Crab King is amazing. Thank you Klei!

[Cruvimaster]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

I'm not asking you to change the Crab King in the first place

So everything is resolved. Good game to you.

[Yuuko]

16 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Making the player abuse rollback isn't something good either...

To each their own.  My feelings are that I don't feel good rolling back in a "real game" but setting up practice environments is totally fine.

Especially in later DST content where so much setup is required...  I couldn't imagine taking each fail and re-starting Crab King just to work out boat placement or timing to break his healing with autos.

I have a whole list of practice worlds with setups and saves to let me re-run different scenarios b/c in a real game I might go 100 or more days before I do a task, and I might only do it once in a world, and possibly not in every world...  Its good to run through it a few times before committing to it "for real."  Not just boss fights, but like setting up different farms or other interactions too.

I like variety in DST so I'm always on the lookout for new innovative ways to approach things so there are lists of ways to do X, and each time I do X I might need a refresher on how and why something works, or test even IF it still works lol.

Edited February 17 by Yuuko

[Popian]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:34 PM, grm9 said:

why do a lot of people care about what the devs intended?

Figuring out the minimum requirements from the preferred solutions(s) of the one who makes a puzzle lets you determine whether what was expected of you is reasonable.

Unfortunately the solution(s) may never get revealed as it may remain unsolved for a good portion of players and figuring it out is part of the fun, but things can be inferred from the likes of "hitting Crab King interrupts the heal so I have to move my boat close or target it with something that can go on/over water".

7 hours ago, Yuuko said:

I couldn't imagine taking each fail and re-starting Crab King just to work out boat placement

It takes a minimum 2 times to notice a pattern and a third to confirm it. This can also be done through despawning so rollbacks technically aren't required, but they could save a lot more time. Even then, I don't think having to deal with a third claw requires that much more resources but I'm not sure.

[Yuuko]

27 minutes ago, Popian said:

Even then, I don't think having to deal with a third claw requires that much more resources but I'm not sure.

I mean, you want damage up time on CK.  Your time is distracted by repairing the boat, casting ice on spells, walking away from freeze spells, killing a claw, killing a claw, and killing a claw.  I think having 2 vs 3 is a good boon as you're basically refunded like 8 swings for CK each rotation.  Since there is forced damage on each attach, and even with a damage boost its not super easy to kill them before attaching, you're going to go up +50% in board use as well with 3 vs 2.

Of course anyone could go AFW first then CK and bring a scythe + hood for a nice damage boost to overcome what a 3rd claw might mean.  But then of course, the damage mod would STILL be more efficient used on CK instead for an even faster fight...

Edited February 18 by Yuuko

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

So everything is resolved. Good game to you.

You were essentially saying everyone who disliked crab king had a skill issue and being super sarcastic, rude and inconstructive about it. You had it coming. You can resolve it but not by trying shifting the target or the point.

[KvltBear]

I have no idea why people twist themselves into a pretzel to try and master this fight. It's ridiculous and for me impossible. It's much more satisfying to stuff him full of blue gems and watch him get wrecked by Sea Weeds. Crab King doesn't even attempt to fight you, he attacks your weak and defenseless boat. Seems more thematic to me to take him out indirectly. Plus he exists only to drop a mere 1/3 of the Celestial Champion fight items. Even if you're speedrunning surely it's easier to get some bees than weather pains and blue gems and waste hours mastering this timing pattern?

[Bird Up]

best strategy is to put 40 killer bees in a chest, then let crab king sink the boat, destroying the chest and unleashing the bees, then just sail in circles around crab king until it dies.

Edited February 18 by Bird Up

[Reecitz]

@hoxi Have you thought about releasing a mod that's simply allows you to reconfigure the various numbers of Crab King based on what you've done to playtest it yourself? You could even call it "True Customizable Boss" or something. 

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You were essentially saying everyone who disliked crab king had a skill issue and being super sarcastic, rude and inconstructive about it. You had it coming. You can resolve it but not by trying shifting the target or the point.

I just got tired. That was what happened.

Many criticisms are valid, obviously. But some approaches tired me.

Of all the tasks that CK requires the player to do, the only one that I consider problematic, I repeat: I, is the cancellation of life regeneration. That's what makes him "impossible" to beat. By neutralizing this element the boss falls sooner (Wolfgang) or later (Wilson).

The 3-claw attack would also be another insurmountable difficulty for most characters, but there is an easy solution in the game by positioning the boat in the right way. 2 Claws, however, is completely manageable for standard damage characters.

Manageable is not synonymous with being easy. We can all manage the fight against Ancient Fuelweaver, but that doesn't mean it's easy. It requires training and many players go for easier solutions. They do this on any giant, in fact.

Exactly because of the difficulty of hitting the specific pixel that neutralizes regeneration that people use bees. The Weather Pain item also performs this function. In fact, this last item mentioned also interrupts the healing of AF, which is nothing new to anyone.

In the video I show that it is possible to beat him without Weather Pain. This is great for anyone looking to defeat the Celestial Champion before the first winter ends.

It is worth noting that even if Klei makes any type of change to CK, almost all players who use bees or ice flingomatic will continue to do so. It's the lazy path or rather the comfort zone. They will only change if Klei prevents the use of these techniques.

[Jakepeng99]

15 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I just got tired. That was what happened.

Many criticisms are valid, obviously. But some approaches tired me.

Of all the tasks that CK requires the player to do, the only one that I consider problematic, I repeat: I, is the cancellation of life regeneration. That's what makes him "impossible" to beat. By neutralizing this element the boss falls sooner (Wolfgang) or later (Wilson).

The 3-claw attack would also be another insurmountable difficulty for most characters, but there is an easy solution in the game by positioning the boat in the right way. 2 Claws, however, is completely manageable for standard damage characters.

Manageable is not synonymous with being easy. We can all manage the fight against Ancient Fuelweaver, but that doesn't mean it's easy. It requires training and many players go for easier solutions. They do this on any giant, in fact.

Exactly because of the difficulty of hitting the specific pixel that neutralizes regeneration that people use bees. The Weather Pain item also performs this function. In fact, this last item mentioned also interrupts the healing of AF, which is nothing new to anyone.

In the video I show that it is possible to beat him without Weather Pain. This is great for anyone looking to defeat the Celestial Champion before the first winter ends.

It is worth noting that even if Klei makes any type of change to CK, almost all players who use bees or ice flingomatic will continue to do so. It's the lazy path or rather the comfort zone. They will only change if Klei prevents the use of these techniques.

I see what you mean, but your original post is you saying the crab king is well designed and well crafted, and not about this.

[Cruvimaster]

12 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I see what you mean, but your original post is you saying the crab king is well designed and well crafted, and not about this.

The solution to their mechanics is at the AF level. So for me both are good jobs.

[Guille6785]

8 hours ago, KvltBear said:

Even if you're speedrunning surely it's easier to get some bees than weather pains and blue gems and waste hours mastering this timing pattern?

The current fastest speedrun strategy for Pearled CK is wolfgang with shadow affinity with a ham bat, 3 grass rafts and literally nothing else

[hoxi]

13 hours ago, Reecitz said:

@hoxi Have you thought about releasing a mod that's simply allows you to reconfigure the various numbers of Crab King based on what you've done to playtest it yourself? You could even call it "True Customizable Boss" or something. 

Well, what I did was tweak some specific values + implement some functionality to attach the claws to the boat (similar code to what Ocean Horrors do, down to using the pivot entity they use with a slight modification, hence why it's hacky), and not fully stop it. Not really something customizable in-game.

The mods I make right now are for myself and some friends, not intended for public releases, as I'm not sure what's the norm for DST mods to try and keep compatibility, but I'll consider doing it.

Some of these do more than what their name suggests or don't explain enough (descriptions explain things more), but that's part of why they're private. It's mainly stuff that I've reported to Klei, or that I've seen reported, stuff that it feels like an oversight that they don't work a certain way (i.e. no pirate raids during winter because monkeys stay inside their huts, making it a safer ocean season), or stuff that's outright frustrating and not fun, like Crab King's fight, or my friends from far away taking damage a lot of the time due to latency (since it's possible to make the game client authoritative damage, to toggle it, or disallow it for certain people like non-friends and so, in case you don't want that in public lobbies).

[Cruvimaster]

For everyone who can somehow enjoy the tutorial, I leave the last video with the game's default character (1x) - Wilson.

And don't worry about CK getting two cures after unfreezing. It's normal.

Remembering that it is not the weapon with the best damage, so it is perfectly possible to do it in less time.

Thanks Klei again.

 

Edited February 18 by Cruvimaster

[Well-met]

its very hard to watch a video that stutters and buffers every 2 second

[Cruvimaster]

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

its very hard to watch a video that stutters and buffers every 2 second

All very well. Look for other content on the Forum so that it does not harm your mental health.

[mykenception]

On 2/17/2024 at 1:20 AM, Fufuji said:

kelp-uprootter blueprint

CK doesn't even drop mats for the thing, 

and you expect people to really go out of their way to make it

it's pretty munch "zero rewards", at least the shadow pieces drop a night armor and a dark sword which you can use immediately 

16 hours ago, Bird Up said:

best strategy is to put 40 killer bees in a chest, then let crab king sink the boat, destroying the chest and unleashing the bees, then just sail in circles around crab king until it dies.

we can optimize that even more

place the bees on a backpack on a grass boat, light up the back pack with a torch and paddle away to a safe distance to keep dodging the geysers

 

Edited February 19 by mykenception

[ALCRD]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

For everyone who can somehow enjoy the tutorial, I leave the last video with the game's default character (1x) - Wilson.

And don't worry about CK getting two cures after unfreezing. It's normal.

Remembering that it is not the weapon with the best damage, so it is perfectly possible to do it in less time.

Thanks Klei again.

 

 

It somehow feels like i would need about 10~ rollbacks before i would get this right

BTW why do you keep rapidly unequipping and equipping your Winter Hat for?

Edited February 19 by ALCRD

[Dextops]

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

BTW why do you keep rapidly unequipping and equipping your Winter Hat for?

animation cancelling i assume

or cause it looks funny.

[Ryusuta]

2 hours ago, ALCRD said:

BTW why do you keep rapidly unequipping and equipping your Winter Hat for

Animation cancelling. It's an exploit used to attack faster. It's a favorite of people that use beefalo for absolutely everything since it negates one of their few downsides and makes them even more broken than they already are.

Anyway, the full guide on it can be found here:

 

Edited February 19 by Ryusuta

[Popian]

2 hours ago, mykenception said:

we can optimize that even more

place the bees on a backpack on a grass boat, light up the back pack with a torch and paddle away to a safe distance to keep dodging the geysers

7 boards upfront, 5 of which you get back vs. 12 grass and 6 twigs that turn to ash?

There's also unequipping the backpack while jumping from one boat to another so it could be reduced to 1 board, 4 grass, and 4 twigs.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Ryusuta said:

Animation cancelling. It's an exploit used to attack faster

it was explicitly stated to be an intended mechanic

[Antynomity]

The Best fight in the game yet.

[_zwb]

2 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

it was explicitly stated to be an intended mechanic

Did they really state that?

[Antynomity]

Reading this entire thread makes me want to... Gauge my eyes out, this is a troll post, and if it's not, holey moley....