Almost a thousand days until the second Krampus Sack. Does not make sense.

[Cruvimaster]

I only got the second Krampus Sack on the day of the video (1214) and that’s not reasonable.

Imagine a world with 6 players and you can only have the item for a thousand days.

Upon defeating Klaus, we should have at least a 50% chance of getting the item.

We shouldn’t be slaves to a Wickerbottom farm or have to use a mod to get the Krampus Sack.

[prettynuggets]

it took me more than 100 days of storm activated gloomer kill to get my first sack. not one day gloomer stay alive during storm where finally i got one. its pretty satisfying i cant lie. 

[Bird Up]

I like that its so rare. It's not super necesarry, but is always available to pop up because that 1%. It's the best feeling to actually find one. The backpack is already the most popular body slot, no one would use anything else if krampus sack were easy to get.

[xhyom]

I Wouldn't even mind if the Krampus Sack wasn't that much better than a normal backpack/piggyback if that meant it would be a more common item we could rely on as a possible upgrade, an item we could feel like we would eventually get one, and not just a hyper luxury you will only see on servers with an absurd number of days in a way it's better to not even consider it being a possibility. Because that damn sack is pretty uncommon to get even in those servers with high investment setups at the moon with catapults and bookcases (Which makes it character locked...)

[Cruvimaster]

DTS has changed and we cannot stay stuck in the past. We have OP weapons and they can be repaired.

All characters are becoming more broken with the reworks + skill trees. Wickerbotton farm exists.

There is no point in an item being rare to the point that no one (together) can obtain it without farming (Wicker) or mods (loots +).

[Retepeter]

I think it would be reasonable to tear a piece of Klaus's sack every time you open it and eventually be able to craft the krampis ack 

(I'm thinking maybe 3 or 5 pieces/ 1 craft would be fair since people can use green amus if they really want a sack. and maybe give these pieces some other use so if someone does have too many sacks they can reuse the pieces

This would also encourage rekilling klaus if you already don't need any of his drops since from experience it doesnt feel very good to kill him ever winter (or every season during winters feast) only to be ""rewarded"" with my 23th bearger fur, tallbird egg and down feather.

3 minutes ago, xhyom said:

I Wouldn't even mind if the Krampus Sack wasn't that much better than a normal backpack/piggyback if that meant it would be a more common item we could rely on as a possible upgrade, an item we could feel like we would eventually get one, and not just a hyper luxury you will only see on servers with an absurd number of days in a way it's better to not even consider it being a possibility. Because that damn sack is pretty uncommon to get even in those servers with high investment setups at the moon with catapults and bookcases (Which makes it character locked...)

I think adding some upgrade between the backpack and the sack would fix this, or some way to remove the piggyback's downside because it just doesn't feel right to punish players that are in the lategame as much as it did to punish them when they're in the earlygame

[grm9]

11 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

bearger fur, tallbird egg and down feather

they aren't useful even during first winter aside from some people making an insulated pack out of the bearger fur so that's a problem with the loot simply not being worth it at all sometimes 

just make it so killing a 100th krampus or a 10th klaus gives a guaranteed krampus sack if you didn't get one before

[Retepeter]

Just now, grm9 said:

they aren't useful even during first autumn aside from some people making an insulated pack out of the bearger fur so that's a problem with the loot simply not being worth it at all sometimes 

just make it so killing a 100th krampus or a 10th klaus gives a guaranteed krampus sack if you didn't get one before

eh sometimes the drops can be useful in the first winter, especially blueprints but in the lategame I'm finding myself not even take the bundles home just unbundle at the fight arena and take home the bq crowns and royal jelly because shroom skins and dfly scales are dupable and the rest of the drops are simply useless unless you sail for some reason when boat bridges exist

[Captain_Rage]

The 10% drop chance feels kind of generous for convenience item that never perishes.

If you are that many players to begin with your total inventory is already inherently much bigger so logistics should not be a problem. The Krampus' Sack shines when you are playing alone and to need haul items from the Ruins and similar. If you are a bunch of players you can surely make good use of your combined inventories if you simply communicate.

[Yuuko]

I don't mind b/c the thing is 100% unnecessary.  They are very useful for doing BIG gather tasks, like clearing the whole ruins, or mining out multiple biomes, but for daily life they are highly overrated.  You get 1 chester and hutch which gives you ample extra space guaranteed, and even between 6 players clearing ruins one of these with a backpack will suffice to hold materials as you clear.

Beefs are pretty easy to domesticate, especially in long running worlds and they let you use piggy pack pretty easily if you need extra space.

I guess tl/dr is its supposed to be a very rare and high tier backpack not something like a regular boss loot you get every run.  Its something you're never owed, and if you feel it is necessary then I kinda oppose that view.  I think they are a "nice to have" yet entirely unneeded thing.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

You get 1 glommer which gives you ample extra space guaranteed

typo?

2 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

You get 1 hutch which gives you ample extra space guaranteed

don't monkeys steal from him while you're leaving the ruins?

[GimplyGoose]

If the Krampus sack were less rare or more easily obtainable, it would feel less good when you randomly get on as a drop. Also, even though Wickerbottom is the best character for farming naughtiness, there are other strategies to get the sack besides killing Klaus. I think it should stay as it is.

[goatt]

1200 days, winter feast, that's 60 kills. Let's say you did half of tha, which is 30 kills, which should give you at least 3 sacks. But you only got 2.

That's the evil of RNG.

RNG is not required to introduce randomness. But randomness introduced by RNG is frustrating.

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

You knew the chances, compared the pros and cons of trying and you farmed for it anyway.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Jakepeng99]

16 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I only got the second Krampus Sack on the day of the video (1214) and that’s not reasonable.

Imagine a world with 6 players and you can only have the item for a thousand days.

Upon defeating Klaus, we should have at least a 50% chance of getting the item.

We shouldn’t be slaves to a Wickerbottom farm or have to use a mod to get the Krampus Sack.

Enraged klaus should drop it guarinteed.

[-Variant]

Honestly I feel like a lot or rare items lose their charm when they're not... rare anymore.

I don't see Krampus sack as something you're even meant to seek, rather it be a fun surprise that you happen upon. Like a jackpot, but not one you're actively gambling for.
I'm okay with it being rare since it's entirely unneeded. It's nice to have but you can easily go without it!

[ECS.98]

The problem with Krampus sack is simply the fact it's purely RNG. RNG mechanics are not fun, and they're not balanced because it's all about getting lucky.

It took me 550 days to get a Krampus Sack in my long term world while killing Klaus every winter, but then i created a disposable world to rush Klaus in a winter start and got 2 Krampus sacks after killing him on day 9 (one from the Loot Stash and one from the Krampus that he spawned). Then i just deleted that world and the whole "luck" is gone. That honestly made me disappointed that i got a Krampus Sack instead of happy for it.

But at least, as Variant said, the Krampus Sack is easily something you can ignore, so i don't care if it's something i don't get often (even when i did get it, i only ever used it when i collected the wood i farmed with Bearger. After that i resumed my everyday activities with my Insulated Pack that i just find superior due to keeping my food fresh)

[goatt]

5 hours ago, -Variant said:

I'm okay with it being rare since it's entirely unneeded. It's nice to have but you can easily go without it!

From video game perspective, in my understanding, items are acquired at a certain cost defined by the game. That's why games feel fair. Usually the cost is a range due to the uncertain nature of RNG. But RNG can sometimes break the unspoken "certain cost" range and make the process feel unfair. In other words, sometimes, game treats you unfairly because of the nature of RNG.

I don't think the occurance is rare. It's not about the rarity of an item. It's about how super bad luck ruins a game experience.

I know people in the forum have said "but that's the beauty of RNG". No, they are wrong. What they meant was the beauty of Randomness, not RNG. They want unpredictability, not frustratingly unfair game play.

A true RNG is possible to never give you any Krampus sack until you delete the game.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, goatt said:

From video game perspective, in my understanding, items are acquired at a certain cost defined by the game. That's why games feel fair. Usually the cost is a range due to the uncertain nature of RNG. But RNG can sometimes break the unspoken "certain cost" range and make the process feel unfair. In other words, sometimes, game treats you unfairly because of the nature of RNG.

I don't think the occurance is rare. It's not about the rarity of an item. It's about how super bad luck ruins a game experience.

I know people in the forum have said "but that's the beauty of RNG". No, they are wrong. What they meant was the beauty of Randomness, not RNG. They want unpredictability, not frustratingly unfair game play.

A true RNG is possible to never give you any Krampus sack until you delete the game.

I mean, not wrong - but there is plenty of room for rng and we gotta consider what the ramifications are for bad luck.

Do you ever think "I didn't get a krampus sack, time to restart the world" ?

b/c that is the kinda luck that I wouldn't want in the game...

I don't think I've ever felt I needed a krampus sack to enjoy the game.  If I get it, great - but I don't think its a good activity to put much effort into.

[goatt]

2 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

Do you ever think "I didn't get a krampus sack, time to restart the world" ?

I didn't mean "restart" a world. I mean in your time of playing DST, a true RNG is possible to never give you any sacks across all the DST servers you played in thousands of hours.

 

3 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I mean, not wrong - but there is plenty of room for rng and we gotta consider what the ramifications are for bad luck.

The alternative to RNG is not "No Randomness". RNG is not necessary to introduce randomness. In many games where fairness highly valued and emphasized, alternatives that bring both fairness and randomness exist, as both them are usually highly valued.

In reference to what you said about bad luck, those other games still allow bad luck to exist and play a major role in the game experience, but didn't allow bad luck to ruin the game.

 

7 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

I don't think I've ever felt I needed a krampus sack to enjoy the game. 

If this line is a response to what I said, then it misses the point. Let's say spider silk has 25% drop chance, and it's still possible for the game to never give you a silk, technically, after thousands of hours of play time. This is an exaggeration in hope to make my point understood.

Video games are supposed to be fun. A good amount of frustrating is good because it could potentially introduce tremendous amount of dopamine. But too much frustration can easily ruin a game experience. In DST, it's not a stranger in my experience because of RNG.

I agree that a krampus sack is not required to enjoy the game, because the effort to get a sack is not trivia at all. But after I have spent 5 times as much as this tremendous non-trivia effort to pursue a sack, and I still don't get one, it won't be fun regardless of whether continuing or quitting the game.

[ECS.98]

6 minutes ago, goatt said:

If this line is a response to what I said, then it misses the point. Let's say spider silk has 25% drop chance, and it's still possible for the game to never give you a silk, technically, after thousands of hours of play time. This is an exaggeration in hope to make my point understood.

A more realistic example is Walrus Tusk. It's no secret that servers with a lot of players can have trouble with having enough Tusks available because Walking Canes are seen as a necessity by many players (and i can't disagree. It's not impossible to play without them but it is a big game changer), so much that many servers actually used to have a mod that forces the Triple Mactusk set piece to spawn, in order to have a reasonable amount of tusks for players.

And while the Tusk drop rate being a 50% chance usually makes it reasonable enough that it can fulfil player demands, i've had a server with 2 people where we got our first tusk on the third Winter. And that's while killing the single Mactusk in our world at every chance we had.

[Maxil20]

I never really had an issue with the krampus sack. If you are one of the people who want it pretty badly (like I am), going to day 100 and doing a quick wicker binge and/or forcing moonstorms to kill glommer every single day (bonus points if you kill the catcoons in the decid to perhaps get a few extra krampus spawns as well) will get you one at a pretty reasonable rate. Sure, I understand the former might not be everyone’s favorite thing, but why would you handicap yourself from the fastest option by a longshot if you are trying to specifically grind for a krampus sack?

[Spino43]

It's meant to be a luxury item, not something needed for survival. If I get it, beautiful, if not, piggyback will do just fine. The 10% speed penalty trade for 4 additional slots is such a small downside it's barely noticeable.

[-Variant]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

I don't think the occurance is rare. It's not about the rarity of an item. It's about how super bad luck ruins a game experience.

This is bit outside of definitive reach. This is more so how you personally view random elements. 
I am not tempted to throw out a run due to being unable to obtain a krampus sack, I don't think that sort of mindset would be healthy for how I play.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, goatt said:

If this line is a response to what I said, then it misses the point. Let's say spider silk has 25% drop chance, and it's still possible for the game to never give you a silk, technically, after thousands of hours of play time. This is an exaggeration in hope to make my point understood.

Video games are supposed to be fun. A good amount of frustrating is good because it could potentially introduce tremendous amount of dopamine. But too much frustration can easily ruin a game experience. In DST, it's not a stranger in my experience because of RNG.

I agree that a krampus sack is not required to enjoy the game, because the effort to get a sack is not trivia at all. But after I have spent 5 times as much as this tremendous non-trivia effort to pursue a sack, and I still don't get one, it won't be fun regardless of whether continuing or quitting the game.

While spider silk drops from spiders at 25% chance, there are ways to get spider silk without RNG by killing nests - which can be done at tier 3 / queen without reducing the total number of nests in the world.  Spider silk is a very important material used for a lot of core game experiences.

The krampus sack drops at a much lower rate - and there is no guaranteed way to get one - but it is not required for *ANY* core game experiences.  Nothing requires you use a krampus sack.  Its not even remotely required.

If you are playing to get a krampus sack then do like @Maxil20 says and force a moon storm or play Wicker until you get one, then switch off.  If its so important to you then you will do the effort of getting it - but tbh I think the effort to get it is not relative to its value because its not supposed to be something you always have or get.  In that regard I think the OP and you have missed the point.  You aren't "supposed" to get a krampus sack the way you're supposed to get a tusk, mush light blueprint, or the celestial orb.

If you wanna talk about how bad luck with RNG makes those into a bad experience go for it - but I think as it relates to krampus sack - deal with it.  Its a 1% I mean come on lol  Anyone who thinks they need this is setting unrealistic expectations, and tbh I think is highly overvaluing a few extra inventory slots.  ppl already overvalue inventory space talking about how they *can't* go without a backpack.  I challenge this - drop your grass and twigs and flint.  Drop the things you don't actually need.  I rarely even play with a back pack these days and I have no struggles with main content arc.  The only times I need one is when I'm doing something like listed above - clearing a whole forest, or stone biome of resources, or clearing ruins.  These are the only times I bother using a back pack, let alone a krampus sack lol