Character Rebalance Discussion thread

[Palpetinus]

What if Wilson got a little bit (five points?) of sanity from prototyping things from any tier research lab? It would help keep noobs from going insane after the first week.

Uhm.. you already get sanity from prototyping.

[J20hawkz]

It's understandable if Wilson is normal. But half of his perk can be achieved by other characters, and in a much faster way thanks to beardlings. As it stands, Wilson's only real perk that stands out is winter insolation for an extra 135 seconds... Something that doesn't even take affect until after the first 20 days. That's pretty redundant and dull compared to all the other characters and their new changes.I was fine with Wilson being left unchanged at the start. But after seeing how much has actually changed with the other characters, my thoughts on that aren't the same. Just about everything that can be achieved with Wilson's perk, with the exception of the beard not taking up inventory space, can be achieved with the other characters in an easier way. He doesn't stand out anymore.That's just my view on the situation right now.

Exactly what I am trying to say. I'm talking from a person who has enjoyed playing as Wilson and learnt most if not all the in game mechanics. At first I thought cool, Wilson will be the same, but I wasnt aware how big the changes would be for all the other characters. Every character now has atleast one better perk than Wilson. Yes they do come with negatives but the postives more than balances them out. With Wilson obviously you dont have a choice in the beginning. But I can see people playing as him rushing through the game to get exp just to unlock another character to use. Thats not really fun and bieng the main character he has to have something awesome about him. A magnificent beard just doesnt cut it anymore.I dont see the obsession people are having over a beard. Its only because we love the game so much that we are used to it and it once added to the uniqueness of playing as Wilson. Anyone new to the game wont see it like that. Who in thier right mind would think having a "magnificent beard" as a perk is a good thing? When they look at the other characters they will lol at poor Wilson :(If you look back at any game the main character always had something fun or exciting about them that gave the gamer a reason to pick them even if the end game unlockable "god mode" character was so much better. I'm sorry but comapring all the new changes for each character to Wilson isnt really much to compare beacuse they are all better than him in every way possible. Dont tell me you think he is good because we get beard hair more easier or it keeps us warm, both these things can be easily obtained with any of the other characters. Wilson cant use a lighter, he doesnt have a ghost or "pet" as a bodygaurd, he cant summon lightning, he isnt immune to fire, he cant eat spoiled food, he cant make objects that distract enemy mobs, all he has is a beard....You might aswell get rid of the beard because his perk is next to useless now. Someone posted that he has no negatives so whats the problem? He has a 4th slot for free. Look at those perks then look at the perks on all the other chatacters. Now you tell me who has pulled the shortest straw. Obviously the others have to have equally worth negatives to balance out thier "unique" and highly fun abilities. If they didnt they would be too OP. Wilson doesnt need negatives to make him fun to use he needs something unique. A "magnificent beard" just doesnt cut it for me. The best idea for Wilson should revolve around him bieng a scienist/inventor. Give him the science lab. It can be a new crafting tab unique to him only. Inventors invent new things and improve on older things. He can make potions or what ever to improve the base damage of his gear for a set amount of time. Chemicals that improve the growth rate of plantable resources. Chemicals reduce the rotting of foods. You can go wld with him. Make him "Wilson the genious with a magnificent beard" not "Wilson who? The guy with the beard"I respect that this is your game and you have the right to do what you want. But you been kind enough to let us know what you intend to do. If this was final I doubt we would have found out till it came out officially. At the end of the day your giving us your game to us to play and enjoy. I know I shouldnt complain about one little thing, you have already given us so much. But I want his game to be perfect aswell. Sorry if I come across as bieng harsh but this is coming from a big fan of the game and a big fan of all your work. Just recently bought Mark Of The Ninja because of the love I had for this game I knew it would be equally as good. Please do something for Wilson :)Kind Regards. Edited June 20, 2013 by J20hawkz

[Ridley]

If only Wilson had a ability like Wes that was mostly cosmetic but fun to play with. Maybe some more interaction with his environment.Wilson is cool but his perks aren't interesting enough to keep everyone's attention, and I feel like the beard is going to have a negative side when anti-winter comes.

[Leaven]

Just read the Wickerbottom changes (sorry if mentioned before but this thread is now 80+) and I have to say I don't like the "books". Reading them causes stuff to happen? Sounds like Wickerbottom is becoming a sorceress rather than a librarian, especially considering she can already build magic items without a Shadow Manipulator. Unless that's going to become part of her back-story somehow? Also can she not sleep at all, or only at night? (like maybe she can sleep during the day or only at dusk, and wakes up at night?)

[Cozyhut3]

Uhm.. you already get sanity from prototyping.

Huh. What if he got a little more of it then?

[J20hawkz]

Huh. What if he got a little more of it then?

Thats your way of making Wilson just as fun as playing as the others? Getting an increase in sanity isnt hard anyway. We all play around with sanity to get nightmare fuel and easily bump it up with tents, rolls, pigs etc. Edited June 20, 2013 by J20hawkz

[Cozyhut3]

Thats your way of making Wilson just as fun as playing as the others?

Nope. That's just my way of making him noob-friendly.

[J20hawkz]

Nope. That's just my way of making him noob-friendly.

All the characters are noob friendly anyway. Playing and surviving in this game isnt exactly hard and anyone who is finding it hard isnt trying. Organising is key, once you get that sorted you can survive for days. Wilson is noob friendly yes but he is made completely redundant now to anyone not new to the game.

[jbeetle]

I just hope if Kevin does decide to change Wilson it's because he decided it was necessary (which it's not) and not because of whining.Too bad Wilson didn't start off without a beard ability. Then if it was added as a new perk people would be like oooh ahhh that's so cool (and yes, it is cool, either way).

[J20hawkz]

I just hope if Kevin does decide to change Wilson it's because he decided it was necessary (which it's not) and not because of whining.Too bad Wilson didn't start off without a beard ability. Then if it was added as a new perk people would be like oooh ahhh that's so cool (and yes, it is cool, either way).

Whining? I thought people were allowed to discuss and share thier feelings on a discussion thread. Its a good thing his beard was added at the start because if it was the only thing he got added to him after what was added to the others that would have been an even bigger cause to be upset. I dont see why you would have an objection to this. Its a character update thread and one character who most people like using isnt getting the tlc that the others are. The only reason we are getting back is that he is a character for the newbs. And its not just a beard its a "magnificent beard" sorry but both reasons are kind of lame. Its fine if Wilson wont get updated I'm more than happy to play as any of the other characters. But its still a let down. Edited June 20, 2013 by J20hawkz

[jbeetle]

Fine. The word "whining" was a bit harsh.

[Maximum124]

Whining? I thought people were allowed to discuss and share thier feelings on a discussion thread. Its a good thing his beard was added at the start because if it was the only thing he got added to him after what was added to the others that would have been an even bigger cause to be upset. I dont see why you would have an objection to this. Its a character update thread and one character who most people like using isnt getting the tlc that the others are. The only reason we are getting back is that he is a character for the newbs. And its not just a beard its a "magnificent beard" sorry but both reasons are kind of lame. Its fine if Wilson wont get updated I'm more than happy to play as any of the other characters. But its still a let down.

If you're really worried about Wilson; wait until the next update. Any unfairness or inequity should become more apparent, and people will notice. Kevin already stated he didn't want to change Wilson right now anyway, so right now the rebalance is focused more on the other characters.

[J20hawkz]

Fine. The word "whining" was a bit harsh.

Its cool. I'm in a good mood anyway. Just got my Samsung Galaxy S4 through the post today :)Btw you sir have a thumbs up and a comment for your cuddly chester artwork. Nice one.

[brummbar7]

Look at those perks then look at the perks on all the other chatacters. Now you tell me who has pulled the shortest straw. Obviously the others have to have equally worth negatives to balance out thier "unique" and highly fun abilities.

All right, let's look at your logic in reverse:Willow has a lighter. Ooooo, big huge perk. How many times have you died from having no light? The answer for me is once. It's just an infinite torch, it's not truly unique. It's a perk useful in Darkness world and little else. And honestly, do you have that much trouble with light in Darkness? I mean, anyone who's played adventure mode more than once is going to find that trivial, aren't they? That's your standard right? Whether an experienced player can do the same thing easier? Personally I'd rather have a light source with radius. Her fire immunity has yet to come into big time play. Sanity bonus from being near fire may be significant, but well, you've already said sanity bonuses are trivial so scratch that.Wendy has a follower. OMG! It's not like I can't go out and hire 5 pigs, or rock lobsters, to roll with me anywhere. It's not hard to get monster meat (or any meat) to hire them. So I guess Wendy is redundant since I can get a better group of followers for more or less the same effort. Hell, she'll NEED more followers to account for her reduced damage.WX can boost his stats. It's a great advantage, but it's not unique in the same way Abigail is, or even Wes's balloons. You'll max it out and then where's the fun? It's just a stat boost. You've already indicated it's not hard to regen sanity, we all know it's not hard to keep fed. So mainly it's a health thing. But we're all experienced right? Is that really a problem? Lightning strikes happen so rarely I consider that 'perk' to be rather trivial, and offset by the rain damage anyway, quite possibly. Wolfgang we don't know exact numbers on, but again, he's getting TWO sanity penalties, and again, similar to WX, stat boosts (which may or may not be different from before). They're nice, but they're invisible numbers and not truly unique. And we're all experienced so we don't need them anway. He'll change graphically which might be fun and interesting, especially if at the top end he 'hulks out'.Wickerbottom, has some books and a crafting tab unique to her. Depending on one's playstyle this may or may not be great. Personally I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt on them, but as I read them now I'm not envisioning them as that great for my playstyle. Certainly not WOW GEE AWESOME stuff. Out of everyone, Wendy and Wicker have the most unique perks that are useful. Wes's is unique but sounds like it won't be overly useful. Willow's fire immunity will probably be very useful later. You should examine your standards from a broader perspective.

The best idea for Wilson should revolve around him bieng a scienist/inventor. Give him the science lab.

Agreed. If by "science lab" you mean "mad science tab".

[J20hawkz]

All right, let's look at your logic in reverse:Willow has a lighter. Ooooo, big huge perk. How many times have you died from having no light? The answer for me is once. It's just an infinite torch, it's not truly unique. It's a perk useful in Darkness world and little else. And honestly, do you have that much trouble with light in Darkness? I mean, anyone who's played adventure mode more than once is going to find that trivial, aren't they? That's your standard right? Whether an experienced player can do the same thing easier? Personally I'd rather have a light source with radius. Her fire immunity has yet to come into big time play. Sanity bonus from being near fire may be significant, but well, you've already said sanity bonuses are trivial so scratch that.Wendy has a follower. OMG! It's not like I can't go out and hire 5 pigs, or rock lobsters, to roll with me anywhere. It's not hard to get monster meat (or any meat) to hire them. So I guess Wendy is redundant since I can get a better group of followers for more or less the same effort. Hell, she'll NEED more followers to account for her reduced damage.WX can boost his stats. It's a great advantage, but it's not unique in the same way Abigail is, or even Wes's balloons. You'll max it out and then where's the fun? It's just a stat boost. You've already indicated it's not hard to regen sanity, we all know it's not hard to keep fed. So mainly it's a health thing. But we're all experienced right? Is that really a problem? Lightning strikes happen so rarely I consider that 'perk' to be rather trivial, and offset by the rain damage anyway, quite possibly. Wolfgang we don't know exact numbers on, but again, he's getting TWO sanity penalties, and again, similar to WX, stat boosts (which may or may not be different from before). They're nice, but they're invisible numbers and not truly unique. And we're all experienced so we don't need them anway. He'll change graphically which might be fun and interesting, especially if at the top end he 'hulks out'.Wickerbottom, has some books and a crafting tab unique to her. Depending on one's playstyle this may or may not be great. Personally I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt on them, but as I read them now I'm not envisioning them as that great for my playstyle. Certainly not WOW GEE AWESOME stuff. Out of everyone, Wendy and Wicker have the most unique perks that are useful. Wes's is unique but sounds like it won't be overly useful. Willow's fire immunity will probably be very useful later. You should examine your standards from a broader perspective.Agreed. If by "science lab" you mean "mad science tab".

I have never died from no light. I havent really found anything difficult to overcome. Its a logical game. It gets dark you make a fire, you get hungry you make some food. Its logical yet fun. You completely misunderstood me, sorry for not making it more clear. My only let down is that Wilson is a very important character in game. Anyone can recognise he is the main character. A beard for a perk that serves as keeping warm, gives us extra space which isnt a perk as space for me isnt a problem as I'm so organised and makes getting beard hair easier are not unique compared to the unique perks that each of the other characters are getting. Everything Wilson has that is an advantage any of the other characters can have also, its just a bit more work to get them. Its not a matter of what the other characters have its a simple matter of what does Wilson have that makes him special. Only game design that adds hair growth to his face. My only worry now is that Kevin reading all this will be put off completely from ever updating Wilson. But its a view that not only I have. And yes I ment what you mean about the science thing. Edited June 20, 2013 by J20hawkz

[D7X]

Seeing as Wilson is a mad scientist and all it'd be cool if he didn't need the research machines. Instead he just unlocked each tier the more insane he got, ending at <30 where he can make Shadow Manipulator stuff. Maybe a bit similar to Wickerbottom's ability but it'd suit his character.Not quite sure how carpeted flooring would work as a mad scientists greatest invention though.

[Maximum124]

Seeing as Wilson is a mad scientist and all it'd be cool if he didn't need the research machines. Instead he just unlocked each tier the more insane he got, ending at <30 where he can make Shadow Manipulator stuff. Maybe a bit similar to Wickerbottom's ability but it'd suit his character.Not quite sure how carpeted flooring would work as a mad scientists greatest invention though.

Its pretty easy to go nuts if you know what you're doing, and would this mean if you go sane you lose you're crafting abilities? It doesn't sound very fun at all to go nuts just to craft something you could easily get otherwise. Just the whole extreme fluxes in sanity sound like a waste of time and resources.

[D7X]

Its pretty easy to go nuts if you know what you're doing, and would this mean if you go sane you lose you're crafting abilities? It doesn't sound very fun at all to go nuts just to craft something you could easily get otherwise. Just the whole extreme fluxes in sanity sound like a waste of time and resources.

Well you'd have to go insane to prototype stuff after that you could build it whenever. I'd say you could build the machines as well, but yeah given how easy it is to go insane it wouldn't really be that fair. Unless you increased his max sanity or something.

[Maximum124]

Well you'd have to go insane to prototype stuff after that you could build it whenever. I'd say you could build the machines as well, but yeah given how easy it is to go insane it wouldn't really be that fair. Unless you increased his max sanity or something.

Yeah but that would basically make him Maxwell, and what would Maxwell do if he knew his dapperness was less then Wilson's?Probably cry.Cry a whole lot.

[balard]

Love the way Wilson is. He is the base character. It's essential that he doesn't have a negative, so players can learn the basics. The game "as it's supposed to be played". All the other characters can be good, or have cool stuff, but they are the "new" characters. They have to entice the guy who is surviving with Wilson for hundreds of days, so he goes play then.If Wilson get other perk, it has to be always positive, and as unobtrusive to game play as his beard. He can't be cool, he have to be very simple.

[J20hawkz]

I had a good think about it. Looked at both sides of the story regarding Wilson. In all honesty it makes sense what plans Kevin has. I wont be disapointed if Wilson doesnt get anything, if he does it will just a nice bonus. Either way I'll be playing as either Willow or Wendy next. Keep up the good work Kevin and team

[Orima-Kazooie]

I actually personally love the idea of sanity levels unlocking research tiers but *IS* too complicated for WIlson and it would have to be playtested for balancing an awfully lot.I'd agree that shadow-tier only be available at total insanity

[Kevin]

Man, this new character is taking longer than I thought. It's a lot more complicated than everyone else. I think any Maxwell changes are going to have to be put off to a future update. Boo.

[Nebulous]

[unpopular opinion]My 2 cents.

At this point we don't know if Wilson needs rebalancing. We've seen the text of everyone else's perks and drawbacks but we haven't seen how they play. Maybe the lighter is useless, maybe Abigail is an OP monster, maybe Wolfgang shrinks down into a funny-looking weak guy if he goes a single day without berries. We don't know because we haven't played them.

It's like any other playtest. It's called a playtest not a readtest. At the moment all we have is Kevin showing us shiny things before they're finished.

Let's see how the rebalance works before deciding how badly Wilson's beard stacks against Wickerbottom's books.[/unpopular opinion]

[J20hawkz]

Man, this new character is taking longer than I thought. It's a lot more complicated than everyone else. I think any Maxwell changes are going to have to be put off to a future update. Boo.

We believe in you Kevin. You can do it!!