Don't Starve Together state

[Milordo]

I would never, ever, see a future version of myself, in 2025, posting a Beard777 video to make a point but here we are.

 

I don't know what to say, I'm speechless. This video completely resonates with me, with everything. I know posting something about this, especially if it is beard777, allerts some wasp mind and ruffles some feathers, but I please everyone with an open mind to tell me what do you think about it. How you feel recently about dst, especially after 2023, because I will still die to a hill by saying and thinking that this "second era" of modern dst is bad and 2023 was by far the worst year (yes even worse than 2018 for old heads) in contrast to 2019-2022 where they were the best years ever to the franchise and the best time to play! It doesn't help that, meanwhile I'm very busy at work to stay at home playing dst, I discovered not too long ago, a post by @Pedrolar27 already shouting these exact feelings.

 

Also as always, yeah, skill trees = bad. Don't worry, my second coming about skill trees will come, take patience. I know maybe someone is still waiting about that lol.

[Well-met]

the sad fact is character refreshes and skill trees have drained klei of valuable years of dev time to flesh out the updates aimed to develop the world and lore and we're never getting that time back.

Now just watch as they announce they're done with DST once those 2 next updates are over with.

also this man is unbearable to watch and listen to, however I fully agree with his points.

[Anis5240]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

the sad fact is character refreshes and skill trees have drained klei of valuable dev time to flesh out the updates aimed to develop the world and lore and we're never getting that time back.

ok but literally no one ever say that skill trees should be done as it was right now. Wilson's """"""""refresh"""""""" could just have the skill tree stuff put into his basekit and no one would ever say a thing. instead it's klei's own fault digging their grave doing yet another round of character updates. we could just have a small character update like how wortox had during wicker's update but nooooooooooo

[lowercase skye]

38 minutes ago, Milordo said:

this "second era" of modern dst is bad and 2023 was by far the worst year (yes even worse than 2018 for old heads) in contrast to 2019-2022 where they were the best years ever to the franchise and the best time to play!

In 2019-2022, I saw constant frequent posts about how it was the worst time for DST ever, in contrast to the golden age of 2015-2018. I think it's just sort of the natural way the human brain works to see the period that just passed as being the best ever, while the current one is the worst. In reality, the game has stayed very consistent for a decade or so now.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

I would never, ever, see a future version of myself, in 2025, posting a Beard777 video to make a point but here we are.

 

I don't know what to say, I'm speechless. This video completely resonates with me, with everything. I know posting something about this, especially if it is beard777, allerts some wasp mind and ruffles some feathers, but I please everyone with an open mind to tell me what do you think about it. How you feel recently about dst, especially after 2023, because I will still die to a hill by saying and thinking that this "second era" of modern dst is bad and 2023 was by far the worst year (yes even worse than 2018 for old heads) in contrast to 2019-2022 where they were the best years ever to the franchise and the best time to play! It doesn't help that, meanwhile I'm very busy at work to stay at home playing dst, I discovered not too long ago, a post by @Pedrolar27 already shouting these exact feelings.

 

Also as always, yeah, skill trees = bad. Don't worry, my second coming about skill trees will come, take patience. I know maybe someone is still waiting about that lol.

Tbh i mostly agree with everything beard has said in his video. I still can play this game and enjoy it, including some of the new content (alot i dont play with because i don't enjoy it, mainly riffs) but i feel like this game is losing its identity.

The state of the game feels extremely unhealthy for me. There is a lot of things i feel like are super clunky and mess with my experience (riff updates and most skilltrees). 

 

Marotters and the rabbit king are the few things we got this year that actually feel great. Actual critters that impact my survival rather than just an rpg element for me to fight. There are different outcomes when ignoring marotters and the rabbit king which i like.

23 minutes ago, lowercase skye said:

In 2019-2022, I saw constant frequent posts about how it was the worst time for DST ever, in contrast to the golden age of 2015-2018. I think it's just sort of the natural way the human brain works to see the period that just passed as being the best ever, while the current one is the worst. In reality, the game has stayed very consistent for a decade or so now.

I think it was because most people despised the ocean. It still had no reward, so for a lot of people ocean updates were no update i would guess.

[Milordo]

30 minutes ago, Well-met said:

the sad fact is character refreshes and skill trees have drained klei of valuable years of dev time to flesh out the updates aimed to develop the world and lore and we're never getting that time back.

Now just watch as they announce they're done with DST once those 2 next updates are over with.

Man, I just want some some cloths, foods, crock pot, caves, ruins, ocean now, bosses, fighting and other items/structures rework/balancing. I'm literally STARVING it since 2019. Depth of Duplicity and the previous one about the ocean were a godsend 

30 minutes ago, Well-met said:

also this man is unbearable to watch and listen to, however I fully agree with his points.

Thanks very much for your open minded response. I again too, never expected this from Beard and it's not about agreeing or disagreeing with him, me vs them, right or wrong. It's about serious constructive criticism about the game and Klei.

[2D_Lesobur]

What i truly hate is how we've gone from asking "What?" to "What's next?" 
 Back in the day nothing was clear, everything required a theory, an explanation.  The game actually felt concrete, it had an entire world behind it that we couldn't see, and now what? We just have a big hole in the ground with forces that will most definetly not be explained as they rely purely on magical thinking, and a big angry rock in the sky. Aside from them, everything in the world doesn't matter anymore. 
 Klei themselves have invested into this chess and theater thematic, and that's exactly how the game feels now. Instead of actually participating in the world and percieving it through our own senses, we have been demoted to simply watching a play, and a scuffed one at that.
 The content they add is not bad per say, it's just... Not special anymore. Soulles, even.

[Milordo]

27 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

ok but literally no one ever say that skill trees should be done as it was right now. Wilson's """"""""refresh"""""""" could just have the skill tree stuff put into his basekit and no one would ever say a thing. instead it's klei's own fault digging their grave doing yet another round of character updates. we could just have a small character update like how wortox had during wicker's update but nooooooooooo

Can we pinpoint this as a painting? Literally who asked about skill trees??? IN DON'T STARVE. 

If you said it years before, everyone would have laugh at you. Also also also, IF and IF skill trees, were only a Wilson thing, I would completely 100% accept them in the game. 

[Jakepeng99]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Man, I just want some some cloths, foods, crock pot, caves, ruins, ocean now, bosses, fighting and other items/structures rework/balancing. I'm literally STARVING it since 2019. Depth of Duplicity and the previous one about the ocean were a godsend 

Yeah. I have been starving for this kind of stuff. 

I see more people who want this kind of stuff than the current stuff.

[Milordo]

26 minutes ago, lowercase skye said:

In 2019-2022, I saw constant frequent posts about how it was the worst time for DST ever, in contrast to the golden age of 2015-2018. I think it's just sort of the natural way the human brain works to see the period that just passed as being the best ever, while the current one is the worst. In reality, the game has stayed very consistent for a decade or so now.

Whaaaaaat? I NEVER saw these posts you're saying. Also I'm not coming out of nowhere. To give some background and context, I said those years were beautiful even during 2019-2022. Character reworks that WE asked during 2016-2018, new free content and BALANCE that we prayed for a loonnngg time (farming rework, items, waves rework, ecc....). I never watched 2018, nor remember as "aaahhh yes those were the days", when should I remind what happened during that time? People were panicking (myself included) that don't starve would have died. 

Don't take this as an attack or aggression towards your comment ahah, I'm just very emotional and have a lot of deep logical reasons to say the things I say. I get your pacific thinking but there are real problems and issues right now in the game, this is not a consistent state. Especially if the same developers are anxious too!

[Anis5240]

12 minutes ago, Milordo said:

If you said it years before, everyone would have laugh at you.

everyone been laughing already when I suggested Wilson to have beard shield, but now? they actually acknowledge how horrible his skill tree was

[goblinball]

47 minutes ago, lowercase skye said:

In 2019-2022, I saw constant frequent posts about how it was the worst time for DST ever, in contrast to the golden age of 2015-2018. I think it's just sort of the natural way the human brain works to see the period that just passed as being the best ever, while the current one is the worst. In reality, the game has stayed very consistent for a decade or so now.

This is the case with literally any franchise ever lmao, give the community a couple years and they’ll start praising skill trees and rift content 

[Milordo]

26 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Tbh i mostly agree with everything beard has said in his video. I still can play this game and enjoy it, including some of the new content (alot i dont play with because i don't enjoy it, mainly riffs) but i feel like this game is losing its identity.

The state of the game feels extremely unhealthy for me. There is a lot of things i feel like are super clunky and mess with my experience (riff updates and most skilltrees). 

Marotters and the rabbit king are the few things we got this year that actually feel great. Actual critters that impact my survival rather than just an rpg element for me to fight. There are different outcomes when ignoring marotters and the rabbit king which i like.

Taking long pauses of 1-2 months. Playing at your own pace. Meeting a lot of new players/people. Sometimes a challenge run. Sometimes a speedrun/rush run.

This is what I've been doing since 2021 and it's the best healthy way to take the game as of now! 

I still never touched skill trees since 2023 and exploring now full blind rifts with my own gripes.

33 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I think it was because most people despised the ocean. It still had no reward, so for a lot of people ocean updates were no update i would guess.

This I can see.

[Dr. Safety]

I think a big problem is that they are squeezing character refreshes, content updates (both early and late game), and story progression all into these updates. The gameplay is the main priority, so the "story progression" has actually just been content updates disguised as story progression. Beard brings up an interesting topic at the end of the video, and that is the finale when it comes to story and lore.

How would you all feel about the story of DST being finished? They could still update things and add new content/bosses/items, Terraria is still adding new bosses and items (occasionally) despite the final boss being added 7 years ago (I know Terraria is not DST, and DST is very story driven, but still). Honestly, I don't think it would be the worst thing, if the "ending" was left ambiguous, and opens up possibilities of more in the future.

I think Klei's best course of action right now is to crank out the rest character skill trees, with some content sprinkled in that builds up to something big. We will complain about the updates, it will be a lot of the same stuff that it has been, but we need to get through that. Then, once everyone has their shiny new skill trees, suddenly all the build up reaches a breaking point. Everything the survivors have been fighting for has been for this moment. Make something big happen that effects not just the survivors, but Charlie and Wagstaff too. It's all or nothing for every character involved. I won't tell Klei how to write their story, but the ending can literally be that the survivors are still stuck. It can be that they are still left trying to find a way out after the war. This leaves the door open for potentially more story at a later time, but if they make the ending satisfying enough, more story might not even be necessary.

Then once the story is done (for now), and the character refreshes 2.0 are out of the way, they can finally focus on content that doesn't have to have meaning. They seem to enjoy making content that doesn't have story significance, and trying to force it to have story significance (like Moon Quay) takes away from the content itself imo.

[Cheggf]

14 minutes ago, goblinball said:

This is the case with literally any franchise ever lmao, give the community a couple years and they’ll start praising skill trees and rift content 

Yeah, give it a few more years and everyone who played the game before skill trees were added won't be playing the game any more so there won't be anyone left who dislikes skill trees since they're not here any more. 

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Anis5240 said:

ok but literally no one ever say that skill trees should be done as it was right now. Wilson's """"""""refresh"""""""" could just have the skill tree stuff put into his basekit and no one would ever say a thing

Even then I assumed Wilson's Refresh WAS the skill tree. Then the skill tree template could be utilized for modders since the base kit was present. Klei would be hands off for other character Skill Trees, but given Wilson would be the only character with a skill tree it would have been super unique and awesome as a refresh. But then they did Wormwood, Wolfgang, and Woodie which... was a huge mistake imo. (even though I personally fought to try and better the WW skill tree, doesn't mean I wanted the skill tree in the first place. If you have to eat food you hate, at least make it tolerable to consume.)

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah, give it a few more years and everyone who played the game before skill trees were added won't be playing the game any more so there won't be anyone left who dislikes skill trees since they're not here any more. 

Me and World of Warcraft. With the whole "there won't be anyone left who dislikes it" I held onto that game for 3 expansions longer than I should have solely because I wanted the story to conclude. Eventually the last legitimate Big Bad was defeated and I just lost interest.

[Anis5240]

12 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Wilson's Refresh

the only actual 'rework' he had was extra funny shaving beard in stages. like, ???????? If he could shave and gain one beard hair at a time, I'd guess it's decent - aka I can retain the magnificent beard and still get enough beard hair for a quick meat effigy. But nooooooooooo

[BezKa]

I'm not watching a video that is gonna make me sad, but I just have to say that Skill Trees were, and still are, the biggest mistake ever made by Klei. And it's too late, after the massacre that was Wendy's tree there is no hope they'll ever backtrack on them. (Yes, the trees were a horrible idea and I'll never stop saying this. But Klei did NOT deserve the state the forums were in this whole time. The behavior of some people made me realize being kind really is an effort, and if I don't make one, I'll end up sounding just like them.) 

The updates themselves suffer from trees taking up time and power creeping whatever the devs are adding.

That's not to say I don't believe in Klei. Everyone makes mistakes, skill trees are one, but they did make literally the rest of the game. There's still thousands of things I love about it. I still boot it up and hum along to the music, and I still love the gameplay loop, and the characters are still deep and interesting. The mobs are still beautifully designed. The rifts, while unfinished and feeling eh on some fronts, have their good sides. There are many things we got these past few years I really liked.

Whatever Klei makes, we can only really judge it once we get it, so there's no point despairing about what we don't know, and they have said many times they do want to hear constructive criticism on what we have now, we just have to do it without being nasty towards anyone.

And if it comes to the worst... Don't Starve is right here, exactly the way I love it, with no changes in sight.

 

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Anis5240 said:

the only actual 'rework' he had was extra funny shaving beard in stages. like, ???????? If he could shave and gain one beard hair at a time, I'd guess it's decent - aka I can retain the magnificent beard and still get enough beard hair for a quick meat effigy. But nooooooooooo

Point is, his refresh would have been the skill tree if no one else got the skill tree. But that didn't happen so Wilson got nothing.

[Uedo]

I just want them to finish the mainline story. I said like 2 years ago that Klei keep doing the G R R Martin tactic of constantly promising it'll all pay off in the end. I'm bored of waiting, the end isn't in sight, finish what you started. Nobody wants to be stuck in an eternal never ending story.

I'm not one to pull up other games, but i've been playing FF14 for years now and it has a continuing storyline that spans across expansions. They concluded their main story and began a new one. Do the same... please.

[PunkShark]

Ahh, i do love the monthly complaint of the game's direction that we get for years and years. Really gets the week going. With rose tinted glasses so tight it could make Winona jealous. Literally happens with every single arc and yet here we are once again. Complaining about an arc that isn't finished, a varied schedule that we've had since day one which is also very healthy for klei so they don't get burnt out, more lore videos than we can count compared to the past.

People looove to complain about the present and act like the past was a cakewalk when it never has been. RoT had so many complaints, regarding where its going, the balancing of it, the whole concept of boats, ocean being empty, not being Sw. But no now people are used to it so it isn't that big of a deal anymore. ANR's main content still gets a lot of critique, toadstool, bee queen, fuelweaver. But rifts being unfinished? Heresy. Skill trees making characters more fun and interesting? Despicable.

You wanna talk about years where we basically got nothing for like 2-3 years? During the forge and gorge era, and apart from a couple of events and one celestial portal update we were left for a while with just those. No lore, no cinematics, no reworks, no actual content updates. Yeah we hit a few bumps throughout the FB journey so what, it was both new for us and for klei. Wendy's feedback was agonizing, so one or 2 skill trees showcase that things can get a bit hectic doesn't mean it's the end of the world or a "i told you so" moment. The skill trees have also had a massively great impact on characters as well and i don't doubt it's gonna happen again with the rest.
Compared to those years it makes these look like sunshine and rainbows. Cause at least we're getting something out of it. Lots of it. If you want to always look at the negatives of things then you will only notice those things and dwell on it.
 

[Maxil20]

I really don't get the point of posts like this. DST certainly has been shifting ups and downs, but saying that the "modern" era (and especially 2023????) is an overall """bad""" state is really silly.

Keep in mind, I've been here for a very long time. I have been here since people thought SW for DS was the "bad" Game and DST was the "good" one, then it got inverted when A New Reign came out, then got inverted again when they focused on events (This is when I started seeing people call the game "Dead" in general), inverted again after hamlet finished, and now apparently DST is on a downfall again since Return of Them because of new skilltrees and rift content.

I don't get why people don't stop and look at if they are actually enjoying the game and maybe taking some time away from it. When I had some burnout of DST in 2022- early 2023, I didn't go on the forums and rant or get mad at the direction the game was going. I took a break and just played other games with some friends of mine that also didn't feel like playing DST at the time, and it was a really fun experience. I got back into the game after, and it was nice to mess around with the content I had only really lurked on.

 

[AliceShiki]

... Aren't skill trees some of the most popular updates Klei ever delivered?

They get way more engagement in beta than updates without skill trees, and if an update has both skill trees and non-skill tree stuff, the beta usually has way more threads about the skill tree IIRC.

So uhn... I think the game is fine?

[Walrusst]

But the character reworks have been feast for me personally, since its interesting to load a new character and have priorities I would have never considered previously.
Not saying the old kits lacked some of this, but the skill trees have made certain random forgotten resources jump to the forefront and become key pinnacles of what I am getting involved with. The meta-progression side of things feels out of place, but the gameplay impact I like enough to get over my aversion.

Obviously, its usually optimal to just to rush the main story path, but say you are on a server and you see the next four tasks being taken by other people. You realize there are 10 days before a major landmark tasks going to take place, what do you do? Well, characters having such wild  and interesting crafts now give you so much to do on downtime that is meaningful.

More interesting survival restrictions like marrotters impacting the difficulty of just living on the coast and coasting off free sea resources is nice (Even if its a little saddening marotter houses are totally static and don't patrol,) but I also understand why we can't just keep releasing new birds and the bees and the dogs trying to kill you updates as otherwise nobody would be able to learn the game eventually (Rabbit king being a counter which only impacts the newbiest of newbies trying to live off morsels leaves a sour taste in my mouth.) Rifts are an interesting solution, by making the true survival experience be something you earn. 

The one thing I think klei needs to get on though is server performance. Stumps, spider brains, and people dropping trash on the floor shouldn't be able to kill the server so quickly.  When we have random entities like grass gekkos and twiggy trees littering like this and the spider nests grow without bound, its tragic to lose a world cause someone walked to the swamp and it was so entity ridden that everyone needed to fully abandon a survival world (Thus resetting our progress.) If the servers aren't more memory leak resistant/performant, the focus on late game will be less useful as servers rotting will make people who don't play solo struggle to experience the game in its full.

[Jakepeng99]

6 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I really don't get the point of posts like this. DST certainly has been shifting ups and downs, but saying that the "modern" era (and especially 2023????) is an overall """bad""" state is really silly.

It is unless you are a megabaser who likes all the stuff