me people using sandbags to stop the rain, because that really will be a comedy gold thing to view. Last time I checked, the rain comes from the sky, not across the earths floor.

[Mday]

Now feel free to show me people using sandbags to stop the rain, because that really will be a comedy gold thing to view. Last time I checked, the rain comes from the sky, not across the earths floor.

 

[PeerlessMind]

 

 

Clear skies with not a single cloud in sight, and you're trying to tell me that they've been put out as a defense against rainwater?

As for the second image, again, no rain. That looks like a standard flood from rising tides, not a torrential downpour. 

[Mday]

Clear skies with not a single cloud in sight, and you're trying to tell me that they've been put out as a defense against rainwater?

As for the second image, again, no rain. That looks like a standard flood from rising tides, not a torrential downpour. 

I can post the news link if you wish, or you can do a google image search to find out exactly where those image come from?

[PeerlessMind]

I can post the news link if you wish, or you can do a google image search to find out exactly where those image come from?

 

Sure, throw those links my way.

[Mday]

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20111023/15731244

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Thailand_floods

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/brisbane-city-gets-back-to-work-to-assess-flood-losses/story-e6freon6-1225989873446

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Queensland_floods

 

Seems like I will have to do some drawing in order to explain to you how rain fall contribute to flooding, and how does sand bags comes in handy.:C

 

[PeerlessMind]

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20111023/15731244

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/brisbane-city-gets-back-to-work-to-assess-flood-losses/story-e6freon6-1225989873446

 

Seems like I will have to do some drawing in order to explain to you how rain fall contribute to flooding, and how does sand bags comes in handy.:C

First link : Rain isn't even mentioned once. 

Second link : Can't understand chinese to confirm/deny. 

 

Either way, let me ask you this.

If heavy rain is causing a flood and you set up a square perimeter of sandbags, as you would do in Don't Starve to protect your base, what will happen?

I'll tell you. The rainwater wouldn't be able to efficiently escape the sand bag prison that you've set up. It would be trapped on the inside and out. Now if you had a roof to go over those sandbags so that water couldn't enter from the sky, then sure, that would protect whatever is inside from the rain, but that isn't the case, so the sandbags are worthless in that situation.

 

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about this. This is basic knowledge. 

 

 

EDIT : Scratch that, this discussion is not going anywhere. It's derailing the thread and holds little relevance to the topic at hand.