This whole update's value really comes down to the worm boss

[nimzowitsch10]

If he drops nothing good, this update is really without substance.

Besides wormboss what did we get? Weapons, rabbit npc, rift mobs?

 

I really want my idea of changing wormhole locations implemented with something wormboss drops.

We really need something for wormholes that are inches away from each other or goes to a useless biome for the end game.

 

If wormboss could be tweaked to be a challenging boss, the likes of misery toadstool I think the drops can be justified and this update would be a banger.

[Mike23Ua]

I already explained this once but maybe it was ignored because I went into too long of a post so I’ll cut it down into a TL:DR.

What your wanting would be Amazing if DST was a single player game, but it’s not.. it’s Multiplayer and will cause issues & serious confusion if players could “relocate” the games naturally spawning wormhole holes. The Bootleg Getaway works because it’s creating its OWN Wormholes, not letting you move existing ones.

My suggestion is to just give players a Charlie’s Rose, which grants them Winona’s newer skill ability to choose which Wormhole to travel to.

It will prevent mass confusion.

[Place Holder]

In my opinion the bridges and other new items add enough to make this a good update. Definitely a great boss will add a lot to this update, but in my opinion it doesn’t make the update good from bad. It’s definitely not the largest update but it still has some great stuff in my opinion. The bridges and maul will definitely be things people use quite a bit after this update releases. Have a great day!

[MadMatt]

Rabbit king is nice with the extra inventory space. Also not a bad weapon to pick up before you get a hambat.

[nimzowitsch10]

@Mike23Ua I could see some issues with that item like you said but I really have a pet peeve of seeing world gens ruined because of terrible wormholes. If worm boss could drop something equally useful that makes sense I will be happy.

[Jakepeng99]

Yeah i dont feel like this update adds much substance to caves.

[ZeRoboButler]

What would a worm boss give as a drop that is either thematic or usefull...

I'll throw some ideas out there I guess -

1. Thorny worm armor? Could be a body armor that could aid with the slimes or future worm attacks, preventing the player from being eaten or swallowed by slimes or worms respectively, or rather doing an instance of damage and causing said mob to spit the player out immediately.
2. spiky worm skin? used to make thorned balls that can be thrown at mobs, could cause the mob to be slowed down and take dmg whilst moving. Perhaps it could be used to make a form of caltrops with a similar functionality. Perhaps the skin could be renamed to "thick wormy hide" and you could use it to make new armor, perhaps the head piece could be a worms open maw, catching debris from cave-ins and holding onto it, both preventing damage and catching valuables like gems and the like.
3. Worm burrow item? Could function as a way to hide the player for a brief time below ground, able to move around/ hide and avoid damage while ignoring collisions. The item could have a durability restore similar to the mask of terror or shield of terror, giving it food items to restore durability.
4. Worm Warper item? A item that would allow you to Burrow to certain places on the map, perhaps in muddy locations to fit the worm vibe, functioning as a wormhole for a temporary amount of time. Balanced around the turf and the time in the game the player could potentially get it, could be reasonable I suppose.

[RetRunt]

Caves need an overhaul. There's too many copy and paste biomes and just useless ground to explore. This update isn't what I was expecting. Caves need something.

[HeatAndRun]

Maybe he could drop plantable lesser glow berries?

[Milordo]

No. Absolutely no.  

This has been said thousands of times, it will be said a thousands more times. Just because something doesn't drop something new, it doesn't diminish at all his value. Dropping = 6-7 monster meats, 1 glowberry, 40 bone shards, 3 manure if you exploit him, rocks, blue gems, red gems, purple gems and a chance of 2-3 thulecite units           it's not nothing.

If the drops would stay the same as of now, it's perfect as it is.

If the drops could be changed as the community suggested ---> 

it would be even more perfect, by being a renewable source of caves stuff + new plant (or plants) to farm in the marvelous farming system, which is just chef kiss*

If you want more ways of teleport, push Klei into reworking hard telelocator and lazy deserter that are there gathering dust and were designed exactly for what you want.     

I do too let my imagination go wild and think of countless ideas and concepts for Don't starve, for years! But try to do often some self critique to yourself and think "It is really good for the game my idea of changing wormholes?" Changing wormholes at will, meaning even tentapillars since they're the same, would broke exponentially even more this broken unbalanced mess of a game and do irreversible damage. There is a reason wormholes are fixed, called game design. Cheap teleport? = Womholes. Expensive teleport but where you want to go? = Telelocator and lazy deserter. Also thiiisssss

9 hours ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

 or goes to a useless biome for the end game.

Maybe push Klei also into reworking biomes, which is something that people are screaming for years and it's not a wormhole problem? Just a thought.

And why the worm should be a raid/super boss????? How it's not already a challenging problem??? I get it, it's not that hard in his bubble, I would easily classify him as easy-medium difficulty, but did you ever thought, if you're a full server of 6, how much of them would spawn?? Did you not read or know about his potential destruction in caves? Did you know how much punishing (for now) he is if you fail and get eaten? Or even thought that since it's a sandbox boss, can appear in your worst situations, making it exponentially more dangerous and again. It's our first normal boss of the caves and something that resembles so much the original DS vibe/feeling/atmosphere. We need this.

[NPCMaxwell]

40 boneshards would be the most worthy loot ever if only we could use them to build decorative stuff Or else I probably wouldn't quite sure what to do with 40 boneshards in case I'd EVER want to start learning how to deal with bosses (by not running away from them lol)

[Milordo]

9 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

40 boneshards would be the most worthy loot ever if only we could use them to build decorative stuff Or else I probably wouldn't quite sure what to do with 40 boneshards in case I'd EVER want to start learning how to deal with bosses (by not running away from them lol)

Exactly. I suggest it to lower them, even for not making the world dirtier, but others suggest it too, to add new bone crafts, especially decorations crafts. You know what? I never specified this in the ultimate great worm feedback, even if it was said. I'll add this, thanks! 

[arubaro]

Is not a real boss, just a new wave so the drops arent unique neither we should have unique loot and recipes for each mob added in the game

[cybers2001]

9 hours ago, MadMatt said:

Rabbit king is nice with the extra inventory space. Also not a bad weapon to pick up before you get a hambat.

Are the Bunnymen adds lesser versions of typical Bunnymen? Feels safer to me to knock down some pig houses and get my typical day 3 hambat + football helm.

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

No. Absolutely no.  

This has been said thousands of times, it will be said a thousands more times. Just because something doesn't drop something new, it doesn't diminish at all his value. Dropping = 6-7 monster meats, 1 glowberry, 40 bone shards, 3 manure if you exploit him, rocks, blue gems, red gems, purple gems and a chance of 2-3 thulecite units           it's not nothing.

If the drops would stay the same as of now, it's perfect as it is.

Disagree with you here.

If I can’t count on when or where a mini boss shows up, how do I plan to accept this windfall of random loot? Even in the case of depth worms, usually the monster meat gets left on the floor to become rot, with the only useful loot being the glowberry. Stacks of monster meat going to waste. Why? Because my already finite inventory space becomes even more finite if I’m in the middle of a caves adventure. Same with splumonkeys and slurpers, lots of “loot” to just litter the floors.

[Frosty_Mentos]

The worm itself is the highlight of the update ngl, but the update as a whole really isn't a nothing in my eyes. It might not bring me the sense of wanting to explore and look for those things specifically, but the update is kinda the opposite - it's all the threats that people kept asking and I'm all for the cave threats to exist and make caves feel scarier to be around in.

I really love the worm boss's design for that it's Pugalisk and many love pugalisk, that either way GDW will have it's tweaks later on as devs said.

[Queron81]

Maybe they are working on some more content and just gave us a part of the more complicated content (mobs) so this can be tested first? There are still like 3 weeks until the release and there haven't been an beta update for almost one week.

[kroban]

3 hours ago, Milordo said:

6-7 monster meats, 1 glowberry, 40 bone shards, 3 manure if you exploit him, rocks, blue gems, red gems, purple gems and a chance of 2-3 thulecite units           it's not nothing.

Considering that the "boss" is from caves and that it replaces 4-5 worms yes, I would say it is pretty much nothing. Monster Meat and glowberry is way less than what you would get from a normal wave. Gems and rocks in caves are the easiest **** to get, and im not talking about ruins, I mean the constant earthquakes spawning moles, rocks, and gems everywhere. You literally get way more gems from shoveling some mole's house than this worm.

The only attractive loot there is the thulecite for obvious reasons but its only a chance. If it were 100% I think that alone would make this worm really worth fighting for, even if Klei makes it so it only drops 1 unit.

IMO I think this mob is the perfect opportunity for adding something new for the people that base or spend a lot of time in caves since early game. Like imagine if it dropped some hide that you could use as part of a new thorns armor craft. We all know how useful Wormwood's thorn armor is, that **** is some godlike gear against Bee Queen, Pirate Raids, monkeys from caves, etc. Adding a "public" version of it wouldn't necessarily replace WW's armor because his would still be relatively cheap to craft compared to having to wait and kill some giant worm, but it would make for an awesome alternative for every other character

 

 

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

Disagree with you here.

If I can’t count on when or where a mini boss shows up, how do I plan to accept this windfall of random loot? Even in the case of depth worms, usually the monster meat gets left on the floor to become rot, with the only useful loot being the glowberry. Stacks of monster meat going to waste. Why? Because my already finite inventory space becomes even more finite if I’m in the middle of a caves adventure. Same with splumonkeys and slurpers, lots of “loot” to just litter the floors.

Okay slow down, this is very confusing. I can't follow you in what you're saying because your point in general is extremely vague and it's not a response to what I wrote. When we talked about his spawn method? We only discussed about his loot in a bubble. He spawns (for now) during waves, so we do have already a perception when he will come, so why can't you accept his loot?? Especially if you can be near your base?? Why your inventory space is full? And don't get me wrong, it's not at all situational to have it full in all parts of the game, but why then can't you just....go to your base and go back to pick up the rest as everyone do..? Monster meat never rot that fast, even if it is summer??? Wh-wh-y are you letting monster meat to rot on the floor when it's one of the most powerful items in the game????  

 

1 hour ago, kroban said:

Considering that the "boss" is from caves and that it replaces 4-5 worms yes, I would say it is pretty much nothing. Monster Meat and glowberry is way less than what you would get from a normal wave. Gems and rocks in caves are the easiest **** to get, and im not talking about ruins, I mean the constant earthquakes spawning moles, rocks, and gems everywhere. You literally get way more gems from shoveling some mole's house than this worm.

The only attractive loot there is the thulecite for obvious reasons but its only a chance. If it were 100% I think that alone would make this worm really worth fighting for, even if Klei makes it so it only drops 1 unit.

IMO I think this mob is the perfect opportunity for adding something new for the people that base or spend a lot of time in caves since early game. Like imagine if it dropped some hide that you could use as part of a new thorns armor craft. We all know how useful Wormwood's thorn armor is, that **** is some godlike gear against Bee Queen, Pirate Raids, monkeys from caves, etc. Adding a "public" version of it wouldn't necessarily replace WW's armor because his would still be relatively cheap to craft compared to having to wait and kill some giant worm, but it would make for an awesome alternative for every other character

 

 

You're not considering the chances of rocks and gems when falling from earthquakes and when they do also break.

You're not considering when playing from 1 player to max 6 players.

You're not considering bad caves generation (not the horrible drunk one of the ruins to not confuse) that can lead to less deserts in caves. One of the things we hoped Klei could have tackled in this update......

You're not considering animals that steal and eat like rock lobsters, moles, slurtles and splumonkeys.

                     

It's very bold and crazy to call that kinda of loot weak or insignificant, just because again, there are better methods. Can you imagine if the game had only 1 animal that dropped large meat and Klei gives us now a new one that only drop large meat and everyone refuse it? Or since Varg farms exist and was not at all intended, now Klei can't add anymore other creatures that spawn red and blue gems by your logic? Do you see the fallacy?

Your point is flawed but I need to give credit where it's due. It's true. We loose monster meat and glowberries. Also, in long terms, doesn't help caves that much. While again, I would be very content with his loot as it is, and I think other players too, I'm also open to make it better. Let's see how Klei will respond soon with the next fix that will be about the worm boi.

Final, a subjective take, no on the armor. Booooring. Another item for fighting when we already have tons of it and the horrible skill trees that are still not yet finished? For the dangers that you have listed as examples, there are also intelligent and smart strategies with tools and items to deal with it (as Klei wanted one time a go....). If you want to help caves in long term and give a better loot, the link on my previous comment, shows what the community has come up to make the perfect solution, for now,  of it. With that kinda of loot, a lot of people would be interested on staying in caves. 

[cybers2001]

23 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Okay slow down, this is very confusing. I can't follow you in what you're saying because your point in general is extremely vague and it's not a response to what I wrote. When we talked about his spawn method?

Its spawn method does have a lot to do with it, though. If I'm sitting in base wishing I had more bone shards, am I going to go to the caves and look for the greater depth worm? No, because I can't reliably seek it out. Instead of waiting for an RNG event, I'd rather just get spoiled fish to hammer or switch to Wilson and transmute hounds teeth. You might argue that if I just kill every worm boss I encounter and carry the shards around with me, I wouldn't need shards in the first place, but that goes to my other point...

23 minutes ago, Milordo said:

We only discussed about his loot in a bubble. He spawns (for now) during waves, so we do have already a perception when he will come, so why can't you accept his loot?? Especially if you can be near your base?? Why your inventory space is full? And don't get me wrong, it's not at all situational to have it full in all parts of the game, but why then can't you just....go to your base and go back to pick up the rest as everyone do..?

If the stars align where I happen to be near the entrance without having made any progress towards whatever I planned to do in the caves (which is usually some multi-day activity), then yeah sure I'd pick up the loot, but if I'm dedicating my time to, say, mining stalagmites or clearing the ruins, then yes, I use my full inventory space. I cannot afford even to carry a stack of monster meat. Especially in the case of the ruins, I can end up with 6 different gems, two stacks of thulecite, thulecite fragments, frazzled wires, two stacks of nightmare fuel, gears, etc. I need space for food, I need space for glowberries (or nightberries), multiple armor slots (if I'm using bone armor), hammers and pickaxes if I don't have a smasher, etc. If I encounter the greater depths worm while I'm in the ruins, the only thing I'm taking from it is its glowberry, and maybe thulecite or gems if it happens to drop any.

23 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Monster meat never rot that fast, even if it is summer??? Wh-wh-y are you letting monster meat to rot on the floor when it's one of the most powerful items in the game???? 

If I kill a couple depth worms in the lichen biome on my approach to the ruins, it will be at least stale by the time I finish the ruins. Monster meat is good, but easily farmable anywhere, especially with me as Winona where I can just plop down a silk farm. If I'm in the ruins, I'm keeping mostly ruins-exclusive resources.

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

snip

Okay, now I'm following. I want to ask now, what about your cave base and/or ruins base? I do have them normally and fix these particular situations you're describing, like I don't have problems for an RNG event because it will come by the time I spent on being down there, and from your explanation it kinda seems you don't have them and treat caves as a "dungeon". 

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

You're not considering the chances of rocks and gems when falling from earthquakes and when they do also break.

You're not considering when playing from 1 player to max 6 players.

Honestly, even considering the chances and the gems breaking, I still think it’s a better option, if only because moleworms exist. You will inevitably have moleworms around your caves if you dont do anything to stop them from the cave quakes, and they will passively collect the minerals that drop in their burrows for you to dig up. This is especially relevant in the ruins, as the space is much more condensed, and because of how often players go to the ruins over anywhere else, there are a lot more moleworms there.

In addition, earthquakes also scale with the amount of players. 6 players in quakes is going to net you way more minerals than one, let alone the fact you can potentially induce quakes yourself to farm even more minerals if needed. 

Of course, if you have pillars and the like you are not going to get minerals, but if you are at the point you can reasonably cover a large part of the caves with pillars, you are probably not going to care about the random gem/thule drops the worm drops, especially once the rifts get up and especially when you get a decent stockpile of gem trees to farm practically all the gems (and dupe the thule) then you could possibly desire.

Not saying the existing loot is in a bad spot (I still think it’s better then relying on dust moths…) but I do think guaranteeing some gems/thule in addition to the rolls of chance based gems/thule would feel a bit better IMO, but that’s how I personally feel.

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Okay, now I'm following. I want to ask now, what about your cave base and/or ruins base? I do have them normally and fix these particular situations you're describing, like I don't have problems for an RNG event because it will come by the time I spent on being down there, and from your explanation it kinda seems you don't have them and treat caves as a "dungeon". 

Caves is a bit of a "winmore" to me. I usually do have a caves base at some point, but it can take 1000 days or so before I seriously consider one. There's just not a lot of incentive to keep returning to the caves outside of having something to do during summer. That's an entirely different problem with the caves, tbh -- we need more biomes and interesting content there.

[chirsg]

I'm really just watching the forums just try to influence decisions to make the worm worse, not including OP. 

Hamlet mod is in it's infancy and is only getting better, assuming it adheres strictly to hamlet. 

 

IA hamlet, by virtue of above the clouds is on the horizon as well, having that actually implement skill trees into the game. 

 

I suppose the only way we deal with tragedy is through comedy. Spark it all up. Have no significant manner of unique yields from slaying an environmental danger. Be at a loss for now reason, but for the simple crime of being in the caves for too long.

I'll watch it burn. I'll watch the children play with rubies the size of tangerines. 

 

If there's nothing to gain, then there's nothing for me in baseline DST. 

I hope the modders of this game all the success in the world. 

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Honestly, even considering the chances and the gems breaking, I still think it’s a better option, if only because moleworms exist. You will inevitably have moleworms around your caves if you dont do anything to stop them from the cave quakes, and they will passively collect the minerals that drop in their burrows for you to dig up. This is especially relevant in the ruins, as the space is much more condensed, and because of how often players go to the ruins over anywhere else, there are a lot more moleworms there.

In addition, earthquakes also scale with the amount of players. 6 players in quakes is going to net you way more minerals than one, let alone the fact you can potentially induce quakes yourself to farm even more minerals if needed. 

Of course, if you have pillars and the like you are not going to get minerals, but if you are at the point you can reasonably cover a large part of the caves with pillars, you are probably not going to care about the random gem/thule drops the worm drops, especially once the rifts get up and especially when you get a decent stockpile of gem trees to farm practically all the gems (and dupe the thule) then you could possibly desire.

Not saying the existing loot is in a bad spot (I still think it’s better then relying on dust moths…) but I do think guaranteeing some gems/thule in addition to the rolls of chance based gems/thule would feel a bit better IMO, but that’s how I personally feel.

Which is exactly my point and you said it yourself in the end, so you get it. Just because there are better methods, it doesn't diminish the value of a new one, even if it doesn't bring a new unique item on the table. All the "You're not considering..." was to pinpoint that having more alternatives or simply using ALL these methods, plus now the worm, doesn't hurt the game (especially if we're talking about caves..) and shouldn't be bashed by community. In fact I'm curious, since you proposed something at the end for the loot, how do you feel about the potential loot fix the community has found? 

 

Btw I have the urge to correct you, sorry, *nerd emoj*, yes, 6 players add more resources in earthquakes but only if they distance themselves from each other, if you want to min max. 

Also also, yeah, I use moleworms as "tax collectors" in my caves bases, for cleaning up the minerals from quakes and when the time comes, it's time to pay.

4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

 tbh -- we need more biomes and interesting content there.

 We need 4-5 big giant rework updates for caves, ruins and ocean to truly fix them. . . . . . .             :c 

[Maxil20]

11 minutes ago, Milordo said:

In fact I'm curious, since you proposed something at the end for the loot, how do you feel about the potential loot fix the community has found? 

I personally think the giant glow berry is a pretty fun suggestion (if you mean the post you linked in particular, otherwise I don’t have much to say on other suggestions).

If you really want to know what I would want, I would personally want the glow berry the worm drops to be a lesser glow berry plant, which would only work in the caves. I think it would be neat to have a cave exclusive plant while also doubling as a way to make it renewable in the caves (as the current plants don’t have regrowth and the forest stalker ones are temporary and only work on the surface). Most likely would follow general plant rules (will wither after a few attempts), and possibly have an alt texture like the forest stalker ones.

I think it would be a minor, but neat little thing. I don’t think it would make or break the game, but is a fun little novelty that could have some potential, with the other loot being a general bonus. I do know it would technically be something new, but I think a minor situational thing is fun.

21 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Btw I have the urge to correct you, sorry, *nerd emoj*, yes, 6 players add more resources in earthquakes but only if they distance themselves from each other, if you want to min max. 

 

I think it’s pretty realistic for a split between the 6, which is still quite a good chunk of resources (it will obviously not be 6X, but ~2-3 times as much compared to solo is still pretty decent). Even then You will also still get more resources with everyone together even if minerals destroy other minerals due to the sheer volume that fall (While immensely impractical, I would say you at least get 50%-double the amount compared to a solo player alone compared to 6 players close together).

Just keep in mind I am irrational and am used to farming earthquake minerals, I used to hoard old bells in DS and use them in the caves to force max level quakes…