Why I think boss fights are “Bad”

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

here just watch the end of my fight-

Okay idk who else watched this but a few things come to mind.

1) I considered it might not be spawning more spikes, but just being less predictable to dodge b/c of aiming and that still affirms my point.  This makes the boss already more difficult for multiple people to tackle together, so it already sorta scales by player count b/c it's attacks are aoe.  Unlike Dfly who is single target only, aoe attacks naturally scale the boss up against multiple players.  Stop using Bernie.  It is not helping you.

2) Other people may not realize this but one of the major handicaps of console iirc was the inability to zoom in and out.  The default zoom is like 80%, and it really needs to be 100% for this fight.  The zoom definitely makes the fight harder b/c the obstructed view of the lower half of his arena is greater with less zoom.  You are definitely suffering from that playing on console.

3) The main tactic you want to use in this fight is to play on his sides.  Rotate the screen as you rotate around so that you're always in the top side area.  Going behind him, or blow him means you cannot see where the spikes are coming up to dodge properly.  Even though you lack zoom making this area smaller, I notice in your video that you're not rotating to keep your character in this spot.  Its something to practice about the fight.

4) Don't be afraid of his healing.  He doesn't heal that much.  I wouldn't say antlion is the easiest boss in the game, he hits hard and his attacks can trap you, its almost forced hits sometimes.  BUT I know that when he ramps up his attack speed you can focus on dodging and wait for him to go for a reset.  He has to stop attacking to heal, and him getting 1-2 heals is not that bad.  When he stops attacking it gives you a little bit of time to re-position and get back in for damage.

32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Or maybe.. you’re too skilled at it?

I mean, imaging getting good at a game you've played for a long time...  then imagine someone coming in and telling you that you're BAD for getting good, and the game is actually BAD b/c even though you got good, how you got good was wrong b/c it wasn't how they WANTED to get good.  And when you tell them how to handle a situation instead of taking your advice they say the developers should change the game so that you're actually BAD and all of your experience and understanding is voided b/c now the "challenge" is that your base gets randomly destroyed and things spawn in random places regardless of their logical biomes...

I mean fr you are always hitting the forums with this conflicted message of things should be harder, and things should be easier, at the same time...  Like which is it?

Do you want the game to be hard?  Great, b/c these bosses are hard.  It takes a lot of practice to take out dfly even using a wall.  It takes a lot of effort to put together bunny hutches around bqueen enough to take her out.  As you get better you can fight the bosses more head on with your improved skill and understanding of the game.  You can pick different characters to change their difficulty too.  There is a good variety from easy to hard bosses in the game, and now we're getting more variety by having bosses that are more the combat-dream where you have to dodge their attacks and play the QTE to get a stun and such.

Or do you want the game to be easy?  b/c I don't see how you can hold both of these positions.  You want what?  Your base to be randomly destroyed and bosses to spawn on top of your face BUT you don't want them to be more then a 30 second hassle that can be handled with any gear on hand and zero prep time..?

idk thing is it would be unfair to spawn a boss like bqueen, afw, toad, or crab king on your face b/c they require a lot of prep.  That prep is good, its part of the fun of the game.  You find out what you need and you go about getting it.  You overprepare as you learn the fight, and gradually need less and less prep as you get good at it.  imo its a very satisfying game loop, and explains why DST has been running strong for 10 years.  Sure its not a mass seller like terraria, but every game doesn't have to be.  The niche DST hits is very good.

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You'll only ever fight this particular boss- If you enjoy the gameplay mechanics of the actual boss fight..

no, you'll most likely kill it because it takes much less time than getting the thing that allows you to get it's loot without fighting    

Edited January 12 by grm9

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no, you'll most likely kill it because it takes much less time than getting the thing that gives you it's loot  

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion, the Beach Toy is almost always pulled up within the first 2-3 usages of fishing in the Oasis, and besides that- You’ll still need to fish to get the desert goggles anyway.

Edited January 12 by Mike23Ua

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion, the Beach Toy is almost always pulled up within the first 2-3 usages of fishing in the Oasis

unless they increased the chance since last time i tried getting it it's much rarer than that and you got lucky

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You’ll still need to fish to get the desert goggles anyway

astroggles or beefalo

Edited January 12 by grm9

[Uedo]

Way to run with a narrative, I was clear in what I said and i'm entitled to my concerns. You can misattribute my intentions if you like but it won't effect whether i'm right or not - and i'm confident in what I said. 

I mean this is only the thousand-th instance of this really really boring loop that we keep finding outselves in, you'll have these conversations again in a month or so when Mike  learns about a long-standing feature that he will insist is inexplicably designed for some arbitrary reason because of his subjective experience, it's no skin off my nose. :P 

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

It is insulting and paranoid to say one person is so ignorant that Klei might pity them with a update(s). I know how tempting it is to eradicate a contrasting/wrong opinion about something I like, but you have to let people be different/wrong. That's how I have ended up in the wrong before.

I'd suggest re-reading it after you've shaved off of 90% of your own perceptions, I literally don't know how I could have rephrased that to be clearer. It's not that deep. (I defo said naive, but like I understand it's not written down and easily accessible, so don't worry about it >.>)

59 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Fr sounds very patronizing. Idk if that's the right word.

It's condescending not patronising if anything, but it's not that either, don't be sore :P

Edited January 12 by Uedo

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Okay idk who else watched this but a few things come to mind.

2) Other people may not realize this but one of the major handicaps of console iirc was the inability to zoom in and out.  The default zoom is like 80%, and it really needs to be 100% for this fight.  The zoom definitely makes the fight harder b/c the obstructed view of the lower half of his arena is greater with less zoom.  You are definitely suffering from that playing on console.

3) The main tactic you want to use in this fight is to play on his sides.  Rotate the screen as you rotate around so that you're always in the top side area.  Going behind him, or blow him means you cannot see where the spikes are coming up to dodge properly.  Even though you lack zoom making this area smaller, I notice in your video that you're not rotating to keep your character in this spot.  Its something to practice about the fight.

The inability to zoom in and out gets on my nerves so much, like for real lmao.. so thank you for pointing that out (even DS & Shipwrecked Mobile have pinch zooming in & out!)

as far as screen rotation goes I NEVER use this feature while playing the game, unless I’m trying to place base structures down.. especially not during combat or map exploration, am I supposed to?? For me rotating the map just gets me all disoriented & confused, so I generally try NOT to accidentally rotate it by bumping LB/RB.

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion, the Beach Toy is almost always pulled up within the first 2-3 usages of fishing in the Oasis, and besides that- You’ll still need to fish to get the desert goggles anyway.

The reason to fight AntLion is to halt its negative seasonal effects.  Sure you can give it toys, but you have to keep giving it toys.  That's a lot of fishing.

In order to get the toy you have to get the desert goggles blueprint first.  Its very rare for them to come out of order.  When I get the goggles, I go fight AntLion and be done with him.  No returning to give him more gifts, no fishing for gifts or a bucket.  Just kill him and hit up the caves for AFW.

In repeat summers I often don't kill him b/c the stone generation in caves isn't that bad really - although with the new quakeX2 his stones aren't as needed.

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

The inability to zoom in and out gets on my nerves so much, like for real lmao.. so thank you for pointing that out (even DS & Shipwrecked Mobile have pinch zooming in & out!)

as far as screen rotation goes I NEVER use this feature while playing the game, unless I’m trying to place base structures down.. especially not during combat or map exploration, am I supposed to?? For me rotating the map just gets me all disoriented & confused, so I generally try NOT to accidentally rotate it by bumping LB/RB.

Eh, practice.  Its very useful to rotate the map - and I think AntLion is a pretty self evident example of why.

[Popian]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I want my friends to also be able to enjoy it,

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

shouldn’t this content be accessible to and enjoyable in some form or another for the less skilled or casual players?

How is it not accessible if they can do it the way you did? It may be harder to set up without PC console commands, but you can set a world to short summer and only summer and go for it.

And you aren't always meant to gather everyone for bosses, maybe you're deep in caves or busy with something so you sit that one out and let someone else take the task of dealing with Antlion.

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

Stop using Bernie.  It is not helping you.

It's funny that the video might have been another failed attempt if Bernie hadn't dealt the killing blow. Extra damage is nice if you can work with it, but it might ask for a different approach to get more space to work between the spikes.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

unless they increased the chance since last time i tried getting it it's much rarer than that and you got lucky

astroggles or beefalo

I’m not sure if you’ve played since the Cult of the Lamb Crossover but during that update they massively increased the odds of how often you can fish up Desert Goggles and the Beach Toy.

Astrogoggles are locked behind Moonstorms? Which require killing CrabKing to Activate.. (among some other equally annoying tasks) it’s wayyy easier to just get a single fishing rod and fish in the Oasis in the Summer, CoTL update made it so that if you had yet to obtain the desert goggle blueprint it had massively increased odds, and once you DO obtain the head gear BP, Additional fishing attempts increase the odds of the Beach Toy.

Which brings me back to the point of my topic: Fighting the Antlion is now something that is actually 100% Optional, and you can take a passive route to obtain her loot (not certain on the statue though..) So if all her rewards are optional- And the Beach Toys give massively increased protection against her Sinkhole rage: the only thing left is engaging in this fight if you actually LIKE the mechanics of doing the fight itself..

And I personally DO enjoy the mechanics of this particular fight.. but I feel like there are a few things that could be done to make it enjoyable for more players.

The first thing that comes to mind is having a better field of Vision, perhaps a top down perspective?? Because I’d prefer NOT to be rotating my map around causing myself Motionsickness.

(Might I Suggest a Top Down perspective for this fight?)

The Second thing that would help is if players had maybe half a second more reaction time to dodge her spikes, Between CrabKing & Antlion- CK gives you ample enough time to dodge his Geysers while Antlion does not.

You can also completely forget about using a Walking Cane/Weapon swap combo for this fight on An Xbox controller, so having a tad bit more time to react would tremendously help in that regard.

I equally feel that if players can choose toggle options for things like 40% reduced damage taken, default damage taken or 40% more damage taken- That it wouldn’t hurt anyone in the slightest bit to give bosses Easy/Normal/Hard behavior options.

[grm9]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

it’s wayyy easier to just get a single fishing rod and fish in the Oasis in the Summer

astroggles are a byproduct of doing CC questline, so you'll have them without spending any additional time if you activate moonstorms before summer ends 

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m not sure if you’ve played since the Cult of the Lamb Crossover

i did, but i didn't fish in oasis since probably a few years ago

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And the Beach Toys give massively increased protection against her Sinkhole rage

you still need to go to antlion to give them to it since there's a limit for how many days until the next sinkhole creation which is shorter than summer, so it's better to kill it to also get free desert stones and meat 

[mykenception]

3 hours ago, Yuuko said:

The reason to fight AntLion is to halt its negative seasonal effects.  Sure you can give it toys, but you have to keep giving it toys.  That's a lot of fishing.

I just stuff her with eggs. We're always rich in food anyway and if I'm feeling like I want to have new glass castles in my base then its antlion whammy time

[Spino43]

5 hours ago, Popian said:

Antlion is not trivial, especially as a first encounter. There's a lot of variance to how the spikes spawn and what kind of spikes you get so worst case you may get a wall of spikes in the direction you are moving (that you need to navigate away from Antlion to avoid) and all big spikes that do 200 (40 damage taken with 80% armor (opposed to 30 for med and 20 for small)) damage each.

It's also worse with a x1- damage character as the attacks get progressively faster the longer you draw the battle out, which makes tanking a lot less viable. Other things like low visibility, the attack button targeting spikes instead of Antlion, getting trapped (which can happen in just 2 attacks) and the nerves with running out of armor and hp may also get in the way, so it'd be best to find safer things to use like Night Armors and Flower Salads when not as comfortable with the fight.

I would have considered this if mike is a new player. He is not. He has played the game for years now, and he did fight dfly (even if his tactic is very awful). I am not treating him like a newbie/inexperienced player, I am treating him like a veteran player who is way too cocky, stubborn and arrogant to accept learning to defeat a rather simple and easy boss.

Id anything he deliberately did poor attempts at antlion to make the point of dst bosses being bad. Which is funny since there are bosses like toad/af that can prove his point better than a seasonal boss.

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

(Might I Suggest a Top Down perspective for this fight?)

 

DST sprits are all at the same angle.  There is no "top down perspective" without literally creating every asset in the game all over again from that perspective.  These aren't 3d objects that can just be rotated.

Sucks you think rotating the screen is going to cause you to be sick, that's totally your problem though.  I know other people who have resisted and refused to rotate their screens, but tbh that is the mechanic the game gives you for these situations.

Tough luck

[Mike23Ua]

17 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

DST sprits are all at the same angle.  There is no "top down perspective" without literally creating every asset in the game all over again from that perspective.  These aren't 3d objects that can just be rotated.

Sucks you think rotating the screen is going to cause you to be sick, that's totally your problem though.  I know other people who have resisted and refused to rotate their screens, but tbh that is the mechanic the game gives you for these situations.

Tough luck

I mean even without the Top Down View there are things Klei could do to make it better, such as as you had said being able to zoom further outward, OR- Make the sand castles see through..

Kleis made things see thru before so I don’t see why the technology couldn’t exist here, rotating the camera around and around in circles just shouldn’t be required.

But that’s only assuming that the purpose of the sand castles is to box players in with, or away from Antlion..

If their design intention was ALSO to obscure vision so you need to flip the cameras around then I suppose they serve their intended purpose, but if not- There’s room for improvements.

And considering that Klei added settings and lessened the effects of screen flashing, I’d only assume they’d want to limit uncomfortable effects such as Motionsickness- See thru castles would fix this.. I think without having to change too much?

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean even without the Top Down View there are things Klei could do to make it better, such as as you had said being able to zoom further outward, OR- Make the sand castles see through..

Kleis made things see thru before so I don’t see why the technology couldn’t exist here, rotating the camera around and around in circles just shouldn’t be required.

But that’s only assuming that the purpose of the sand castles is to box players in with, or away from Antlion..

If their design intention was ALSO to obscure vision so you need to flip the cameras around then I suppose they serve their intended purpose, but if not- There’s room for improvements.

And considering that Klei added settings and lessened the effects of screen flashing, I’d only assume they’d want to limit uncomfortable effects such as Motionsickness- See thru castles would fix this.. I think without having to change too much?

They don't need to be see through, part of this fight is maximizing visibility.  Practice rotating your screen.  Talk to your doctor about motion sickness medication if its really a problem.

Don't get me wrong - zooming out helps, but its not that big of a deal.  Not nearly as much as rotating your screen, b/c no matter how much you zoom out once that area is full of spikes you gotta move and rotating the screen with you.

And put bernie away.

[prettynuggets]

am i the only one who doesnt zoom out when killing ant lion cus i need to see that spikes emerging bellow me so i know where to move?

thats true rotating your view is super important and u wont really need to rotate everytime just after u dodge just click rotate once or twice so u have clear view to the area u will be going.
so i think better try it before throwing so much excuses. :c

[mykenception]

2 hours ago, prettynuggets said:

am i the only one who doesnt zoom out when killing ant lion cus i need to see that spikes emerging bellow me so i know where to move?

thats true rotating your view is super important and u wont really need to rotate everytime just after u dodge just click rotate once or twice so u have clear view to the area u will be going.
so i think better try it before throwing so much excuses. :c

same, I mean we don't really need to zoom out much in the fight since were caged in anyways.

and antlion gradually increases the spikes' frequency as her health lowers, so paying attention while keeping aggression is greatly rewarded

[Evelo]

Seeing this slander about the best girl boss Antlion is really angering me. She is by far the best designed boss in terms of global presence threat and mechanically to fight or satiate. (Granted this is my opinion, you are allowed to disagree on me thinking she is the "best" but to say she isn't a well designed boss I think is folly, anyway...)

I do not understand the struggle between PC and Console for this particular fight. if I can beat the boss with 1 hand using WASD, Q/E and F. then you can be it using a controller. In fact I never use the mouse for anything in DST on PC other than placing down structures. It is one of the reasons why I love it. It fits my disability very very comfortably. (Well besides AFW is a hassle but I beat him once and probably never doing it again god that was hell)

Keep practicing and choose your battles on which bosses are "bad", because I agreed with you early on a lot of the boss fights, primarily the extremely tanky ones or ones that have minimal mechanics (Dfly, Phase 1 and 2 CC, Toadstool, Bee Queen, Crab King) but Antlion? No. She is amazing for Solo and Multiplayer (sans the lag but that's DST in a nutshell) and I much prefer her as the Dfly replacement to Seasonal Bosses. Klei did an amazing job with her.

[somethin]

All I get from this thread boils down to skill issue honestly.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Seeing this slander about the best girl boss Antlion is really angering me. She is by far the best designed boss in terms of global presence threat and mechanically to fight or satiate. (Granted this is my opinion, you are allowed to disagree on me thinking she is the "best" but to say she isn't a well designed boss I think is folly, anyway...)

I do not understand the struggle between PC and Console for this particular fight. if I can beat the boss with 1 hand using WASD, Q/E and F. then you can be it using a controller. In fact I never use the mouse for anything in DST on PC other than placing down structures. It is one of the reasons why I love it. It fits my disability very very comfortably. (Well besides AFW is a hassle but I beat him once and probably never doing it again god that was hell)

Keep practicing and choose your battles on which bosses are "bad", because I agreed with you early on a lot of the boss fights, primarily the extremely tanky ones or ones that have minimal mechanics (Dfly, Phase 1 and 2 CC, Toadstool, Bee Queen, Crab King) but Antlion? No. She is amazing for Solo and Multiplayer (sans the lag but that's DST in a nutshell) and I much prefer her as the Dfly replacement to Seasonal Bosses. Klei did an amazing job with her.

You only feel like Antlion is an amazing boss because you enjoy her unique mechanics, that are exclusive to this fight.. and that isn’t how I choose to see things.

From MY Perspective both the Sand Castles & the Sand Spikes could’ve went a really long way in making a unique Desert Biome, perhaps.. much like the Tentacle Maze that was found in Solo DS’s Adventures Mode, instead- What we have are mechanics that are exclusive to a stationary boss fight.

That doesn’t mean that the boss fight itself is bad, (I actually enjoyed the fight with Antlion) But it DOES mean that we’re less likely to get an Egyptian Themed Sand biome where instead of being tied exclusively to fighting this boss, existed throughout the biome itself.

If I were any good at drawing I’d make a few images showcasing what I mean. But I’m not so someone with some good art or mod making skills would have to put a concept like that together for you.

But basically the TL:DR- Is that the mechanics found exclusively within boss fights could make just exploring the games biomes feel new and refreshing.

If I were to design an Egyptian biome (using only content that exists in the game) I’d have sand castles, sand spikes and mossling Tornado spin winds occupying the biome.

I didn’t choose Antlion as my point of discussion because she’s a “bad” boss, I’m using her as my point of discussion Because the loot you obtain from fighting her can be obtained completely passively, so that only leaves actually enjoying the mechanics of the fight itself as a reason to fight her, but.. it’s those very same mechanics of her fight that could’ve been used in other areas- which makes her existing at all bad, because her existing limits biome complexity and creativity in areas of the game outside of those Boss Battles.

Edited January 13 by Mike23Ua

[Uedo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

You only feel like Antlion is an amazing boss because you enjoy her unique mechanics, that are exclusive to this fight.. and that isn’t how I choose to see things.

From MY Perspective both the Sand Castles & the Sand Spikes could’ve went a really long way in making a unique Desert Biome, perhaps.. much like the Tentacle Maze that was found in Solo DS’s Adventures Mode, instead- What we have are mechanics that are exclusive to a stationary boss fight.

That doesn’t mean that the boss fight itself is bad, (I actually enjoyed the fight with Antlion) But it DOES mean that we’re less likely to get an Egyptian Themed Sand biome where instead of being tied exclusively to fighting this boss, existed throughout the biome itself.

If I were any good at drawing I’d make a few images showcasing what I mean. But I’m not so someone with some good art or mod making skills would have to put a concept like that together for you.

But basically the TL:DR- Is that the mechanics found exclusively within boss fights could make just exploring the games biomes feel new and refreshing.

If I were to design an Egyptian biome (using only content that exists in the game) I’d have sand castles, sand spikes and mossling Tornado spin winds occupying the biome.

I didn’t choose Antlion as my point of discussion because she’s a “bad” boss, I’m using her as my point of discussion Because the loot you obtain from fighting her can be obtained completely passively, so that only leaves actually enjoying the mechanics of the fight itself as a reason to fight her, but.. it’s those very same mechanics of her fight that could’ve been used in other areas- which makes her existing at all bad, because her existing limits biome complexity and creativity in areas of the game outside of those Boss Battles.

The guy was clear in what he said Mike... I think you need to go back under the bridge and we need to be more careful, no matter how tempting, in making sure we don't feed you.

I'm going back to my shadow hand emotes! :P

[Spino43]

21 minutes ago, Uedo said:

The guy was clear in what he said Mike... I think you need to go back under the bridge and we need to be more careful, no matter how tempting, in making sure we don't feed you.

I'm going back to my shadow hand emotes! :P

Telling someone with an ego higher than mount everest to do that? Good luck.

[cropo]

Antlion is awesome. Antlion isn't overpowered, but even if it was it's totally fair because you can bribe it for its drops instead of fighting it.

 

It introduces a manageable threat that can be used to your advantage for mass-producing rocks in the caves, you have the option to kill it to stop earthquakes for the entire season, and it tries to threaten you without spawning and rushing your base(not that that is a bad thing, but Antlion is unique in how it threatens you). Antlion also has a very reasonable health pool, it's higher than solo DS bosses but isn't nearly on the level of the other HP sponges.

 

It may not be very in-depth but Antlion gives you a lot of options in how to deal with it, including non-combat solutions. It's drops aren't ''soft mandatory'' (yes, for the love of god I know you can play without bundling wrap) but are very nice to have for multiplayer and base-builders.

 

Antlion is a really good example of what bosses could be, a threat without directly engaging you in combat. I'd honestly like a boss like Antlion for every season, one that brings the blizzards(like uncomp mod) unless you deal with it, etc. Or for spring heavy winds that scatter dropped items around like Shipwreckeds winds, destroying(read:Harvesting without your interaction) crops and grass and stuff. Would be pretty neat.

Edited January 13 by cropo

[arubaro]

The topic went from complaining about BQ to complaining about a short and totally balanced fight for half player... 2 pages more and we will be reading complains about butterflies having too much health

[Gotheran]

On 1/12/2024 at 4:49 AM, cropo said:

What's with the focus on CC? CC is a rather large exception, he doesn't despawn and any damage you do is permanent as far as I'm aware. It's not like Fuelweaver who can undo all of your progress if he happens to get a few good munches in, he doesn't spawn hella minions except the shards if you consider that, which he himself can destroy(unlike toadstool) and despawn on their own. His first 2 phases have a great moveset and his third phase is a bit hard to get down but isn't a serious problem. CC is a great boss.

 

He also permits the best armor in the game(night armor).

Pretty sure it does infact heal as I started phase 3 and got some decent damage in but when i returned after resing at base it had full health. Phase 2 shreds through any armor let alone Night Armor, its the trade off for 90% DR that night armor is made of rice paper, but even log suits or football helmets go to pieces pretty quickly, not that you'd likely survive getting hit by even the last couple of seconds of his spin attack which isn't as consistent to dodge away from as everyone claims as I got caught by it a number of times, even when disengaging sooner than I thought I should and using a walking cane. The fact that there aren't differing damage values for different attacks on this boss let alone any creature, the spin has plenty of hits that can land that dropping the damage for that specific attack isn't unreasonable, 100 damage a hit is kind of excessive for a multi-hit attack, even with good armor that'll leave a dent in the players health.

Phase 3 mainly needs to have the spam of moonglass items removed or highly limited because that phase gave me the most trouble because it was impossible to even see what was happening because all the broken enlightenment traps left so much moonglass on the floor my framerate was very bad. DST doesn't have great performance on a good day let alone for a boss spamming individual items on the floor.

Edited January 13 by Gotheran
correcting accidental swear