Crab King is amazing. Thank you Klei!

[_zwb]

17 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

it was explicitly stated to be an intended mechanic

 

45 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I never claimed it was intended from the start,

Doesn't seem like it but whatever

[Guille6785]

6 minutes ago, _zwb said:

 

Doesn't seem like it but whatever

these are not the same statement

[Cruvimaster]

Wilson, without attack cancellation and approximately 2 minutes less (another video is 9 minutes).
 

What's your excuse now?

Amount of resources spent:
 

1 boat + 8 boards + 11 Cactus + 7 dark swords (***) + 7 ice staffs (***) + 1 use of the Star Caller's Staff.
 

Is pressing F difficult? That's practically what I did.

(***) If I were to count the fragments of the items that remained, there were 6 and not 7 of each.

Edited February 19 by Cruvimaster

[arubaro]

25 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

What's your excuse now?

The problem you dont see cuz your pathetic pride blinds you is that this boss could be way better than the mess is currently. The boss is doable solo with wes, nobody is denying it, you are proving nothing

You are defending a poor design where 99% player either use the same gem configuration or cheese it in a brainless way. Both things are a symptom of a bad design

26 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Is pressing F difficult? That's practically what I did

Isnt difficult but boring.  Also nothing is difficult when you are restarting over and over until mastering, everything is easy after 5 or 500 tries so i dont get what kind of medall are you looking for or what are you trying to proof to who

Also there are people with a life that might not want to expend time preparing a fight via commands until mastering it but instead want to actually play the game

[hoxi]

6 hours ago, Ridley said:

Animation cancelling was made to allow the player to stop accidental attacks, cancel accidental crafts and constructions, and to run away before the enemy hits back. Stuff like faster attacking is a unintended exploit that the devs permit, so long as it doesn't create issues.

Lets not pretend clicky hat jank is intended design that validates bad boss mechanics.

Yeah, way I see it is, animation cancelling is an obviously intended feature to make combat be less frustrating by not forcing you to go through an entire attack animation (including end lag). This is especially due to the fact latency is a thing in DST (even the little latency of a solo player using caves), unlike singleplayer DS, since it means that players could easily get locked into attack animations when they shouldn't have, and then take hits because of it, which leads to even more frustration due to latency. That said, everyone can agree that it would benefit singleplayer DS too as it just inherently feels better over losing control for the entire animation.

Now, players swapping head or body gear to cancel animations and attack way faster and so? Doubtful that was intended to be a common method of combat and considered for balance, even if they did consider that players might use it that way. I seriously doubt Klei balances anything with perfect animation cancelling DPS in mind, that'd be incredibly problematic if so. It'd be setting a standard where anyone that doesn't do it is at severe disadvantage, for something that was put in there as a means to prevent player frustration and make combat less rigid.

Point is, animation cancelling is a QoL feature, very likely not intended to be used to maximize DPS, but absolutely intended to be there nonetheless, and for good reasons. People can do whatever they want outside of that, so as long as they don't try to force it upon others to have to do the same, or put them down for doing it or not doing it.

Edited February 20 by hoxi

[Cruvimaster]

14 minutes ago, hoxi said:

Yeah, way I see it is, animation cancelling is an obviously intended feature to make combat be less frustrating by not forcing you to go through an entire attack animation (including end lag). This is especially due to the fact latency is a thing in DST (even the little latency of a solo player using caves), unlike singleplayer DS, since it means that players could easily get locked into attack animations when they shouldn't have, and then take hits because of it, which leads to even more frustration due to latency. That said, everyone can agree that it would benefit singleplayer DS too as it just inherently feels better over losing control for the entire animation.

Now, players swapping head or body gear to cancel animations and attack way faster and so? Doubtful that was intended to be a common method of combat and considered for balance, even if they did consider that players might use it that way. I seriously doubt Klei balances anything with perfect animation cancelling DPS in mind, that'd be incredibly problematic if so. It'd be setting a standard where anyone that doesn't do it is at severe disadvantage, for something that was put in there as a means to prevent player frustration and make combat less rigid.

I can even tell you that it was much safer and more comfortable NOT to use animation cancellation in the last video.

There have been times when I even got confused when trying to exchange a weapon with a staff because I had the hat on the mouse pointer (and not on the character's head) (it is not possible to exchange items). And this error can be fatal in this fight.

Just pressing F will never have this problem.

Edited February 20 by Cruvimaster

[zhangsheng]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

What's your excuse now?

I don't understand what you mean.

Who would make excuses for a video or for a game boss.

To be honest, everyone is just discussing whether the mechanism of this boss is reasonable, while you tirelessly defeat it over and over again. So what are you trying to prove? Is this boss mechanism reasonable? The same answer, even if you defeat it with Wes, doesn't mean its mechanism is very reasonable.

If defeating it proves that the mechanism is reasonable, then DST has no unreasonable bosses. But the situation is obviously not like this, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people giving you advice.

[Cruvimaster]

32 minutes ago, zhangsheng said:

I don't understand what you mean.

Who would make excuses for a video or for a game boss.

To be honest, everyone is just discussing whether the mechanism of this boss is reasonable, while you tirelessly defeat it over and over again. So what are you trying to prove? Is this boss mechanism reasonable? The same answer, even if you defeat it with Wes, doesn't mean its mechanism is very reasonable.

If defeating it proves that the mechanism is reasonable, then DST has no unreasonable bosses. But the situation is obviously not like this, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people giving you advice.

 

I'll summarize:

1. You are using a character with damage modification (Wigfrid);
2. You are using attack cancellation;
3. You are only using purple gems (was that a joke?);
4. Knows how to align the boat (was this a joke? Would anyone get the pearl without researching? Is researching the game prohibited?);
5. Standard character (1x) cannot defend the claws in time, needs to reduce their health;

Well, that's all I'm talking about. If you followed each of the speeches you know all this.

[zhangsheng]

5 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'll summarize:

1. You are using a character with damage modification (Wigfrid);
2. You are using attack cancellation;
3. You are only using purple gems (was that a joke?);
4. Knows how to align the boat (was this a joke? Would anyone get the pearl without researching? Is researching the game prohibited?);
5. Standard character (1x) cannot defend the claws in time, needs to reduce their health;

Well, that's all I'm talking about. If you followed each of the speeches you know all this.

Okay, if that's the case, then you don't have to worry about this group of people at all. After all, even if you use Wes to defeat it, there will still be someone to criticize.

But I still have to say that the mechanism of the Crab King is still problematic. I don't want to rigidly follow a single process to defeat it, at least let it have a few more modes and let the gemstones play a role.

[Ryusuta]

4 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I saw a lot of your comments, but please answer me: how do you fight CK? With bees? With Weather Pain? Do you face him alone?

Bee cheese, every time. It's safe, quick, efficient, and cost-effective.

More power to you and anyone else who does it with a more direct approach. That's definitely an impressive feat. But it's not something I personally want to do.

Edited February 20 by Ryusuta

[shaurun]

I believe Crab King is designed as a raid boss. Dealing with him solo in a fair fight is obviously much more difficult and requires skill. Doing it fairly worth it only as long as you enjoy doing it that way.

People who complain on CK battle design do so because they don't enjoy the fight, and don't see the reason to master it cause it's boring for them. They have the right to say that.

Also, it's stupid to say that animation cancelation is official. Developers simply don't want to do anything with it, but this is not the intended usage of the mechanic. Almost any game has animation cancelation stategies used by speedrunners community, nobody complains about that because whatever, let it be, and it really requires some skill to use. Removing it completely is difficult because you character will become uncontrollable: if you click attack, it would run to the target until the attack lands even if it's stupid running gobbler and you won't be able to stop this. Animation cancelation is required to make your character responsive, but it was never designed to speed up attacks.

Another point to mention is so called "cheesing". In speeedruns strategies that deal with boss/section of the game fast are welcome. Not all people belong to speedrunning community, but as to me if a person found a way to deal with boss easy in a legal way - it's good and not a subject to shame. Legal cheese includes usage of other mobs to deal with a boss (since game has the mechanic of mob interaction, usage of bees is legal), usage of gunpowder (it's an official craftable item). Illegal cheese are void walk, blocking an enemy with non-wall objects such as lureplants or statues - I believe these are bugs.

As for the author, you are definetely skilled player and I respect that. I don't like how you behave as if you're the only right person, and everyone should shut up and be like you. I honestly hope you'll continue improve and you'll find more new mechanics to share with the community, and probably your videos will make some batlles easier for others.But please be respectful of other opiniions. 

I don't have enough skill to understand how your video differs from other youtubers solo CK fighs, so it would be very nice if you'll create some "tutorial" and "boss explanation" kind of videos. Like "here he heals and I need to deal at least X damage during this period of time to cancel healing, so I ignore the claw for now" and "Since my boat has Y health, I can ignore the damage, but after Z health point I won't be able to do that", or "geyser attack has this collision type, so these bubbles won't affect the boat" etc. It would be helpfull and surely appreciated much more that simply saing that you're skilled and others who complain simply suck, even if your opinion is true. 

 

Edited February 20 by shaurun
typos

[Fufuji]

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

What's your excuse now?

Im very curious about how could defeating CK with Wilson brings to you so much pride.

It's like you are an "extremely expert" player with ~1000 hours of gameplay, whose limited knowledge about the game and yet-to-be-peaked combating skills gives them unlimited courage to boast every achievement they have made.

[Antynomity]

13 hours ago, arubaro said:

The problem you dont see cuz your pathetic pride blinds you is that this boss could be way better than the mess is currently. The boss is doable solo with wes, nobody is denying it, you are proving nothing

You are defending a poor design where 99% player either use the same gem configuration or cheese it in a brainless way. Both things are a symptom of a bad design

Isnt difficult but boring.  Also nothing is difficult when you are restarting over and over until mastering, everything is easy after 5 or 500 tries so i dont get what kind of medall are you looking for or what are you trying to proof to who

Also there are people with a life that might not want to expend time preparing a fight via commands until mastering it but instead want to actually play the game

I love how he straight up ignored this comment for the sake of convenience LOL

[DinsdaleP]

11 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Bee cheese, every time. It's safe, quick, efficient, and cost-effective.

I wouldn't even necessarily call it cheese, just a smart use of game mechanics - you're not exploiting anything faulty with the AI, just dropping a bunch of confused and angry bees in the middle of the ocean.

Especially true given how you can mess around with other players during winter's feast by leaving a gift filled with killer bees under the tree, and it'll results in the exact same effect (with a bit of added panicking and running).

[Capybara007]

Dst players when i want to play the game instead of spending 7 hours on the wiki, 5 hours watching guides, 10 hours per day testing stuff with godmode to finally progress in the game

Edited February 20 by Capybara007

[Neu7ral]

Crab King fight it's awesome honestly, a good way to actually use the resources you are given and think outside the box, the thing is, too much HP and no actual good reward more than game progress.

I'd say it's a half-baked fight with the philosophy of the old boss fights combined with the new ones, this makes it a bit awkward.

Personally I just use Maxwell fragments + bees and go brrrrrrrr because the fight is too long.

[ALCRD]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

Dst players when i want to play the game instead of spending 7 hours on the wiki, 5 hours watching guides, 10 hours per day testing stuff with godmode to finally progress in the game

Or my favorite - Rollbacks

Crab King I've come to bargian!

Edited February 20 by ALCRD

[Cruvimaster]

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Dst players when i want to play the game instead of spending 7 hours on the wiki, 5 hours watching guides, 10 hours per day testing stuff with godmode to finally progress in the game

Nice to see you here on the forum reading the posts instead of being in the game. Welcome!

 

Edited February 20 by Cruvimaster

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Neu7ral said:

Crab King fight it's awesome honestly

2 hours ago, Neu7ral said:

Personally I just use Maxwell fragments + bees and go brrrrrrrr because the fight is too long.

Doublethinking

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

Nice to see you here on the forum reading the posts instead of being in the game. Welcome!

 

Spent time not playing the game, opinion rejected

[Castiliano]

Boring and worst loot ever
It's an offense to call it loot fr

[Maxposting]

pointless rage-bait methinks.

[Mike23Ua]

Strip away the YouTube videos, strip away the Twitch streams, the Wiki descriptions, and googling for all the answers, and then let’s be brutally honest-

How many casual players do you think are going to discover Crab King, figure out how to activate its fight & why your fighting it?

yeah… exactly, those are the questions I want to talk about.

Is Crab King still such an amazing fight then?

[-Variant]

I've got nothing to contribute other than the fact I find it funny how this page just showed up in my unread feed right after finding an unused Boat Bumper listing for "Boat_crab_bumper" that looks like this. Just thought it was funny.

[Cruvimaster]

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

How many casual players do you think are going to discover Crab King, figure out how to activate its fight & why your fighting it?

 

Your argument is very interesting, the problem is that you purposely try to direct this towards a boss you don't like and try to hide the truth about DST: the game itself is not intuitive for ALMOST EVERY THING. Without any type of research you simply won't progress in the game.

You've simply already researched a lot of things in the game and if you say otherwise you'll simply be lying.

Be honest in your speech and answer me:

1. How many casual players can discover on their own (a) the existence of the Ancient Fuelweaver; (b) how to build it; (c) how to fight like him?
2. How many casual players can simply do the crab tasks on their own to get the pearl?

3. How many casual players can do almost all of the bosses without seeing someone do it first?

Klei even created a compendium within the game to provide more information about the game itself precisely because it is not intuitive.

For you, the game's incredible mechanics must be fighting Treeguard.

The mechanics of CK are infinitely easier than those of AF. To criticize CK you have to first criticize AF.

Klei is always concerned about casual players, including for a business strategy. But it also knows it has to think about other types of players. And that is the essence of DST.

And there are even specific threads of people complaining that the game is becoming too easy. It's not my thoughts, but I respect anyone who thinks this way.

Edited February 21 by Cruvimaster