Wendy is not strong

[dst_lover]

22 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I think you'd at least know Wurt's a girl. 90 of anything around you is going to block building placement, cause you to land into the ocean instead of a boat, kill stuff you don't want dead, etc.

Saying she's weaker than the strongest characters doesn't prove she isn't strong. She's definitely above mid, being powerful even in the hands of a beginner with zero investment.

1 forgot and that literally doesn’t matter 

2  if u have 90 merms you will already made your whole base and what is the thing that I doesn’t went it to die ? and just to be clear you don’t need 90 merms to protect you , 20 is enough to kill any boss and I only bring 90 because I love to see bosses die an seconds 
3 the investment is that she deal 25 less damage and have zero perks outside combat so any noob will not be able to protect Abigail and will probably die from any boss and when his sanity becomes low he literally deal 25 % less damage so he might even die from. Nightmare creatures 

[Tranoze]

18 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Saying she's weaker than the strongest characters doesn't prove she isn't strong.

Saying she's stronger than hound wave also doesn't prove she is strong.

[Bumber64]

37 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Saying she's stronger than hound wave also doesn't prove she is strong.

Demolishing waves of mobs without lifting a finger certainly implies it.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Demolishing waves of mobs without lifting a finger certainly implies it

there's no value in doing that though, spiders, hounds, bees, mosquitoes etc. provide no useful resources that do something that you can't get done more efficiently through some other way, biggest value out of the AoE's probably BQ and FW

most characters also have AoE now so she really isn't good

you could say that all of these are invalid for the way you play because you don't play well enough to not need the healing, silk and monster meat from spiders but that was kind of the point, saying that a character's strong or weak's silly and pointless because that depends on what your goal is and how you play

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

there's no value in doing that though, spiders, hounds, bees, mosquitoes etc. provide no useful resources that do something that you can't get done more efficiently through some other way, biggest value out of the AoE's probably BQ and FW

most characters also have AoE now so she really isn't good

Splumonkeys? Pigs? Are you asking why anyone would build a mob farm to begin with?

I mean, are you really actually claiming that free AoE isn't any good? Sure, it's free, but why would anyone ever want to use silly AoE for? Except other characters, of course!

[arubaro]

15 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

End of debate.

So?

[Theukon-dos]

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

She only has better dps than Wigfrid, and can only farm tons of mobs easily.

Ah yes, "only" has better DPS than the character who, for the longest time, was one of only two characters who had a direct damage modifier despite the fact that dealing *less* damage was supposed to be her only downside.

 

There was once a time when 1x damage was considered the standard, and going above that was exceedingly special. Even during the refresh era, Wendy was an outlier in how much of a DPS boost she got with her refresh. Power creep certainly ran rampant back then aswell, but atleast Klei hadn't decided yet that everyone needs to deal damage out the wazoo and that combat is the only thing in this game that matters. 

 

The fact that you're replying to my claims of power creep by saying that she "only" deals more damage than the battlehardend Valkry just proves my point. Because that much damage used to be considered impressive, but now people are treating it like barely a footnote.

[WenericMember]

Tbh boss health is so ridiculously high in this game whether a character does 1 or 1.2x normal damage doesn't feel significant.

If they ever find a way to fix boss hp scaling tin a fair then maybe I'd care a bit more, but for now it's like... Do I won bosses to take an eternity to fight? Or an eternity - 20 seconds?

[Copyafriend]

8 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Tbh boss health is so ridiculously high in this game whether a character does 1 or 1.2x normal damage doesn't feel significant.

If they ever find a way to fix boss hp scaling tin a fair then maybe I'd care a bit more, but for now it's like... Do I won bosses to take an eternity to fight? Or an eternity - 20 seconds?

I disagree.

Dealing 1.25x or more damage feels very noticeable for anything less than a boss (much better TTK (time to kill))

For bosses even a 1.25x multi means spending 20% less time fighting the boss. (5/4x damage inverted means effectively 4/5ths the health, or 80%)

This means 20% less durability (when breaking 5 weapons turns into breaking 4)

20% less swings from the boss which roughly translates to:

(Sometimes you only make a mistake at the end, sometimes the last fifth you take no hits, im assuming it averages out)

20% less damage taken (less healing needed)

20% less armor used up

Finally:

20% of the time you would have spent fighting being spent instead on gathering loot and heading back.

Altogether it means it takes a LOT less resources to kill the boss, and it also means that it takes a lot less time to gather the resources you DO need.

Damage multipliers can be a huge benefit, and abigail being an indirect damage buff often means needing no weapons or armor for a lot of fights.

Spiders? Easy.

Need honey? Literally a blender.

Hounds? Lmao.

In the cave she's permanently in night mode, making her a lot stronger to deal with the threat down there.

No she's not a perfect character, but she literally buffs every other player by 10% and also abigail is literally the strongest summon by far.

[WenericMember]

Just now, Copyafriend said:

I disagree.

Dealing 1.25x or more damage feels very noticeable for anything less than a boss (much better TTK (time to kill))

For bosses even a 1.25x multi means spending 20% less time fighting the boss. (5/4x damage inverted means effectively 4/5ths the health, or 80%)

This means 20% less durability (when breaking 5 weapons turns into breaking 4)

20% less swings from the boss which roughly translates to:

(Sometimes you only make a mistake at the end, sometimes the last fifth you take no hits, im assuming it averages out)

20% less damage taken (less healing needed)

20% less armor used up

Oh I don't disagree that it's not objectively important, but I care more about the game feel than objective fact. Wurt & Merm Hordes might be the easiest way to beat the game, but it's not a fun way to play so I don't do it.

The difference between a survivor with base damage and something like Wigfrid/Wendy damage similarly feels insignificant when playing to me. It takes Wolfgangs absolutely overkill damage to really affect the way the game feels to me.

It's a absolutely a subjective, taste thing. Just how I feel. I inentionally didn't respond to anyone when making that comment because it wasn't particularly meant to be more than that.

[BalkanCockroach]

Willow is stronger while being so much more versatile.

[Picklesaurus]

16 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Tbh boss health is so ridiculously high in this game whether a character does 1 or 1.2x normal damage doesn't feel significant.

If they ever find a way to fix boss hp scaling tin a fair then maybe I'd care a bit more, but for now it's like... Do I won bosses to take an eternity to fight? Or an eternity - 20 seconds?

The more HP a boss has the  more I feel a difference between damage difference in characters, I did misery toadstool as Wilson without weather  pain in around 5 in  game days which equals to around 30 minutes, if I had 20% more damage it would have taken me around 24 minutes, with 25%  more damage it would have taken me around 22, and I feel that difference when I play characters like Wigfrid or Wormwood with Bramble armor not only in the difference in killing times but also in the amount of resources I used. On the other hand, when dealing with smaller mobs small damage increase are not really usefull unless it hits break points, for example: 70 damage is 40% more damage than 50, but if I'm killing hounds - they have 150 hp - it wouldnt matter since, because of break points, it would take 3 hits to kill them with 50 damage or 70 damage.

[Valak]

17 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

End of debate.

Calm down Mister Edgeworth Richard, time to take yer pills

On 11/25/2024 at 8:35 AM, dst_lover said:

she doesn’t have abilities that can help her team like wortox or wicker  

You forgot the almighty sisturn

The almighty sisturn helped save my crumbling marriage, fixed my failed business and recovered my male pattern baldness.

[Mike23Ua]

22 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

The more HP a boss has the  more I feel a difference between damage difference in characters, I did misery toadstool as Wilson without weather  pain in around 5 in  game days which equals to around 30 minutes, if I had 20% more damage it would have taken me around 24 minutes, with 25%  more damage it would have taken me around 22, and I feel that difference when I play characters like Wigfrid or Wormwood with Bramble armor not only in the difference in killing times but also in the amount of resources I used. On the other hand, when dealing with smaller mobs small damage increase are not really usefull unless it hits break points, for example: 70 damage is 40% more damage than 50, but if I'm killing hounds - they have 150 hp - it wouldnt matter since, because of break points, it would take 3 hits to kill them with 50 damage or 70 damage.

Aight now let’s ask the real question though… how many console gamers (not Pc cause they’re weird people with obsessions to RPGs and WoW and life long dedications to leveling up their characters or whatever…) How many console players do you know have the time or attention span to dedicate 30 minutes to an hour on one boss fight?

And now… ask yourself how laughably fast those bosses fall (some even having fainting mechanics so they don’t do any damage and actually die faster cough cough Dragonfly) the more people that are hitting it?

Klei has need to rebalance boss fights in this game for quite some time now… and I have this weird and unexplainable feeling that really soon.. (as in possibly even next years roadmap type soon) we’re going to have a lot more options for that like boss sliders and difficulty settings.

But.. it’ll also mean that characters like Wolfgang who just by existing effectively cuts any bosses Health down by half, are now significantly that much less important…

And at that point what will matter won’t be how hard the characters can hit or how fast they can kill a boss, but rather how fun that character is as a whole package.

[Copyafriend]

35 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Aight now let’s ask the real question though… how many console gamers (not Pc cause they’re weird people with obsessions to RPGs and WoW and life long dedications to leveling up their characters or whatever…) How many console players do you know have the time or attention span to dedicate 30 minutes to an hour on one boss fight?

Most.

Elden ring was one of the bestselling games of all time, bosses can take hours to beat.

BG3 is a game with an average playtime of over 100 hours, also a bestseller on console.

Every edition of "monster hunter" was extremely well selling on consoles, and only "monster hunter world" really tapped the pc market, boss fights *which is every fight* almost always last 20ish minutes.

 

30 minutes is not weird at all for console gamers. Presumably YOU are the exception. Especially since Dont Starve actually has multiple bosses that can easily take 30+ minutes.

[kroban]

18 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

End of debate.

Based and gympilled

[hyoton123]

Yeah, and you can even pause DST now. 

I am kind of curious how much time people spend on bossing compared to the survival aspect. I don’t think I’d play DST to speedrun bosses, but I enjoy surviving AND bossing. 

17 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Most.

 

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Demolishing waves of mobs without lifting a finger certainly implies it.

Soo destroy weak things consider op now? Torching entire forest without lifting a finger is equally as op as destroy waves of mobs. Same as forest, wave of mobs are just minding their own business before wendy come.

And demolish multiple waves? Without lifting a finger? The only waves of mobs abigail can safely destroy is basic spider. Abigail cant handle too much warrior spiders. Abigail also cant handle moonstone's wave alone. Abigail also cant handle splumonkey (shadow or not) if they come in multiple waves.
So no. Abigail doesn't demolish waves of mobs.

[Peasant]

9 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

The only waves of mobs abigail can safely destroy is basic spider

And bees, and...none.

[Copyafriend]

Just now, YXukun said:

And bees, and...none.

Bees Hounds and spiders are 3 of the most prolific enemies early midgame. Spider is also a ambiguation, theres like 10 different spider breeds and shes strong enough to kill moderate numbers of them easily

To name more:

Monkeys (use a shield people, it being uncommonly used doesnt make it worthless), frogs, antlion, mosquitos, tentacles, able to 1v1 most mobs in the game and survive easily.

In fact the only thing she CANT just solo for the player without assistance is bosses. But no she's not OP because she cant kill an entire herd of beefalo or solo deerclops without healing her 3 times.

But lord forbid we call a spade a spade and just admit that abigail is the strongest follower in the entire game and singlehandedly makes wendy better than wigfrid at all combat outside of endgame bosses and bearger.

While simultaneously buffing every player present of course.

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Bees Hounds and spiders are 3 of the most prolific enemies early midgame. Spider is also a ambiguation, theres like 10 different spider breeds and shes strong enough to kill moderate numbers of them easily

To name more:

Monkeys (use a shield people, it being uncommonly used doesnt make it worthless), frogs, antlion, mosquitos, tentacles, able to 1v1 most mobs in the game and survive easily.

In fact the only thing she CANT just solo for the player without assistance is bosses. But no she's not OP because she cant kill an entire herd of beefalo or solo deerclops without healing her 3 times.

But lord forbid we call a spade a spade and just admit that abigail is the strongest follower in the entire game and singlehandedly makes wendy better than wigfrid at all combat outside of endgame bosses and bearger.

While simultaneously buffing every player present of course.

And if we remove the petal buff bonus now that we can target things and command Abigail to haunt them in favor of having Wendy Herself or Whatever she commands Abby to haunt to get the buff in strength rather than just the Universal pedals boost?

Yeah I’m pretty sure that’s a viable nerf.. and one Klei should seriously consider since we’re getting a dedicated haunt command prompt.

Instead of having 1 Wendy and 5 Wolfgang’s with Petal Buff, you instead have to choose which of those 5 Wolfgang’s will dish out the most damage and get the most benefit from the temporary buff.

 

Another huge nerf I wish Klei would desperately reinstate (especially since we can now Anchor Abby to rest at the Sisturn so she heals more HP than normal) is bringing back the Cooldown time required to Resummon her.

That was Wendy gimmick in Solo DS, You mess up and kill Abby you had to do without till she was ready to fight again.

Hilariously if we remove the petal buff bonus- Bye Bye Wendy Beefalo Meta…. but you can always try commanding Abby to “Haunt” your smelly FurCow as an Alternative.

[Bumber64]

33 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Soo destroy weak things consider op now? Torching entire forest without lifting a finger is equally as op as destroy waves of mobs. Same as forest, wave of mobs are just minding their own business before wendy come.

And demolish multiple waves? Without lifting a finger? The only waves of mobs abigail can safely destroy is basic spider. Abigail cant handle too much warrior spiders. Abigail also cant handle moonstone's wave alone. Abigail also cant handle splumonkey (shadow or not) if they come in multiple waves.
So no. Abigail doesn't demolish waves of mobs.

Anyone can torch an entire forest with just a torch. You won't be getting any logs, and a lot of the pine cones will burn. This is a bad thing if you were just trying to heat a thermal stone.

You do realize that you do need to kill mobs to obtain a number of items, right? And that you're going to be subjected to them while not wanting to fight (cookie cutters, hounds, worms)?

Depends on how large a wave you fight at once. You can probably go hut to hut for splumonkeys. If you're going to rush into things, you should obviously be helping.

How well does Abi handle malbatross, BTW? Seems like she could attack while it's trying to push the boat away.

[Tranoze]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Depends on how large a wave you fight at once.

You probably never played wendy vs splumonkey before so you think that. The key to kill splumonkey as wendy is running around gather all monkey in one place, then lead them to abi, as BIGGEST WAVE as possible, and avoid them going to abi in mutiple small wave, as they will dran her health when the shield not active.
 

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

How well does Abi handle malbatross, BTW? Seems like she could attack while it's trying to push the boat away.

She can agroo malbatross, but malbatross basic attack is AOE and kill abi quite fast. If you have really high dps then yes, wendy can chunk lots of malbatros hp before abi dies. But the best way to agroo malbatross still ice staff it when it afar, and kill it normally like other bosses.

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

worms)?

worm demolish abigail.  If wave bigger than 4, it best to unsummon abi if you dont want to tank sanity and fight both shadow and worm. Abi is strong vs spider and bee because they can be stun locked

[Bumber64]

2 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

You probably never played wendy vs splumonkey before so you think that. The key to kill splumonkey as wendy is running around gather all monkey in one place, then lead them to abi, as BIGGEST WAVE as possible, and avoid them going to abi in mutiple small wave, as they will dran her health when the shield not active.

Even better, then.

Also, this is all pre-skill tree. Petal shroud will grant some degree of protection, so you'll be able to do whatever with a dreadstone helm.

[Peasant]

26 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Bees Hounds and spiders are 3 of the most prolific enemies early midgame. Spider is also a ambiguation, theres like 10 different spider breeds and shes strong enough to kill moderate numbers of them easily

To name more:

Monkeys (use a shield people, it being uncommonly used doesnt make it worthless), frogs, antlion, mosquitos, tentacles, able to 1v1 most mobs in the game and survive easily.

In fact the only thing she CANT just solo for the player without assistance is bosses. But no she's not OP because she cant kill an entire herd of beefalo or solo deerclops without healing her 3 times.

But lord forbid we call a spade a spade and just admit that abigail is the strongest follower in the entire game and singlehandedly makes wendy better than wigfrid at all combat outside of endgame bosses and bearger.

While simultaneously buffing every player present of course.

Wendy better than Wigfrid, seriously? Wendy's only better than Wigfrid when she's on a battle beefalo equipped with a war saddle, and that's before Wigfrid had her skilltree. Now with charged elding spear wigfrid can easily exceed wendy ON a battle beefalo and war saddle, if you consider the fact that wendy loses her power when facing knockback bosses it would be even more so. Besides wigfrid got 25% defence against everything and regains hp and sanity by simply pressing f, makes she consume even less healing items.

In anycase this discussion over whether wendy is strong or not is pointless. I've written an article about this yesterday, you can search "An analysis to answer all questions over whether Wendy is strong or not" in whether the general discussion section or the beta branch section to find it, and leave a comment if possible, for I've received 0 reply yesterday