Wendy is not strong

[dst_lover]

I see a lot of people that are with the ideas that Wendy doesn’t need a strong skill tree because she is already a strong character and I always think what is she really good at ? 

She need a lot of effort compared to other characters because she doesn’t really have any good perks other then her sister 

she need a beefalo just to compete with the same dps as other strong characters wolf and wanda 

she need pigs and other creatures just to farm wood the same as other strong characters like maxwell or even at least like wolf were he have a nice boost

she doesn’t have any speed or teleport ability like other characters like wanda or Winona or wortox

she doesn’t have abilities that can help her team like wortox or wicker  

she doesn’t have the ability to farm bosses like wurt or wicker or Winona 

she doesn’t have special abilities like wicker 

she doesn’t have any perks that can help her survival from other seasons like Wilson beard and Webber or wurt 

the only thing she have going with her is her sister and that she is good with fighting a lot of monsters and creatures at the same time but even then there is other characters like woodie that can do the same as her 

And I see a lot of people acting like her downside is nothing or not that big of a problem by saying things like she can ride a beefalo 

When they literally miss three important points 

1 she can’t fight any creatures with knock back very well because they will knock you out of the beefalo and probably kill your beefalo unless you have the skill to avoid every attack in the game and at that point you really deserve it 

2 Wendy is force to tame Ornery so other characters like Wolfgang can get a Rider if they went 

3 taming beefalo is not free and take skill and time and resources 

[paodocevoante1]

21 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

I see a lot of people that are with the ideas that Wendy doesn’t need a strong skill tree because she is already a strong character and I always think what is she really good at ? 

She need a lot of effort compared to other characters because she doesn’t really have any good perks other then her sister 

she need a beefalo just to compete with the same dps as other strong characters wolf and wanda 

she need pigs and other creatures just to farm wood the same as other strong characters like maxwell or even at least like wolf were he have a nice boost

she doesn’t have any speed or teleport ability like other characters like wanda or Winona or wortox

she doesn’t have abilities that can help her team like wortox or wicker  

she doesn’t have the ability to farm bosses like wurt or wicker or Winona 

she doesn’t have special abilities like wicker 

she doesn’t have any perks that can help her survival from other seasons like Wilson beard and Webber or wurt 

the only thing she have going with her is her sister and that she is good with fighting a lot of monsters and creatures at the same time but even then there is other characters like woodie that can do the same as her 

And I see a lot of people acting like her downside is nothing or not that big of a problem by saying things like she can ride a beefalo 

When they literally miss three important points 

1 she can’t fight any creatures with knock back very well because they will knock you out of the beefalo and probably kill your beefalo unless you have the skill to avoid every attack in the game and at that point you really deserve it 

2 Wendy is force to tame Ornery so other characters like Wolfgang can get a Rider if they went 

3 taming beefalo is not free and take skill and time and resources 

She has Abigail.

[Bumber64]

Day 1 free AoE. You can AFK and Abigail will just kill stuff for you.

A 1.15x damage multiplier while Abi is alive is also better than some other characters get.

[Echsrick]

sounds like you want her to be able to do everything anohter character can do better then her, and alsol heres the thing, can another character just do nothing and kill 20+ spiders by standing still? i dont think so

[Mike23Ua]

I was in complete agreement with you up until you mentioned the Beefalo stuff, a characters abilities should not be defined by the Beefalo Mount.

And if we factor that out of the equation… what does Wendy REALLY have going for her as a character? She can’t socket a bunch of crazy speed buff circuits to run around the game map at zippy fast speeds, She doesn’t even get Wigfrids “Encore Performance” or Wanda’s “Second Chance Clock” to bring back the dead.. 

Shes literally just a character with an AI Follower and that AI Followers only (current) design intent is to rip to shreds hordes of mob mentality gathering mobs.

Yes she has Abigail as a light source to ward off the night but you can not (again currently..) command Abigial to huddle closely by your side and actually use it to any sort of effectiveness because (at least on Xbox..) Abigail runs away from Wendy if Wendy gets too close so unlike other light source characters who can ward of the night (Winona can ignore nights existence altogether now and run around blindly without any sort of light source or consequences although I highly advise against doing such.. unless you know your way around in the Dark) Wendy doesn’t even have that much going for her, I have to stop exploring the map and stand still to benefit from Abigail’s glow which is only effective if she’s in full health, and if I’m going to be standing still anyway, why didn’t I just throw down a campfire? HIGHLY INEFFECTIVE as a light source in ANY Actual Combat Scenario at night…

Which is Hilarious considering Abigail gets damage buffs at night, yeah did I mention Wendy is the only character in the entire game who’s playstyle revolves around Time of Day (or potions to trick ToD) so there’s that too..

My point is that Wendy is a little “too basic” after all these incredible character reworks and skill tree tune-ups.

And I’m hoping the folks at Klei see this, I’m not wanting my favorite character to be over the top OP just because she’s my favorite character (believe it or not I originally purchased Wormwood because I enjoyed his additional challenges that have now mostly been scrubbed into Non-Existence in favor of a more rounded out character)

I actually have and do buy “Glass Canon” type character classes in other non-Klei games, Unfortunately though- I don’t think the devs at Klei truly grasp the concept of what an actual “Glass Canon” even is, and when they tried to put those perks onto Wendy in her original rework it just didn’t feel fitting..

She was never designed as a character with a high and demanding skill ceiling, and I think that right there is where ALOT of the miscommunication comes in.

It is okay for DST to have harder to play characters and easier to play characters, but it is most definitely NOT Okay to hold back creativity on further fleshing out those characters just because Wendy is Easier to play as then say “Wes”

I feel the urgent need to bring up Balloon’o’Mancy, Wes gets a free Day 1 Speed Boost, A rain protective head gear and boat insurance- All for next to no effort, and all on the character who was intentionally designed to be the worst and hardest one you can possibly pick in the entire game.

[Kwaik]

Wendy can be pretty strong (which she is)

And her current skill tree could be pretty terrible and in need of substantial buffs (which is also true) 

 

The shilling on here pretending that Wendy isn't a very good very popular character is crazyyyy. 

Read the beta branch, people aren't happy with any of the 3 skill trees, and Wortox and Wendy lag behind Walters quite a bit 

[Sapientis]

I love this chaos Forums turned into

 

Some points are viable though. If she is strong with a Beefalo and weak without it there's some real problem either with her or her interaction with said Beefalo.

[dst_lover]

8 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Day 1 free AoE. You can AFK and Abigail will just kill stuff for you.

A 1.15x damage multiplier while Abi is alive is also better than some other characters get.

Ok you can afk and Abigail will kill stuff for you but this is not beneficial I can literally just kill them as fast as other characters and just move on and you can’t afk bosses and strong creatures either you will need to fight with Abi and keep her safe

a 1.15 is not worth it if the only thing you have is this then you are not an the same level as other strong characters and here is the thing if Abigail die she will lose her 1.15 damage boost and if u are fighting nightmares Abigail will not fight them for you 

and when you remember that this character literally have 0 perks that is very useful outside combat and even her combat perk is not that good why she is considered a strong character?

[Dragonboooorn]

End of debate.

[dst_lover]

9 hours ago, Echsrick said:

sounds like you want her to be able to do everything anohter character can do better then her, and alsol heres the thing, can another character just do nothing and kill 20+ spiders by standing still? i dont think so

Of course not but when she literally has no perks outside combat and her combat abilities aren’t even that good she is not as good as characters that literally deal more damage and have more perks outside combat and having no perks outside combat is crazy because even characters that are famous for their good fighting capabilities have a lot of perks outside combat 

and I don’t get the afk argument because I can literally kill those 20 by myself  I don’t need to afk 

if the strongest thing about a character that she can afk spiders she is not a strong character and not like she can afk bosses like other characters 

[dst_lover]

9 hours ago, Kwaik said:

Wendy can be pretty strong (which she is)

And her current skill tree could be pretty terrible and in need of substantial buffs (which is also true) 

 

The shilling on here pretending that Wendy isn't a very good very popular character is crazyyyy. 

Read the beta branch, people aren't happy with any of the 3 skill trees, and Wortox and Wendy lag behind Walters quite a bit 

Wendy being Popular doesn’t mean she is strong 

Wortox is even worse then Wendy 

people always hate on skill trees just like the wigfrid and wurt and wolf and willow skill trees this is not the first time a lot of people back then complain that a lot of their skill tree is useless a skill tree being hated doesn’t mean a lot because most skill trees are hated on bate the only reason you feel that its more then before is because the fact that a lot of players play those characters and they are more popular and + the fact that those 3 characters are one of the most characters that need a skill trees because they are not strong or have very little perks like Wendy or have very strong downsides 

[HellHeater]

9 hours ago, Echsrick said:

sounds like you want her to be able to do everything anohter character can do better then her, and alsol heres the thing, can another character just do nothing and kill 20+ spiders by standing still? i dont think so

willow winona maxwell wicker(tentacles maybe) woodie(charge) webber and finally wormwood (aoe armor) 

[DegenerateFurry]

2 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

willow winona maxwell wicker(tentacles maybe) woodie(charge) webber and finally wormwood (aoe armor) 

None of those are things you can do for free just by standing still, and none of them are nearly as good at it as Abigail. 

Wendy, on day one with no armor and no weapon, can basically solo an infinite number of normal spiders without even moving. She just has to rile up Abigail and wait.

Willow has to cast spells in the right area, which involves gathering embers first, which involves killing spiders (or bees) manually, so that's already a bigger amount of effort than Wendy. Also, she has to extinguish the drops before the fire becomes real and burns them.

Winona can farm spiders by standing still... after she makes several catapults and (optimally) some fancy setup with statues that she has to painstakingly move into exact positions. Not something you get day one by any means, it takes a lot of effort to set up.

Maxwell does get it on day one as a starting item, but it's way worse at crowd control, to the point that he will die if he isn't constantly running/tanking in Snurtle armor. Like, it's not even remotely fair to compare them. Also, it costs nightmare fuel and sanity.

Wickerbottom? Really? You have clearly never made a tentacle farm if you think it's anything close to free or standing still. You need multiple On Tentacles books, each one needing a tentacle spot to craft, as well as a bunch of broken grass walls and a very large amount of sanity food just to build the farm, and you're at extreme risk of death if you screw up while doing so. Making a Wickerbottom tentacle farm for spiders would unironically be one of the highest-effort ways possible to kill spiders in the game.

Woodie is slightly comparable, but charging back and forth without getting stunlocked (which will kill you if it's enough spiders, and it will happen if you're not careful) is quite far from standing still, and he does at least have to make and use an idol, which nukes his hunger when it expires, and he'll be taking damage while farming spiders. Also, he can't pick up the drops until he turns back, so he'll have to constantly guard the monster meat from any spiders that spawn if he wants to keep any since a single one can eat basically all of it that drops.

Webber? Yeah, fair, but that's kinda his whole thing as a character. 

Wormwood is another one that's terrible to bring up here because his armor costs health (in the form of living logs) to craft and doesn't even do close to as good a job as Abigail at farming spiders. He takes damage every time he gets hit with it on and it'll break before too long, assuming he doesn't die first. Standing still and getting hit as Wormwood is a recipe for a player skeleton.

[HellHeater]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

.

My point here was that "no, other characters have aoe too. It's not wendy exclusive."

Yeah definitely all of those characters need much more effort in order to do something and wickerbottom criticism is totally fair I didn't think of that. But the point is they can still do all of them just not on day 1. 

All Winona needs one catapult and one battery by the way, no fancy setup is required unless you're killing warrior spiders too. Also when you get the fancy setup, it will be infinitely better than abigail.

I main maxwell and I can totally say maxwell doesn't do bad against crowd control, he needs to summon warriors and a single shadow prison/sneak handles all spiders. This is a day 1 perk just like wendy. 

Also I can't recall any moment of getting stunlocked, let alone get hit, by spiders during a moose charge at all.

I think my point stands.

[Mike23Ua]

We should probably also factor in that Winona got (among other things…)

Slowing patches of catapult rose rounds, Catapults with Resource mining AoE capabilities, a Robot that goes around picking up said resources after the Catapults have demolished the forest…

Yet Wendy who can now move tombstones and create her own can not command a bunch of ghosts to “Haunt” a bunch of axes in a forest to chop trees?

Why?? Because Wendy can’t be good at resource gathering because that’s X, Y, Z’s Job?

How do you explain Woodie, Winona & Maxwell then.. who not only have decent resource capabilities, but also strong combat ones as well.

Wolfgang might be the most boring and basic skill tree ever (next to Wilson) but at least he has a chance to instantly complete work (chopping, Mining) and can use his super strength to lift masts and anchors and row faster, He can also wear heavy armor and piggy backpacks and carry heavy objects with no slow and sluggish walking penalties.

[Frosty_Mentos]

5 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

End of debate.

Wolfgang is by default supposed to be strong, Wendy kinda needed more spiritual interactions. I hope we get ghosts to do work for her or something.

[Theukon-dos]

Wendy has a free and effective source of AOE damage capable of trivializing most non-boss threats in the game. And even then, just having a cold body to split enemy agression with is a massive boon that more than makes up for Wendy's low DPS.

 

The fact that people like you can say that she's underpowered with a straight face because she "only" has the best crowd control abilities in the game is a perfect demonstration of how horrific of an idea skill trees where in the first place and how rampant power creep has been with them.

[Tranoze]

9 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

that she's underpowered

I use ctr+F on this thread and see noone else say she is underpowered. We are here to say wendy is "not strong" because dev claim she is a strong character so her skill tree has to be weak.

18 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

 non-boss threats

non-boss and threats? Unless you put yourself in center of 40 splumonkeys with no way out, non-boss aren't much of a threats. Those are resources waiting for you to farm them.

[Theukon-dos]

34 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

I use ctr+F on this thread and see noone else say she is underpowered. We are here to say wendy is "not strong" because dev claim she is a strong character so her skill tree has to be weak.

non-boss and threats? Unless you put yourself in center of 40 splumonkeys with no way out, non-boss aren't much of a threats. Those are resources waiting for you to farm them.

1. It may not have been said outright, but it's definitely the impression I got.

2. The point still stands. Wendy was a fantastic character after her refresh, having a cheap and reliable source of AOE damage that could carry inexperienced players and farm obscene amounts of resources for experienced ones, a resistance to all forms of sanity loss for easy management, and some unique techs that let players who knew what they where doing bypass the usual weaknesses that Wendy has to deal with when fighting bosses. Sure, she never reached the same peaks as the top dogs like Wolfgang, Wanda, or Post-Refresh Maxwell. But those characters should never have been used as the baseline for how strong a character should be. So the fact that a serious argument can be made that she's "not strong" and should have a stronger skill tree just goes to show that DST's power creep has gotten so bad that it would probably be better to call it a power sprint.

[Tranoze]

2 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

a resistance to all forms of sanity loss for easy management

Wendy can lose sanity pretty fast if she cant protect her abi.

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Sure, she never reached the same peaks as the top dogs like Wolfgang, Wanda, or Post-Refresh Maxwell. But those characters should never have been used as the baseline for how strong a character should be. 

Agree, my point is, we are not asking her skill tree to be stronger, we asking for her skill tree to not bland with 80% of the skill does nothing new. There are way to give interesting skill tree, they dont have to be combat related (like giving abi ghostly cold aura, or heated light, allow abigail to wear decorative hat...)

Instead what klei did is make potions easier to farm, and potions last longer without adding any new basic potions, and both those function for potion took half of her skill tree. The other half? Abi more hp, abi heal faster. All those skill tree are combat related for wendy, make her combat stronger, but they are quite bland and bring nothing new to the table...

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Wendy has a free and effective source of AOE damage capable of trivializing most non-boss threats in the game. And even then, just having a cold body to split enemy agression with is a massive boon that more than makes up for Wendy's low DPS.

 

The fact that people like you can say that she's underpowered with a straight face because she "only" has the best crowd control abilities in the game is a perfect demonstration of how horrific of an idea skill trees where in the first place and how rampant power creep has been with them.

She only has better dps than Wigfrid, and can only farm tons of mobs easily.

[Duck986]

18 hours ago, Sapientis said:

I love this chaos Forums turned into

always has been, my friend.

[Bumber64]

Can Abigail handle hound attacks pretty well?

One of the issues with those is that they arrive suddenly. Playing as Webber, I don't necessarily want an army of spiders crowding around me all the time. (I imagine same issue with merms. Maxwell's minions need to be summoned constantly, I think? Winona's catapults need to be carried around.)

Even if I have spiders with me, red hounds risk setting them on fire, which they will spread everywhere.

Abigail is a single, non-crowding mob that can be always active. She's also immune to freezing by blue hounds.

12 hours ago, dst_lover said:

Ok you can afk and Abigail will kill stuff for you but this is not beneficial I can literally just kill them as fast as other characters and just move on

No, you have to handle them one at a time, or expend some kind of resource for an AoE (or equivalent). In any case you'll have to interrupt what you were previously doing if playing a non-minion character.

[dst_lover]

5 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Can Abigail handle hound attacks pretty well?

One of the issues with those is that they arrive suddenly. Playing as Webber, I don't necessarily want an army of spiders crowding around me all the time. (I imagine same issue with merms. Maxwell's minions need to be summoned constantly, I think? Winona's catapults need to be carried around.)

Even if I have spiders with me, red hounds risk setting them on fire, which they will spread everywhere.

Abigail is a single, non-crowding mob that can be always active. She's also immune to freezing by blue hounds.

You are just wrong with wurt I play wurt a lot  and if u play him and have any of the 2 affinities u literally have an arms with you every were u go because they’re loyal for ever  I literally have an army of 90 mutant merms everywhere 

Maxwell can literally trap them and kill them very fast Wendy might be faster then him
Here is the thing good point but this is not enough to make her a strong character u have to ask yourself does the ability to afk 20 spiders or hounds worth it ? the first hound attack is very ez and you will not need Abigail and when you start a world you will not waste most of your time fighting 20 spiders at the same time why would you even went to fight all those spiders for? you can simply destroy their home and kill them pretty easily and never think ever about gathering silk because you will have enough for you whole world 

it is like saying that she is good with dealing with bee queen yes she is good but is that enough to make her batter then strong characters like Wolfgang and Wanda and Maxwell and wicker and wurt no she is simply doesn’t compete with them 

she is with the mid tier characters and she is batter the low tier characters 

but other then that she is not good 

 

[Bumber64]

12 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

You are just wrong with wurt I play wurt a lot  and if u play him and have any of the 2 affinities u literally have an arms with you every were u go because they’re loyal for ever  I literally have an army of 90 mutant merms everywhere

I think you'd at least know Wurt's a girl. 90 of anything around you is going to block building placement, cause you to land into the ocean instead of a boat, kill stuff you don't want dead, etc.

Saying she's weaker than the strongest characters doesn't prove she isn't strong. She's definitely above mid, being powerful even in the hands of a beginner with zero investment.