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Kevin

Nov 29 Hot fix!

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winddbourne    15

This is my first post, I just started the game on the 25th after watching a few online videos about the game over the thanksgiving weekend. So this is a very new players perspective.

I use grass for almost everything. If you want to be nomadic grass tufts are needed for the campfires, though I can get away from that if I make permanent camps every so many feet, but that uses up rocks which I can't get back, and trees which are everywhere but are also used for a everything from chests, to log suits, to feeding my current fires.

I'm pretty much forced to settle down because being nomadic uses up resources faster, temporary campfires eat grass to make and grass can be the most available resource to fuel them, but not if I have to fertilize them like a farmer. Wandering also puts me in greater danger of running into wolves, tentacles, or other unknown dangers. I try to NEVER use pinecones to fuel my fire as they are used to replant trees and thus keep trees around on the map long term.

Also most resources are "local" they don't move unless I move them. Beefolo stay on the plains, werepigs stay near their houses, carrots are randomly deposited on grasslands mostly, and rabbits don't go far from their holes. So it's best for me to settle near to certain resources, and to cultivate the renewal and location of others. If you want nomadic players then some resources need to move across the entire map cyclically, like herds of deer or something. Something we need to chase, not simply camp on top of.

Having to fertilize grass and berries that I have NOT moved further discourages me from attempting a nomadic lifestyle as it means I'm "ruining" more and more resources as I move about, and eventually I'll wander into areas full of "dead" food sources that I have eaten bare without realizing it, or I'm going to have to simply try to carry around poop with me to fertilize each bush as I harvest it, and that would limit me to remaining close to either the pig houses or the beefolo fields.

Also the game is fairly challenging to start. I've yet to make it past day six even though I had a hands up in having seen a few videos. I'm getting better but it's tedious doing the same things all the time. I want to explore new locations, find new and different things, maybe build new stuff. It helps that my research carries over from one game to the next but I have a feeling that is a bug, not an intended feature.

If dying is supposed to be a big part of the game then it seems like I should be able to name my games and have a high score list, also different game slots would be nice. I have a copy for myself and my wife, but it would be nice to be able to compare our progress directly and compete for longest survival times with different characters or something.

Also if you keep ramping up the difficulty level you might want to have new threats, like the wolves, appear on the map slowly over time so that players have time to do some research and learn the ropes a bit. I fully understand that players with a fortress, tons of stuff, and a huge farm need something to challenge them, but that shouldn't be the same challenge I'm facing buck naked with a few flint tools while I explore the map for the first time on day one, or even day six! The map should not be static.

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NeedPants    18
I dunno, the problem - to me - is that you guys are going out of your way to use up stacks and stack of grass each and every day, when there are other resources available. Why are you using 20 Grass when 2 trees' worth of logs yield the same result? Trees generally give 2 acorns, so each full-size tree you cut down eventually becomes 2 full-sized trees... you could harvest stack after stack of logs and never have to worry about your grass dying and needing fertilizer. Gold Axes still last for 30+ trees, which is at least 120 logs, all for 4 Morsels fed to the King Pig.

Before Kevin goes off on a rebalancing-the-grass tangent, I hope everyone takes that into account. Sure, grass might be convenient for a lot of things, but instead of saying "Manure is ruining the game!" maybe you need to take a close look at your playstyle and why you're using so much grass.

I use about 20 grass in 10 in-game days. I only have to fertilize my "grass farm" once every blue moon. Why? Because I use Pine Cones and Logs for nightly fire fuel; I've practiced combat so I don't have to make as many Log Suits and Football Helmets; and because I mainly used Cooked Monster Meat (12 points) to fuel my research instead of Grass Tufts (20 points).

Now while I tend to agree that trying to re-fertilize 30+ grass that you planted all right next to each other is a pain in the rear... well... fertilizing a field of anything is time-consuming, tedious work without machinery.

TL; DR: Try using ALL your resources instead of abusing 50 grass/day to do everything with it. You can survive on 0-8 grass per day just fine if you put your mind to it, and then the "Grass Nerf" is suddenly no big deal because you're only wasting manure on your Grass Farm once every few in-game weeks.

Ur missing the point im afraid.

We know the alternatives, we have played this game alot. We know there will be mid and lategame content in the future. We know.

Point is its NOT FUN to repeat the same routines over and over to survive day after day. I know ppl with 400+ days on their char. They could have restarted 8 times and have 8 chars that got to day 50, where the content basically ends. At that point u have been to every biome, defeated one of every enemy, nothing is new anymore. So we dont restart 8 times, we keep our current char and try to do fun things, like building a tree maze for example.

Grass was the least time consuming survival aspect. Burns well, doesnt cost tools to collect, can be planted close to ur base all bunched up. That leaves alot more time for fun things that dont really have a purpose. This may seem a mute point coz its "all about surival" but picture it for a second. U want to find all possible recipies with froglegs for the crockpot. U need to gather about 20 froglegs to have a decent supply to experiment with.

There is like 4 pools in the swamp. This gathering alone is gonna take 5 days. So we need to gather food for 5 days and a spear, logsuit, backpack, helmet. We can hunt about 15 rabbits a day with just an axe. need 5 morsels to live a day, 10 morsels extra. Food gathering for the expedition is gonna take 3 days.

Another day for chopping wood for campfires and gather grass in the same day.

*crap* my farms ran out of manure, manure collecting day to get 24 manure to fertilize ur 4 farms to the max (seems a decent number of farms). 5 days time already.

Count in the occasional hound attack, the need to replace ur logsuit once in that time, suddenly no more gold for tools to chop the trees with. We can use our excess flint to make axes, but omg flint is finite and gold isnt and gold tools are way more relaxed for use. So we need to go trade meat to the pigking to get gold. takes a day to get there trade, get back etc.

Need to replace the meat we traded, 3 more days added.

9 days already, were talking about 2-2.5 hours realtime play iirc. U can say but these are all coincidences, the gold happened to run out etc. Thats not true tho, this ALWAYS happens lets be honest here. Then after these 9 days, u can finallys start collecting froglegs. 5 days more. total of 14 days spent b4 we can even START to experiment.

Introducing grass:

Make 5 traps, place them on rabbit holes, attack 1 rabbit and kill it, 5 other rabbits run into the trap above their hole. 6 morsels right there. Do this for a day, u got 40 morsels on top of the 5 u need to eat to live thru the day. In one day we did all taht. But now we didnt chop wood so lets light the fire with grass. Or better, sleep thru the night again by using grass, and quite a substantial amount of it. We didnt use axes to chop wood, we didnt need tools at all for this except a few axe hits on bunnies. We dont need to go to the pigking for gold.

14 days, 3 less coz we dont need to replace the food, 2 less coz gathering the food takes 1 day only, 1 less coz we dont need to see the pigking. 8 days left. But it gets better! The initial food gathering takes 2 days less which i already included. But that also means we have 2 days of manure left on the farms, and were not around to farm when we are in the marshes. So take out that day. Still need to chop wood and gather some extra grass to make campfires in the swamp. We still need to be in the swamp for 5 days coz there is only 4 pools in this case, so we need to wait for the frogs to respawn. WE brought the time needed to do this from 14 back to 7 days. We halfed it.

This was a mere example ofc. Seeing as to how important grass is to speed things up, it deserved a little nerf. But not to the point where grass is now the worst alternative. Now we are going to ahve to spend these 14 days to do whatever fun thing we had in mind. For most ppl, that is mutliple real life days due to the fact that they can only play for a few hours a day. lets say 2 days. Then on the third day u can start experimenting. U have filled 2 days with repeating content ur currently not interested in, in order to have some fun the 3rd day.

We dont need beehives to survive at all, but do we want them> YES we do. Tallbird eggs needed? No, but do we want them? Ofc we do. But doing all the extra unnecessary stuff takes time due to the things leading to excecuting ur idea. Im sorry but without these nutty ideas i wouldnt have nearly as much fun in the game. Not nearly. The game is simply not expansive enough yet. Seeing that 2/3rd of the content is rumored to still be released (mid and lategame), this is probably true.

The grassnerf increased what we call the "grind". And this is what we severly dislike.

What if they just increased grass regrowth time and reduced the flammability of it? We would have to switch to wood, or use ALOT more grass. Grass takes no tools to farm (which is a bigger deal than u may think) but needs to be collected first. With these nerfs, we could continue to rely on grass, but we would reach our selfsufficient state where we have alot of sparetime left over for non survival and more "for fun" content, at a later stage in the game. That would be slightly annoying i suppose, but eventually we would be in that state and be able to do things the way we want to.

Sure in the beginning of each plahthru itll be a huge gathering of tufts, wood, rock, etc to build up ur base. Once uve built it, it can sustain itself, which is much less time consuming than having to chop wood for fires. Holding down space u can gather 40 grass in 1,5 ingame hours. U can chop 2 of the biggest trees in the same timeframe. 8 wood and 4 pinecones do not even come close to 40 grass. And in all this i havent even included the much greater travel time u need for woodchopping since the trees arent right next to ur campfire, unlike the grass.

This became a much longer post than i intended sorry ;)

Point is we complain because we're forced to slow down. And we want to do so many things. Nerfs should be done step by step, not a huge overnerf leading to a small buff later.

Edited by NeedPants

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Kevin    3944

Hey guys. I've read all of your feedback and talked things over with the other devs.

I'm making a balance patch now. I'll post the details when I'm done.

You guys rock! Seriously, your "what I do in a day" reports were super useful!

  • Like 1

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Also it would be helpful if pigs did not set off bee mines, I have them around my camp for hounds when they attack and the roaming pigs keep going completely out of their way it seems almost like they are trying to set them off. And the Tall Birds are way too overpowered, I mean I can understand being close to their eggs and then chasing if you pick them up, but they try to maul you just for harvesting rocks even remotely close to them. You also for whatever reason cannot put them to sleep with darts. They also do not give up and they are twice as fast as you and you have no time in between attacks to add fuel to a fire or create a torch to keep from dying in the dark. I really think the nerfing of the golden tools is exaggerated, I mean 1 percent every chop with an axe and 1 % for every thing you dig up. You can basically forget even trying to harvest things for fuel and supplies. I mean you could just cut the tools life in half and that would be bad enough.

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ViVi    11
RIP tree walls.

The grass nerf seems a little much. I agree with just making them take more time to grow again.

...Or perhaps making that change only effect grass that was replanted, to encourage more scavenging instead of making farms?

i agree with this

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wild    10

Hey, been awhile since I've posted. I've been holding off playing the game for a bit, but still a huge fan and nightly reader of the forums. I agree with Marak here a little. And also agree that non-replanted grass should respawn on its own, over set length of time. I've always used the acorns for fuel btw. If anything it sounds like grass and manure are needed too frequently and there should be other resource requirements or even options for those things.

Personally I like the idea of survival not being completely bent on redundantly doing the same things over and over again.

Of course there needs to be some of that, but doing just that caters to only one play style.

On another thread we talked about diseases, and malnutrition..

Also, since we have dogs, maybe Rabies, etc.

Maybe sleepwalking or possession, where we wake up away from our camps.

Just a few more things that'll force us out from our shells.

I'm excited to hear about the end game Kev.

Also anxious to hear more about this Xmas demon.

+1 in favor of more dark elements and a -1 for more poop/grass gathering.

P.S. I like what Excess mentioend above.

This HAS to be added to the list of random things that appear when examining gravestones

It'd be kind of fun to have our whines and gripes, and expired nerfs on these stones.

Adds a bit of history to both the developers and testers.

Over-and-Out.

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Jetexx    10
Hey guys. I've read all of your feedback and talked things over with the other devs.

I'm making a balance patch now. I'll post the details when I'm done.

You guys rock! Seriously, your "what I do in a day" reports were super useful!

Thanks Kevin, I must admit with this new hotfix it was pretty darn hard to sustain all my plant life for food, supply's and light. But the fact that you had to use manure to regrow it I though it was a bit to0 harsh.

Just crank it up so it's not such a long time and journey for grass.

Edited by Jetexx
Anyone know why my Chrome is asking to leave page then post the same content twice?

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Jetexx    10
Hey, been awhile since I've posted. I've been holding off playing the game for a bit, but still a huge fan and nightly reader of the forums. I agree with Marak here a little. And also agree that non-replanted grass should respawn on its own, over set length of time. I've always used the acorns for fuel btw. If anything it sounds like grass and manure are needed too frequently and there should be other resource requirements or even options for those things.

Personally I like the idea of survival not being completely bent on redundantly doing the same things over and over again.

Of course there needs to be some of that, but doing just that caters to only one play style.

On another thread we talked about diseases, and malnutrition..

Also, since we have dogs, maybe Rabies, etc.

Maybe sleepwalking or possession, where we wake up away from our camps.

Just a few more things that'll force us out from our shells.

I'm excited to hear about the end game Kev.

Also anxious to hear more about this Xmas demon.

+1 in favor of more dark elements and a -1 for more poop/grass gathering.

P.S. I like what Excess mentioend above.

It'd be kind of fun to have our whines and gripes, and expired nerfs on these stones.

Adds a bit of history to both the developers and testers.

Over-and-Out.

I agree with you as well, with Excess's post.It would be pretty funny to see our random whines and nerfs on the gravestones.

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Jetexx    10
Jetexx are the forums running slow for you?

Second time for me though, so I don't really know. It was really annoying because it kept re posting the same thing twice or three times.

Any ideas would be helpful, thanks.

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Little Teemo    15
I dont get the point why you post hotfix here in gerneral Discussion.

For what reason you have the category annauncement ?

im not sure but mayb it's because this side is pretty active XD...i mean a lot of ppl gave their input and opinions so it did help the Dev team a lot....idk =/

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Toaster Fu    103
Second time for me though, so I don't really know. It was really annoying because it kept re posting the same thing twice or three times.

Any ideas would be helpful, thanks.

It's a forum thing, with all the new traffic it's been running slow.

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LadyD    3445

WE had a patch on the 29th. And a hotfix went through on the 30th.

They have changed a LOT of things including requirements of grass in crafting

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*grass tufts need manure to regrow

Not sure I like this change. I don't want everything to feel like farming. Also, since when does grass need encouragement from man to grow? It's usually the opposite: Make the grass stop growing!

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Jetexx    10
It's a forum thing, with all the new traffic it's been running slow.

Whew, thanks Toaster Fu thought there was something wrong with my browser. :)

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