Almost a thousand days until the second Krampus Sack. Does not make sense.

[Cheggf]

The point of the item is a happy surprise. It's not meant to be something everyone has. 

[HowlVoid]

Piggyback is a good alternative. If the krampus sac was super common the piggy sac would be less useful. 

[goatt]

5 hours ago, -Variant said:

This is bit outside of definitive reach. This is more so how you personally view random elements.

This is all about math, right? I'm putting my own experience here just to show that I'm personally invested and genuinely think the math behind RNG shows its downside. I'm not trying to prove something with my opinion. But I don't think what I think matters. Math is quite objective self-evident.

5 hours ago, -Variant said:

I don't think that sort of mindset would be healthy for how I play.

I don't think that's healthy either. I try not to think that way. And it's not really my fault, because I was only made to feel bitter. And that's why I'm here to advocate for something better.

 

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

and there is no guaranteed way to get one - but it is not required for *ANY* core game experiences...  In that regard I think the OP and you have missed the point.

That misses the point. The point is that I should get reward for my fair amount of effort. And the video game should endorse it. I agree with everything you said in a different context. But that context has nothing to do with my point. Let me say it again for the record, I agree that sack is not required for *ANY* core game experience. But it's irrelevant because we are talking about the feeling of fairness regarding RNG.

 

5 hours ago, Yuuko said:

If you wanna talk about how bad luck with RNG makes those into a bad experience go for it - but I think as it relates to krampus sack - deal with it.  Its a 1% I mean come on lol  Anyone who thinks they need this is setting unrealistic expectations, and tbh I think is highly overvaluing a few extra inventory slots.

I've always successfully got my sack and extra sacks for my friends when I try. I'm a pro and I've done it countless times. That's why I have stories to prove how bad bad luck can be. 1% is not bad, honestly. A fair 1% drop rate takes only like 2 to 3 days of work. But bad luck 1%, as I have encountered, can be 20 to 30 days of work. I essentially got it for 0.1% drop rate.

You are talking about sacks being optional and players shouldn't get their hopes high or have unrealistic expectations. But people who got into the Krampus game already knew that. They already have the right mindset before going in. They spend 10x the required effort and determination, and your response is that they shouldn't set unrealistic expectation? It feels quite apathetic.

[Yuuko]

46 minutes ago, goatt said:

That misses the point. The point is that I should get reward for my fair amount of effort. And the video game should endorse it. I agree with everything you said in a different context. But that context has nothing to do with my point. Let me say it again for the record, I agree that sack is not required for *ANY* core game experience. But it's irrelevant because we are talking about the feeling of fairness regarding RNG.

The krampus sack is not a reward.  Killing Klaus you are rewarded with presents - including a CHANCE at a krampus sack, but no more guaranteed then getting a lazy explorer from AG, or getting good wormholes in the world.  Krampus is not a creature you are rewarded for fighting, as it is already a punishment for generating naughty.  The fact that you purposefully gain nautiness to get a krampus sack is your own choice, might as well complain at how hard enraged Klaus is...

And yeah - you have unrealistic expectations.  You are not owed a sack, and have no rights to one.  Your effort in farming krampus is an uphill battle from the start and you admit you know it, so accept the RNG nature of it and move on.  The effort you go through to summon and kill krampus is in no way supposed to be proportional to the "reward."  If you get a krampus sack, then congrats !  If not, make a piggy pack and learn to manage your inventory better.

[Lvb]

10% is already generous. You want a guarantee to win the lottery because you feel you deserve it.

If everyone is rich, then we would all be equally poor.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, Lvb said:

You want a guarantee to win the lottery because you feel you deserve it

mind reading isn't a thing, telling people what you think they actually think that you think they don't know they think sounds stupid   

2 hours ago, Lvb said:

If everyone is rich, then we would all be equally poor

then all guaranteed drops should be removed from the game and everything should be set to <10% or how is this even related to the post or what do you suggest 

[Lvb]

36 minutes ago, grm9 said:

then all guaranteed drops should be removed from the game and everything should be set to <10% or how is this even related to the post or what do you suggest 

It's funny that you bring up this straw-man extreme (I dont think all should be random) because OP is making this exact argument in the reverse for essentially eliminating RNG drops all together. It's okay to have some drops that are not guaranteed. Krampus sack is one of the only items that isnt guaranteed to be acquirable. Its healthy to have a few "chase items" that people hunt for.

36 minutes ago, grm9 said:

mind reading isn't a thing, telling people what you think they actually think that you think they don't know they think sounds stupid

Spare me the lecture. I can infer their attitude based on their lengthy complaints about unfairness and RNG.

[goatt]

15 hours ago, Yuuko said:

The krampus sack is not a reward.  Killing Klaus you are rewarded with presents

That's just false in the context of video game. Context is way more important. Your intepretation is too naive.

 

15 hours ago, Yuuko said:

And yeah - you have unrealistic expectations.  You are not owed a sack, and have no rights to one.

That's also false in the context of math. I've mentioned tangible numbers, such as 1%, 0.1%, 10 times the effort, 2 to 3 days, etc. Those are real numbers that establish game balance versus what happened to me. I've exclude anecdotal stories and opinionated data as much as possible.

Your thematic intepretation is quite ... i don't know how to describe... irrelevant?? in the context of video game. I'm not here to read a fictional story, in which I would be owed a sack, and that's true in the fiction. But I'm here to participate in an action-consequence activity. Lores add more fun. But lores are meaningless if the game itself is unfair or unfun. I'm pointing right at the unfair part of the game, with math.

[Lvb]

9 minutes ago, goatt said:

I'm pointing right at the unfair part of the game, with math.

You might have a flawed understanding of probabilities then. If you flip a coin 4 times and get 4 heads, there is nothing unfair about that and you were not wronged by "math".

You're allowed to feel cheated I suppose, but I dont think that's grounds for change in drop rate. I'm sure thousands of gambling addicts will gladly hear you out and tell you of their unfair experiences as well.

[goatt]

1 hour ago, Lvb said:

You might have a flawed understanding of probabilities then. If you flip a coin 4 times and get 4 heads, there is nothing unfair about that and you were not wronged by "math".

Statistically, it is fair. I agree with you. But in the context of video game, it violates the human perception of fairness, which is very different from true fairness. It's cool to allow players to feel frustrated, but it's not good if it's too frustrated.

You mention of gambling also supports my point. Gambling is addictive because it's tuned artificially to hit a sweet point psychologically. Addictive gambling is never true RNG, it's all about manipulating numbers to manipulate your emotions and impulses.

I suggest the same thing. I hope DST is fun (equivalent to addictive in metaphor) and not pushing gamblers away, per metaphor.

[Antynomity]

On 1/3/2024 at 12:32 AM, Cruvimaster said:

DTS has changed and we cannot stay stuck in the past. We have OP weapons and they can be repaired.

All characters are becoming more broken with the reworks + skill trees. Wickerbotton farm exists.

There is no point in an item being rare to the point that no one (together) can obtain it without farming (Wicker) or mods (loots +).

There also is no reason to have that many inventory slots, learn how to manage your inventory and you won't even need a backpack to begin with, there is absolutely NO NEED to ruin a quirky item for the sake of comfort for players who don't even need it.

I will die on this hill,  I love the krampus sack as it is for reasons already stated before.

[grm9]

12 hours ago, Lvb said:

It's okay to have some drops that are not guaranteed. Krampus sack is one of the only items that isnt guaranteed to be acquirable. Its healthy to have a few "chase items" that people hunt for

for what reason? Does making things not depend on the player at all make the game more fun in your opinion? Imo it'd be better if there was a guarantee to get everything that has a chance, so a krampus sack for 10 klauses killed or 100 krampuses killed etc., no one will reach these numbers before the time they start megabasing so it'll just be a convencience at that point either way if you're worried about piggyback becoming useless 

12 hours ago, Lvb said:

It's funny that you bring up this straw-man extreme

i was telling you guesses about what could your message mean in relation to the topic, to show you that it was either unclear or nonsense, everyone won't feel poor because 10th klaus kill will always result in getting a krampus sack

12 hours ago, Lvb said:

Spare me the lecture. I can infer their attitude based on their lengthy complaints about unfairness and RNG

still, telling people what you think they actually think that you think they don't know they think sounds stupid   

also, write the message fully before sending next time, it's odd when it entirely changes the next time i look at the thread to see the new messages 

[Frosty_Mentos]

I feel like we need a krampus sack substitute instead of needing to kill tons of krampi for it or klaus once a year. Then again it's an old item everyone got strategies already for getting. 

Get a krampii farm at the moon going, it'll take some days but it's so worth to get the meat, feathers and sacks.

[Lvb]

8 hours ago, grm9 said:

also, write the message fully before sending next time, it's odd when it entirely changes the next time i look at the thread to see the new messages 

Weird comment. You clearly just have no point other than to fight with people if you have to resort to chastising others for re-wording their posts with an "edit" button.

Also, lol. Your post was edited self own.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Lvb said:

Weird comment. You clearly just have no point other than to fight with people if you have to resort to chastising others for re-wording their posts with an "edit" button

i'm telling you how to make your messages readable because i wasn't planning to respond to the initial version but then looked at the thread again and realised that the message changed entirely, if you consider this a fight then something is wrong with your understanding of fighting

2 minutes ago, Lvb said:

Your post was edited

i added the text about writing the message fully, i didn't rewrite the text before it and i added it because i forgot to add it initially, different in comparison to entirely rewriting the message        

[Lvb]

4 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I feel like we need a krampus sack substitute

If it had same slots+speed as Krampus sack, then it would need an equally difficult way to get it or it would just be power creep and weaken Klaus' loot table. Big disagree.

It's rare. It's cool. It's best in slot. Everyone wants it. Not everyone needs it.

I curse you with a Piggyback forever.

[arubaro]

Reliable ways of getting the sack is like asking for reliable ways of getting butter. They break the point of the item

People should try to play with other options and improve inventory managment

As solo player you have full access to Chester and hutch and you have access to world settings so you can set winter feast and Klaus on tons

[Falkenpelz]

I feel like the sack not being rare would take a lot of the fun out of it. The general game mechanic is extra space = slower walking speed, e.g. the piggyback. This item negates that rule and therefore acts like a lottery jackpot - you can get it, but you shouldn't expect it.