Crab King is amazing. Thank you Klei!

[ALCRD]

Video doesn't load for me

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah see, here’s my problem with this entire topic: YOU may find it fun, YOU may find it easy to do, but YOU only count as ONE Person in a much larger sea of players trying to enjoy the game.

In fact I was playing Gotham Knights with a friend of mine last night & even though I’m an expert at it & could’ve played on maximum difficulty, I was playing the game with him on Normal but there was one particular area in the game where he absolutely kept getting his butt handed to him on a silver plater, eventually he paused the game & lowered the difficulty to Very Easy, just so he could get through it..

And that’s something DST just does not have, you can’t really raise or lower difficulty so content feels more enjoyable for you if you end up stuck trying to enjoy the content the game has to offer.

Which is ironic, considering that Crab King is the only boss in the entire game that depending upon what type of Gems you socket into him, determines how difficult the fight is going to be.

Which doesn’t really matter, cause you’ll still need to increase its difficulty a good bit by socketing pearls Pearl into it to progress the games story & content.

Now if you JUST want to fight CK without the Pearl (for whatever reason..) then you can socket lower level gems into it and sort of scale him down to “Easy Mode”

But lets all just be brutally honest here: Who in their right mind would ever want to fight CK for any reason OTHER than to progress the CC questline?

 

 

I understand your point, but let's start with a completely honest speech. Right?

Almost the entire community has never been able to and will never be able to defeat the majority of bosses using the mechanics proposed by Klei for each giant.

So a sea of players don't have fun with Ancient Fuelweaver, Bee Queen, and even simply can't go to the ruins (a dangerous place for most).

So the same treatment that you justify for CK, Klei should give to almost all bosses and even remove almost all the danger from the ruins to be fun for a sea of people.

I see some criticisms of strategies against CK, but they use walls for Dragonfly and catapults or tentacles to use on bosses, or they can only do anything in groups (never alone). They can use multiple flutes for the Bee Queen, but they won't accept using 8 purple gems?

The problem is the hypocrisy I see here.

In fact, I understand that some people are afraid, as I showed on the official forum that it is perfectly possible to face CK.

Now they no longer have the argument that it is impossible for developers and are clearly worried and are going to attack a video.

I'm not saying it's you, but you got the context.

[Seero]

all klei needs to do is give these two bosses a slight buff in drops

Maybe crab king doubles or triples the gems you give him on death, allowing gem duping by killing that giant nerd

And for toadstool/misery toadstool, man I don't know! Maybe he should be reworked to becoming a lunar alligned boss that drops thulecite (because thulecite is found in the archives!)
I don't know
but they need to be changed cause
if i'm starting a new world, I wish toadstool (and nightmare werepig too) were decisions in who i fight
dragonfly, bee queen, ancient guardian all have drops vastly superior to toabstool

 

THESE ARE JUST ME SPITBALLING IDEAS

it is a very simple process to altar toadstool and crab kings drops to make them worth fighting on their own merit

they don't even need to be new unique items.

Please klei i'm begging you
as of right now people kill toadstool because they include him when they do an all boss run

and people kill crab king to kill celestial champion
if people didn't care to kill all bosses
and if crab king was optional to fight CC

no one would be fighting them

Edited February 16 by Seero

[Cruvimaster]

And I still tell you that most of those who complain here can't defeat Wilson's or even Wolfgang's Ancient FuelWeaver.

[Seero]

5 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

 

I understand your point, but let's start with a completely honest speech. Right?

Almost the entire community has never been able to and will never be able to defeat the majority of bosses using the mechanics proposed by Klei for each giant.

So a sea of players don't have fun with Ancient Fuelweaver, Bee Queen, and even simply can't go to the ruins (a dangerous place for most).

So the same treatment that you justify for CK, Klei should give to almost all bosses and even remove almost all the danger from the ruins to be fun for a sea of people.

I see some criticisms of strategies against CK, but they use walls for Dragonfly and catapults or tentacles to use on bosses, or they can only do anything in groups (never alone). They can use multiple flutes for the Bee Queen, but they won't accept using 8 purple gems?

The problem is the hypocrisy I see here.

In fact, I understand that some people are afraid, as I showed on the official forum that it is perfectly possible to face CK.

Now they no longer have the argument that it is impossible for developers and are clearly worried and are going to attack a video.

I'm not saying it's you, but you got the context.

For what it's worth I don't find CK hard (then again, I cheese him with a flingo-matic sometimes). Just annoying because his only purpose is to get the item to kill cc

and his drops are bootycheeks otherwise

 

[_zwb]

6 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

And I still tell you that most of those who complain here can't defeat Wilson's or even Wolfgang's Ancient FuelWeaver.

I have killed the Ancient Fuel Weaver countless times, and? Fighting the Ancient Fuel Weaver ""legitimately"" didn't make me not complain about crab king.

[Masked Koopa]

I feel like how difficult he is is somewhat irrelevant so long as his drops can be obtained with a single fight. Like - this is a boss you can customise, and yet you have ZERO incentive to re-fight him, ever. The trident isn't even that bad, but it's a blueprint.

[Notecja]

what is that.... trick with feather hat?

[arubaro]

Fighting ck using boat mechanics is fun and having access to other stragies like using ice staffs or followers is always welcome, personalising the fight is a great concept and more when it can give use to gems that stock pile but, and is huge but, there are many problems that even the good parts where well implemented, which arent, covers them

1.- CK punish you in a "one shot KO" that makes really no sense for a fight that cost many resources and makes you travel again to his destination. This is not a souls game, there are not intended safe point other than using rollbacks so repeating fights due to one shots makes more sense in that kind of games

2.- the above means that fighting him in the "intended way" (sailing) is really hard for even 2 experienced players. Is really fun but the fight can be ruined by just 1 mistake

3.- the personalization is only good in concept, the application is horrible. CK gets crazy stats with every situation to the point of most players only using very few combination of gems that rely of ignoring his atacks by using ice staffs which also is related to the point 2

4.- one of the things that make he really hard is his claws having a lot of health and damage while also grabbing your boat. This is an overkill because CK geysers would finish your boat while grabbed... and we dont even use gems that buff the claws except for the mandatory pearl

5.- his heals are absurd. They won't be as bad if wasnt because of being on top of every other awful thing. The cherry on top

6.- the fight only cosists on summoning geysers, Summoning claws, freezing you and healing... kinda bland and ends up in silly situations where this powerful entity is beaten by few bees... they could add more atacks like using his claus to atack the player so we have more room from the constant fear of our boat being one shot by the claw+geysera combo while the gems could add different kind of atacks rather than flat imb4 stats. Like freezing atack only happening with socket blue gems, healing only when there is atleast 1 red gem, orange giving one kind of ability, etc

7.- the only reward is a recipe which makes him a 1 time fight. And you can get the recipe from klaus so you might fight him only to get the altar...he needs a drop like how BQ drops bundle wrap recipe but we keep fighting her to get jelly and crowns or how daywalker gives 4 recipes but we refight him to get more dreadstone... we need a item to summon the rain, he is perfect for the howling conch from SW...

Is so sad to see such cool design and ost behind such mess. I hope one of the top priorities of this year is to rework him into a fun sailing fight as he can be. Im thankful to @ADM to shown me how fun can be this fight which is also frustrating because if someone tries it they can see the potential this fight has

Edited February 16 by arubaro

[Well-met]

give it a rain conch and nerf the boosts of all non-purple gems

but noooo klei never revisits flawed content.

 

[Notecja]

Going back to topic, in more constructive way - note, I am not a fighter, so it's view rather from base-builder point - CK don't have good drops. They are medicore, and only important drop is from fight, when he gets extra buffed. That doesn't help, because most people will fight it only when need it and only the harder version. Not really I know how mechanically I could improve him, but I know as minimum extra drops could be:
- Ingredients for Strident Trident, especially horns as creature that drops them is rare and sometimes dangerous to fight (unless you are Wendy or Maxwell). Strident Trident would need to be crazily good to make up just effort of making it. And it's not, it's almost as much tool as fencing sword.
- Maybe a treasure chest or ... bunch of Pearl bottles? Opened or not. According to some available lore Crab King was looking for treasure. Then why not?
- OFC we could get some rain item. Not everything on sea must be related to sea!

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, Captain_Rage said:

That Feather Hat is savage.

This is what I wanted to say!  Regardless of that I've seen the fight done this way, and whatever about damage mod, etc - I think they chose a great outfit for the fight and that alone kept me watching <3

Good job OP for a well executed fight.  Nice technique to align attack rate to cancelling healing with freeze.

IMO Crab King is not a great fight - BUT ironically it is very close to a great fight imo.  What I like most about boss fights in DST is when there are multiple approaches you can take to the fight.  Sometimes I want to go in swinging, sometimes I want to get crafty and do something fun.  Crab King does offer multiple approaches as you can paddle around / place boats to dodge geysers, use ice staff or even flingo to freeze him, sync up attacks to block healing or just unleash some bees lol.

The bad thing about CK is the wasted potential of the gem buffs.  They could have made him a customizable boss where different gem slots might enable different approaches to the fight, but instead its like "purple to fight him, everything else to lolz."  Seriously at full blue + pearl you have 17 tile freeze range and -150 degrees... that's just stupid lol.  Unless you're out of purple gems (one of the most common gems b/c Bishops guarantee them) there is no reason to use anything else.  These should be re-balanced or possibly re-designed.

8 hours ago, zhangsheng said:

the scariest thing about the Imperial Crab is that it's difficult to remedy any mistakes you make.

Its not even just about mistakes - Its not a player-mistake that a bird landed or dropped a seed, or a claw dropped a meat and that blocked you from placing a boat.  Its not a mistake that a shark decided NOW, as you're fighting Crab King, is the time to jump on your boat.  The penalty for failure is pretty high, which is fine except the fight has some rng to it in these elements that can fail you even if you don't really make a mistake.

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

not forgiving too many mistakes is a good thing since otherwise it'd be too easy to ignore

They need to fix up some ocean stuff - Sharks, pirate raids, and boat placement are the 3 things I notice interfere with my CK fights in a way that I feel is unfair.

When I'm fighting a surface boss like Bee Queen or Dfly and hear a hound wave - first off I hear it, and I know it WILL come, and I can always just time the boss fight for after a wave has completed - but also they interact with the boss TOO, not just me.  A shark or pirate raid is only going to look at me, and combined with CK can be devestating.  It would be better if we had an ocean event clock similar to hound waves (maybe even use the same timer) that could spawn sharks or pirates.  Guarantee them on a clock so you know they will happen, but then you also know you can get them on CD and safely travel without dealing with them for a bit.

Also importantly - boat placement should push floating objects out of the way for the boat.

Edited February 16 by Yuuko

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Yuuko said:

It would be better if we had an ocean event clock similar to hound waves (maybe even use the same timer) that could spawn sharks or pirates

they could always make it work like FW and pause shark and pirate spawns while you're fighting CK, similarly to how depths worm waves and earthquakes don't happen while the ancient gateway is active

2 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Also importantly - boat placement should push floating objects out of the way for the boat

also birds

[hoxi]

8 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nerfing the claws to extinction would honestly bring the fight up so much.

It's amazing how the claws are the main issue with the fight, along with interrupting healing being able to require more than one hit as that just screws over solo players unless they use very specific methods.

The main issues with them is how they're there for most of the fight, how they can hold the boat in place instantly, even just a single claw, how long it takes to kill them on your own (even with Wolfgang, since you'll likely need to freeze Crab King to deal with them or use weather pains to interrupt the healing). All this on top of their decently high unavoidable damage on the boat. The only saving grace their current iteration could have is that boat bumpers could block and tank the damage first, but instead they just destroy bumpers, not even allowing that as an option.

I recently got more into modding this game to address some bugs on my own until klei fixes them or so, and things that just felt frustrating and boring to deal with, and that included this fight, so I gave it a try without doing too much complicated stuff. And did the following to see how it would feel:

Spoiler

• Lowered CK's threshold to start spawning claws from 90% to 60%.
• Significantly lowered claw health, from 500 to 100. Bonus health from gem count lowered from 50 to 20. (considering increasing this after further testing)
• Removed initial instance of damage when attaching to the boat and lowered claw damage from 35 to 20 (this means 5 per hit after attaching to your boat as it's divided by 4). Forced damage is a bad mechanic, so it's still in, but it's not ridiculous.
• Lowered individual claw respawn delay from 30 seconds to 20. Could further lower it.
• Made claws get physically attached to the boat similarly to Ocean Horrors (the claws don't do this currently, they pretend to since the boat stops completely) and removed ability to completely stop the boat entirely. Instead slowing it down like an anchor, and each claw adds more to this. This was the only change that needed additional code implementation other than changing some values.
• Unrelated to the claws, interrupting Crab King's healing only takes a single hit regardless (being able to deal with this only with very specific methods or exploits is just not fun, especially since not interrupting healing means you might never win). I did this with a hacky method out of not wanting to modify the claw stategraph file to change a single line, but it worked with the idea of testing it where Pearl's Pearl being the only thing to buff this, with no orange gems.

 

How did this change the fight for me?

• The fight no longer feels extremely punishing over a single mistake, yet it's still very much a multitasking fight completely different from other fights in the game, it still takes a while, and that can potentially use a good bit of resources if you mess up.
• I can now sail around for the entirety of the fight instead of trying to be in one specific spot using ice staves (they're still obviously very good for the fight as a panic button). Which, yeah, wow, a boat boss fight involving boat mechanics more than repairing a boat unsurprisingly makes it more fun.
• When claws are summoned, I still have to be mindful of my boat movement and placement, and that if I plan to move towards one to dodge some geysers, I'll have to deal with them and can even use them to my advantage now to stop my boat without them instantly dealing 35 damage to it that I couldn't avoid.
• I haven't tried it with different gem combinations but at least more options are up in the air. Claws not being extremely tanky and a single one not being able to end the fight means that maybe green gems are more of a valid option. Orange gems too since they'd just increase the healing massively (this could be further be increased if number of hits to interrupt is fixed to 1).
• I'm interacting with all aspects of the fight instead of bypassing them one way or another.

Klei could do more fancy things for sure and think about it more, I could probably too if I put more time into it, but I feel satisfied with the changes I made to it so far to have fun. The fight could massively be improved if the claws alone weren't were the sole reason the fight can go wrong so easily, as well as how destructive they are. Along with needing specific methods to be able to interrupt the massive healing Crab King has. If they could address these two points and allow the fight to be more boat focused than it is, I'm sure it'd be more fun.

Something to keep in mind here is that what I did was to make it fun, while retaining some of the difficulty, but never overstepping on the fun (this is still arguable due to how long the fight can take, but I legitimately found myself having fun with it, whereas every time I tried the vanilla fight, it was the most frustrating and annoying experience I had with this game and nothing comes close to it). If you think I made too easy or something, don't miss the point that the fight isn't hard, it's artificially hard, and so many methods bypassing mechanics or working around them proves that. The fight could be fun, and somewhat difficult, and players can make it harder on themselves with specific gems if they wish.

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

I have killed the Ancient Fuel Weaver countless times, and? Fighting the Ancient Fuel Weaver ""legitimately"" didn't make me not complain about crab king.

I made a video showing the use of a fighting technique, among the many that exist (using Weather Pain, Wolfgang's freezing dumbbells, bees, Ice Flingomatic, bringing together 6 people to melt the boss in a beating, etc.) and expressed my opinion about the work done by Klei (can I like something Klei does?).

Here come people questioning using Wigfrid with Ham Bat when facing the boss alone, using purple gems (Klei's strategy), being guilty of knowing the position of the boat, being unhappy with canceling the attack animation (I can redo the fight without it) etc. .

Do you think it's bad to bring DST videos to the DST forum?

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, hoxi said:

how long it takes to kill them on your own (even with Wolfgang, since you'll likely need to freeze Crab King to deal with them or use weather pains to interrupt the healing)

it takes a lot of time to kill them with x1 damage multiplier but it's fine as wolfgang, if the boat almost broke you place a new one, if CK is healing you go up to him and start holding F at the right time to interrupt the healing and place a new boat after he finishes healing

10 minutes ago, hoxi said:

the fight isn't hard, it's artificially hard

what does "artificially" mean? if that means unfair, then even by the new boss standards that only require you to bring basic stuff like a weapon it isn't, since you only need an oar and a ham bat

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

Now they no longer have the argument that it is impossible for developers and are clearly worried and are going to attack a video

tbh that just sounds odd, CK kills with even less equipment existed before too and most people on the forums probably knew about them

Edited February 16 by grm9

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it takes a lot of time to kill them with x1 damage multiplier but it's fine as wolfgang, if the boat almost broke you place a new one, if CK is healing you go up to him and start holding F at the right time to interrupt the healing and place a new boat after he finishes healing

what does "artificially" mean? if that means unfair, then even by the new boss standards that only require you to bring basic stuff like a weapon it isn't, since you only need an oar and a ham bat

tbh that just sounds odd, CK kills with even less equipment existed before too and most people on the forums probably knew about them

You need a lot more than an Oar & a Hambat to fight Crab King, and depending on which character your playing as.. this fight could be easier or harder- and no I’m not talking about Wes & Wolfgang the two obvious power choices..

Im talking about characters like Willow, who will start suffering health point damage the very second she starts to get cold.

Youll at least need some thermal item and a way to keep warm while fighting this boss, Stop trying to simplify it to “Hambat & Oar”

If it were really that easy- I wouldn’t complain about how terrible the boss is.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Youll at least need some thermal item and a way to keep warm while fighting this boss

freezing is chip damage and you certainly won't die from it if you start the fight with at least 50 hp if it isn't winter

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You need a lot more than an Oar & a Hambat to fight Crab King

forgot to mention grass boats and grass but i thought that'd be obvious

[hoxi]

20 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it takes a lot of time to kill them with x1 damage multiplier but it's fine as wolfgang, if the boat almost broke you place a new one, if CK is healing you go up to him and start holding F at the right time to interrupt the healing and place a new boat after he finishes healing

It only being "fine" only with Wolfgang is a problem, given that the claws alone determine the most how the fight goes, if he just sped up the fight, it'd be fine, since that's what he usually does.

Regarding interrupting healing when two hits are required with Pearl's Pearl, it's a bit ridiculous to say "just do this" given that it's not indicated in anyway when the time is right, and the timing is very restrictive and not intuitive.

20 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what does "artificially" mean? if that means unfair, then even by the new boss standards that only require you to bring basic stuff like a weapon it isn't, since you only need an oar and a ham bat

It's artificially difficult because the claws have too much health, deal too much damage, stop the boat entirely and quickly, making the only boat mechanic at that point being repairing the boat or placing a new one (which as people pointed out can easily be ruined by items or birds nearby). Requiring more than one hit to interrupt healing is artificial as it lowers the possible methods for a solo player to a very few, some of them being grindy and boring, and I'm not counting animation cancelling or perfect timing (as both were likely not accounted for when the fight was made, they counted on extra players or npc followers).

The geysers themselves would be fine if you were allowed to move, even if they resulted in a dozen of leaks in your boat, because at that point it's your fault. You didn't get stopped by multiple +500 health walls that also obliterate your boat with ease.

When people tend to bypass most of the mechanics as a result, it's not difficult.

Edit: I feel like I should also clarify. I'm not trying to discredit people that do the vanilla fight, regardless of method. I applaud those people for having the patience for it. However, we shouldn't set the bar to that kind of performance and patience to be able to do the fight.

It should be fun and challenging, not exactly like the reworked Ancient Guardian fight (which is good fun fight), but more leaning towards that and less on the boring side of what that fight used to be, which is what Crab King feels like, just in a different way.

Ice staves and weather pains should compliment the fight and make it easier, not be a necessity or the bare minimum to do it (yes I'm aware there's weather pain-less methods).

Edited February 16 by hoxi

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, hoxi said:

It only being "fine" only with Wolfgang is a problem

that's true and i wasn't saying that this shouldn't be changed because of this

3 minutes ago, hoxi said:

given that it's not indicated in anyway when the time is right

you need to start holding F around when the rock in his hand fully covers the pearl during the first heal

3 minutes ago, hoxi said:

Requiring more than one hit to interrupt healing is artificial as it lowers the possible methods for a solo player to a very few

what's does "artificial" mean? Does that just mean not being allowed to do the fight by only attacking while the boss isn't attacking and walking/rowing?

6 minutes ago, hoxi said:

When people tend to bypass most of the mechanics as a result, it's not difficult

freezing him during casts, using weather pains to cancel healing, placing new boats etc. isn't bypassing, you're still interacting with the fight's mechanics, you aren't disabling the boss' AI by attacking it from the void or something

8 minutes ago, hoxi said:

It's artificially difficult because the claws have too much health, deal too much damage, stop the boat entirely and quickly, making the only boat mechanic at that point being repairing the boat or placing a new one (which as people pointed out can easily be ruined by items or birds nearby)

they should make it possible to place boats on top of items and birds and reduce claws' hp, but the rest is fine

10 minutes ago, hoxi said:

(as both were likely not accounted for when the fight was made, they counted on extra players or npc followers)

why do a lot of people care about what the devs intended?

[Fufuji]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

And I still tell you that most of those who complain here can't defeat Wilson's or even Wolfgang's Ancient FuelWeaver.

does "cheese" count?

[JazzyGames]

I thought the fight was super impressive, especially the anim cancelling and the way you froze CK during the heals to line up the attacks to cancel most of the healing. You’re obviously a skilled player and knowledgeable about the mechanics of this boss.

Your fight also demonstrates that this boss does not have the most polished mechanics; its healing mechanism is way overtuned that you can only cancel with strict timing. Claws do an incredible amount of damage to boats and have amped up HP, and geysers are 1-hit-KO. Also aside from CC progression, its drops are hardly worth doing the fight to begin with.

I think the reason you may be getting pushback here is because you framed your video as proof that this fight was well-designed. I’d imagine the response would have been different had you simply framed it as a demonstration of a new strategy.

Dealing 80 damage with a ham bat as Wigfrid with animation cancelling is impressive but I personally don’t find it an accurate portrayal of the average experience of this fight. You will spend considerably more resources as a default damage character, more ice staves to cancel everything, more hits to kill claws, and more boards to heal your boat. It’s expensive however you want to play it unless you wanna drop some bees and row in circles.

Still I enjoyed the fight; thanks for showing how to cancel the heals; I did not know you could do that and will definitely try it out next time!

[Cruvimaster]

4 minutes ago, JazzyGames said:

I thought the fight was super impressive, especially the anim cancelling and the way you froze CK during the heals to line up the attacks to cancel most of the healing. You’re obviously a skilled player and knowledgeable about the mechanics of this boss.

Your fight also demonstrates that this boss does not have the most polished mechanics; its healing mechanism is way overtuned that you can only cancel with strict timing. Claws do an incredible amount of damage to boats and have amped up HP, and geysers are 1-hit-KO. Also aside from CC progression, its drops are hardly worth doing the fight to begin with.

I think the reason you may be getting pushback here is because you framed your video as proof that this fight was well-designed. I’d imagine the response would have been different had you simply framed it as a demonstration of a new strategy.

Dealing 80 damage with a ham bat as Wigfrid with animation cancelling is impressive but I personally don’t find it an accurate portrayal of the average experience of this fight. You will spend considerably more resources as a default damage character, more ice staves to cancel everything, more hits to kill claws, and more boards to heal your boat. It’s expensive however you want to play it unless you wanna drop some bees and row in circles.

Still I enjoyed the fight; thanks for showing how to cancel the heals; I did not know you could do that and will definitely try it out next time!

I am your follower and I am happy with your always valuable observations. Thanks!

[Guille6785]

13 hours ago, Cassielu said:

Don't you find yourself standing on a completely immobile ship that is carefully positioned on the X-Z axis based on data mine rather than in-game experience, using an unrelated item, only one or two of the boss's countless gem combinations really work, and any experience you have with sailing is a useless trap in this battle?

"datamine" ????? placing the boat where only 2 claws can reach you does not require datamining lmao

also relevant for anyone who thinks ice staves/setups/a specific spot in the arena for the boat are necessary (I used only purples here because I was lazy but you can actually add oranges/yellows/blues/reds and this would still work): 

Crab King is far from my favorite boss but I think he's overhated, the biggest issue is the lack of drops

Edited February 17 by Guille6785

[hoxi]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

"datemine" ????? placing the boat where only 2 claws can reach you does not require datamining lmao

Maybe that specific bit is a bit of a reach because it's not, the rest is pretty accurate though.

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

video

That video highlights a huge part of why the fight is artificial and problematic in design. Your boats are forced to take damage no matter what in the current iteration of it, just from the claws alone, meaning how many resources you bring dictates how much time you have. There's simply no way around it outside of methods like using bees and staying far away (this is valid and this will work regardless of what changes about the fight, even if it's a boring method).

That said, it's impressive you can do it with very basic materials like that, even if you have to use a decent amount of them.

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

also relevant for anyone who thinks ice staves/setups/a specific spot in the arena for the boat are necessary (I used only purples here because I was lazy but you can actually add oranges/yellows/blues/reds and this would still work): 

Should probably not be setting the bar for everyone to be able to do this and pretend it's simple. A lot of responses to people asking for a more fun/less frustrating fight are like this, "X method exists", usually accompanied or alluding a vibe of "if you can't do it it's on you and the devs shouldn't change it". Which really comes across as elitist a lot of the time.

Edited February 17 by hoxi